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Posted: 8/29/2015 8:14:54 PM EDT
Has this been done before . Im guessing WW2 or Korea had the best opportunity for it to happen . All google does is pull up random stuff
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I assume engine(s) failed. Forced landing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What do you mean by dead stick? I assume engine(s) failed. Forced landing. No. Impossible. At least in the current era. 40s and 50s? No idea, but Id assume no. The deck has to be ready and you still have to fly the proper glideslope. |
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I'd expect the captain would rather have you put down in the water near the ship and wait to be rescued than crash your plane on his flight deck. I've never even been on a carrier, so I'm just thinking that's some basic common sense.
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I know if you lost flight and combined hydraulics on an F14, you'd better hope there was a land base within range with arresting gear.
We had to trap one on land in Bahrain in '93, and the pilot said it was the scariest thing he'd been through while flying and thought at one point he would need to eject. |
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I used to do deadsticks in F-15 Strike Eagle 3.
20 nautical miles out, 5,000 ft. |
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down.
And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. |
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Don't know the answer to the question, although one of the guys from church was a carrier pilot during vietnam.
He told me a great story about landing in the fog one night where he couldn't see the lights needed to land. I don't remember what he called them, but they are set up so if you are too high or too low, you see the wrong color, but if you are coming in at the right angle you see the right color. Anyways, he couldn't see anything, and got talked in over the radio- ?using radar? I don't know. He said it was one of the most stressful things he has ever done. There are some great old guys out there to talk with if you take the time. |
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Come up short and crash into the back of the boat. Land long go off the end and get run over. I'll just ditch.
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I'll find out for you OP. I have a couple of friends that are or were navy pilots. One is retired, flew S3's, one is an active duty F18 pilot and the other is an instructor at Top Gun. I'll get back to you.
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Fresnel lenses or plat lens... Maybe in the old days into the barrier but no way would it be allowed now...
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Seems I remember a WWII thing showing a fighter coming in with gear down on one side only and the prop not turning where the plane hits and skids crab like and zinging into the island as deck crew dive out of the way
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Quoted: Don't know the answer to the question, although one of the guys from church was a carrier pilot during vietnam. He told me a great story about landing in the fog one night where he couldn't see the lights needed to land. I don't remember what he called them, but they are set up so if you are too high or too low, you see the wrong color, but if you are coming in at the right angle you see the right color. View Quote |
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I know it would be a rare circumstance. Obviously badly damaged aircraft were allowed to land so the ossibility if an engine failure on landing may have happened. Just curious but dont think it has happened. And thanks for beibg helpful.
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. View Quote F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? |
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Don't know the answer to the question, although one of the guys from church was a carrier pilot during vietnam. He told me a great story about landing in the fog one night where he couldn't see the lights needed to land. I don't remember what he called them, but they are set up so if you are too high or too low, you see the wrong color, but if you are coming in at the right angle you see the right color. Glide slope indicator. Maverick has the ball |
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F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. |
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Quoted: F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? There was a reason the SSTS needed a 15 k foot runway. And still used a drogue chute. |
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Don't know the answer to the question, although one of the guys from church was a carrier pilot during vietnam. He told me a great story about landing in the fog one night where he couldn't see the lights needed to land. I don't remember what he called them, but they are set up so if you are too high or too low, you see the wrong color, but if you are coming in at the right angle you see the right color. Glide slope indicator. VASI - Visual Approach Slope Indicator |
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VASI - Visual Approach Slope Indicator View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Don't know the answer to the question, although one of the guys from church was a carrier pilot during vietnam. He told me a great story about landing in the fog one night where he couldn't see the lights needed to land. I don't remember what he called them, but they are set up so if you are too high or too low, you see the wrong color, but if you are coming in at the right angle you see the right color. Glide slope indicator. VASI - Visual Approach Slope Indicator Not on the ship its not. Now its the improved Fresnel lens - IFLOLS. |
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Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it |
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Carrier Captain is not going to want a flaming skidmark on his flight deck. He has lots of other aircraft to think about.
Either ditch close to the ship, or zoom climb and pull the yellow handles. |
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You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it But you are trying to hit a very tiny moving target. |
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You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it You think you can do that and still maintain a 3.5 degree glideslpoe? Seriously, even if the math worked, which it doesnt, it could not happen operationally. Ask me how I know. |
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But you are trying to hit a very tiny moving target. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it But you are trying to hit a very tiny moving target. True |
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You think you can do that and still maintain a 3.5 degree glideslpoe? Seriously, even if the math worked, which it doesnt, it could not happen operationally. Ask me how I know. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Given dead stick usually means the spinny thing on the front of the airplane stopped being a spinny thing. Therefore it ain't pulling you forward, so you're slowing down. And the boat, even in WWII, was being pushed away from you at 25+ knots by its spinny things. So you're only hope is to dive at the deck at a speed that let's you overtake the boat, then flare at exactly the right moment to have your plane's speed match the boat and settle/smash into the deck in a survivable crash. Somehow I don't see skipper saying "WTHeck. Give it a go." And in a jet? They'd shoot you down for even asking. You could, of course, test it on a treadmill in the bed of a pickup. F-4U best glide speed 140 kias You can catch up to the 25 kts carrier just fine, but will you run out of altitude first? Nothing is free. You wanna keep that 140kts up? Guess what youre gonna give up? Its not feasible for a million different reasons. You give up altitude. You can keep up the 140kias as long as you have it You think you can do that and still maintain a 3.5 degree glideslpoe? Seriously, even if the math worked, which it doesnt, it could not happen operationally. Ask me how I know. Nope Not saying it is possible.just that flying a Corsair if you lost an engine your best glide speed is clean at 140kias. In reply to the " how you going to catch the carrier "comment. Given the altitude I could catch the carrier fine. As to a last second flare, or the geometry of the whole situation not really real world feasible. Also in reply to the "what you gonna give up" comment. At some point you have to put the gear down and that changes the equation. Do that at the wrong time in a O-2A and the additional drag alone will stall the aircraft. It also turns a decent ditching plane like the Corsair with the inverted gull wing into a death trap the will end up on its back with the gear down. Better off to catch up, wave as you go by and ditch. Tat also keeps the deck clear for the rest of the air group. So you've tried to dead stick a Corsair onto a carrier? ;) |
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Not possible with an F-4
(you can't dead stick an F-4 under any conditions) That's all I know. |
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Nope
Not saying it is possible.just that flying a Corsair if you lost an engine your best glide speed is clean at 140kias. In reply to the " how you going to catch the carrier "comment. Given the altitude I could catch the carrier fine. As to a last second flare, or the geometry of the whole situation not really real world feasible. Also in reply to the "what you gonna give up" comment. At some point you have to put the gear down and that changes the equation. Do that at the wrong time in a O-2A and the additional drag alone will stall the aircraft. It also turns a decent ditching plane like the Corsair with the inverted gull wing into a death trap the will end up on its back with the gear down. Better off to catch up, wave as you go by and ditch. Tat also keeps the deck clear for the rest of the air group. So you've tried to dead stick a Corsair onto a carrier? ;) View Quote No. I have live-sticked an F/A-18 685 times and a T-45A 10 times. That enough? |
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No. I have live-sticked an F/A-18 685 times and a T-45A 10 times. That enough? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Nope
Not saying it is possible.just that flying a Corsair if you lost an engine your best glide speed is clean at 140kias. In reply to the " how you going to catch the carrier "comment. Given the altitude I could catch the carrier fine. As to a last second flare, or the geometry of the whole situation not really real world feasible. Also in reply to the "what you gonna give up" comment. At some point you have to put the gear down and that changes the equation. Do that at the wrong time in a O-2A and the additional drag alone will stall the aircraft. It also turns a decent ditching plane like the Corsair with the inverted gull wing into a death trap the will end up on its back with the gear down. Better off to catch up, wave as you go by and ditch. Tat also keeps the deck clear for the rest of the air group. So you've tried to dead stick a Corsair onto a carrier? ;) No. I have live-sticked an F/A-18 685 times and a T-45A 10 times. That enough? Check your sarcasm meter brother |
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No. I have live-sticked an F/A-18 685 times and a T-45A 10 times. That enough? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Nope
Not saying it is possible.just that flying a Corsair if you lost an engine your best glide speed is clean at 140kias. In reply to the " how you going to catch the carrier "comment. Given the altitude I could catch the carrier fine. As to a last second flare, or the geometry of the whole situation not really real world feasible. Also in reply to the "what you gonna give up" comment. At some point you have to put the gear down and that changes the equation. Do that at the wrong time in a O-2A and the additional drag alone will stall the aircraft. It also turns a decent ditching plane like the Corsair with the inverted gull wing into a death trap the will end up on its back with the gear down. Better off to catch up, wave as you go by and ditch. Tat also keeps the deck clear for the rest of the air group. So you've tried to dead stick a Corsair onto a carrier? ;) No. I have live-sticked an F/A-18 685 times and a T-45A 10 times. That enough? |
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Since the invention of viagra there has been no excuse for dead stick. No excuse at all.
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Carriers were not made for dead stick landings, at least with modern planes. Sure, it MIGHT be possible but aviators don't train for it.
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Quoted: Not possible with an F-4 (you can't dead stick an F-4 under any conditions) That's all I know. View Quote Yep, friend of my fathers flew them. He said it has the flying characteristics of a brick if both engines flame out. As far as a dead stick (no power) landing on a carrier these days? Nope... you would never be cleared to land, and most jets don't have terribly great glide characteristics anyway so they probably wouldn't make it. |
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Yep, friend of my fathers flew them. He said it has roughly the flying characteristics of a brick if both engine flame out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Not possible with an F-4 (you can't dead stick an F-4 under any conditions) That's all I know. Yep, friend of my fathers flew them. He said it has roughly the flying characteristics of a brick if both engine flame out. |
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I've dead stick a B-52, 747, U2, C-5, C-17,C-130, even the space shuttle . Every single one went into the drink. I've even tried it with 60 knot headwinds ... and that wheels down right at the No. 1 wire
I might try to add a tail hook to all of them |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not possible with an F-4 (you can't dead stick an F-4 under any conditions) That's all I know. Yep, friend of my fathers flew them. He said it has roughly the flying characteristics of a brick if both engine flame out. True dat. The F4 was a wonderful example of what brute force could accomplish, no arguments here. It's not beautiful, nor graceful, nor even nice to look at... but it got the job done for a damn long time. |
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When I was in we did barricade drills a couple times a week while deployed. Would only be used to recover severely damaged aircraft with low likelihood of safe recovery via the traps. Rig that bitch and then hide like a mofo!
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When I was in we did barricade drills a couple times a week while deployed. Would only be used to recover severely damaged aircraft with low likelihood of safe recovery via the traps. View Quote The last successful barricade (I think was either 99 or 03). Most CVN Captains would rather the pilot just punch out rather than try a barricade. And of course, the Whale mishap is still something everyone thinks about when barricading. As a matter of fact, there is some thought that we will never see another barricade again. I personally think we will. |
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Carrier Captain is not going to want a flaming skidmark on his flight deck. He has lots of other aircraft to think about. Either ditch close to the ship, or zoom climb and pull the yellow handles. View Quote No power landings often turn out poorly on airfields. No way they're going to attempt it on a carrier |
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When I was at MM A school back in the 70s we watched some films from WWII of planes trying to land on carriers when the plans were shot up. Many "landings" didn't go well.
While in Subic Bay, PI, during 'Nam the planes would do "touch and go" practice for hours at a time. There were lines painted on the runway to mark off the same distance as they'd have on a carrier. I think it's a high skill set kind of thing with a plane that's 100%. |
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