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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:21:20 AM EDT
[#1]
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I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. The reliability of a single shot, break-open shotgun is the only thing I carry for the identical reason. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:25:35 AM EDT
[#2]
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I start looking to the writers background, and what makes them knowledgeable on the subject matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any time I read an article that uses 'You see, ....', I feel like the writer is one step above illiterate. I'm sure it's not true. It's just a weird reaction on my part. I start looking to the writers background, and what makes them knowledgeable on the subject matter. Think you can make me some 8mm Mauser that functions like Winchester PDX1s? 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:27:09 AM EDT
[#3]
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In general, I think the "new guys" who come up with some "new" bullet are selling gimmicks. The big companies like Barnes, Hornaday, Speer, Sierra etc, spend a lot of time and R&D making bullets that do what they say they are going to do. They back this up with actual science and tests for the most part. Though they don't usually claim something new and magical, just updates that give better performance. I am thinking of like Gold Dots, Barnes-X, the new OTM stuff, etc. Now some of that is repackaged and new marketing, trying to sell bullets, but in general they at least perform as they say they will. Notable exceptions being the G2 Gold Dot and the Remington Black Belt mentioned in the article. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:48:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:57:35 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do That creates a singularity. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 1:00:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do It will kill you if it hits your mom! |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 3:14:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Notable exceptions being the G2 Gold Dot and the Remington Black Belt mentioned in the article. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In general, I think the "new guys" who come up with some "new" bullet are selling gimmicks. The big companies like Barnes, Hornaday, Speer, Sierra etc, spend a lot of time and R&D making bullets that do what they say they are going to do. They back this up with actual science and tests for the most part. Though they don't usually claim something new and magical, just updates that give better performance. I am thinking of like Gold Dots, Barnes-X, the new OTM stuff, etc. Now some of that is repackaged and new marketing, trying to sell bullets, but in general they at least perform as they say they will. Notable exceptions being the G2 Gold Dot and the Remington Black Belt mentioned in the article. What's wrong with the G2 Gold Dot? It was made for service pistols and the test I saw showed they worked fine for them. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 4:15:45 AM EDT
[#8]
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What's wrong with the G2 Gold Dot? It was made for service pistols and the test I saw showed they worked fine for them. maybe a reference to this? 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 4:24:21 AM EDT
[#9]
I just use what the fuzz uses
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:13:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Lol
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:18:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do They can't identify the body, isn't enough left. That is why assassins use it (and ninjas too). |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:02:18 AM EDT
[#12]
I fill my hollow points with pee and poop.
 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:11:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. What's scary is I can't tell if you're serious, or just trolling. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:13:01 AM EDT
[#14]
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I agree that shit placement is obviously the most important factor, followed very closely by having enough penetration to reach vital organs. I did not mean to imply that ammo makers have any legal liability, but I do believe it is unethical to sell a product that they know doesn't perform the way they claim, wouldn't be useful if it did, and has less chance of stopping a bad guy than more traditional ammo. Some are not as bad as others, though. That Remington Black Belt is merely dumb and not great. The DRT or other shallowly penetrating gimmick is actively dangerous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The counter the article, often times far too much significance is placed upon ammo selection as if that is the only factor that matters in a self defense encounter. The article seems to suggest the ammo companies have some kind of liability for making a product that may not work as well as the best in the market. I disagree with that assertion; people can make their own choices for what ammo they choose to stake their lives on. In reality a lot of this is just splitting hairs, as just by having a gun and sending rounds at an attacker is enough to stop the vast majority of encounters; the whole "thug hopped up on PCP that needs 20 rounds to bring down" is so incredibly rare as to be almost irrelevant. I agree that shit placement is obviously the most important factor, followed very closely by having enough penetration to reach vital organs. I did not mean to imply that ammo makers have any legal liability, but I do believe it is unethical to sell a product that they know doesn't perform the way they claim, wouldn't be useful if it did, and has less chance of stopping a bad guy than more traditional ammo. Some are not as bad as others, though. That Remington Black Belt is merely dumb and not great. The DRT or other shallowly penetrating gimmick is actively dangerous. Can't disagree about the importance of shit placement. That can get messy. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:31:23 AM EDT
[#15]
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I only carry hollowpoints filed with bees and gluten. you need to add some GMO to it to really kill hippies. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:35:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Or these... Not sure if covered in article, haven't read it yet.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:41:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's scary is I can't tell if you're serious, or just trolling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. What's scary is I can't tell if you're serious, or just trolling. Must be a 1911 guy. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:48:48 AM EDT
[#18]
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They can't identify the body, isn't enough left. That is why assassins use it (and ninjas too). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do They can't identify the body, isn't enough left. That is why assassins use it (and ninjas too). There was an article in Guns &Ammo that mentioned that. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:02:10 AM EDT
[#19]
Good article. Kinda wordy IMO, but it's hard to write about ballistics without running into that.
Also, "Dirty Little Secret" title - you used that on snubs too. Or is this a series and I didn't pick up on it? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:14:47 AM EDT
[#20]
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Transfats also. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I only carry hollowpoints filed with bees and gluten. LoL. Do you put peanut dust in them as well??!!?? Transfats also. I've done all of the above AND lubed them with bacon grease. Just in case I bump into any radical islamists |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:18:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the G2 Gold Dot? It was made for service pistols and the test I saw showed they worked fine for them. maybe a reference to this?  https://youtu.be/CeVtwmHeRZQDid I read that right? There was like 100 fps difference in velocity between the 3 inch barrel and the 6 inch barrel??? And that is what caused the 6 inch fired bullets to expand? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:21:24 AM EDT
[#22]
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I've done all of the above AND lubed them with bacon grease. Just in case I bump into any radical islamists Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I only carry hollowpoints filed with bees and gluten. LoL. Do you put peanut dust in them as well??!!?? Transfats also. I've done all of the above AND lubed them with bacon grease. Just in case I bump into any radical islamists Do you find that accuracy is maintained? I mean, we can't fault your reasoning but at what point does it become a detriment to accuracy? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:24:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did I read that right? There was like 100 fps difference in velocity between the 3 inch barrel and the 6 inch barrel??? And that is what caused the 6 inch fired bullets to expand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's wrong with the G2 Gold Dot? It was made for service pistols and the test I saw showed they worked fine for them. maybe a reference to this? https://youtu.be/CeVtwmHeRZQDid I read that right? There was like 100 fps difference in velocity between the 3 inch barrel and the 6 inch barrel??? And that is what caused the 6 inch fired bullets to expand? Yep, not that surprising - http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:29:53 AM EDT
[#24]
All the original versions of the 357 125 grain JHP never passed the FBI standards yet worked just fine.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:29:54 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. For defensive purposes you want to alternate frangible and wadcutter in your mags, with a tracer at the end so you can tell when the mag is empty. Yahoo answers is a great source for helpful information like this. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:31:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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PLACEMENT... there are no magic bullets! http://www.dowguru.com/images/CE399Good.jpg Um. thats the one from connoly's leg or JFK's back which wasn't lethal this is some of the fragments from the head shot. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:35:31 AM EDT
[#27]
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Um. thats the one from connoly's leg or JFK's back which wasn't lethal this is some of the fragments from the head shot. http://media.philly.com/images/jfk-bullet-fragments-400.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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PLACEMENT... there are no magic bullets! http://www.dowguru.com/images/CE399Good.jpg Um. thats the one from connoly's leg or JFK's back which wasn't lethal this is some of the fragments from the head shot. http://media.philly.com/images/jfk-bullet-fragments-400.jpg That's what THEY want you to believe.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:36:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's just incredibly ignorant, or trolling. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. That's just incredibly ignorant, or trolling. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No, he is probably just a 1911 guy |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:38:21 AM EDT
[#29]
They need to bring in some artillery types and come up with a miniaturized RAP round for firearms. Gyrojet was close, but did not cut the muster.
I need a rifle that can shoot 35,000 meters. I realize I can't see 35,000 meters away, but that's irrelevant. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:44:24 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:51:04 AM EDT
[#31]
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What we really need is safer bullets and safer guns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GircMluiO94 What we really need is a manufacturer who says "We're going to stop with the ridiculous r&d, expensive marketing of same, and start producing all the .22lr you can eat!" |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:57:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagining that could kill you Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do a 155HE round will kill you just from the screeching whistle comming into your basement,,,,,,, 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:58:36 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, he is probably just a 1911 guy Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. That's just incredibly ignorant, or trolling. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No, he is probably just a 1911 guy Meh. I carry 165 grain JHPs in my 3.5 inch 1911. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:03:08 AM EDT
[#34]
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I had a customer bring in a round of 9mm RIP ammo for the ammo collection I have at the shop. All the sharp edges and cut outs reminded me of those Chinese made "fantasy swords" that are made to impress teenage boys. All flash and show and as worthless as a two week old dead rat. With the right rat, I could kill Europe.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:08:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you need to add some GMO to it to really kill hippies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I only carry hollowpoints filed with bees and gluten. you need to add some GMO to it to really kill hippies. All my bullets have highly toxic lead in them. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:08:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's just incredibly ignorant, or trolling. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles. That's just incredibly ignorant, or trolling. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile He must be from 'Jersey Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:09:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the right rat, I could kill Europe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I had a customer bring in a round of 9mm RIP ammo for the ammo collection I have at the shop. All the sharp edges and cut outs reminded me of those Chinese made "fantasy swords" that are made to impress teenage boys. All flash and show and as worthless as a two week old dead rat. With the right rat, I could kill Europe. Well played. 500 ARF points to you |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:10:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to bring in some artillery types and come up with a miniaturized RAP round for firearms. Gyrojet was close, but did not cut the muster. I need a rifle that can shoot 35,000 meters. I realize I can't see 35,000 meters away, but that's irrelevant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket-assisted_projectile quadrotor drone with laser designator. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:15:54 AM EDT
[#39]
I am still waiting for someone start putting magnets in bullets, that will be a game changer.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:18:27 AM EDT
[#40]
.45 ACP.......its been killing enemies of our nation since 1911. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:30:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Rip G2 is all I use. It's got pointy things on it and stuff.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:36:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Clint Smith has a saying---"You know why they keep making new pistol bullets all the time?" "None of them work all that well".
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:41:05 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 9:42:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am still waiting for someone start putting magnets in bullets, that will be a game changer. Kinky. How will that work? |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:11:15 AM EDT
[#45]
Drawing a 10MM is like taking the lid off of the arc of the covenant.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:25:47 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryWe have a local pistol instructor that pushes that stuff hard in his CHL classes. He is also a ninja instructor. At the local mall. But he has a hot girlfriend and a 5 star rating on google.  |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:35:43 AM EDT
[#47]
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http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/445/445248.jpg .45 ACP.......its been killing enemies of our nation since 1911. Is that currently for sale at MidwayUSA's website? I tried doing a search there and I found two things of Winchester "military service" anmunition. They looked like new manufacture though. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:38:37 AM EDT
[#48]
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I only carry hollowpoints filed with bees and gluten. Some peanut-butter and latex would round out the mix quite nicely. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:39:25 AM EDT
[#49]
"Old school" 40 and 45 hydra-shok may not perform as perfectly as newer HST, but they are still good.
9mm HST may perform about as good as the older 40 & 45 designs. 9mm HST doesn't equal 40 & 45 HST. The first sentence is the basic idea. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:45:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PLACEMENT... there are no magic bullets! wrong. google wins again . 
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