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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:03:02 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:03:07 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:03:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
As most of you know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what better place to get information (i.e. trolled, mocked, and generally emasculated) than GD? Are desalinization plants just too cost prohibitive to build along the coastline to adjunct the water shortage in CA? Or evaporator systems but on a much larger scale like we had/have on warships? It's 1/2 that, and 1/2 enviroweenie/NIMBY. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:04:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Imagine that all oil drilling and petroleum refining was state-owned. I mean totally nationalized. A state-owned oil drilling and refining company. The price for everything related to oil and oil products is whatever the state says it is.
Now you tell me... how would they know whether or not it was cost-effective to build coal liquefaction plants or other kinds of synthetic petroleum production? |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:04:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Energy requirements with existing technology and local, state and federal regulations combined with cost and environmental issues equals no water for California.
It'll rain. Some day. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:06:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
As most of you know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what better place to get information (i.e. trolled, mocked, and generally emasculated) than GD? Are desalinization plants just too cost prohibitive to build along the coastline to adjunct the water shortage in CA? Or evaporator systems but on a much larger scale like we had/have on warships? They had some bright idea that they wanted to pipe fresh water from the Great Lakes to Kalifornistan. First and foremost: Fuck Kalifornistan. How about not living in a fucking desert that you transformed into a verdant paradise? Paradise isn't its natural state, and you cockmongers can fucking dessicate for all I care. You ruined your state, now you want to ruin everyone else. As abjectly stupid as that idea is, even that must not be as cost prohibitive as simple desalinization. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:07:53 PM EDT
[#7]
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it?
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:08:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Energy requirements with existing technology and local, state and federal regulations combined with cost and environmental issues equals no water for California. It'll rain. Some day. And when it rains I am willing to bet there will be problems with mudslides and flooding. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:09:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:10:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:10:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS If I understand correctly, you just need to drink it once to have it purified by your liver, then piss it out. After that it is safe for further consumption. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:10:44 PM EDT
[#12]
California has 17 desalination plants in the works, either partially constructed or through exploration and planning phases.[155] The list of locations includes Bay Point, in the Delta, Redwood City, seven in the Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay, Cambria, Oceaneo, Redondo Beach, Huntington Beach, Dana Point, Camp Pendleton, Oceanside and Carlsbad.[156]
Carlsbad: The Carlsbad desalination plant being constructed by Poseidon Resources will be the largest desalination plant in the United States when it goes online in 2016.[157] It is expected to produce 50 million gallons a day to 110,000 customers in San Diego County at an estimated cost of $1b. Concord: Planned to open in 2020, producing 20 million gallons a day.[155] Monterey County: Sand City, two miles north of Monterey, with a population of 334, is the only city in California completely supplied with water from a desalination plant. Santa Barbara: The Charles Meyer Desalination Facility was constructed in Santa Barbara, California, in 1991–92 as a temporary emergency water supply in response to severe drought.[158][159] While it has a high operating cost, the facility only needs to operate infrequently, allowing Santa Barbara to use its other supplies more extensively.[160][161]. The plant is expected to be re-activated in the summer of 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#United_States Not to oversimplify, but based on the Carlsbad plant at $1Billion for 110,000 customers, it would cost $353Billion to build desalination plants for California's entire population. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:12:31 PM EDT
[#13]
High energy costs...$2000-$2500 an acre foot.
How are you going to get water where it's needed...pipelines? Where are you going to store surplus if we get El Nino. IOW other remedies might be better, including better irrigation techniques, drought tolerant landscaping, Evporation barriers on reservoirs etc. Siting for large water storage structures are limited. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:12:36 PM EDT
[#14]
As far as I know (which ain't much), it's much cheaper and far more effective to dam up rivers, build reservoirs, dig canals and so forth. In fact, that's what they did very successfully for a very long time...
...until environmentalists and sympathetic legislators put a stop to it. It takes a while for the long term effects of a series of bad decisions to bear fruit. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:13:32 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Turboguy They had some bright idea that they wanted to pipe fresh water from the Great Lakes to Kalifornistan. First and foremost: Fuck Kalifornistan. How about not living in a fucking desert that you transformed into a verdant paradise? Paradise isn't its natural state, and you cockmongers can fucking dessicate for all I care. You ruined your state, now you want to ruin everyone else. As abjectly stupid as that idea is, even that must not be as cost prohibitive as simple desalinization. lol try decaf. And the northern half was never a desert. A large portion of the southern half used to have enormous wetlands that were drained and reclaimed as farm land. But yeah, there is a lot of desert down there. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:13:46 PM EDT
[#16]
The Feds are now wanting more water to be released from our dams for fish survival. They want to see a 30% flow increase in the rivers to help the salmon. The lakes are at record lows as it is!
Our water district is having to get their dam license renewed and a bunch of new stipulations are being added on to the renewal procedure. One of which is a 'ladder' of sorts which will allow salmon to be released more freely. This 'ladder' will cost upwards of 100-150 million and help aprox 100k fish. So the Feds want our district to spend about 100 per fish. If it's not done the license for the dam won't be renewed. There are desal plants going on line shortly, one of which is in southern CA. Now if only the Bay Area would get a desal plant online, maybe we can keep our water in northern CA. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:14:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. There are people working on it. I few years ago I worked for a company developing forward osmosis. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:14:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:15:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And when it rains I am willing to bet there will be problems with mudslides and flooding. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Energy requirements with existing technology and local, state and federal regulations combined with cost and environmental issues equals no water for California. It'll rain. Some day. And when it rains I am willing to bet there will be problems with mudslides and flooding. Yeah. And that's okay. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:16:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: California has 17 desalination plants in the works, either partially constructed or through exploration and planning phases.[155] The list of locations includes Bay Point, in the Delta, Redwood City, seven in the Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay, Cambria, Oceaneo, Redondo Beach, Huntington Beach, Dana Point, Camp Pendleton, Oceanside and Carlsbad.[156] Carlsbad: The Carlsbad desalination plant being constructed by Poseidon Resources will be the largest desalination plant in the United States when it goes online in 2016.[157] It is expected to produce 50 million gallons a day to 110,000 customers in San Diego County at an estimated cost of $1b. Concord: Planned to open in 2020, producing 20 million gallons a day.[155] Monterey County: Sand City, two miles north of Monterey, with a population of 334, is the only city in California completely supplied with water from a desalination plant. Santa Barbara: The Charles Meyer Desalination Facility was constructed in Santa Barbara, California, in 1991–92 as a temporary emergency water supply in response to severe drought.[158][159] While it has a high operating cost, the facility only needs to operate infrequently, allowing Santa Barbara to use its other supplies more extensively.[160][161]. The plant is expected to be re-activated in the summer of 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#United_States Not to oversimplify, but based on the Carlsbad plant at $1Billion for 110,000 customers, it would cost $353Billion to build desalination plants for California's entire population. Thanks. Whats the over and under on the Pacific becoming the largest desert on the planet after these desalinization plants are done?  |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:16:10 PM EDT
[#21]
In 2007, desalination was running in the 3-4 $/gal range. Not sure what costs look like today, though.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:16:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. Drilling wells and fracking. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:16:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall?
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:17:39 PM EDT
[#24]
literally couldn't care less.
easy problem cheaply solved but the greenies and socialists demand people (and the land) must suffer. if someone made me king I'd build a string of GEN IV nuclear reactors in safe spots to power desalination plants up and down the coast, I'd lighten water usage restrictions, I'd build more dams and reservoirs. I'd have cheap power, plenty of water, and dominate the salt market all in one fell swoop. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:17:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? Just wait till it rains before crossing. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:18:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? I have no idea but the poster went into pretty good depth. You can't pump it back in the sea cause you'll kill the fish. Wait! Pump it into Detroit! |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:19:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are people working on it. I few years ago I worked for a company developing forward osmosis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. There are people working on it. I few years ago I worked for a company developing forward osmosis. I'm sure they are. Even the Soviet Union usually had bread on the shelves of state-owned stores. That doesn't mean it's going to be done nearly as effectively and responsively as it would be if free market pricing were allowed to dictate production. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:19:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. Sell the salty sludge to the Midwestern and Northeastern states for use on our roads in the winter & profit! |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:20:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS It's actually very energy intensive. The only way to get salt out of water (that i know of) is to distill it. In essence, you have to boil every ounce of water that the entire city / state / whatever uses. Water has a very high heat of vaporization, meaning it takes a great deal of energy to vaporize it. As an experiment, put a gallon of water in a pot, set it on the stove, crank it up to high, amd see how long it takes to completely disappear. Not boil, completely vaporize. That's what you have to do to every gallon of water going to the city. On my phone, but the calculations for energy required are pretty simple, and the amount of power needed would be absurd. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:20:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
California has 17 desalination plants in the works, either partially constructed or through exploration and planning phases.[155] The list of locations includes Bay Point, in the Delta, Redwood City, seven in the Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay, Cambria, Oceaneo, Redondo Beach, Huntington Beach, Dana Point, Camp Pendleton, Oceanside and Carlsbad.[156] Carlsbad: The Carlsbad desalination plant being constructed by Poseidon Resources will be the largest desalination plant in the United States when it goes online in 2016.[157] It is expected to produce 50 million gallons a day to 110,000 customers in San Diego County at an estimated cost of $1b. Concord: Planned to open in 2020, producing 20 million gallons a day.[155] Monterey County: Sand City, two miles north of Monterey, with a population of 334, is the only city in California completely supplied with water from a desalination plant. Santa Barbara: The Charles Meyer Desalination Facility was constructed in Santa Barbara, California, in 1991–92 as a temporary emergency water supply in response to severe drought.[158][159] While it has a high operating cost, the facility only needs to operate infrequently, allowing Santa Barbara to use its other supplies more extensively.[160][161]. The plant is expected to be re-activated in the summer of 2016. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination#United_States Hmmm. That's $10,000 per "customer" in San Diego County. If there are four "customers" per household, they've spent $40,000 per residence. They could have them $30,000 to move elsewhere, raze the buildings and let the land go primitive, and save money. Not to oversimplify, but based on the Carlsbad plant at $1Billion for 110,000 customers, it would cost $353Billion to build desalination plants for California's entire population. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:21:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sell the salty sludge to the Midwestern and Northeastern states for use on our roads in the winter & profit! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. Sell the salty sludge to the Midwestern and Northeastern states for use on our roads in the winter & profit! That's something they probably would do. Fuck California. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:21:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had some bright idea that they wanted to pipe fresh water from the Great Lakes to Kalifornistan. First and foremost: Fuck Kalifornistan. How about not living in a fucking desert that you transformed into a verdant paradise? Paradise isn't its natural state, and you cockmongers can fucking dessicate for all I care. You ruined your state, now you want to ruin everyone else. As abjectly stupid as that idea is, even that must not be as cost prohibitive as simple desalinization. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As most of you know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what better place to get information (i.e. trolled, mocked, and generally emasculated) than GD? Are desalinization plants just too cost prohibitive to build along the coastline to adjunct the water shortage in CA? Or evaporator systems but on a much larger scale like we had/have on warships? They had some bright idea that they wanted to pipe fresh water from the Great Lakes to Kalifornistan. First and foremost: Fuck Kalifornistan. How about not living in a fucking desert that you transformed into a verdant paradise? Paradise isn't its natural state, and you cockmongers can fucking dessicate for all I care. You ruined your state, now you want to ruin everyone else. As abjectly stupid as that idea is, even that must not be as cost prohibitive as simple desalinization. Actually, most of CA was that verdant paradise. Huge population explosion coupled with liberal enviromental issues refused to build any more refineries, nuclear plants or desalinization plants. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:22:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Salt ions are very small and stubborn to remove from water. It requires the most robust types of removal, such as distillation or reverse osmosis.
Both types of treatment require tremendous amounts of energy compared to other typical water treatment methods, such as slow sand filtration. With distillation, it requires tremendous heat energy, with RO, it requires tremendous electrical energy to drive the pumps that pressurize the water high enough to squeeze through the semi-permeable membranes. With both methods, there remains a concentrated waste stream of salt that is toxic and must be disposed of somewhere. Mother nature purifies water the best. That requires movement through the hydrogeological cycle. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:24:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's actually very energy intensive. The only way to get salt out of water (that i know of) is to distill it. In essence, you have to boil every ounce of water that the entire city / state / whatever uses. Water has a very high heat of vaporization, meaning it takes a great deal of energy to vaporize it. As an experiment, put a gallon of water in a pot, set it on the stove, crank it up to high, amd see how long it takes to completely disappear. Not boil, completely vaporize. That's what you have to do to every gallon of water going to the city. On my phone, but the calculations for energy required are pretty simple, and the amount of power needed would be absurd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS It's actually very energy intensive. The only way to get salt out of water (that i know of) is to distill it. In essence, you have to boil every ounce of water that the entire city / state / whatever uses. Water has a very high heat of vaporization, meaning it takes a great deal of energy to vaporize it. As an experiment, put a gallon of water in a pot, set it on the stove, crank it up to high, amd see how long it takes to completely disappear. Not boil, completely vaporize. That's what you have to do to every gallon of water going to the city. On my phone, but the calculations for energy required are pretty simple, and the amount of power needed would be absurd. Or basically filter it with reverse osmosis. But that also requires a lot of energy. Forward osmosis uses a very concentrated draw solution that basically sucks the fresh water through the membrane rather than using pump pressure to force it through, requiring a lot less energy. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:24:40 PM EDT
[#35]
California actually knew this was coming and had many opportunities to build reservoirs and dams and infrastructure to deal with the water shortage. All were shot down over the years because of environmental concerns.
now that they are in a state of emergency, they are acting. I'm waiting for the global uproar of the oceans becoming too salty because of all the water being removed from them or some other bs that will attributed to the desalinization plants being built. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:25:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Water is different than most other commodities, in that supply & demand don't necessarily control the "price". Am busy today to get too deep into this, but a scarce resource, which is a necessity for the commons, operates much differently than say oil. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:27:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Probably easier to genetically modify fruit and nuts to grow in saltwater.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:28:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? Not hard at all. Israel does it just fine. The problem is that NOTHING can get done in CA because of all the regulation and batshit crazy leftist environazis |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:29:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I understand correctly, you just need to drink it once to have it purified by your liver, then piss it out. After that it is safe for further consumption. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS If I understand correctly, you just need to drink it once to have it purified by your liver, then piss it out. After that it is safe for further consumption. If it's too expensive for California to do that/figure out a way, then they don't really need it |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:29:09 PM EDT
[#40]
No fear. El Nino is on the way.
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:29:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. Continue to pull water off until it's a solid. Sell the salt to PennDoT. After the first snow in Pennsylvania you won't be able to find a 50lb bag of salt anywhere. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:29:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. The problem is that cost doesn't matter because there is no opportunity, it could cost a dollar a plant and they still wouldn't be built because of the environuts. They actually HAVE desalination plants that were built, they still have, but we're never turned on, and still aren't being turned on. Why? Because of the Eco freaks, it seems that the plants might dump salt... Into the ocean... Yeah, that is the morons they are dealing with, that is why they do not use desalination. Could it be done economically? Sure, you could even solve three problems at once: make them nuclear powered, the heat from the reactors would boil the water which would be used to cool the reactors (a reactor is a sealed system, the contaminated water never leaves the reactor, the clean water coolant pool that coils the reactor coolant pipes is what I am talking about, the stuff that is normally wasted as steam from the top of the coolant tower), the reactors in turn could consume reprocessed fuel rods which not only would be cheaper than using new fuel rods but would cut down the nuclear waste stockpile, meanwhile the desalination plants would not only produce clean water (as a byproduct) but would also provide the state, and country, with loads of cheap clean energy. As a bonus we even get more weapons grade material for the new bombs we should be building but aren't. The environuts however block every part of that plan, they want no desalination plants, no reactors, and no reprocessing of spent fuel rods. So we get a dried out overpopulated state, higher produce prices, piles of nuclear waste we don't know what to do with and coal plants providing most of our expensive electricity all while polluting the air, all of course in the name of "the environment." |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:32:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: As most of you know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what better place to get information (i.e. trolled, mocked, and generally emasculated) than GD? Are desalinization plants just too cost prohibitive to build along the coastline to adjunct the water shortage in CA? Or evaporator systems but on a much larger scale like we had/have on warships? ETA: Why is there a shoe advertisement under my OP? Desalination requires a large amount of energy. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:34:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, most of CA was that verdant paradise. Huge population explosion coupled with liberal enviromental issues refused to build any more refineries, nuclear plants or desalinization plants. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
As most of you know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so what better place to get information (i.e. trolled, mocked, and generally emasculated) than GD? Are desalinization plants just too cost prohibitive to build along the coastline to adjunct the water shortage in CA? Or evaporator systems but on a much larger scale like we had/have on warships? They had some bright idea that they wanted to pipe fresh water from the Great Lakes to Kalifornistan. First and foremost: Fuck Kalifornistan. How about not living in a fucking desert that you transformed into a verdant paradise? Paradise isn't its natural state, and you cockmongers can fucking dessicate for all I care. You ruined your state, now you want to ruin everyone else. As abjectly stupid as that idea is, even that must not be as cost prohibitive as simple desalinization. Actually, most of CA was that verdant paradise. Huge population explosion coupled with liberal enviromental issues refused to build any more refineries, nuclear plants or desalinization plants. I'd place more blame on it being an unintended consequence of the CO River compact and failure to implement a prior appropriation based water right system like the other Western states. Why invest, make tough choices, and give power to the citizens when can maximize the lower basin's allocation and increase historical consumptive use for compact negotiations? |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:35:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or basically filter it with reverse osmosis. But that also requires a lot of energy. Forward osmosis uses a very concentrated draw solution that basically sucks the fresh water through the membrane rather than using pump pressure to force it through, requiring a lot less energy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? THIS It's actually very energy intensive. The only way to get salt out of water (that i know of) is to distill it. In essence, you have to boil every ounce of water that the entire city / state / whatever uses. Water has a very high heat of vaporization, meaning it takes a great deal of energy to vaporize it. As an experiment, put a gallon of water in a pot, set it on the stove, crank it up to high, amd see how long it takes to completely disappear. Not boil, completely vaporize. That's what you have to do to every gallon of water going to the city. On my phone, but the calculations for energy required are pretty simple, and the amount of power needed would be absurd. Or basically filter it with reverse osmosis. But that also requires a lot of energy. Forward osmosis uses a very concentrated draw solution that basically sucks the fresh water through the membrane rather than using pump pressure to force it through, requiring a lot less energy. Or put the water in a vacuum that lowers the heat required to boil it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:35:25 PM EDT
[#46]
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Water is different than most other commodities, in that supply & demand don't necessarily control the "price". Am busy today to get too deep into this, but a scarce resource, which is a necessity for the commons, operates much differently than say oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Water is different than most other commodities, in that supply & demand don't necessarily control the "price". Am busy today to get too deep into this, but a scarce resource, which is a necessity for the commons, operates much differently than say oil. I used my state-owned oil company analogy in my first post on this thread for a reason. The reason being, that in countries where it is a state-owned commodity, they justify it for the exact reason people justify state-owned water here. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:37:42 PM EDT
[#47]
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Water is different than most other commodities, in that supply & demand don't necessarily control the "price". Am busy today to get too deep into this, but a scarce resource, which is a necessity for the commons, operates much differently than say oil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? How much does it cost? What is the market price of water? If the price of water were allowed to rise high enough, people would start businesses to do exactly that. Of course someone will be along shortly to tell me that water doesn't work like other commodities. That free markets can't be allowed to determine the price of something *gasp* critical to life. Water is different than most other commodities, in that supply & demand don't necessarily control the "price". Am busy today to get too deep into this, but a scarce resource, which is a necessity for the commons, operates much differently than say oil. this post makes me happy--some people get it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:41:01 PM EDT
[#48]
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Not hard at all. Israel does it just fine. The problem is that NOTHING can get done in CA because of all the regulation and batshit crazy leftist environazis Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How hard is it to take the salt out of ocean water and purify it? Not hard at all. Israel does it just fine. The problem is that NOTHING can get done in CA because of all the regulation and batshit crazy leftist environazis The Israel plant was a monumental task for them to undertake and their concentrated waste stream was a huge issue. They are slightly different, as their entire civilization is dependent on a stable water supply. Their old surface water source, which flowed through enemy lands, was deemed unstable to bet their future on. We are not dependent on almonds for survival and with no real water right system in place to protect rural interests, the fields will be barren before CA lets its cities run dry. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:43:27 PM EDT
[#49]
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What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Someone answered this on here once. They said yes you can build the plants, but you are left with this salty unusable sludge afterwards. The amount of water needed would create mountains of this toxic sludge. Where do you put the sludge? I say pipe it to mexico. What makes it unusable? Can it be made into bricks and stacked into the shape of a border wall? Isnt a gel form of salt really good at storing heat? Why not ise ot for some form of thermal generator or something. |
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Posted: 8/18/2015 3:44:32 PM EDT
[#50]
There is at least one large municipal reverse osmosis plant in the eastern US that desalinates brackish water.
They deal with the concentrated brine stream by discharging to lagoons, which are then periodically drained and the solids (salt) scraped up hauled off to a landfill. Given that's just brackish water and not straight up salty ass ocean water but the same process can probably work and not kill the oceans. |
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