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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:30:17 PM EDT
[#1]
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I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. The capt probably had the office on his ass to leave port. Shipping company are famous for putting your ass in a jam. "If you won't leave the dock we will find someone who will". I'm not saying that's what happened but I wouldn't doubt it. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:40:16 PM EDT
[#2]
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I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. A hole I suspect. Not being an ass but they are in deep shit. With a list I suspect a lot of moving cargo and impact damage. Long Island, San Salvador, Rum Cay is getting hammered. Storm has been practically stationary for over 2 days of 110-135 mph winds. Hope for their survival. Had a casino ship leave Port of Palm Beach years ago to ride out storm with skeleton crew. Never heard from again. "When the waves turn the minutes to hours" |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:44:56 PM EDT
[#3]
It's amazing this stuff still happened. Bad news
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:47:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The capt probably had the office on his ass to leave port. Shipping company are famous for putting your ass in a jam. "If you won't leave the dock we will find someone who will". I'm not saying that's what happened but I wouldn't doubt it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I know the difference. I wonder what the captain was thinking. They went straight into the worst part of the storm. The capt probably had the office on his ass to leave port. Shipping company are famous for putting your ass in a jam. "If you won't leave the dock we will find someone who will". I'm not saying that's what happened but I wouldn't doubt it. I suspect they didn't even have to say anything. The reputation of a captain who wouldn't get the job done is enough, especially if there are examples of men who were let go because they wouldn't take the chance. That kind of unspoken pressure certainly killed its share of airplane crews. Besides that, I wonder how profitable it is to run that route. Haitians in Palm Beach County used to buy old clothes and furniture (junk) at garage sales. They rented containers, shipped it to Haiti and sold it. It can't cost that much to ship the container if they made a living at this. It wasn't a good living, either. One group had a truck with four mismatched bald tires. I hoped they would lose control and run it into a tree before it exploded. Puerto Rico ain't exactly packed with money, either. Given the tight profit margins I expect on the routes, I expect old ships that need maintenance. I hope the crew are okay. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:49:52 PM EDT
[#5]
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I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. That boat probably takes on gallons of water per hour and bilge pumps keep it from flooding. No power? No bilge pumps. High rough seas? No telling how much is getting in an old boat. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:56:06 PM EDT
[#6]
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US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. One of the companies I work for was previously in the PR shipping trade.. A few of you will probably figure out who that was. They no longer sail there. Every one of their ships sailing to PR could have qualified as a museum if it was a military ship. There are a lot of safety issues and they are not efficient - most are steam powered burning bunker, the steam plants are generally clapped out, leak everywhere, etc. While the Jones act keeps US merchant mariners employed, it also guarantees that we run our shipping fleet to the ragged edge of safety, because the Jones act also specifies that they must be built in the US - even getting significant steel work done requires a US shipyard. So the ships are sent over to China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc. to have the bare minimum steel work done that can be handled outside of the US. The cost of building a ship or doing real shipyard work in the US is just ridiculous and the EPA will be up in your ass from day one and never stop. They've killed the US shipbuilding industry for everything except for smaller craft. One of our Jones act ships a few weeks back had an exposed intermediate prop shaft break at sea and sink to the bottom of the ocean.. Because of the shipyard cost, shaft fractures had been welded rather than shaft replacement. There are only a couple Jones act US flagged companies who are building any new ships. Any way I hope these guys are OK.. I was next to that ship on the dock a few times in Jacksonville and San Juan... And the Sea Star ships almost always have a decent handful of young cadets on board. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 4:56:48 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't know dick about ocean going vessels .... But no power, list, taking on water in cat 4 hurricane just sounds bad ....
I hope they find the crew alive ..... |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:03:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote Historyit's hard to describe just how disconcerting big rolls can be, and some of the sounds ships make in heavy weather. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:04:01 PM EDT
[#9]
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Here are pictures of the ship. Cant see any on it... It would have to have some somewhere though. http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?limit=12&limitstart=0&search_title=&search_title_option=&search_imo=7395351&search_pen_no=&search_mmsi=&search_eni=&search_callsign=&search_category_1=&search_cat1childs=&search_uid=&search_country=&search_port=&search_subports=&search_flag=&search_homeport=&search_adminstatus=&search_classsociety=&search_builder=&search_buildyear1=&search_owner=&search_manager=&sortkey=p.lid&sortorder=desc&page_limit=12&viewtype=1 Edit: Looks like white hulls w/open tops maybe top and each side of the tower/superstructure/whatever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg Here are pictures of the ship. Cant see any on it... It would have to have some somewhere though. http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/search.php?limit=12&limitstart=0&search_title=&search_title_option=&search_imo=7395351&search_pen_no=&search_mmsi=&search_eni=&search_callsign=&search_category_1=&search_cat1childs=&search_uid=&search_country=&search_port=&search_subports=&search_flag=&search_homeport=&search_adminstatus=&search_classsociety=&search_builder=&search_buildyear1=&search_owner=&search_manager=&sortkey=p.lid&sortorder=desc&page_limit=12&viewtype=1 Edit: Looks like white hulls w/open tops maybe top and each side of the tower/superstructure/whatever. yep, open up the pics and they're pretty clear, they're the typical lifeboat, open, and way up high on the superstructure. The orange ones like in the pic above I used to see on the Great Lakes freighters were usually aft of the superstructure, either tucked up tight abaft of the super structure or hanging off the stern. Some were just forward of the super structure. The ones I recall were all set up to be quick dropped by looking at them and not swung out and lowered. prayers for those sailors. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:06:52 PM EDT
[#10]
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it's hard to describe just how disconcerting big rolls can be, and some of the sounds ships make in heavy weather. Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's hard to describe just how disconcerting big rolls can be, and some of the sounds ships make in heavy weather. can't embed, but most people freak out when I show them videos from the tunnel of the ship flexing - end of tunnel dipping up, down, to the sides and sometimes disappearing - "won't it break?" etc. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:10:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Prayers sent for the crew.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:13:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: can't embed, but most people freak out when I show them videos from the tunnel of the ship flexing - end of tunnel dipping up, down, to the sides and sometimes disappearing - "won't it break?" etc. One guy I used to play darts with told us about his ride through a typhoon. He was up pretty high (bridge/pilots house). He calculated his angular movement was over 80' per rock. The ship managed to do hit 45 degrees a few times (which was either its limit or slightly past it). The damage assessment afterwards showed the waves did some funny shit to thinner exposed metal (like bending an S curve in ladder - appears a few waves broke over the deck). That said - it was a US Navy ship - and designed to deal with being in a storm. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:13:58 PM EDT
[#13]
I hope they come through ok. The person who forced them to go to sea in that storm should be locked up.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:15:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Going to sea was probably the correct move - the problem was they lost power and ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:18:53 PM EDT
[#15]
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The sad thing is, every so once in a blue moon - they do break... One guy I used to play darts with told us about his ride through a typhoon. He was up pretty high (bridge/pilots house). He calculated his angular movement was over 80' per rock. The ship managed to do hit 45 degrees a few times (which was either its limit or slightly past it). The damage assessment afterwards showed the waves did some funny shit to thinner exposed metal (like bending an S curve in ladder - appears a few waves broke over the deck). That said - it was a US Navy shit - and designed to deal with being in a storm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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can't embed, but most people freak out when I show them videos from the tunnel of the ship flexing - end of tunnel dipping up, down, to the sides and sometimes disappearing - "won't it break?" etc. One guy I used to play darts with told us about his ride through a typhoon. He was up pretty high (bridge/pilots house). He calculated his angular movement was over 80' per rock. The ship managed to do hit 45 degrees a few times (which was either its limit or slightly past it). The damage assessment afterwards showed the waves did some funny shit to thinner exposed metal (like bending an S curve in ladder - appears a few waves broke over the deck). That said - it was a US Navy shit - and designed to deal with being in a storm. built to navy standards and built to merchant fleet standards are 2 very different things I'm afraid. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:20:27 PM EDT
[#16]
No propulsion to keep your bow into the seas is the kiss of death in heavy weather; not good.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:26:22 PM EDT
[#17]
They left from Jacksonville, my city. It's on the local news. Unfortunately, it was lost in the vicinity of the eye of the hurricane. It might have faced 40 foot seas.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:28:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the companies I work for was previously in the PR shipping trade.. A few of you will probably figure out who that was. They no longer sail there. Every one of their ships sailing to PR could have qualified as a museum if it was a military ship. There are a lot of safety issues and they are not efficient - most are steam powered burning bunker, the steam plants are generally clapped out, leak everywhere, etc. While the Jones act keeps US merchant mariners employed, it also guarantees that we run our shipping fleet to the ragged edge of safety, because the Jones act also specifies that they must be built in the US - even getting significant steel work done requires a US shipyard. So the ships are sent over to China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc. to have the bare minimum steel work done that can be handled outside of the US. The cost of building a ship or doing real shipyard work in the US is just ridiculous and the EPA will be up in your ass from day one and never stop. They've killed the US shipbuilding industry for everything except for smaller craft. One of our Jones act ships a few weeks back had an exposed intermediate prop shaft break at sea and sink to the bottom of the ocean.. Because of the shipyard cost, shaft fractures had been welded rather than shaft replacement. There are only a couple Jones act US flagged companies who are building any new ships. Any way I hope these guys are OK.. I was next to that ship on the dock a few times in Jacksonville and San Juan... And the Sea Star ships almost always have a decent handful of young cadets on board. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. One of the companies I work for was previously in the PR shipping trade.. A few of you will probably figure out who that was. They no longer sail there. Every one of their ships sailing to PR could have qualified as a museum if it was a military ship. There are a lot of safety issues and they are not efficient - most are steam powered burning bunker, the steam plants are generally clapped out, leak everywhere, etc. While the Jones act keeps US merchant mariners employed, it also guarantees that we run our shipping fleet to the ragged edge of safety, because the Jones act also specifies that they must be built in the US - even getting significant steel work done requires a US shipyard. So the ships are sent over to China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc. to have the bare minimum steel work done that can be handled outside of the US. The cost of building a ship or doing real shipyard work in the US is just ridiculous and the EPA will be up in your ass from day one and never stop. They've killed the US shipbuilding industry for everything except for smaller craft. One of our Jones act ships a few weeks back had an exposed intermediate prop shaft break at sea and sink to the bottom of the ocean.. Because of the shipyard cost, shaft fractures had been welded rather than shaft replacement. There are only a couple Jones act US flagged companies who are building any new ships. Any way I hope these guys are OK.. I was next to that ship on the dock a few times in Jacksonville and San Juan... And the Sea Star ships almost always have a decent handful of young cadets on board. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:29:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Thoughts out for my fellow mariners.
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:36:51 PM EDT
[#20]
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I was sailing on the Navigator when it broke down a week after coming back from china. We had to be towed back to San Juan and the Navigator sat there for about two months. What a piece of shit. I may know people on that ship I have sailed on the sister ship El Morro many times. I hope they are found well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Built 1975? That's really old for a container ship, isn't it? http://www.worldshipping.org/about-the-industry/liner-ships/container-ship-design
Container ships have an approximate lifespan of 26 years. US port to US port; the ship must be built and flagged in the US. (The Jones Act) Since we aren't competitive at shipbuilding, a lot of that fleet is very old. One of the companies I work for was previously in the PR shipping trade.. A few of you will probably figure out who that was. They no longer sail there. Every one of their ships sailing to PR could have qualified as a museum if it was a military ship. There are a lot of safety issues and they are not efficient - most are steam powered burning bunker, the steam plants are generally clapped out, leak everywhere, etc. While the Jones act keeps US merchant mariners employed, it also guarantees that we run our shipping fleet to the ragged edge of safety, because the Jones act also specifies that they must be built in the US - even getting significant steel work done requires a US shipyard. So the ships are sent over to China, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc. to have the bare minimum steel work done that can be handled outside of the US. The cost of building a ship or doing real shipyard work in the US is just ridiculous and the EPA will be up in your ass from day one and never stop. They've killed the US shipbuilding industry for everything except for smaller craft. One of our Jones act ships a few weeks back had an exposed intermediate prop shaft break at sea and sink to the bottom of the ocean.. Because of the shipyard cost, shaft fractures had been welded rather than shaft replacement. There are only a couple Jones act US flagged companies who are building any new ships. Any way I hope these guys are OK.. I was next to that ship on the dock a few times in Jacksonville and San Juan... And the Sea Star ships almost always have a decent handful of young cadets on board. Yep the Navigator was one of "our" ships - we may have met before. NV just got broken out a couple weeks ago, but I was in China on the Producer during that time. Like said.. small industry. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:36:52 PM EDT
[#21]
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A hole I suspect. Not being an ass but they are in deep shit. With a list I suspect a lot of moving cargo and impact damage. Long Island, San Salvador, Rum Cay is getting hammered. Storm has been practically stationary for over 2 days of 110-135 mph winds. Hope for their survival. Had a casino ship leave Port of Palm Beach years ago to ride out storm with skeleton crew. Never heard from again. "When the waves turn the minutes to hours" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. A hole I suspect. Not being an ass but they are in deep shit. With a list I suspect a lot of moving cargo and impact damage. Long Island, San Salvador, Rum Cay is getting hammered. Storm has been practically stationary for over 2 days of 110-135 mph winds. Hope for their survival. Had a casino ship leave Port of Palm Beach years ago to ride out storm with skeleton crew. Never heard from again. "When the waves turn the minutes to hours" I believe that 8 of that crew of 11 were found and saved IIRC |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:37:54 PM EDT
[#22]
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Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg That looks like "fuck that" |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:41:55 PM EDT
[#23]
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That looks like "fuck that" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg That looks like "fuck that" have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:47:31 PM EDT
[#25]
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have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg That looks like "fuck that" have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. Yes, I have. It's vastly better than trying to swim or an open top lifeboat in Hurricane seas. Still, fuuuuuuccccckkkk that. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:48:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg That looks like "fuck that" have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. and any of those are better option than going into the drink... |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#27]
The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:57:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. truth |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:57:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. Would those open top lifeboats have EPIRBs? |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 5:58:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is 15 degrees really that bad? It's not good...in a Cat 4 hurricane it's really bad. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:01:41 PM EDT
[#31]
I can understand leaving port and getting shit done but what I don't understand is the route they took.
Common sense would tell me that if there were a big storm brewin' that I would stay nearer to the coast and definitely west of the Bahamas. I was out today and from shore on out to about 20 miles it was a swimming pool compared to what those boys must be in. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:05:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can understand leaving port and getting shit done but what I don't understand is the route they took. Common sense would tell me that if there were a big storm brewin' that I would stay nearer to the coast and definitely west of the Bahamas. I was out today and from shore on out to about 20 miles it was a swimming pool compared to what those boys must be in. http://www.pbcgov.com/webcams/slwi/inl001.jpg http://video-monitoring.com/beachcams/lakeworthinlet/pics/s8/aug2415s/o021740g.jpg when there's bad weather coming you want to get out of the gulf stream, fast. generally you try to get east of it so you have more water to play with. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:06:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would those open top lifeboats have EPIRBs? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. Would those open top lifeboats have EPIRBs? they are required to per SOLAS regs |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:15:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Not to be a downer but with the details I read .. And Fox News said 38 boaters.. No the term is fucking Sailors or mariners dumbass
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:15:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What kind of lifeboats do they have on those? Any chance they could've gotten off the ship? Usually this style and inflatables. http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00RByTKcbWrelM/Totally-Enclosed-FRP-Lifeboat-Rescue-Boat.jpg That looks like "fuck that" have you seen the alternative? many ships still sail with open lifeboats. at least these ones will self-right in heavy seas and won't get swamped with the hatches secured. Have you seen what the Edmund Fitzgerald's lifeboats looked like after the storm? Those goofy orange ones will be torn apart. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:17:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:17:50 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. That's good news. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:21:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. I'm not sure. I would guess between 5-8 crew. Captain, 2 mates, 2-3 able seamen, and probably 2 engineers, maybe a cook but I doubt it. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:34:25 PM EDT
[#39]
Here is the last position noted via one source.
El Faro position That point is close to and east of Great Abaco island in the Bahamas. That island is east of Grand Bahamas island. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:37:04 PM EDT
[#40]
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The guys at the gcaptain.com forum (a professional mariner forum) are confirming that the El Faro has open life boats on davits.
Also an unconfirmed report that an EPIRB is going off that is assigned to the ship. Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. If it's this one, that looks tough. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:41:35 PM EDT
[#41]
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I'm not sure. I would guess between 5-8 crew. Captain, 2 mates, 2-3 able seamen, and probably 2 engineers, maybe a cook but I doubt it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. I'm not sure. I would guess between 5-8 crew. Captain, 2 mates, 2-3 able seamen, and probably 2 engineers, maybe a cook but I doubt it. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:23:41 PM EDT
[#42]
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Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. I'm not sure. I would guess between 5-8 crew. Captain, 2 mates, 2-3 able seamen, and probably 2 engineers, maybe a cook but I doubt it. http://www.professionalmariner.com/Crowley3.jpg
I wonder how much of that hull space is for fuel tanks? Half? |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:30:09 PM EDT
[#43]
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Crowley Maritime has sent an Invader class tug (6000hp) out to help the ship. If there is any tug on this earth that can take a beating it's an Invader class boat. What's the crew size on one of those? The specs I found didn't list a crew size. I'm not sure. I would guess between 5-8 crew. Captain, 2 mates, 2-3 able seamen, and probably 2 engineers, maybe a cook but I doubt it. http://www.professionalmariner.com/Crowley3.jpg
That's a damn pretty boat. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:35:51 PM EDT
[#44]
From another site:
There's another thread on this but I have some insider info. I'm a Deck Officer in the Merchant Marine. Been shipping out for 20 years now. This freighter, The El Faro, was due to sink. I know guys working on there. The Captain was a psychotic prick. The ship was in such disrepair that the crew shoveled rust scale off the deck like it was freshly fallen snow. The boat was always having problems. It was certainly not sea worthy. This same Captain has taken the ship into other storms. Namely a North Atlantic storm where they lost a cargo of new BMW's coming from Europe. But this incident is beyond comprehension. No ship master would ever steam directly with full intentions into the heart of a Catrgory 4 Hurricane. He left Jacksonville knowing damn well what the conditions were. He went straight for it. In my experience this appears to be some kind of suicide mission. There were 33 guys onboard. The last contact they received from the ship was that they had lost power and were beset by the storm. We are talking 80 foot waves. Some ships can handle that hove too if they can keep their engines running. But when you lose your power plant its game set match. Ships always turn broad to the see. The waves effect what's called a synchronous roll going from deck edge to deck edge until the righting moment is lost and she sinks like a brick. The crew had to have known they were going to die. There's no way this ship is still floating. Not a chance in hell. Maybe they will pick up some survivors. But I doubt it. Anyway, this whole thing stinks to me. [link to www.firstcoastnews.com] Apprarently 33 men is a grossly oversized crew for a ship this size, 24 is typical. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:37:55 PM EDT
[#45]
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when there's bad weather coming you want to get out of the gulf stream, fast. generally you try to get east of it so you have more water to play with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can understand leaving port and getting shit done but what I don't understand is the route they took. Common sense would tell me that if there were a big storm brewin' that I would stay nearer to the coast and definitely west of the Bahamas. I was out today and from shore on out to about 20 miles it was a swimming pool compared to what those boys must be in. http://www.pbcgov.com/webcams/slwi/inl001.jpg http://video-monitoring.com/beachcams/lakeworthinlet/pics/s8/aug2415s/o021740g.jpg when there's bad weather coming you want to get out of the gulf stream, fast. generally you try to get east of it so you have more water to play with. Seems like the opposite of what I'd want to do. When it get's snotty I like to stay within eye shot of land. *PR is a lot further east than I thought it was. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:42:53 PM EDT
[#46]
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it's hard to describe just how disconcerting big rolls can be, and some of the sounds ships make in heavy weather. Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's hard to describe just how disconcerting big rolls can be, and some of the sounds ships make in heavy weather. Reading the descriptions of steaming through a storm on smaller ships (WWII-era destroyers) is interesting. Talking about how when the ship rolled one could almost walk on the bulkheads before it rolled back the other way. That would be incredibly disconcerting. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:47:56 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/2/2015 7:49:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryYep. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 8:07:39 PM EDT
[#49]
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I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? The Interstate Highway system allows a 6% grade - three degrees - because any more than that is too steep an incline. Fifteen degrees is very bad. The Tower Of Pisa had to be restored when the lean angle was five and a half degrees. bear in mind we're not talking about roll, we're talking about list. BIG difference. 15 degree list, loss of the powerplant plus the vessel reported flooding. very, very, very bad. I wonder what the cause of the flooding is. The hurricane, I would presume. |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 8:08:21 PM EDT
[#50]
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Roll, no. List yes, especially without power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is 15 degrees really that bad? Roll, no. List yes, especially without power. Makes sense about roll v. list |
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