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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:25:45 PM EDT
[#1]
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The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. what was the probable cause? A dog alert? the same type of dogs that have been shown to give false alerts upon handlers command ? The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Apparently you are unfamiliar with the term "four legged Ouija board". |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:26:19 PM EDT
[#2]
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Asset forfieture is bullshit  Not necessarily. Asset forfeiture prior to a conviction is bull shit. I have no problem with asset forfeiture after being convicted of a crime but only for assets involved with or purchased with proceeds of that crime. Example - Bernie Madoff's assets were seized and auctioned off after his conviction. I have no problem with this. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:29:18 PM EDT
[#3]
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I don't know how the whole "Forfeiture without conviction" got started and accepted to the point that it is.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good, I hope he gets his money back and his legal fees. There shouldn't`t be any qualified immunity in these cases for prosecutors or cops, and forfeiture shouldn`t occur until after a criminal conviction. I agree, hope they get raped hard in court, even if vic is guilty of something. No conviction, no forefiture, I don't know how the whole "Forfeiture without conviction" got started and accepted to the point that it is. See: War on Drugs |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:30:25 PM EDT
[#4]
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. I wish those dinosaurs ate you. Got a link to the Dino thread? I can't find it. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1757695_Saw_Jurassic_World_last_night.html&page=1#i54066299 holy shit. well, i guess someone has to be at the far left end of the curve. ar-jedi 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:36:28 PM EDT
[#5]
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Yes but asset forfeiture is not him bring deprived of life or liberty. You have an interesting definition of "liberty". |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:37:44 PM EDT
[#6]
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You have an interesting definition of "liberty". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes but asset forfeiture is not him bring deprived of life or liberty. You have an interesting definition of "liberty". Most of the people here on ARF do. Liberty only applies to the things they like/believe in. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:42:45 PM EDT
[#7]
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Most of the people here on ARF do. Liberty only applies to the things they like/believe in. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes but asset forfeiture is not him bring deprived of life or liberty. You have an interesting definition of "liberty". Most of the people here on ARF do. Liberty only applies to the things they like/believe in. Exactly. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:44:22 PM EDT
[#8]
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If that had been my cash somebody's house would be on fire. Not the best option I know Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Every person involved in seizing his property should have their houses and cars auctioned off and the money should be given to the victim. Not the best option I know They'd never get a vote to convict out of me for that, and then I'd reimburse you for the gasoline. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:44:52 PM EDT
[#9]
This is the type of shit people should be protesting about! That guy needs to make sure that those cops end up so fucked that they end up living in a cardboard box.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:47:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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 We are so fucked.  Are you just now figuring this out? (sarcasm) Millions of illegals. Education system is a joke. Liberals and leeches breeding like rabbits. Corrupt federal government. Trillions in debt, but giving billions of dollars to other countries while our infrastructure crumbles. Companies leaving the US in droves. I could go on and on. Yeah, I'd say your assumption is correct. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:49:16 PM EDT
[#11]
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So criminals should be able to keep the proceeds from their criminal activity, even if sentenced to jail? Please tell me that you at least believe they should have to pay taxes on their illegal income? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Asset forfieture is bullshit So criminals should be able to keep the proceeds from their criminal activity, even if sentenced to jail? Please tell me that you at least believe they should have to pay taxes on their illegal income? I missed the crime that was committed netting the $167,000? (by the citizen) |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:53:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Most classic cars are bought and sold in cash. I see up to 100,000 in cash a few time a year. Drive very, very, very carefully.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:55:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. Possessing a legal tender is not probable cause, nor is sporting a $100,000 car or wristwatch or a wife's $40,000 dollar ring, a collection of a $100,000 worth of gold numismatic coins or a stack of bearer bounds. Wealth can and is kept and transported in many, many forms everyday yet the trend is to seize someone's cash because only a wealth of cash is suspect, right. It is bullshit, it is theft, pure and simple and those carrying it out are thieves. This is you suggesting that because Americans fight and die in the battles of their nation that their nation shall remain pristine and incorruptible and thus safe from ever devolving to a state that meets a definition comparable to that of a Banana Republic. This is you suggesting that the freedom they were fighting for, that the founding fathers fought for, did not include being secure in one's possessions? The burden of proof is on the government, not the freedom enjoying individual, what a fucked up idea of freedom you seem to have. You fucking fail miserably at understanding and defining liberty, perhaps you should refrain from talking about it in the future. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:57:17 PM EDT
[#14]
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I do. I like stories where the seized money was to go to somebody's dying grandmother for a heart transplant operation or something, helps to up the outrage factor of the seizure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so what's the backstory on the $167,000? Lottery winnings, sale of a business, drug money? Who cares? I do. I like stories where the seized money was to go to somebody's dying grandmother for a heart transplant operation or something, helps to up the outrage factor of the seizure. Its easy to be a fair weather fan of the Constitution. The real mark of someone who supports it is when the victim of the government is a bad or questionable guy. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:58:38 PM EDT
[#15]
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The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. what was the probable cause? A dog alert? the same type of dogs that have been shown to give false alerts upon handlers command ? The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? No drugs were found and no charges were filed. They should have returned the cash the second the search revealed no evidence of illegal activity. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 9:59:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:It's "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". You don't get to knock parts off because they don't suit. Depriving someone of the use of their money for days, weeks, months, or, most likely, years certainly gets in the way of the pursuit of happiness. No, no I'm pretty sure you can still get abortion on demand. That's what the "pursuit of happiness" means right? 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:02:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish those dinosaurs ate you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. I wish those dinosaurs ate you. Thank God, Ronald Reagan came in to save the day:  |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:12:46 PM EDT
[#18]
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so what's the backstory on the $167,000? Lottery winnings, sale of a business, drug money? What fucking difference does it make? A genie could have popped out of a bottle and gave him three wishes. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:21:25 PM EDT
[#19]
What's worse?:
-some drug dealer keeps his money because they don't have a case? -we have a Police State? Those are the choices on this. Look, the War on Drugs has been going on for over forty years. Since Nixon. I don't like it, but we lost. Right now I'm much more concerned about the burgeoning police state. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:21:52 PM EDT
[#20]
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I find that offensive, sir. My grandpappy lost his left arm to an enemy calvary Velociraptor during Operation Congo Danger. My grandpappy wasn't shooting African calvarymen off of Raptor saddles for a "banana republic".
Thank God, Ronald Reagan came in to save the day: http://orig13.deviantart.net/b25c/f/2012/183/0/6/ronald_reagan_riding_a_velociraptor_by_sharpwriter-d55rsh7.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. I wish those dinosaurs ate you.
Thank God, Ronald Reagan came in to save the day: http://orig13.deviantart.net/b25c/f/2012/183/0/6/ronald_reagan_riding_a_velociraptor_by_sharpwriter-d55rsh7.jpg i'm still offended that that pic shows sir ronald armed with german and soviet weapons. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:23:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. what was the probable cause? A dog alert? the same type of dogs that have been shown to give false alerts upon handlers command ? The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? No, they're not, under the Constitution. But the government keeps looking to do end-runs around the Constitution. A drug dog's alert can NOT be independently verified as accurate or unbiased (ie, attempting to please the handler), so shouldn't be considered valid probable cause. Especially since, unless you get the money directly from the mint where it was printed, most money in circulation has traces of drug residue on it, so any large quantity of cash would have such traces even if the owner has zero involvement in drugs. As for having large sums of cash, that's what's known as "personal property", the burden of proof is on the government before they can seize a person's property, and they must do it through due process of law. Again, another end-run around the Constitution, and any official found participating in such attempts to avoid Constitutional restrictions on their actions should be stripped of all government positions, pay, and benefits for life. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:25:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Asset forfieture is bullshit This. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:28:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Police dogs should not be allowed as probable cause for a search.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:31:40 PM EDT
[#24]
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Police dogs should not be allowed as probable cause for a search. Indeed. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:38:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Police dogs should not be allowed as probable cause for a search. Especially since there's nothing probable about it. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:50:35 PM EDT
[#26]
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He always was an asshole. http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/aliens_classicscenes9.jpg That being said, he should have his money until it has been proven it was from crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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huh, that Gorman dude must have been on someones list. He always was an asshole. http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/aliens_classicscenes9.jpg That being said, he should have his money until it has been proven it was from crime. I don't get this crap about assumed guilty until proven innocent. That's a big problem I have with "confiscation". Not that I'm for it at all, but at least try to follow the constitution. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:51:18 PM EDT
[#27]
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Asset forfieture is bullshit It is worse than that! |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:59:16 PM EDT
[#28]
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Civil asset forfieture is mostly bullshit Fixed |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:25:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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If that had been my cash somebody's house would be on fire. Not the best option I know Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Every person involved in seizing his property should have their houses and cars auctioned off and the money should be given to the victim. Not the best option I know This. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:29:17 PM EDT
[#30]
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I don't get this crap about assumed guilty until proven innocent. That's a big problem I have with "confiscation". Not that I'm for it at all, but at least try to follow the constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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huh, that Gorman dude must have been on someones list. He always was an asshole. http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/aliens_classicscenes9.jpg That being said, he should have his money until it has been proven it was from crime. I don't get this crap about assumed guilty until proven innocent. That's a big problem I have with "confiscation". Not that I'm for it at all, but at least try to follow the constitution. It makes sense for captures at sea due to the practicalities involved, and that's the oldest example of this sort of law I can find in the American context (and it was a holdover from British law). Domestically, it's absurd outside of some limited contexts involving armed conflict on American soil (where some of the practicalities in the example cited previously apply as well). It is grossly detrimental to the right to property, one of the most essential rights of men and within the bounds of civilization. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:30:58 PM EDT
[#31]
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Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. How can someone's property be seized and forfeited when they weren't convicted of a crime? I think you need to do a bit more research..... It is just like when someone gets falsely arrested for carrying (when it isn't illegal) and then after it gets thrown out in court they never get their gun back or restitution for it because the police either won't return it or they destroyed it. Even though the victim is innocent. Plus as far as property being seized without any due process or conviction........... I hereby accuse mdk89 of being a drug dealer. 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:33:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. what was the probable cause? A dog alert? the same type of dogs that have been shown to give false alerts upon handlers command ? The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"?   Quoted:People have some funny ideas about Dinosaurs, that they only lived millions of years ago etc... Go to the jungles of africa and there are still some dinosaurs alive today.. One missionary in our church knows someone who saw a Triceratops in the Central African Republic. Creating mythology about dinosaurs is one way the devil tries to make evolution convincing. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:42:23 PM EDT
[#33]
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Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. That's a lot of talk for someone without a tank icon.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:44:30 PM EDT
[#34]
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i'm still offended that that pic shows sir ronald armed with german and soviet weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. I wish those dinosaurs ate you.
Thank God, Ronald Reagan came in to save the day: http://orig13.deviantart.net/b25c/f/2012/183/0/6/ronald_reagan_riding_a_velociraptor_by_sharpwriter-d55rsh7.jpg i'm still offended that that pic shows sir ronald armed with german and soviet weapons. I think he picked them up from some dead or wounded enemies after he ran out of ammo with his....... 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:57:55 PM EDT
[#35]
A county over the citizens put its sherrif in the unemployment line for his beliefs of asset forfeture. Just to much power and temptation. all the threads I fucking hate thieves.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:01:41 AM EDT
[#36]
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The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We live in the biggest god damn banana republic the world has ever seen. Are you really suggesting that the people who died fighting for our freedom were in vain, because someone got property seized with probable cause... Edgy. what was the probable cause? A dog alert? the same type of dogs that have been shown to give false alerts upon handlers command ? The drug dogs alert, combined with an unexplained large sum of money being transported are probable cause for search and seizure. He is now working it out in the courts. How does this make our country a "banana republic"? idk? a lot of cash has drugs on it. probably some of the cash in your pocket. but, again...it doesn't look like this guy had ANY drugs. should have been let go by the cops, with his money. Money is money. So what if this guy doesn't want to use a bank. So what. Government shouldn't be able to say "well, you can only have so much cash, you MUST use a bank, you MUST let us track it, etc" Fuck that shit. If you believe in that, you are not a fan of freedom. You are a fan of a heavy handed police state. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:10:55 AM EDT
[#37]
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Brought to you from the same brilliant mind that came up with this little gem
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People have some funny ideas about Dinosaurs, that they only lived millions of years ago etc... Go to the jungles of africa and there are still some dinosaurs alive today.. One missionary in our church knows someone who saw a Triceratops in the Central African Republic. Creating mythology about dinosaurs is one way the devil tries to make evolution convincing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brought to you from the same brilliant mind that came up with this little gem
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People have some funny ideas about Dinosaurs, that they only lived millions of years ago etc... Go to the jungles of africa and there are still some dinosaurs alive today.. One missionary in our church knows someone who saw a Triceratops in the Central African Republic. Creating mythology about dinosaurs is one way the devil tries to make evolution convincing. Have you ever been to sub saharan africa tropical regions (I've been to Gabon) and seen what it looks like? Or are you just getting triggered because people have seen things that TV/school/evolution cannot adequately explain? Remember the big Python hunt they had in Florida where thousands of people showed up and they barely got any snakes... Try not to discount things just because your evolution based education can't adequately explain it. The world is a big place. Would it be such a big deal to see a trilobite or ivory woodpecker? Nope. But one of the central tenants of evolution is that dinosaurs only live 65m years ago. So anyone who questions it has to be attacked and dragged out. That is why most people keep their mouth shut who have seen things. Evolution is in trouble in regards to dinosaurs anyway after some recent samples with intact soft bone marrow. 
Here's some interesting reading material for you http://cryptid.hubpages.com/hub/Mokele-Mbembe-and-Other-Dinosaurs-Still-Alive-in-Africa-Today It’s unclear how this could be possible, given the history of our planet, but the fact remains that local tribes in equatorial Africa know of large, frightening creatures living in the depths of the jungles. When researchers show the witnesses pictures of different animals, some living and some extinct, they routinely point to images of dinosaurs and claim that is what they saw. How could tribesmen who know nothing of other animal species located in distant parts of their own continent have knowledge of dinosaurs that existed 65 million years ago unless they had really seen them before? Is it possible that in very remote and largely unexplored sections of the African jungles a few dinosaur species managed to avoid extinction? Some researchers think there could be many prehistoric animals still around today, even though modern science tells us they are extinct. But if dinosaurs are still alive, that would be another class of amazing altogether! Many expeditions have ventured into the Congo region searching for tangible evidence of these creatures, only to leave disappointed. But these creatures are well-known to locals, and there is plenty of eyewitness testimony to go by. In the case I mentioned of the missionary from my church who was in the Central African Republic in the 90s, the locals described to him seeing exactly what we would call a triceratops. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:19:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryHave you ever been to sub saharan africa tropical regions (I've been to Gabon) and seen what it looks like? Or are you just getting triggered because people have seen things that TV/school/evolution cannot adequately explain? Remember the big Python hunt they had in Florida where thousands of people showed up and they barely got any snakes... Try not to discount things just because your evolution based education can't adequately explain it. The world is a big place. Would it be such a big deal to see a trilobite or ivory woodpecker? Nope. But one of the central tenants of evolution is that dinosaurs only live 65m years ago. So anyone who questions it has to be attacked and dragged out. That is why most people keep their mouth shut who have seen things. Evolution is in trouble in regards to dinosaurs anyway after some recent samples with intact soft bone marrow. Quote HistoryBrought to you from the same brilliant mind that came up with this little gem Quoted:People have some funny ideas about Dinosaurs, that they only lived millions of years ago etc... Go to the jungles of africa and there are still some dinosaurs alive today.. One missionary in our church knows someone who saw a Triceratops in the Central African Republic. Creating mythology about dinosaurs is one way the devil tries to make evolution convincing. Have you ever been to sub saharan africa tropical regions (I've been to Gabon) and seen what it looks like? Or are you just getting triggered because people have seen things that TV/school/evolution cannot adequately explain? Remember the big Python hunt they had in Florida where thousands of people showed up and they barely got any snakes... Try not to discount things just because your evolution based education can't adequately explain it. The world is a big place. Would it be such a big deal to see a trilobite or ivory woodpecker? Nope. But one of the central tenants of evolution is that dinosaurs only live 65m years ago. So anyone who questions it has to be attacked and dragged out. That is why most people keep their mouth shut who have seen things. Evolution is in trouble in regards to dinosaurs anyway after some recent samples with intact soft bone marrow.   |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:31:48 AM EDT
[#39]
hey mdk are you posting from burning man.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:34:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking sheisty thieving fucks. They did this because the courts ruled they can't detain longer than is necessary to conduct the stop in order to get a dog on scene. So instead they let him go and had a guy with a dog pull him over again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Gorman was driving across the country with a motorhome to see his girlfriend, and a Nevada Highway Patrol trooper first stopped the man as he headed west on Interstate 80 for driving too slowly in the passing lane. According to court documents, Gorman didn’t consent to a search of his vehicle, but the trooper sent him on his way without issuing any citations... Guilty! Good seize. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:45:29 AM EDT
[#41]
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See: War on Drugs Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good, I hope he gets his money back and his legal fees. There shouldn't`t be any qualified immunity in these cases for prosecutors or cops, and forfeiture shouldn`t occur until after a criminal conviction. I agree, hope they get raped hard in court, even if vic is guilty of something. No conviction, no forefiture, I don't know how the whole "Forfeiture without conviction" got started and accepted to the point that it is. See: War on Drugs He wasn't even charged with a crime. He's got something like $150k in legal fees trying to get his stolen money back. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:02:39 AM EDT
[#42]
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It makes sense for captures at sea due to the practicalities involved, and that's the oldest example of this sort of law I can find in the American context (and it was a holdover from British law). Domestically, it's absurd outside of some limited contexts involving armed conflict on American soil (where some of the practicalities in the example cited previously apply as well). It is grossly detrimental to the right to property, one of the most essential rights of men and within the bounds of civilization. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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huh, that Gorman dude must have been on someones list. He always was an asshole. http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/aliens_classicscenes9.jpg That being said, he should have his money until it has been proven it was from crime. I don't get this crap about assumed guilty until proven innocent. That's a big problem I have with "confiscation". Not that I'm for it at all, but at least try to follow the constitution. It makes sense for captures at sea due to the practicalities involved, and that's the oldest example of this sort of law I can find in the American context (and it was a holdover from British law). Domestically, it's absurd outside of some limited contexts involving armed conflict on American soil (where some of the practicalities in the example cited previously apply as well). It is grossly detrimental to the right to property, one of the most essential rights of men and within the bounds of civilization. No doubt. I haven't looked into it, or researched the topic. Where did this law first breech the bounds of inalienable rights domestically. Was it done on the Federal level, or state level first? What's the linage of this practice? How in the hell has it withstood judicial review? |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:06:29 AM EDT
[#43]
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No doubt. I haven't looked into it, or researched the topic. Where did this law first breech the bounds of inalienable rights domestically. Was it done on the Federal level, or state level first? What's the linage of this practice? How in the hell has it withstood judicial review? Reagan signed it into law when he was pushing the war on drugs. We're left with the Pandora's box. It was a huge tool for RICO cases. It sort of spun out of control after that. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:07:31 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So criminals should be able to keep the proceeds from their criminal activity, even if sentenced to jail? Please tell me that you at least believe they should have to pay taxes on their illegal income? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Asset forfieture is bullshit So criminals should be able to keep the proceeds from their criminal activity, even if sentenced to jail? Please tell me that you at least believe they should have to pay taxes on their illegal income? how do you know he is a criminal? |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:15:58 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:37:55 AM EDT
[#46]
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Have you ever been to sub saharan africa tropical regions (I've been to Gabon) and seen what it looks like? Or are you just getting triggered because people have seen things that TV/school/evolution cannot adequately explain? Remember the big Python hunt they had in Florida where thousands of people showed up and they barely got any snakes... Try not to discount things just because your evolution based education can't adequately explain it. The world is a big place. Would it be such a big deal to see a trilobite or ivory woodpecker? Nope. But one of the central tenants of evolution is that dinosaurs only live 65m years ago. So anyone who questions it has to be attacked and dragged out. That is why most people keep their mouth shut who have seen things. Evolution is in trouble in regards to dinosaurs anyway after some recent samples with intact soft bone marrow.
Here's some interesting reading material for you http://cryptid.hubpages.com/hub/Mokele-Mbembe-and-Other-Dinosaurs-Still-Alive-in-Africa-Today 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:23:19 AM EDT
[#47]
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No doubt. I haven't looked into it, or researched the topic. Where did this law first breech the bounds of inalienable rights domestically. Was it done on the Federal level, or state level first? What's the linage of this practice? How in the hell has it withstood judicial review? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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huh, that Gorman dude must have been on someones list. He always was an asshole. http://www.top10films.co.uk/img/aliens_classicscenes9.jpg That being said, he should have his money until it has been proven it was from crime. I don't get this crap about assumed guilty until proven innocent. That's a big problem I have with "confiscation". Not that I'm for it at all, but at least try to follow the constitution. It makes sense for captures at sea due to the practicalities involved, and that's the oldest example of this sort of law I can find in the American context (and it was a holdover from British law). Domestically, it's absurd outside of some limited contexts involving armed conflict on American soil (where some of the practicalities in the example cited previously apply as well). It is grossly detrimental to the right to property, one of the most essential rights of men and within the bounds of civilization. No doubt. I haven't looked into it, or researched the topic. Where did this law first breech the bounds of inalienable rights domestically. Was it done on the Federal level, or state level first? What's the linage of this practice? How in the hell has it withstood judicial review? Not sure about domestically. It is something that was permitted in some cases under British law (and there is stuff in the common law governing such proceedings). As far as I can tell the practice only survived after independence in the form of prize law passed by the States and Congress. In that case, a vessel could be seized and brought into port. A designated court or a special purpose prize court would convene and an in rem proceeding would commence against the vessel and its contents. The owner was required to prove that the ship was operating lawfully and was not subject to seizure; failing that, the vessel and its contents would be sold with the proceeds going to the crew(s) of the capturing vessel(s) and sometimes to the government; if the owner proved his case the property would be released to him. Since it was a civil proceeding, the owner and crew were typically not charged with any crimes related to the seizure. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:37:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Asset forfieture is bullshit In and of itself it's not bad. The problem is when you combine human weakness, greed and power, and combine it with money or sex and you will eventually get some corruption somewhere. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:39:02 AM EDT
[#49]
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It's "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". You don't get to knock parts off because they don't suit. Depriving someone of the use of their money for days, weeks, months, or, most likely, years certainly gets in the way of the pursuit of happiness. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes but asset forfeiture is not him bring deprived of life or liberty. Much like there are different standards of doubt in criminal vs civil cases. I am not defending the officers actions, but am pointing out that bashing the US is kind of missing the point. We are still a free nation and the court actually ruled in his favor. It's "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". You don't get to knock parts off because they don't suit. Depriving someone of the use of their money for days, weeks, months, or, most likely, years certainly gets in the way of the pursuit of happiness. What do people use their life and liberty to do? Oh, yeah... acquire property and do things that make them happy? 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 5:12:37 AM EDT
[#50]
Well, at least the dinosaur thing gave me a chuckle in an otherwise maddening topic.
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