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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:12:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Lifetime huh?
There's another way. 
Just kidding! This is a tag for results. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:12:41 PM EDT
[#2]
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This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I would argue that this is an invalid lease because it fails to ID the property. Leases generally must include a property description. Absent a valid description, what does the term my property refer to? As fellow counsel advised, you'd be well served to speak to a real estate attorney in PA. Again not giving legal advice. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:12:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That shit even stamped by a notary or have witnesses? Tell uncle to fuck off and sell the place Maybe leases are required to be notarized in TN but I doubt it. There is a short list of documents that legally require a notary or witnesses. Most contracts (like a lease) do not in most jurisdictions. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:13:34 PM EDT
[#4]
That permission doesn't attach to the deed as do easement, water rights, lumber rights, or mineral rights and therefore, it expires when the land is sold.
I also fail to see that your uncle paid anything in consideration of being allowed to hunt the land with his friends so he has no damages when the land changes ownership and he is no longer welcome on the property. I'd have a lawyer inform him of those facts in writing. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:14:04 PM EDT
[#5]
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No legal land description. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg No legal land description. You all say the lease doesn't have this or that. Couple of Lawyers say it could be problematic. Uncle wants to be a prick, I think he could go to court with that paper. Best to call his bluff now. Possible declaratory judgement maybe? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:14:05 PM EDT
[#6]
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You are going to have to consult with an actual real estate lawyer in your state to get the right answer. I can tell you that lease doesn't look too valid (at least if it were in Florida) as it seems to be missing one of the basic elements of a contract, namely consideration. That is, what did the land owner get in exchange for the hunting rights? That is why you see language in deeds like "for $10 consideration in hand"? Also, you would need to check local laws on what leases require. In Florida leases over 1 year have to be done by lawyers and would have to be recorded in order to provide notice to third parties and that lease is missing necessary things (under Florida) law to be recorded (like a notarization). To repeat, internet advice is worth what you paid for it so go see a PA licensed real estate lawyer for a proper answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg You are going to have to consult with an actual real estate lawyer in your state to get the right answer. I can tell you that lease doesn't look too valid (at least if it were in Florida) as it seems to be missing one of the basic elements of a contract, namely consideration. That is, what did the land owner get in exchange for the hunting rights? That is why you see language in deeds like "for $10 consideration in hand"? Also, you would need to check local laws on what leases require. In Florida leases over 1 year have to be done by lawyers and would have to be recorded in order to provide notice to third parties and that lease is missing necessary things (under Florida) law to be recorded (like a notarization). To repeat, internet advice is worth what you paid for it so go see a PA licensed real estate lawyer for a proper answer. My parents are talking to lawyers. I'm here just to see what you guys say. And no money or anything at all was transferred between them. They wrote it up and he signed it. That's all. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:16:00 PM EDT
[#7]
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My parents are talking to lawyers. I'm here just to see what you guys say. And no money or anything at all was transferred between them. They wrote it up and he signed it. That's all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg You are going to have to consult with an actual real estate lawyer in your state to get the right answer. I can tell you that lease doesn't look too valid (at least if it were in Florida) as it seems to be missing one of the basic elements of a contract, namely consideration. That is, what did the land owner get in exchange for the hunting rights? That is why you see language in deeds like "for $10 consideration in hand"? Also, you would need to check local laws on what leases require. In Florida leases over 1 year have to be done by lawyers and would have to be recorded in order to provide notice to third parties and that lease is missing necessary things (under Florida) law to be recorded (like a notarization). To repeat, internet advice is worth what you paid for it so go see a PA licensed real estate lawyer for a proper answer. My parents are talking to lawyers. I'm here just to see what you guys say. And no money or anything at all was transferred between them. They wrote it up and he signed it. That's all. I believe that letter is a permission slip rather than an actual "lease" of any sort. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#8]
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Uncle is being a dickwad...shame it happens so often Maybe, or it could be family land and all the Uncle wanted was to continue hunting it till he died and that was the only consideration he received for the family land. Who knows. Why would anyone sign that for no reason? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:16:36 PM EDT
[#9]
If restrictions weren't put on the deed that paper is worthless.
Plus it says my land. When its no longer his land that paper means nothing |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldnt be too worried if i was new owners. "Lease" if thats what you want to call it says "my land" with no description or legal connection to said property after dad sells it. Id buy it, and promptly call the police once jack ass hunting party shows up to trespass. They have nothing and any lawyer would probably agree that the "document" is full of holes. Yea, the document may have problems on its face, it is still possible that there exists parole evidence to validate it. For example, the lease appears to be missing consideration but perhaps there is a cancelled check somewhere that was done contemporaneously to establish that there was consideration. Maybe witnesses are required but even if they didn't sign that they witnessed it, state law might still allow them to testify that they witnessed it. My property could be enough of a legal description with proof that the maker only owned one plot of land at the time of signing. My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that any lawyer will say the "document is full of holes" as maybe it is and maybe it isn't... depending on PA state laws. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:17:34 PM EDT
[#11]
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Maybe leases are required to be notarized in TN but I doubt it. There is a short list of documents that legally require a notary or witnesses. Most contracts (like a lease) do not in most jurisdictions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That shit even stamped by a notary or have witnesses? Tell uncle to fuck off and sell the place Maybe leases are required to be notarized in TN but I doubt it. There is a short list of documents that legally require a notary or witnesses. Most contracts (like a lease) do not in most jurisdictions. Our duck leases sure as shit do - along with insurance as well |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:18:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I posted a while back about my dad's brother having a lifetime lease to hunt on my dad's property. But the main problem now is my parents have a person that wants to buy the house and property but want a signed letter by my dad's brother stating that when we sell the property that he won't hunt out there anymore. The buyers don't want to have any trouble. Thing is my dad's brother said he will not sign a paper stating that. One lawyer told my parents that there is no way to make him sign it. Is there anything that they can do to make this letter happen? My parents will most likely lose out on the sale of the house if they can't get that letter. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. This is in Pennsylvania. Sounds like your uncle is a selfish asshole. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:18:34 PM EDT
[#13]
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Is this a males handwriting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg Is this a males handwriting? I was wondering if I was the only one to notice, looks female to me, too neat and pretty. 
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:19:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldnt be too worried if i was new owners. "Lease" if thats what you want to call it says "my land" with no description or legal connection to said property after dad sells it. Id buy it, and promptly call the police once jack ass hunting party shows up to trespass. They have nothing and any lawyer would probably agree that the "document" is full of holes. I have run into this same type lease and it was worded almost the same, it isn't valid for the reasons listed above and the fact that no consideration was mentioned. But this was NC so it maybe a little different in Pa, so check with realestate lawyer. Every lease I have evr seen has had a property discription. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:20:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a lawyer. Real estate lawyer in fact but don't know squat about PA law. That seems problematic. Hopefully the "my land" part would be interpreted as while dad owns the land and not actually for the lifetime of bill, et al, but they seriously need to talk to a good lawyer in that county, particularly one who is reputable in real estate law. And be prepared to pay to get rid if bill. I wouldn't buy that problem either. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I'm a lawyer. Real estate lawyer in fact but don't know squat about PA law. That seems problematic. Hopefully the "my land" part would be interpreted as while dad owns the land and not actually for the lifetime of bill, et al, but they seriously need to talk to a good lawyer in that county, particularly one who is reputable in real estate law. And be prepared to pay to get rid if bill. I wouldn't buy that problem either. I think your parents are going to have some legal fees in their future |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:21:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Thats not a lease its a permission slip. There is also no provisions stating that it cant be canceled. It also doesn't state for which persons lifetime it is for. is it the lifetime of the owner, the uncle who is the head of the hunting party, the last surviving member of the hunting party. Your father was also sick and under lots of medications from what you said and may not have been even able to legally sign any contract while not of sound mind. Although If your smart you would speak to a contract/property lawyer.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:21:55 PM EDT
[#17]
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"My property" isn't applicable if he doesn't own it. Seems to be the key. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:22:30 PM EDT
[#18]
I too think it looks more like a permission slip than an actual lease but not knowing PA law, I can't say for sure.
It is worth spending a few bucks on a lawyer. One thing I didn't see mentioned was whose lifetime was the lease good for? Was it the land owner? Was it the main leasee? Was it each member of the hunting party? Was it until any one of the hunters died? Edit: beat by 1 minute discussing the "lifetime" issue. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:25:12 PM EDT
[#19]
Long story short is that he has no claim.
Doesn't mean he can't sue you for the value of the claim, but best case scenario he's going to get a few hundred dollars , more likely than not nothing. When I bought my mountain property in CO some idiot showed up with some piece of paper claiming that he had rights to it from the previous owner, I told him to get lost and he sued me and the case was thrown out before it ever went to court. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:25:44 PM EDT
[#20]
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That shit even stamped by a notary or have witnesses? Tell uncle to fuck off and sell the place No notary and the only witnesses they could come up with would be ones that "said they were there". |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:26:42 PM EDT
[#21]
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Yea, the document may have problems on its face, it is still possible that there exists parole evidence to validate it. For example, the lease appears to be missing consideration but perhaps there is a cancelled check somewhere that was done contemporaneously to establish that there was consideration. Maybe witnesses are required but even if they didn't sign that they witnessed it, state law might still allow them to testify that they witnessed it. My property could be enough of a legal description with proof that the maker only owned one plot of land at the time of signing. My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that any lawyer will say the "document is full of holes" as maybe it is and maybe it isn't... depending on PA state laws. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wouldnt be too worried if i was new owners. "Lease" if thats what you want to call it says "my land" with no description or legal connection to said property after dad sells it. Id buy it, and promptly call the police once jack ass hunting party shows up to trespass. They have nothing and any lawyer would probably agree that the "document" is full of holes. Yea, the document may have problems on its face, it is still possible that there exists parole evidence to validate it. For example, the lease appears to be missing consideration but perhaps there is a cancelled check somewhere that was done contemporaneously to establish that there was consideration. Maybe witnesses are required but even if they didn't sign that they witnessed it, state law might still allow them to testify that they witnessed it. My property could be enough of a legal description with proof that the maker only owned one plot of land at the time of signing. My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that any lawyer will say the "document is full of holes" as maybe it is and maybe it isn't... depending on PA state laws. This is the crux of the matter, unless you're familiar with PA statutes and case law, all of this discussion is based on generalities which may or may not be true. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:27:13 PM EDT
[#22]
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What if new buyers get sued by uncle to enforce lifetime hunting lease? I can see new buyers worries. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I posted a while back about my dad's brother having a lifetime lease to hunt on my dad's property. But the main problem now is my parents have a person that wants to buy the house and property but want a signed letter by my dad's brother stating that when we sell the property that he won't hunt out there anymore. The buyers don't want to have any trouble. Thing is my dad's brother said he will not sign a paper stating that. One lawyer told my parents that there is no way to make him sign it. Is there anything that they can do to make this letter happen? My parents will most likely lose out on the sale of the house if they can't get that letter. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. This is in Pennsylvania. What if new buyers get sued by uncle to enforce lifetime hunting lease? I can see new buyers worries. Exactly, leases usually transfer with the sale of property. A new landlord can't throw you out until your lease expires, which this one doesn't. The most obvious option is to try and buy him out. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:28:14 PM EDT
[#23]
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If restrictions weren't put on the deed that paper is worthless. Plus it says my land. When its no longer his land that paper means nothing I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:29:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea, the document may have problems on its face, it is still possible that there exists parole evidence to validate it. For example, the lease appears to be missing consideration but perhaps there is a cancelled check somewhere that was done contemporaneously to establish that there was consideration. Maybe witnesses are required but even if they didn't sign that they witnessed it, state law might still allow them to testify that they witnessed it. My property could be enough of a legal description with proof that the maker only owned one plot of land at the time of signing. My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that any lawyer will say the "document is full of holes" as maybe it is and maybe it isn't... depending on PA state laws. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I wouldnt be too worried if i was new owners. "Lease" if thats what you want to call it says "my land" with no description or legal connection to said property after dad sells it. Id buy it, and promptly call the police once jack ass hunting party shows up to trespass. They have nothing and any lawyer would probably agree that the "document" is full of holes. Yea, the document may have problems on its face, it is still possible that there exists parole evidence to validate it. For example, the lease appears to be missing consideration but perhaps there is a cancelled check somewhere that was done contemporaneously to establish that there was consideration. Maybe witnesses are required but even if they didn't sign that they witnessed it, state law might still allow them to testify that they witnessed it. My property could be enough of a legal description with proof that the maker only owned one plot of land at the time of signing. My point is that you can't just make a blanket statement that any lawyer will say the "document is full of holes" as maybe it is and maybe it isn't... depending on PA state laws. Two actually. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:30:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg Wow, that was dumb. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:30:33 PM EDT
[#26]
The sign says, "my land"
Land is no longer his. How do the buyers know about it anyways? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:31:35 PM EDT
[#27]
That's written permission to hunt the property, not a lease. Your dad could have changed his mind and revoked the permission at any time. Tell him to pound sand.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:33:19 PM EDT
[#28]
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I believe that letter is a permission slip rather than an actual "lease" of any sort. That's actually a funny way of looking at it and I agree. And I certainly don't think that it grants hunting rights in perpetuity, on its face, because there is no consideration on the part of the lessee, which is spelled out in the agreement. But once the lawyers get involved, there goes any profit. Chris |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:36:53 PM EDT
[#29]
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Exactly, leases usually transfer with the sale of property. A new landlord can't throw you out until your lease expires, which this one doesn't. The most obvious option is to try and buy him out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I posted a while back about my dad's brother having a lifetime lease to hunt on my dad's property. But the main problem now is my parents have a person that wants to buy the house and property but want a signed letter by my dad's brother stating that when we sell the property that he won't hunt out there anymore. The buyers don't want to have any trouble. Thing is my dad's brother said he will not sign a paper stating that. One lawyer told my parents that there is no way to make him sign it. Is there anything that they can do to make this letter happen? My parents will most likely lose out on the sale of the house if they can't get that letter. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. This is in Pennsylvania. What if new buyers get sued by uncle to enforce lifetime hunting lease? I can see new buyers worries. Exactly, leases usually transfer with the sale of property. A new landlord can't throw you out until your lease expires, which this one doesn't. The most obvious option is to try and buy him out. How is it a lease?? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:37:07 PM EDT
[#30]
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I could see his parents moving to The Villages down in Florida and the hunting party setting up tree stands and terrorizing the golfers on their four-wheelers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"My property" isn't applicable if he doesn't own it. I could see his parents moving to The Villages down in Florida and the hunting party setting up tree stands and terrorizing the golfers on their four-wheelers. Del Boca vista phase 2? Now would make a funny story at the cracker barrel for the early bird. 
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:37:10 PM EDT
[#31]
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I am not a lawyer, but that does not look like a lease, or even a contract. It is just a permission slip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I am not a lawyer, but that does not look like a lease, or even a contract. It is just a permission slip. You'd be surprised. I've heard of "the shortest valid will." The story goes that a farmer had a tractor overturn on him, pinning him under it. Before he died he used a knife to scrawl on the side of the tractor "All to son" and marked it with an "X." Apparently a court honored it. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:37:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I posted a while back about my dad's brother having a lifetime lease to hunt on my dad's property. But the main problem now is my parents have a person that wants to buy the house and property but want a signed letter by my dad's brother stating that when we sell the property that he won't hunt out there anymore. The buyers don't want to have any trouble. Thing is my dad's brother said he will not sign a paper stating that. One lawyer told my parents that there is no way to make him sign it. Is there anything that they can do to make this letter happen? My parents will most likely lose out on the sale of the house if they can't get that letter. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. This is in Pennsylvania. It says "lifetime", right? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:37:56 PM EDT
[#33]
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I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If restrictions weren't put on the deed that paper is worthless. Plus it says my land. When its no longer his land that paper means nothing I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. I don't see the need to transfer the property first. Whoever owns the place (or an agent of that person) can tell him he is no longer welcome on the property. If he ignores that, call the law. They will tell him again that if he returns, he will be charged, he then goes to jail the next time. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:37:58 PM EDT
[#34]
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The sign says, "my land" Land is no longer his. How do the buyers know about it anyways? I think my parents told the realtor so they didn't get themselves backed into a bigger mess. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:40:36 PM EDT
[#35]
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"My property" isn't applicable if he doesn't own it. That's what I was thinking |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:41:13 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If restrictions weren't put on the deed that paper is worthless. Plus it says my land. When its no longer his land that paper means nothing I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. I can't say if that will fix it but that might create other problems or increase costs such as additional taxes due on the deed to you or removing homestead exemptions on the property. Further, if the lease was in fact valid on future buyers, meaning you, then it just might be valid on whom ever you sell it to. Bottom, line, don't bother with the additional deed, get legal advice. Also, I saw you mentioned that your dad owns two properties so how would a court know which property your dad intended to grant a hunting lease? Is one property in a city or not otherwise suitable for hunting (at the time of the signing of the lease)? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:41:54 PM EDT
[#37]
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I could see his parents moving to The Villages down in Florida and the hunting party setting up tree stands and terrorizing the golfers on their four-wheelers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"My property" isn't applicable if he doesn't own it. I could see his parents moving to The Villages down in Florida and the hunting party setting up tree stands and terrorizing the golfers on their four-wheelers. LOL Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:43:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Would a certified letter from a lawyer stating that his privileges are revoked and is not allowed on the property count as a signed letter? He would have to sign for the letter and would obviously read it. I know most of you can't give me a 100% answer but thoughts?
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:44:52 PM EDT
[#39]
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You'd be surprised. I've heard of "the shortest valid will." The story goes that a farmer had a tractor overturn on him, pinning him under it. Before he died he used a knife to scrawl on the side of the tractor "All to son" and marked it with an "X." Apparently a court honored it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I am not a lawyer, but that does not look like a lease, or even a contract. It is just a permission slip. You'd be surprised. I've heard of "the shortest valid will." The story goes that a farmer had a tractor overturn on him, pinning him under it. Before he died he used a knife to scrawl on the side of the tractor "All to son" and marked it with an "X." Apparently a court honored it. Understood that anything can happen in court. However, we have no proof that Uncle Bill provided anything on his side, which would make it a contract. The paper says "agreement", but I don't see on there anywhere where Bill agreed to do anything, or that Uncle Bill even signed it. It just seems odd that dad cannot withdraw a permission once he had given it. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:45:47 PM EDT
[#40]
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I would argue that this is an invalid lease because it fails to ID the property. Leases generally must include a property description. Absent a valid description, what does the term my property refer to? As fellow counsel advised, you'd be well served to speak to a real estate attorney in PA. Again not giving legal advice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I would argue that this is an invalid lease because it fails to ID the property. Leases generally must include a property description. Absent a valid description, what does the term my property refer to? As fellow counsel advised, you'd be well served to speak to a real estate attorney in PA. Again not giving legal advice. It's on the property of Bill's brother. Everyone "around" knows where it's located. If I wanted the property and bought it, I'm afraid Dad's brother is out of luck, although depending on the details he might be able to pay for permission to hunt, but he's not going to bring a list of his buddies to hunt out there, too. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:46:49 PM EDT
[#41]
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Would a certified letter from a lawyer stating that his privileges are revoked and is not allowed on the property count as a signed letter? He would have to sign for the letter and would obviously read it. I know most of you can't give me a 100% answer but thoughts? I only read the thread to the pic and decided to say to just write a letter and rescind the permission. Done. If it was a lease, go up to a point that it would be cheaper to buy the land vs lease it. Evidently this was already mentioned.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:46:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would a certified letter from a lawyer stating that his privileges are revoked and is not allowed on the property count as a signed letter? He would have to sign for the letter and would obviously read it. I know most of you can't give me a 100% answer but thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:47:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Can't your dad just revoke it?
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:48:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg The only thing that would happen if your parents sold the property is that your father would be liable to your brother for breaking the lease agreement. The new property owners would have nothing to do with it and your bother would no longer be allowed in the property without the new owner's permission. Not an attorney. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:48:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My parents are talking to lawyers. I'm here just to see what you guys say. And no money or anything at all was transferred between them. They wrote it up and he signed it. That's all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg You are going to have to consult with an actual real estate lawyer in your state to get the right answer. I can tell you that lease doesn't look too valid (at least if it were in Florida) as it seems to be missing one of the basic elements of a contract, namely consideration. That is, what did the land owner get in exchange for the hunting rights? That is why you see language in deeds like "for $10 consideration in hand"? Also, you would need to check local laws on what leases require. In Florida leases over 1 year have to be done by lawyers and would have to be recorded in order to provide notice to third parties and that lease is missing necessary things (under Florida) law to be recorded (like a notarization). To repeat, internet advice is worth what you paid for it so go see a PA licensed real estate lawyer for a proper answer. My parents are talking to lawyers. I'm here just to see what you guys say. And no money or anything at all was transferred between them. They wrote it up and he signed it. That's all. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:48:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't say if that will fix it but that might create other problems or increase costs such as additional taxes due on the deed to you or removing homestead exemptions on the property. Further, if the lease was in fact valid on future buyers, meaning you, then it just might be valid on whom ever you sell it to. Bottom, line, don't bother with the additional deed, get legal advice. Also, I saw you mentioned that your dad owns two properties so how would a court know which property your dad intended to grant a hunting lease? Is one property in a city or not otherwise suitable for hunting (at the time of the signing of the lease)? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If restrictions weren't put on the deed that paper is worthless. Plus it says my land. When its no longer his land that paper means nothing I'm wondering since it says my dad's name and not my moms since she is on the deed. What if they sold me the property then it wouldn't be his anymore and I'll take care of this shit. Then sell to the will be buyers. I can't say if that will fix it but that might create other problems or increase costs such as additional taxes due on the deed to you or removing homestead exemptions on the property. Further, if the lease was in fact valid on future buyers, meaning you, then it just might be valid on whom ever you sell it to. Bottom, line, don't bother with the additional deed, get legal advice. Also, I saw you mentioned that your dad owns two properties so how would a court know which property your dad intended to grant a hunting lease? Is one property in a city or not otherwise suitable for hunting (at the time of the signing of the lease)? Both property's are next to each other. One is 4 acres and the other is around 100 acres. The 4 acre plot would be suitable for hunting as you can be far enough away from the dwelling and it's in deep country. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:48:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd be surprised. I've heard of "the shortest valid will." The story goes that a farmer had a tractor overturn on him, pinning him under it. Before he died he used a knife to scrawl on the side of the tractor "All to son" and marked it with an "X." Apparently a court honored it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1. Is the lifetime lease in writing? If not see statute of frauds and dec action if necessary. 2. You can't make someone sign something 3. If it is in writing they have a problem. Most problems can be solved with money. 4. Go to a local lawyer who knows about real estate law, not the divorce guy, and not an Internet forum full of know it alls. This is the lease. My parents are exploring other options, I just figured I would ask here to see what you guys say. http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/D-RAS03/E0A3FA46-6FF1-4CF1-9A83-49468F2F3363_zpsr8p1pnfe.jpg I am not a lawyer, but that does not look like a lease, or even a contract. It is just a permission slip. You'd be surprised. I've heard of "the shortest valid will." The story goes that a farmer had a tractor overturn on him, pinning him under it. Before he died he used a knife to scrawl on the side of the tractor "All to son" and marked it with an "X." Apparently a court honored it. A will written entirely in a testator's handwriting and signed by them is known as a holographic will. They used to be valid but most states don't honor them any more. The story you are thinking of is George Harris and he left everything to his wife. Even if the will wasn't valid (which I think it was), everything would have gone to the wife anyway under typical intestate laws.  |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:50:35 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm in PA and solve problems. Shoot me a PM if you unsuccessfully exhaust common remedies. Be forewarned that my rates border on the preposterous. However, my successes rate is beyond reproach.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:52:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Interesting that the actual lawyers seem to feel uncomfortable with that piece of paper.
I think your parents are going to have some legal fees in their future Screw that. Tell the guy to go to hell and GTFO. Tell him he doesn't like it to sue your parents. He is going to look like an ass unless he is paying at least close to market value for this "hunting lease" every year. Otherwise it was just permission slip valid for the game warden. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:52:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both property's are next to each other. One is 4 acres and the other is around 100 acres. The 4 acre plot would be suitable for hunting as you can be far enough away from the dwelling and it's in deep country. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also, I saw you mentioned that your dad owns two properties so how would a court know which property your dad intended to grant a hunting lease? Is one property in a city or not otherwise suitable for hunting (at the time of the signing of the lease)? Both property's are next to each other. One is 4 acres and the other is around 100 acres. The 4 acre plot would be suitable for hunting as you can be far enough away from the dwelling and it's in deep country. That brings back the question of which land the lease applies to. As I saw mentioned, there is already a local attorney involved so why ask us? |
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