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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:47:31 AM EDT
[#1]
I own a pawnshop, so I deal with the poor almost exclusively.
Guy comes in a lot, clearly homeless. Pawns and picks up his phone repeatedly. Seems nice and polite. Actually asks for work, not a handout. I let him pick up the parking lot for cigarette money etc. He says he will pick up his phone on the 25th because that's when he gets paid. Between military and govt handouts he tells me he gets 1300/mo. He always pawns his phone by the 1st because he's broke. Sympathy gone. Also they all smoke synthetic weed because it isn't picked up by drug screening and they say they are tested for govt handouts. I've always heard about that, but never knew they actually do it. He says they average $100 a day panhandling low to average corners. The guys who get freeway frontage roads can easily double that. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:47:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has it occurred to you that I don't care if they starve? You already said that. We're done in this conversation. Don't ever ask anyone on this site for help on any issue You're a self reliant big boy who can take care of yourself on any issue *click* |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:48:12 AM EDT
[#3]
I don't follow the "WWJD" moral and spiritual guidance rules.
I made up my own: "WWPD." WWPD = "What Would Paladin Do?" I ask myself, "what would Richard Boone, playing the role of Paladin in HAVE GUN - WILL TRAVEL, do in this situation?" He's one of my heroes. After I think on that for a bit, I act accordingly. 
As far as the homeless go, Paladin would probably offer them compassion and then give them advice on how and where to find gainful employment. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:50:19 AM EDT
[#4]
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You already said that. We're done in this conversation. Don't ever ask anyone on this site for help on any issue You're a self reliant big boy who can take care of yourself on any issue *click* Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Has it occurred to you that I don't care if they starve? You already said that. We're done in this conversation. Don't ever ask anyone on this site for help on any issue You're a self reliant big boy who can take care of yourself on any issue *click* I'd never ask for something for nothing anyway, I don't request or accept charity just like I don't offer it. It would be hypocritical. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:51:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Not really religious but I voted yes...but a conditional yes...
There are those that are poor and homeless due to either genuine misfortune or mental/physical handicaps...they deserve our help and compassion. Than there are the ones that are poor and homeless due to laziness/drugs/booze....they deserve to be sent to the moon to mine moon rocks |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:53:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor?
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:54:11 AM EDT
[#7]
NO
I only gave money to one gentleman because he washed my windows (actually did a good job) gave him pay because he did me a service. Everyone else in my AO because they are "homeless" believes they deserves my money. When people stop giving handouts youll see a decrease in homelessness Then again the people that are homeless are typically the ones not asking for money either and I usually see them at the churches or other charities |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:54:40 AM EDT
[#8]
A christian is supposed to be investigative, you give to the widow who has nothing not to the widow who has kids and was left a huge life insurance payout.
my corners are always empty when it rains, apparently their problems aren't that bad. the drug addicts are what you see on the corner. the brain fried from doing drugs are usually the ones sleeping on the bus stops. I give to shelters, they actually help the family's in need. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:55:23 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:58:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "The deserving poor" is a myth. Always has been, and always will be. The exceptions to this rule are the children that have no influence on their situation. You can't control the actions of others, only your own actions. I'm not Christian, but that's sort of where I think Jesus was going with that. This. I worked with the homeless early in my gov civilian career. They are typically winos or junkies. Yes, many are mentally ill, but many got that way either as a result of their lifestyle. As for "the poor", most of them are poor because of bad decision making. Also, frankly, they lack work ethic and the life skills to deal with the daily frustrations of working life. Hair trigger tempers, functional illiteracy and low frustration tolerance are all subject to remedy with a bare modicum of perspective and self discipline. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:59:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is America. A guy got rich selling a rock in a box...called it The Pet Rock. If you can't get your shit together here and make a life...you're beyond fucked. Homelessness is a choice. Don't look at people on the street like they all had their houses foreclosed on last week and they got kicked to the curb. People that hit a bad spot in life and unexpectedly became homeless don't stay homeless for long. Most never hit the street, they turn to family or friends or crash on a couch or turn to welfare. The homeless people you see day in day out are addicts (usually alcohol) or they are crazy. Most don't want to go to shelters because shelters won't let you drink or they think they are above it. Everytime someone gives money to someone at an intersection they are just enabling those people that live like that. You want to help the homeless then donate to a private charity that actually helps them...feeding/housing/treatment. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:59:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compassion? Absolutely. There are many other was to show compassion, than just material handouts. I don't generally give to beggars, but I have. I do smile and speak to them like a human being. Unless they are a fuckhead or aggressive. What would Jesus do? Well, you'd have to ask him. Agree. Compassion is a virtue. Misplaced compassion is a pernicious character flaw. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:03:35 AM EDT
[#13]
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If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. Now, yes, the guys on the street corners with their "need help blah blah God Bless" signs are running a scam years ago working in MPLS, was removing a couple homeless drunks from a business downtown. one took a swing at me while the other pulled an 8 inch hunting knife. after some diehard-esk action that resulted in knife boy flying through a plate glass window I searched their bags and amongst the meth, prescription pills and empty vodka bottles was a cardboard sign that read "homeless, please help, god bless" I dont have any compassion for shit heads. but being poor doesn't make you a shit head |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:05:51 AM EDT
[#14]
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I don't care what their options are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. Now, yes, the guys on the street corners with their "need help blah blah God Bless" signs are running a scam Or people can earn their way, or starve. That's not an option for some people If you don't realize that you don't get out enough. I don't care what their options are. yes, your lack of human decency has been apparent for some time |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:06:44 AM EDT
[#15]
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"He who will not work shall not eat." "Take care of the widows and orphans." One group is lazy. One group, through no fault of their own, needs help. Jesus never meant for us to turn off our common senseometer when helping people. I work with a girl that subscribes to this thought. Says people like the first baby daddy doesn't deserve aid because he turned to drugs and ended up in prison. But SHE is an innocent and deserving, through no fault of her own, is a poor single mother. Fast forward to baby daddy of kid number 2, then went to jail, the became daddy to baby number 3 as soon as he got out of jail.. before going back to jail shortly there after. Someone told her my brother was cute and she wanted to know about him. One of the descriptors I gave was that he has a good job. "I don't care about money, I just like having fun." Since all the baby daddy's are in jail, she told me about some of the guys she's sleeping with. She was really turned off when the 36yo motorcycle "club" guy mentioned how broke he was. If one would like, I can get her address so they can send this poor, deserving single mother some money. She probably needs some money as she has used all of her vacation time and for whatever reason has taken off work for about a month. Poor thing. (upside: young, 28ish, natural light blond, beautiful blue eyes, big gigantic boobs. downside: kids have behavioral problems for some reason, broke as a joke, can't catch a break?) |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:07:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. Now, yes, the guys on the street corners with their "need help blah blah God Bless" signs are running a scam My pocket is picked to provide funds for the government programs. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:09:50 AM EDT
[#17]
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yes, your lack of human decency has been apparent for some time Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. Now, yes, the guys on the street corners with their "need help blah blah God Bless" signs are running a scam Or people can earn their way, or starve. That's not an option for some people If you don't realize that you don't get out enough. I don't care what their options are. yes, your lack of human decency has been apparent for some time I reject your definition of decency and replace it with my own. Now don't you have some civil rights to go violate? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:10:01 AM EDT
[#18]
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They're incapable of starving? That's a neat trick. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:13:38 AM EDT
[#19]
There is a bum who always pan handles outside the doors of the local ABC store. I sure as hell don't give that bum any money. I did once give ten bucks to a Pima bum in Tempe. He said, "Sir, I'm homeless and I'm out of whiskey. Can you spare some change?" I said, "Sure, you're the most honest pan handler I've ever met."
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:17:54 AM EDT
[#20]
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Because its one or the other, or a combination. "Neither" is not an option. it's like the parents who argue against sex ed in schools saying its the parents responsibility, then wont give their kids any information. No one said that you personally have to do anything with your own money, but if private charity is the expected form of aid, the cash to run those programs has to come from somewhere Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. If we are talking about my money, why can't I? Because its one or the other, or a combination. "Neither" is not an option. it's like the parents who argue against sex ed in schools saying its the parents responsibility, then wont give their kids any information. No one said that you personally have to do anything with your own money, but if private charity is the expected form of aid, the cash to run those programs has to come from somewhere Of course "neither" is an option. A socialist, like you are, presents this as a false choice. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:20:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Thore people who appear to be fit to work but are panhandling may actually be nuts and cannot hold even the most menial of jobs. And they probably have the attitude that the only job they are qualified for is CEO. So ought to be in mental institutions or at least in some program with their families assistance. But thank the lefties and progressive for taking that solution away from us. They thought it bette to dump them on the streets.
The junkies will take you help, if its money or something the can turn into cash so they can get their next fix. So the "help" some people would give them is actually continuing to hurt them, and potentially innocent people,too. I'd say you will know when the situation presents itself as to who does need a lift up. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:20:26 AM EDT
[#22]
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I reject your definition of decency and replace it with my own. Now don't you have some civil rights to go violate? not surprised. dont you have a manifesto to write? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:22:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a bum who always pan handles outside the doors of the local ABC store. I sure as hell don't give that bum any money. I did once give ten bucks to a Pima bum in Tempe. He said, "Sir, I'm homeless and I'm out of whiskey. Can you spare some change?" I said, "Sure, you're the most honest pan handler I've ever met." 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:25:39 AM EDT
[#24]
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I have worked with and around homeless folks over the last 25 years. My observation is that most of them fit into one of three categories: 1. drug or alcohol addicted. 2. mentally ill. 3. Folks who could make it in life without difficulty but are unwilling to take on responsibility. Often these categories overlap. I have a lot of empathy for the mentally ill who are homeless. I have less empathy for those who are drug and alcohol addicted, and I have essentially none for those who are homeless by choice. If you want to help someone, don't give them money. Spend some time, find out Who they are and which category they fall into, and at best buy them some food, or a blanket, sleeping bag or tarp, or buy them gas or give them a job. One of the problems with blanket government programs is that no one is invested enough to try to figure out who the person is and whether they're just trying to work the system or it is really a person who has need. This is why individuals who actually had to work for their money and care about where it goes are much more cautious in terms of how it is spent on the homeless. It is much easier to throw money at the problem, especially when it's not your money. I work with folks who struggle with addiction through my church. One of them is on again off again guy in his mid 50s who is intermittently homeless. He actually has money from the state that comes each month to pay for housing, I believe it is an $800 a month housing allowance. He also is eligible for discount housing due to "disabilities". It depends how together he has himself whether he actually spends the money housing or spends it on drugs. I have in the past gone to Walmart with him and brought him food when he needed it. I bought him a tarp and a sleeping bag in the past. However, he knows I'm not going to get him a hotel room and he has never asked. He has to at some point get tired of the life that he's living and take advantage of the opportunities that have been offered to him. This is not something I can do for him. It is something that enabling him will likely make less likely to happen in my opinion. Loving him in this case means not making his life easier but allowing it to be hard when he chooses drugs over being sober. I don't think that Jesus would do anything different. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile +1 Same here. Lather, rinse, repeat. Mentally ill is for life and the ones that can be helped with medication are incapable of taking it as prescribed for any length of time. As you know, there is also a strong overlap between the mentally ill and drug/alcohol abuse as the mentally ill self-medicate. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:31:41 AM EDT
[#25]
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There needs to be some form of aid, either public or private, for those people in legitimate need If you are going to open your doors and let them in, I'm fine with that, otherwise let's agree to disagree. I am genuinely interested in how you would determine between those in legitimate need verse those who are capable, yet sit idle with a sad face and an outstretched hand. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:31:57 AM EDT
[#26]
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Show me where I've ever said that or shut up Quote HistoryQuoted:
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To people like comrade TC, there is no such thing as "your money". All money belongs to the state and it's only by the state's grace that you are allowed to keep some of it. Show me where I've ever said that or shut up Please, spare us.  Socialism is how you roll. You love the power of the state and it permeates your posts on this site. I've only been here since 2003 so maybe you were different before then.Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:38:30 AM EDT
[#27]
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Has it occurred to you that I don't care if they starve? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're incapable of starving? That's a neat trick. They're incapable of working The mentally retarded guy I dealt with who is trapped for life inside his body while he sits there flailing around wildly clapping his hands in glee like a 1 year old will never be able to work. The elderly people in some of the complexes I deal with are beyond an age where they can still work And there are hundreds and thousands of these sorts of people in society When you're a fit 20 or 30 something who's mad at life and the Boomers you think have ruined it all for your generation its EASY to say that people should "work or starve". Real easy to proudly proclaim it on an anonymous internet forum. Whole different thing to deal with these issues in real life. I'd suggest that maybe you go volunteer some time at one of the local non-profits and get an idea of the segment of society you're willing to throw under the bus. And you think *I* am the problem in this conversation? Get real. Has it occurred to you that I don't care if they starve? That's going in my collection of quotes. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:41:32 AM EDT
[#28]
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"He who will not work shall not eat." "Take care of the widows and orphans." One group is lazy. One group, through no fault of their own, needs help. Jesus never meant for us to turn off our common senseometer when helping people. Well said. And well-intended people that give money to the lazy are only thwarting God's best plan. God said that if they get hungry, the lazy will go to work, but you are keeping that from happening by giving them money. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:46:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Compassion, usually. Money, rarely. They travelled to place themselves strategically where the right demo can look upon them and give them more money for less time than the guy toiling in the kitchens makes. So they can then buy drugs. Often as not. If you give money to "the homeless", you are enabling drug additiction.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:50:16 AM EDT
[#30]
I would say that some do.
My BIL is homeless by choice. Fuck him. I met one homeless guy in Chicago that I felt was deserving of some help. He had one hand, missing most of his teeth on one side and had an eye that was cloudy and bulging out of his head. I could see why that guy couldn't find work to stay financially viable. But I also see plenty of able bodied, working age men and women begging. Fuck them too. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:56:18 AM EDT
[#31]
lol bums
90% of the bums in this city are professional panhandlers, they beg for a living some of them even have cars, and they drive to the street corner to work think about that the next time you feel sorry for them |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:57:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how did the poor and indignant get that way in Jesus' time? People are still the same and always will be. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:00:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
after some diehard-esk action that resulted in knife boy flying through a plate glass window I searched their bags and amongst the meth, prescription pills and empty vodka bottles was a cardboard sign that read "homeless, please help, god bless" I dont have any compassion for shit heads. but being poor doesn't make you a shit head Quote HistoryQuoted:
after some diehard-esk action that resulted in knife boy flying through a plate glass window I searched their bags and amongst the meth, prescription pills and empty vodka bottles was a cardboard sign that read "homeless, please help, god bless" I dont have any compassion for shit heads. but being poor doesn't make you a shit head For a while we had a collection of those signs in our office lining the walls The God Bless folks are the last ones I'd help The local liberal weekly of all people did a cover story on them last year because our area has been flooded with them The God Blessers pretty much all admitted they were on the corner to get booze or drug money One guy admitted he only did it for money to feed his dog Quoted:
Of course "neither" is an option. A socialist, like you are, presents this as a false choice. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No, its not Even back in the colonial era long before big government programs, society opted to care for the less fortunate Up til early in the last century every county in my state maintained a poor house http://www.poorhousestory.com/new_york_poorhouses.htm The ruins of ours still stands Of course the residents there were expected to work for their keep, something I have no issue with The local juvenile delinquent facility had its own jails, courts and currency before the state took the place over. It was truly a place to reform wayward youth. Going back in records of my agency a decade ago when we were digitizing old records, I found that my predecessors were allowed to arrest you if you could produce no cash on your person when asked. Based on the records it was a charge that was fairly often employed. The idea stated in this thread that if you take away aid that the homeless will no longer be homeless is a myth. All anyone has to do is look at history Even the most modest of towns a century ago had shantytowns in some undesirable corner of the village/ town I don't agree with the section 8 palaces we are building them now either. Oh, and a big *click* to you as well Time to start adding to the list again. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:03:32 AM EDT
[#34]
I know someone who's schizophrenic and who's family has reached the end of their collective rope with his behavior. Odds are pretty good that he'll end up homeless if they stop supporting him he has no one else and can't keep a job. The sad thing is that the family is taxed enough to pay for the free shit army that were it not they case they could afford to buy him a place and hire someone to check up on him / keep him on track with his meds, etc.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Show me someone in genuine need and I will help. I see able bodied men begging for money, fat people driving to the food pantry, kids so fat they are pre-diabetic at the free lunch counters, etc.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:26:18 AM EDT
[#36]
I prefer to deal with the people that truly want to improve their lives. These people go through programs and obviously are taking the time to get themselves out of their rut. I work with one of those organizations through my employer and the people there don't have time for bullshit. They want back into real life and they are willing to work at it. Some of the people that I work with are vets and I'm happy to help them get back into it.
Now, quite frankly I'm tired of being hassled by aggressive panhandlers when walking around downtown. I'm tired of their attempts at guilt trips and I'm tired of them insinuating that I owe them something. I'm tired of their whining and their bad attitudes. I don't want to land into the realm of violating the COC but my patience for these people is very thin. As far as the comments go for the mentally retarded folks.. they need to re-establish private mental hospitals for these people. Scoop them back up and put them back under care. I don't mind paying into private charity for that at all. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:32:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a while we had a collection of those signs in our office lining the walls The God Bless folks are the last ones I'd help The local liberal weekly of all people did a cover story on them last year because our area has been flooded with them The God Blessers pretty much all admitted they were on the corner to get booze or drug money One guy admitted he only did it for money to feed his dog No, its not Even back in the colonial era long before big government programs, society opted to care for the less fortunate Up til early in the last century every county in my state maintained a poor house http://www.poorhousestory.com/new_york_poorhouses.htm The ruins of ours still stands Of course the residents there were expected to work for their keep, something I have no issue with The local juvenile delinquent facility had its own jails, courts and currency before the state took the place over. It was truly a place to reform wayward youth. Going back in records of my agency a decade ago when we were digitizing old records, I found that my predecessors were allowed to arrest you if you could produce no cash on your person when asked. Based on the records it was a charge that was fairly often employed. The idea stated in this thread that if you take away aid that the homeless will no longer be homeless is a myth. All anyone has to do is look at history Even the most modest of towns a century ago had shantytowns in some undesirable corner of the village/ town I don't agree with the section 8 palaces we are building them now either. Oh, and a big *click* to you as well Time to start adding to the list again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: after some diehard-esk action that resulted in knife boy flying through a plate glass window I searched their bags and amongst the meth, prescription pills and empty vodka bottles was a cardboard sign that read "homeless, please help, god bless" I dont have any compassion for shit heads. but being poor doesn't make you a shit head For a while we had a collection of those signs in our office lining the walls The God Bless folks are the last ones I'd help The local liberal weekly of all people did a cover story on them last year because our area has been flooded with them The God Blessers pretty much all admitted they were on the corner to get booze or drug money One guy admitted he only did it for money to feed his dog Quoted: Of course "neither" is an option. A socialist, like you are, presents this as a false choice. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No, its not Even back in the colonial era long before big government programs, society opted to care for the less fortunate Up til early in the last century every county in my state maintained a poor house http://www.poorhousestory.com/new_york_poorhouses.htm The ruins of ours still stands Of course the residents there were expected to work for their keep, something I have no issue with The local juvenile delinquent facility had its own jails, courts and currency before the state took the place over. It was truly a place to reform wayward youth. Going back in records of my agency a decade ago when we were digitizing old records, I found that my predecessors were allowed to arrest you if you could produce no cash on your person when asked. Based on the records it was a charge that was fairly often employed. The idea stated in this thread that if you take away aid that the homeless will no longer be homeless is a myth. All anyone has to do is look at history Even the most modest of towns a century ago had shantytowns in some undesirable corner of the village/ town I don't agree with the section 8 palaces we are building them now either. Oh, and a big *click* to you as well Time to start adding to the list again. All I would say is this, you lose me at "less fortunate". Let's just call them poor. "fortunate" makes it sound like it's completely luck of the draw; it isn't. If we can talk the issue without loaded vocabulary, I'll have the talk. I won't have the talk when a precondition is accepting the politically loaded vocabulary and the implications it presents, specifically, me conceding the moral high ground before the conversation commences. less fortunate = somebody's privileged, etc. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:37:54 AM EDT
[#38]
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That's not an option for some people If you don't realize that you don't get out enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the argument against government programs is that private charity can handle the need, then there has to be private charity You can't argue against both. Now, yes, the guys on the street corners with their "need help blah blah God Bless" signs are running a scam Or people can earn their way, or starve. That's not an option for some people If you don't realize that you don't get out enough. Or he is not a fucking communist. Your entire argument is that those of us that produce, need to give some of what we produce at gunpoint to others, or people like you will shoot us in the face. Pretty sure we fought a war about that shit, your side lost 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:42:23 AM EDT
[#39]
Be charitable, it is pretty much a pillar of any religion.
I'd be interested in knowing why people that can get jobs and are fit to work do not get jobs. If it is a personal choice, I would not give them any money. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:42:46 AM EDT
[#40]
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not surprised. dont you have a manifesto to write? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I reject your definition of decency and replace it with my own. Now don't you have some civil rights to go violate? not surprised. dont you have a manifesto to write? He has a manifesto to write because he believes he should not be compelled at gunpoint to support others with his labor? I would really like to know how much some of the mutherfuckers here that scream for government handouts for the ' poor ' actually give to charity 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:43:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All I would say is this, you lose me at "less fortunate". Let's just call them poor. "fortunate" makes it sound like it's completely luck of the draw; it isn't. If we can talk the issue without loaded vocabulary, I'll have the talk. I won't have the talk when a precondition is accepting the politically loaded vocabulary and the implications it presents, specifically, me conceding the moral high ground before the conversation commences. less fortunate = somebody's privileged, etc. Look at the era I was referring to They didn't use the term less fortunate ( I think ) I was using it as a catch all phrase for the people chose to take care of through poor houses, charity, etc I'm Ok with using another phrase but I don't think poor is the right term to use for that era There might have been a certain amount of indigence they allowed for in widows and kids but as I pointed out, they expected able-bodied people to work for the help they received But lets also be honest. It was a different era and a different population. The frontier weeded out anyone who couldn't hack life for any number of reasons. You grew up and died within 20 miles of where you were born. If people exercised charity its because they had a good idea of who was in legitimate need of it because they'd grown up around the same small community and its same members It's a much different world and nation today. A good chunk of you probably don't live anywhere near where you were born, for starters. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:44:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or he is not a fucking communist. Your entire argument is that those of us that produce, need to give some of what we produce at gunpoint to others, or people like you will shoot us in the face. Pretty sure we fought a war about that shit, your side lost Show me where I said that or you can go on ignore as he did I'm tired of all you guys projecting what you THINK I say onto me. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:49:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the era I was referring to They didn't use the term less fortunate ( I think ) I was using it as a catch all phrase for the people chose to take care of through poor houses, charity, etc I'm Ok with using another phrase but I don't think poor is the right term to use for that era There might have been a certain amount of indigence they allowed for in widows and kids but as I pointed out, they expected able-bodied people to work for the help they received But lets also be honest. It was a different era and a different population. The frontier weeded out anyone who couldn't hack life for any number of reasons. You grew up and died within 20 miles of where you were born. If people exercised charity its because they had a good idea of who was in legitimate need of it because they'd grown up around the same small community and its same members It's a much different world and nation today. A good chink of you probably don't live anywhere near where you were born, for starters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All I would say is this, you lose me at "less fortunate". Let's just call them poor. "fortunate" makes it sound like it's completely luck of the draw; it isn't. If we can talk the issue without loaded vocabulary, I'll have the talk. I won't have the talk when a precondition is accepting the politically loaded vocabulary and the implications it presents, specifically, me conceding the moral high ground before the conversation commences. less fortunate = somebody's privileged, etc. Look at the era I was referring to They didn't use the term less fortunate ( I think ) I was using it as a catch all phrase for the people chose to take care of through poor houses, charity, etc I'm Ok with using another phrase but I don't think poor is the right term to use for that era There might have been a certain amount of indigence they allowed for in widows and kids but as I pointed out, they expected able-bodied people to work for the help they received But lets also be honest. It was a different era and a different population. The frontier weeded out anyone who couldn't hack life for any number of reasons. You grew up and died within 20 miles of where you were born. If people exercised charity its because they had a good idea of who was in legitimate need of it because they'd grown up around the same small community and its same members It's a much different world and nation today. A good chink of you probably don't live anywhere near where you were born, for starters. I think you ment chunk, and I would be one of them. I moved 100 miles away from where I grew up for a JOB 22 years ago, and as I get older the less I give a shit about the ' poor ' in this country. I used to contribute a lot of money every week to my local food bank as growing up I knew what it was to go hungry. But now the ' poor ' live much better than I do because of people like you. You vote for people that will shoot me in the face if I dont hand over enough of what I earn through my labor every two weeks to the ' poor '. Fuck the ' poor '. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:51:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Show me where I said that or you can go on ignore as he did I'm tired of all you guys projecting what you THINK I say onto me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or he is not a fucking communist. Your entire argument is that those of us that produce, need to give some of what we produce at gunpoint to others, or people like you will shoot us in the face. Pretty sure we fought a war about that shit, your side lost Show me where I said that or you can go on ignore as he did I'm tired of all you guys projecting what you THINK I say onto me. Put me on ignore. Please. You owe it to me. I am too ' poor ' to work for it. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:52:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you ment chunk, and I would be one of them. I moved 100 miles away from where I grew up for a JOB 22 years ago, and as I get older the less I give a shit about the ' poor ' in this country. I used to contribute a lot of money every week to my local food bank as growing up I knew what it was to go hungry. But now the ' poor ' live much better than I do because of people like you. You vote for people that will shoot me in the face if I dont hand over enough of what I earn through my labor every two weeks to the ' poor '. Fuck the ' poor '. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you ment chunk, and I would be one of them. I moved 100 miles away from where I grew up for a JOB 22 years ago, and as I get older the less I give a shit about the ' poor ' in this country. I used to contribute a lot of money every week to my local food bank as growing up I knew what it was to go hungry. But now the ' poor ' live much better than I do because of people like you. You vote for people that will shoot me in the face if I dont hand over enough of what I earn through my labor every two weeks to the ' poor '. Fuck the ' poor '. Typo fixed Now show me where anything I've said supports your claim. What "people" am I voting for that would do as you claim. Back up your statement or apologize and retract the comment Quoted:
Put me on ignore. Please. You owe it to me. I am too ' poor ' to work for it. Granted |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoting a friend: "You should always leave a person enough room to turn around." I think that wise, though I guess it means different things to different people.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 11:13:56 AM EDT
[#47]
The bible also says that if a man won't work, he shouldn't eat. So, I think it has a lot to do with individual situations. In general though, I believe that everyone deserves some amout of compassion.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 11:14:51 AM EDT
[#48]
I could reduced the violent and property crime rate here to almost nothing simply by tearing down the city homeless shelter.
EMS would be giddy, they respond there a dozen times a day. I've met ONE homeless person that deserved help, her name was Barbara and her family threw her out when she was 73 and just starting into Alzheimer's. I used to buy her lunch regularly and made it a point to make sure the other bums knew she was protected. She died about three years after I first met her. The best use for the chronic homeless is garden mulch. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#49]
If they aren't scammers I feel bad for them.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 11:22:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Yesterday the community food pantry was in front of a local grocery store asking for donations of food, not money. They even handed out a small card with the foods they needed. I bought twelve cans of generic vegetables, a 5lb bag of rice and a 5lb bag of beans. Probably $10 in total. Oddly enough is also the same kind of food that the prepper weirdos advocate. My wife works with poor kids. Like truly poor. They send home food every Friday so the kids will have something to eat over the weekend. It's difficult to feel sorry for adults who make bad decisions but the kids are just victims of circumstances beyond their control.
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