Our PD only pays the first $100 of anything damaged that is personally owned.  The money gets paid out when a voucher with a supervisor's signature and a detailed narrative is provided.

We got $750 per year, Uniform pants ran around $100 per, Long Sleeve Shirts were about $60 each, Short Sleeve $50, Patches were $2.75 each, Stripes for the trousers were IIRC $10 per pair. Anything damaged LOD and we at least were SOL, Whether it was Uniform or Personal stuff.  I wore a $30 Timex watch for most of my Career.  In 25 years I had only one pair of glasses broken that I wasnt on the hook for myself.  Shitbag Junkie that I had to roll around with to get cuffed, breaking my glasses, his mother worked for  an optician, she took my glasses and fixed them for me. The only thing we were issued was Shield, Hatpiece, Weapon, Holster, and a Shitty plastic Monadock straight Baton, everything else came out of pocket.  It took about 5 years of Uniform allowance to break even from Academy uniforms, Initial basic purchase of street uniforms, Leather Gear, Raincoat, Leather Winter Coat ($600 in 1987, i have no idea what they are now), Dress Blouse, Intermediate Jacket, yadda yadda yadda

$100 is nothing Well, I guess it's better than nothing but that is maybe a watch, some gloves, eyewear nothing major.

and if a supervisor doesn't like you, I can see that getting denied or making you jump hoops

I'm going with 'OP is a fucktard' for 500 Alex

Well, that explains the competition for gear at reasonable prices. I can see how needing access to gear that you don't have to take a small bank loan out for that's going
to have a useful long life would be when it's coming out of your own pocket.

So I guess I'm not the only one running around without a "Navy SEAL" watch. Half the privates in my squad at my last unit had a better watch and cell phone than me. I
kept telling them to watch their money but they were spending like they had plenty to burn. Then again, I'm recently divorced and only 1 of them was married.

Wow, optician.....that's some luck on your side at least.

Decent holster or generic Safariland type?

$600 for a winter coat in 1987....you musta held onto that one tight. Did you get a lot of use out of it?

5 years....almost like a Doctor paying off student loans

Calm down Nancy.

Hey, you're forgetting we're members of the League of Shadows


image hosting site over 5mb

OP is long gone I think. Might return as Hercules ballz or Poseidon's fist down the road but from what I can tell, he won't be responding as Neptune's spear anytime soon.

Please baffle us with your plan of attack, how would you have responded?

Like I said, the dollar amounts haven't been updated in forever. At least 27 years since that's how long I've been here
A C note wont cover prescription glasses. They wont replace sunglasses
We've never had dental or vision the whole time I've been here.
We've had Glocks for 20 years or so. the county wont update the language in the contract covering initial issue gear
For that matter we've been operating without a  contract for at least 15 years.
We just agreed to a contract last month although it hasn't been signed yet

I dont believe he has the means any longer

Went to the place we were told to go to....Custom made, the off the rack coats were about half the price i found out too late   Oh, and we only got $250 uniform allowance the first year.  Thank god for my parents, they helped me out covering everything....oh yeah, and I forgot in 1998 we changed Uniforms completely, New Shirts, New Pants, new Intermediate jacket.   Holdters were Gould & Goodrich when we had revolvers, Safariland SSIII when we first got Glocks in 92, switching over to 6200 series as the straps on the SS holsters wore out.  Tac light was on you, but they would order the correct holster if you chose to carry one.

Well that's a somber heads up.

True, I think I forked over $500 for my son's prescription glasses

I don't know a lot about vision but dental is cheap enough that a town, city, county should be paying that. IMO that's just wrong on so many levels.

Without a contract? 15 years...........Wow

Sounds like things are tight.

My son will be graduating soon and he doesn't know what he wants to do. I brought up law enforcement casually a couple times but it didn't seem to have any traction.
The closest I got him towards considering the military was Navy ROTC. My last company commander tried to sell him on Engineer but he just looked uncomfortable the whole time.

My ex worked at Intel Corp in Santa Clara, CA. and there were so many perks. I realized I should have gone computer science not business admin for college.

A friend of mine working Fremont PD which doesn't pay as much as Sunnyvale or some of the other San Francisco area PDs but it's not bad, decided he wanted in on the Silicon Valley money but eventually he ended up having to move to Denver to balance the cost of living and the wacky life that is living in California. Software engineers are raking over $100K starting salary at some companies but their bringing in Indian engineers for $60 to $80 on HB-1 Visas to keep cost down.

Well that puts some perspective on the things.

Correct holster......well I guess that's throwing you a bone for forking over for a light.

Change of uniform........ so you feel my pain on the Army's merry go round of new uniforms musical chairs since 1999.

in a case like this do both accounts get banned? im sure norcal can find his other account. time to make a 3rd and 4th account recon..

Ouch that doesn't cover much of anything

When I think of a break down of basic soldiers TA-50 + additional items like waterproof writing pads at $6 a pop - Leatherman, spiderco or some kind of pocket knife, rain gear, elbow/knee pads, camelback, gloves, eyewear, flash lights, etc. it adds up to around $5K I think.

3 uniforms can become unserviceable within a year depending on use, terrain, etc.

That's a lot of other stuff to cover and would explain wanting access to surplus.

Having learned the hard way, tax write offs don't cover everything under the sun.

What are you talking about? In Roane County alone we have over 700 MILES of shoreline.




...you mean ocean?


I give up.

Once the shooter is down, the initial response guys (patrol) lock down the location. The initial response goes from active shooter contact to scene security. The response goes from running towards the sounds of gunshots, screaming etc to scene lock down, security and containment. On the initial entry by the patrol guys 90%ish of the building is completely bypassed as the ONLY priority is stopping the killing.

SWAT/SRT etc is tasked with the room to room, closet to closet, under desk, etc static search at that point as they are the ones who theoretically have the extra training to deal with potential booby traps, hidden 2nd, 3rd etc gun men, facilitating the entry of medical or casualty remove teams etc.

That does not fall on the initial 2-6 patrol guys who mustered up at the doors and then go in using what ever active shooter "attack" system that they have been trained in.

Typically I am against the whole "militaristic" type uniforms (and I have been a cop for 20 +years) but there is a time and a place in LE for a different uniform that the french blues and wool pants and searching a building, campus etc AFTER an active shooter event it one of those times that I dont have a problem with.

just my 2 cents of having been involved in this stuff since before "active shooter" was a key phrase in America LE.

J-

There's a lot I'd like to say, but I see too many deaf ears.

Here's my post count upper...

Milsurp was a Godsend in almost every agency I worked for.

I was a screener for one department. I came home from Fort Campbell with a PALLET load of woodland fatigues, PAGST helmets, basic TA50 stuff.
You woulda thought it was Christmas time or something.

Not because anyone wanted to play army. In 1996, I was making about 8 an hour with no health insurance or retirement. A uniform shirt was about $30 and pants were about the same. And ripped and tore easily.

You can't wear civy clothes to work in. First, people bitch that you look unprofessional and raggedy as hell when you aren't uniform. I got into trouble over the years responding to problems off duty in whatever I was wearing.

Then, who wants to tear your own personal clothes up? Not everyone gets to do containment. Some of us had to climb into, over and under *everything*, because God help you if you missed something.

So, I never thought I was Big Green wearing their outfits, I was glad to have eight pairs of pants that I didn't have to pay for and could throw away when the ass or knees blew out instead of having to darn and baby them. Like my boots.

Some agencies get carried away. They have huge budgets, and listen to ex mil types who say that whatever the flavor of the day is is the bestest. Notice the gunbelt, holster and shirt on the SGT. All that looks brand new. You may be at a place that gets one call like that every ten years. Not every place is like Chicago or Miami.

SO-

wear the same roll-around-in-the-dirt outfits - arf says its' bad.
wear shorts and a helmet - arf says its' unprofessional and hodgepodge
wear your patrol uniform - tear a hole in it, what are you gonna wear tomorrow? You're a police officer - you're broke.
wear the high dollar shit - arf says you're posing
carry a plain rifle - arf says you're a buster

Bottom line, I don't think arf wants cops to win. Period. Even when they are doing their job, like they are told to do it, in the uniform they are provided, they are still wrong. (shrugs)

Nothing wrong with people questioning, but when you constantly have a question, it kinda shows intent.

Irrelevant. He is commenting on PAID government workers. So now you can't talk about the atf unless you are an agent? May as well shut down gd.  

Many of them want to be super delta seal operators. You can always tell the type. The few guys I had the honor of meeting didn't act like a wannabe. In fact, just talking to them you would never know. They know what they are

Unless that team has jurisdiction in a location that has no wooded areas, which I doubt, stupid post is stupid. Also, the second guy in line (the one that appears to be in shape) has State Trooper written on his gear. So, apparently the multicam is seen as being a good fit for the environment by more than one department.

It isn't any one thing. It's the totality of how we have allowed our government employees to waste, and carry themselves.












You're right - throwing a fit about the color of someone's pants is silly. What isn't silly is when you add up the cost of such things on top of the behavior we so often talk about here. It has gone too far IMO for agents of the state enforcing the will of the state.

The irony though is that regular uniforms cost more than Multicam.

The real world is a bitch, isn't it.

I'm sorry no they don't.



eta: cost is just one factor, and I wasn't just talking about the uniform color. Why did you ignore the other part?

eta #2 Quite ironic to look at those photos and talk about the real world

The cost of what then?

Everything in totality.


eta It's almost always not the fault of the officers either. It's the dipshit politicians and police administration that allow this type of shit to go on. Couple that with a fat and stupid electorate and here we are.

lol

All uniforms for civilians... used by civilians.

You mean the free shit they get from the .mil?


The cost of what again?

Ah. You mean the paint and decals? The cost of upkeep? Training costs? Again you are singling out one thing. I'm talking about the overreach and totality of costs and actions. Not sure why we are splitting hairs here.

Sounds like food stamps btw. Ain't shit free

On a serious note, i read a headline after Ferguson that Obama was squashing .mil transfers, i assumedcit was politcal grandstanding but has that translated to actually blocking .mil transfers?

I heard that too.

I don't think it's a big issue.

The training is free, the paint is a few hundred bucks, and half the time there is zero upkeep until they go the scrap yard.

We've probably spent 2k on maintenance over the last few years.

If you want to talk about overreach, we can, but that has nothing to do with actual MONETARY costs.

None of your arguments have fuck all to do with this thread.

I think I've been through 5 or 6 uniform changes in my time here

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that

~20-25 rounds.

i can't speak for ARF, might be pushing it to say im speaking for .mil but my personal opinion is, if whatever someone's doing has purpose and reason behind it and it's practical and pragmatic, then i"m for it with financial cost being the constant obstacle for all of us. That goes for .mil too. I put some blood, sweat and tears behind my choices, so my point of view is whether the right tools are being utilized to get the job done in an optimal manner. Since im not LEO i dont question whether LE should or shouldnt be using MC but whether its the best choice for a specific locale going by my knowledge of cover and concealment and under my personal belief that one size does not fit all. I dont think any serious person doesnt support LE having the right tools to protect themselves and the public, theres just a consideration whether these are in fact the right tools. Which is why i asked questions to understand the parameters for LEO and get perspective on their limitations and choices. Dont mistake questions for a lack of support. Dont think youll find too many fuck the police types posting, especially in .mil

Okay, i get squirrely when Obama says anything because were catching hell on .mil side since his admin rode into town and i see him as the anti midas touch, everything his staff or him touch turns to shit but he does so much political pandering to his base, i can never tell whats lip service and whats gonna get "fundamentally transformed"

I know the Army prefers it (umbrellas, carrying bag, etc) but imo kill the black, even black gloves, at least as far as concealment goes. During movement it creates such a visual contrast that the human eye quickly zeroes in on it and it can create strong shadows depending on the time of day. Thats my .02

Eh,

What I heard was that the uparmored vehicle pipeline has been shut off, and a few things most departments already got (like grenade launchers and bayonets) are not being approved anymore, but that's all rumor.

Before that becomes a point of contention, to police officers, a bayonet is a free knife used to pry shit open and hack away at foliage until it snaps and you go get another one.

.... although, in the interests of complete honesty, I did try to zip tie my big knife to my blue gun carbine just to prove a point....



Everything is dangerous in the right hands

I didn't get a free knife to hack away at foliage with.
Maybe I should complain to my Congressman

is it a COC violation to insult yourself?

so in other words, you just don't like it that there are LE agencies at all.
gotcha

hell, I had to buy all my own gear

I've bought a good chunk of mine over the years

Order CL IX RCOs down range...

I can't believe this lame ass thread is still going.  Oops..........guess I just bumped it.

Not gonna read all 12 pages, but in regards to op implying camo in a urban enviroment is silly/wrong/pathetic, it's been shown camo in the urban enviroment is actually pretty effective. More so than all black or that 90's white/gray/black camo pattern. Unless your in the desert or like enviroment, there's alot more greenery than one might first appreciate. Next time your downtown just pay attention with a critical eye. Not saying camo in regards to issue uniforms is appropriate or warranted, I'm stating the above in regards to special response situations i.e. swat-active shooter for example.