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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:32:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Lol they said they won't torture me...
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:33:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From what I actually know, I agree with the quote above. Hopefully he can come back after 2016 and get a fair trial. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still feel he made the right call. He's a brave dude despite his appearance, that would take some serious fucking sack to come out with. From what I actually know, I agree with the quote above. Hopefully he can come back after 2016 and get a fair trial. I doubt he'll get a fair trial either way. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:33:35 AM EDT
[#3]
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We have no idea what he did or did not turn over. However, there's only one way they grant him asylum, and that's if he talks. So he can claim he didn't tell them anything all day long, nobody fucking believes him. Traitors don't have any credibility anywhere with anyone except the willfully ignorant. You mean like when Clapper tells things to Congress, under oath? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:35:15 AM EDT
[#4]
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The thing is did he really change anything? Nope. No one will remember him in 2-3 years (except the long memory of government). |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:35:21 AM EDT
[#5]
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Source? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Source? I thought he travelled with them? Maybe he turned them over to the Guardian? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:35:35 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Because the Chinese didn't want them? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:36:32 AM EDT
[#7]
We used to hang traitors...
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:36:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought he travelled with them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Source? I thought he travelled with them? From what I remember, he turned everything over to Glenn Greenwald and one other journalist. He claims he no longer has anything (believe him or not). I've not seen any credible source for the claim that he handed anything over to the Russians. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:36:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought he travelled with them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Source? I thought he travelled with them? Nobody really knows what he did or didn't do, at least not that they're telling, beyond what's been released in the media. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the Chinese didn't want them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Because the Chinese didn't want them? Chinese already have all our info, so nothing to gain |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:37:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That tends to happen when the government keeps everything secret. Which is kind of the whole problem here. What we DO know is that our own government secretly engaged in systematic, suspicionless, mass surveillance of US. We KNOW they are fucking dirtbags of the highest order. Snowden is at worst an unknown. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We (the public) have absolutely no fuckin' idea what else he passed on to the Russians or anyone else - or what he will eventually leak. At this point, if you've already passed judgement on him, you are a fool. That tends to happen when the government keeps everything secret. Which is kind of the whole problem here. What we DO know is that our own government secretly engaged in systematic, suspicionless, mass surveillance of US. We KNOW they are fucking dirtbags of the highest order. Snowden is at worst an unknown. That just follows in the footsteps of the Founding Fathers. 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:37:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.............. Because the Chinese didn't want them? Maybe I am remembering wrong? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:37:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the Chinese didn't want them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Because the Chinese didn't want them? 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:38:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.......... From what I remember, he turned everything over to Glenn Greenwald and one other journalist. He claims he no longer has anything (believe him or not). I've not seen any credible source for the claim that he handed anything over to the Russians. Yeah, maybe I am confusing the Guardian with the Russians. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:38:27 AM EDT
[#15]
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We used to hang traitors... As I've said in other threads, I'd entertain that option as long as we hang ALL of them. Snowden, Clapper, the FISC judges who approved this, anyone involved in directing the creation and operation of the mass surveillance systems. Clean the whole fucking house. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:38:47 AM EDT
[#16]
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Hopefully he can come back after 2016 and get a fair trial. He should wait and see if James "least untruthful" Clapper gets a far trial on a perjury charge. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:38:49 AM EDT
[#17]
When will the government prosecute those at OPM who, through negligence, leaked more classified info on all US Gov employees (and fingerprints) than Snowden could have ever dreamt?
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:39:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt he'll get a fair trial either way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still feel he made the right call. He's a brave dude despite his appearance, that would take some serious fucking sack to come out with. From what I actually know, I agree with the quote above. Hopefully he can come back after 2016 and get a fair trial. I doubt he'll get a fair trial either way. He's not going to get a trial. That's the whole point of the exchange he is having with the American government - they are discussing what crimes he is going to confess to if he comes back and whether that will be sufficient to please the United States. And frankly, given the information he had access to and the people who are "sheltering" him now, a promise of "We won't torture you" with no other guarantees is already a pretty good step up from where he is likely at. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:40:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He should wait and see if James "least untruthful" Clapper gets a far trial on a perjury charge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully he can come back after 2016 and get a fair trial. He should wait and see if James "least untruthful" Clapper gets a far trial on a perjury charge. He should offer to serve the same sentence as Clapper. Seems more than fair to me. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:41:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We used to hang traitors... Now they're just appointed to important jobs. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:42:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we don't REALLY know, but Congress did revoke the authority for at least one of the NSA mass collection programs. Whether they have stopped or will stop is something we don't know, because 'turrism and 'Merica and stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The thing is did he really change anything? Well we don't REALLY know, but Congress did revoke the authority for at least one of the NSA mass collection programs. Whether they have stopped or will stop is something we don't know, because 'turrism and 'Merica and stuff. The .gov does not keep a list of gun owners. 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:42:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTW, for you military guys who agree with him and think what he did was right, why don't you just do the right thing and go in tomorrow and tell your security manager you need to have your clearance revoked. I still haven't made my mind up about Snowden and it hinges on one thing, really. I like to think of myself as a "of the people, for the people" patriot and if I had knowledge about secret, sweeping constitutional abuses I know I'd feel a pressing responsibility to do bring them out in the open. My problem is that I don't know what different, realistic options he had at his disposal to accomplish that. Those of you critical of the man, how would you have gone about it differently? Or would you have just let it go? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:42:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
................. Nobody really knows what he did or didn't do, at least not that they're telling, beyond what's been released in the media. Damn, I could have sworn he gave some sort of "hard" data to the Russians. 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:42:30 AM EDT
[#24]
If my options were life in prison here or constant hounding by Russia's security services I'm pretty sure I'd just hang myself.
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:42:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Chinese already have all our info, so nothing to gain Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why did he turn over his four hard drives to the Russians? Only to gain asylum? Or to give them classified information also? Because the Chinese didn't want them? Chinese already have all our info, so nothing to gain Point of order, the Russians are better at the cyber warfare stuff than the Chinese. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:43:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The .gov does not keep a list of gun owners.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The thing is did he really change anything? Well we don't REALLY know, but Congress did revoke the authority for at least one of the NSA mass collection programs. Whether they have stopped or will stop is something we don't know, because 'turrism and 'Merica and stuff. The .gov does not keep a list of gun owners.
Yup, and there's even a federal law enacted by Congress that bars them from doing so. I'm sure it's scrupulously followed. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:43:46 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing is did he really change anything? Things probably changed internally to better secure the information. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:44:27 AM EDT
[#28]
The Russians won't let him leave. Alive. Until they have everything they need.
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:44:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............... Point of order, the Russians are better at the cyber warfare stuff than the Chinese. I wonder how much of this stuff goes on between China and Russia? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:45:24 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Things probably changed internally to better secure the information. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The thing is did he really change anything? Things probably changed internally to better secure the information. That's true. I bet they're a lot more careful now with their IT contractors. 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:45:58 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still haven't made my mind up about Snowden and it hinges on one thing, really. I like to think of myself as a "of the people, for the people" patriot and if I had knowledge about secret, sweeping constitutional abuses I know I'd feel a pressing responsibility to do bring them out in the open. My problem is that I don't know what different, realistic options he had at his disposal to accomplish that. Those of you critical of the man, how would you have gone about it differently? Or would you have just let it go? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BTW, for you military guys who agree with him and think what he did was right, why don't you just do the right thing and go in tomorrow and tell your security manager you need to have your clearance revoked. I still haven't made my mind up about Snowden and it hinges on one thing, really. I like to think of myself as a "of the people, for the people" patriot and if I had knowledge about secret, sweeping constitutional abuses I know I'd feel a pressing responsibility to do bring them out in the open. My problem is that I don't know what different, realistic options he had at his disposal to accomplish that. Those of you critical of the man, how would you have gone about it differently? Or would you have just let it go? There is actually a really good article where William Bridges (an NSA whistleblower with decades at the agency) and several other NSA whistleblowers discuss that exact thing re: Snowden. If you Google, you can probably find it. It is a bit dated and before the full extent of what he handed over became apparent; but a good read. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:46:21 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We used to hang traitors... Now we let them conduct state business on private email servers and reap the rewards from their activities under the guise of a non-profit. 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:46:57 AM EDT
[#33]
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That's true. I bet they're a lot more careful now with their IT contractors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The thing is did he really change anything? Things probably changed internally to better secure the information. That's true. I bet they're a lot more careful now with their IT contractors. Where do you think the destroyed NICS check information is still kept? FBI? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:48:28 AM EDT
[#34]
mark my words. he will be used in a prisoner exchange when either we capture a russian pilot via rebels in syria or kgb officer gets caught here
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:49:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We need more Snowdens and less government stooges. There I said it. I like whistle blowers that rat on Government shadiness, but I question why Snowden would go to Russia and divulge any of our secrets with them. There are many here who view him as a traitor. Some for being a whistle blower which I think more people should do, or for running to our former Cold War adversary which causes me to suspect them of actually being so. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:51:03 AM EDT
[#36]
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Boo hoo, George Washington was not a true patriot, he accepted aid from the French French=Cold War adversary. I now know never to place any stock in what mdk89 says about anything. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:51:42 AM EDT
[#37]
Josh shitting in another Snowden thread.
I can't help but wonder if Josh is paid by the feds to post. That would be a conspiracy theory, so its not possible. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:52:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Obama probably doesn't want him back because of all of the fanfare involved.
They are afraid he'd be treated as a hero on the internet better to let him stay a man without a country |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A hatred of the fed gov. drove Timothy McVeigh to murder 168 Americans. Does that make him a hero, too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need more Snowdens and less government stooges. There I said it. Agreed, but he also leaked stuff about us spying on foreigners and foreign countries, which is a shitty thing to do, and he probably should be executed for it. Shake his hand, give him a medal, then execute him, I suppose. We (the public) have absolutely no fuckin' idea what else he passed on to the Russians or anyone else - or what he will eventually leak. At this point, if you've already passed judgement on him, you are a fool. We will never know the truth. The only truth I know is fuck the fed gov. Bunch of commie fucktards. A hatred of the fed gov. drove Timothy McVeigh to murder 168 Americans. Does that make him a hero, too? No, but he did not direct his attack against commie fucktards. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:54:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like whistle blowers that rat on Government shadiness, but I question why Snowden would go to Russia and divulge any of our secrets with them. There are many here who view him as a traitor. Some for being a whistle blower which I think more people should do, or for running to our former Cold War adversary which causes me to suspect them of actually being so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need more Snowdens and less government stooges. There I said it. I like whistle blowers that rat on Government shadiness, but I question why Snowden would go to Russia and divulge any of our secrets with them. There are many here who view him as a traitor. Some for being a whistle blower which I think more people should do, or for running to our former Cold War adversary which causes me to suspect them of actually being so. The problem is that the government didn't view its own activities as shady. They had all their paperwork in order from the special secret court and the AG's office. This wasn't a typical "whistleblower" case where there was some obvious fraud going on. As far as Russia goes, the suspicions there are understandable, but if you look at how Snowden's travels unfolded, it doesn't look like he intended to end up there at all. The U.S. government - wittingly or unwittingly - trapped him there by yanking his passport. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still haven't made my mind up about Snowden and it hinges on one thing, really. I like to think of myself as a "of the people, for the people" patriot and if I had knowledge about secret, sweeping constitutional abuses I know I'd feel a pressing responsibility to do bring them out in the open. My problem is that I don't know what different, realistic options he had at his disposal to accomplish that. Those of you critical of the man, how would you have gone about it differently? Or would you have just let it go? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
BTW, for you military guys who agree with him and think what he did was right, why don't you just do the right thing and go in tomorrow and tell your security manager you need to have your clearance revoked. I still haven't made my mind up about Snowden and it hinges on one thing, really. I like to think of myself as a "of the people, for the people" patriot and if I had knowledge about secret, sweeping constitutional abuses I know I'd feel a pressing responsibility to do bring them out in the open. My problem is that I don't know what different, realistic options he had at his disposal to accomplish that. Those of you critical of the man, how would you have gone about it differently? Or would you have just let it go? Let me ask you a question, to help with that decision. If you had found those abuses and needed to do something about it, would you release information on how our allies spied on our enemies, such as the UK spying on Russia? Would you release information on how the NSA spies on other nations, which is exactly what they are supposed to do? |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:56:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder how much of this stuff goes on between China and Russia? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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............... Point of order, the Russians are better at the cyber warfare stuff than the Chinese. I wonder how much of this stuff goes on between China and Russia? Probably not as much as a Cold War vet might think. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:56:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. Fuck him. Enjoy your borscht mother fucker. If he hadn't gone to the Russians then I would say give him 5 years in Club Fed and then forget the whole thing. But if you sell out to the Russians then you can rot in Siberia for all I care. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The thing is did he really change anything? He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. Fuck him. Enjoy your borscht mother fucker. If he hadn't gone to the Russians then I would say give him 5 years in Club Fed and then forget the whole thing. But if you sell out to the Russians then you can rot in Siberia for all I care. Don't forget the Chinese first...although I'm pretty sure they already had what he was offering. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:58:34 AM EDT
[#44]
He may not have even given the Russians anything, either, but he does have a value as a propaganda tool, obviously.
They've been playing the American right with the Snowden bow like their own personal fiddle. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:58:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............... Probably not as much as a Cold War vet might think. Interesting.........I would have assumed ALOT. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:59:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." That proof is not necessary. If he had the information in his control, and he took it to Russia, it has to be assumed that he gave it to them, or that they ended up with it. ALL of that information must then be considered compromised. Just like when someone is taken prisoner in wartime, you HAVE to assume that everything THEY knew, then enemy now knows. If that included pending operations or sensitive capabilities, those ops are cancelled, and the capability if now worthless. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 10:59:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably not as much as a Cold War vet might think. Another Snowden thread shitter. Its like an alert goes out and the same 5 people show up to shit in the thread. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 11:00:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That proof is not necessary. If he had the information in his control, and he took it to Russia, it has to be assumed that he gave it to them, or that they ended up with it. ALL of that information must then be considered compromised. Just like when someone is taken prisoner in wartime, you HAVE to assume that everything THEY knew, then enemy now knows. If that included pending operations or sensitive capabilities, those ops are cancelled, and the capability if now worthless. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." That proof is not necessary. If he had the information in his control, and he took it to Russia, it has to be assumed that he gave it to them, or that they ended up with it. ALL of that information must then be considered compromised. Just like when someone is taken prisoner in wartime, you HAVE to assume that everything THEY knew, then enemy now knows. If that included pending operations or sensitive capabilities, those ops are cancelled, and the capability if now worthless. Kinda like how the Taliban upped their game after Bergdahl went over. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 11:01:38 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That proof is not necessary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He didn't change shit. The only thing he accomplished was giving the Russkies a shitload of information on US intelligence. People who don't like Snowden keep saying this, and yet I have not seen a single credible source for this claim. Unless you're just talking about the general stuff that he gave to EVERYONE by handing it over to the media. But that's not the same thing as "giving it to the Russkies." That proof is not necessary. Not a surprising statement coming from you. By your flawless line of logic, I should be making all sorts of wild-ass assumptions about how the U.S. government uses its enormous theoretical surveillance capabilities against innocent Americans as well, right? I mean, I don't have any proof, but look at the history and circumstances here, right? I'm sure you'll respond with all sorts of bullshit reasons for why "that's not the same." 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 11:02:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now we let them conduct state business on private email servers and reap the rewards from their activities under the guise of a non-profit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We used to hang traitors... Now we let them conduct state business on private email servers and reap the rewards from their activities under the guise of a non-profit. Others take classified information and give it to foreign governments. Mouthbreathers praise them when a subset of that info is used by our enemies as propaganda. |
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