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Posted: 10/3/2015 10:32:10 PM EDT
An article about gimmick ammo I wrote. The blog is not mine, but the article is. As always, I'd like to hear your opinions.
Every year we see several new “advances” in ammunition. These new products are invariably hailed by their makers as revolutionary. Sometimes the whole company is new. They promise something with ammunition that has never been done but they rarely deliver. You see, ammunition is a mature field. There are occasionally incremental advances in metallurgy or propellants, like the use of bonded bullets and low flash powders that began more than a quarter century ago, but more often, these “advances” provide no actual performance advantage.
Often, the claimed advance amounts to absolute snake oil such as the ARX Inceptor. The bullet is powdered copper in a polymer matrix. It supposedly takes advantage of some hydraulic alchemy to create wounds similar to those created by a rifle. That is not hyperbole, the manufacturer actually claims that pistol ammunition is capable of producing rifle-like wounds. In reality, it functions like a FMJ, at least when it doesn’t fragment. View Quote The rest of the article is here, if you're interested. |
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The only plausible wizardry is the new SD rounds which somehow manage long pistol barrel velocities from a short barrel and 380 that is actually lethal...ish.
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The ARX I shot choked a dead nuts reliable Glock.
I keep asking "Have you killed anything with it?" but none of the snake oil salesman can show me a video or post mortem pics. Go figure. Physics are a bitch. I'd hate to be a gun oil salesman, too. eta - free box of ARX to anyone local in PHX if they promise to kill something javelina sized or bigger and video it. |
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The counter the article, often times far too much significance is placed upon ammo selection as if that is the only factor that matters in a self defense encounter. The article seems to suggest the ammo companies have some kind of liability for making a product that may not work as well as the best in the market. I disagree with that assertion; people can make their own choices for what ammo they choose to stake their lives on.
In reality a lot of this is just splitting hairs, as just by having a gun and sending rounds at an attacker is enough to stop the vast majority of encounters; the whole "thug hopped up on PCP that needs 20 rounds to bring down" is so incredibly rare as to be almost irrelevant. |
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I figure if HST's are good enough for the FBI I'll just keep using that until I get my 40 Watts of blaster
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I prefer the reliability of FMJ over any sort of wizardry. IMO, fancy bullets should be reserved for hunting. The only non-FMJ rounds that are good for HD/SD are frangible projectiles.
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Quoted:
The ARX I shot choked a dead nuts reliable Glock. I keep asking "Have you killed anything with it?" but none of the snake oil salesman can show me a video or post mortem pics. Go figure. Physics are a bitch. I'd hate to be a gun oil salesman, too. eta - free box of ARX to anyone local in PHX if they promise to kill something javelina sized or bigger and video it. View Quote The DRT and Lehigh guys regularly take people on deer hunts with their .223 ammo. Of course, I don't think the deer shoot back or take cover. ARX sent me some ammo (I wouldn't have bought any to test) so maybe I'll use that on a javelina hunt, if I ever put in. |
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Any time I read an article that uses 'You see, ....', I feel like the writer is one step above illiterate.
I'm sure it's not true. It's just a weird reaction on my part. |
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View Quote |
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Quoted:
The counter the article, often times far too much significance is placed upon ammo selection as if that is the only factor that matters in a self defense encounter. The article seems to suggest the ammo companies have some kind of liability for making a product that may not work as well as the best in the market. I disagree with that assertion; people can make their own choices for what ammo they choose to stake their lives on. In reality a lot of this is just splitting hairs, as just by having a gun and sending rounds at an attacker is enough to stop the vast majority of encounters; the whole "thug hopped up on PCP that needs 20 rounds to bring down" is so incredibly rare as to be almost irrelevant. View Quote I agree that shit placement is obviously the most important factor, followed very closely by having enough penetration to reach vital organs. I did not mean to imply that ammo makers have any legal liability, but I do believe it is unethical to sell a product that they know doesn't perform the way they claim, wouldn't be useful if it did, and has less chance of stopping a bad guy than more traditional ammo. Some are not as bad as others, though. That Remington Black Belt is merely dumb and not great. The DRT or other shallowly penetrating gimmick is actively dangerous. |
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I had a customer bring in a round of 9mm RIP ammo for the ammo collection I have at the shop. All the sharp edges and cut outs reminded me of those Chinese made "fantasy swords" that are made to impress teenage boys. All flash and show and as worthless as a two week old dead rat.
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Well, the 7.62 DRT stuff is reasonably nasty. PLENTY of oomph to drop the wild pigs we have here. Lots of damage and good penetration. No problem using it as an HD load. Wouldn't trust the pistol stuff, though. Ammo performance is important, but I've seen too many autopsies with plain old 9mm ball ammo that clipped something important.
One thing I never understood was peoples' aversion to jackets separating from the core. If the core expands and otherwise performs as expected, I've always viewed the separated jacket as an additional wound channel generator. |
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Any time I read an article that uses 'You see, ....', I feel like the writer is one step above illiterate. I'm sure it's not true. It's just a weird reaction on my part. View Quote I start looking to the writers background, and what makes them knowledgeable on the subject matter. |
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The stupid thing is these guys are still in business now under a different name still selling their stupid crap.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The stupid thing is these guys are still in business now under a different name still selling their stupid crap.. What's the new name? |
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In general, I think the "new guys" who come up with some "new" bullet are selling gimmicks.
The big companies like Barnes, Hornaday, Speer, Sierra etc, spend a lot of time and R&D making bullets that do what they say they are going to do. They back this up with actual science and tests for the most part. Though they don't usually claim something new and magical, just updates that give better performance. I am thinking of like Gold Dots, Barnes-X, the new OTM stuff, etc. Now some of that is repackaged and new marketing, trying to sell bullets, but in general they at least perform as they say they will. |
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latest gimmickry is polymer projectiles, was a thread on it not too far back
can't find the thread |
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I was pricing 25 packs of these miracle bullets last week and just wanted to scream. What kind of sucker would buy one JHP from another at three times the price?
GTFOH! Well timed thread OP. I was just looking for a quality 50 pack of JHP, maybe +P, and all I could find was 25 packs of whiz bangs for $40. Madness. |
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LULZ
lather and repeat like this is anything new BAT , Glaser , Magsafe, White/Black Rhino, etc etc etc plus a dozen others I can't remember Plus the whole line of 12ga stupidity from All Purpose Ammo been going on for 40 years second verse same as the first |
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Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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A black talon can kill you if it hits you in the thumb. Imagine what a 10mm Black Talon would do A miss is still a hit.....the cavitation causes your organs to explode. |
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