User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 6:15:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Start from here and begin reading his collected posts:
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 6:21:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Try 5 or 10 shot groups and then see how consistent it is.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 6:23:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Hot barrel
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 6:24:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Assuming there is no operator error, the system is only as strong as the weakest link. There's not enough information to determine your problem over the internet. How long a distance are these groups shot? 3 shots really don't make a group. I'm going to go out on a limb, and say you don't have a .25MOA gun, that would be pretty special if it was. .75 to 1 MOA is more likely the best you're going to do especially shooting factory loads. This is what I'm thinking... Shoot some 5-10 round groups and watch things even out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 6:31:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 round groups.  This. You can't expect 3 round groups to tell you your rifle's capability. 5 at minimum and 10 is better. For example, I just rebarreled a Winchester 22-250 with a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel. I trued up the action, I lapped the bolt, and I shot the following groups while testing loads with neck sized brass fireformed to that chamber. Here were the first four shots: 
I shoot those four rounds and I think "holy fuck, homerun." But I don't stop and say that now I have a .1 MOA rifle. I shoot the fifth shot. 
Now my .1 group has turned into something more like a .5 group. But wait, there's more to do. I'm going to adjust my scope 1" up and shoot another 5 shot group of the same test load. 
Now wait a fucking minute what the fuck? Right? That looks like shit. Well... 
.492 MOA and .644 MOA respectively. .568 MOA average. Can this rifle do better? Probably. I have a distinct feeling that it's relatively light weight and heavy trigger are causing me to throw some user error into it. But of all the loads I tried that day, I know this one is right about the sweet spot. I still wouldn't call it a .5 MOA rifle. Not until I see a consistent average of groups that's <.5. I guarantee that as I shoot this, I'll have many three round groups that look like my first 4 shots. That doesn't mean it's within the rifle, or my, capabilities. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:23:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rifle has shown that it's capable of it, the shooter is the weak link in the equation. It's easy to buy a sub-minute rifle, it's not easy to be a sub-minute shooter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you have a 1MOA rifle, and that's a problem?  Barrel I purchased guarantees sub MOA. It's an Ultramatch barrel. Nothing ultra or matchy about it.  The rifle has shown that it's capable of it, the shooter is the weak link in the equation. It's easy to buy a sub-minute rifle, it's not easy to be a sub-minute shooter. I've shot sub MOA with my previous rifle and I can shoot alright. I earned my Appleseed patch in 1 day. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:26:39 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If your ability to draw a circle and your ability to pull a trigger smoothly are in any way indicative of each other, I'd take pause before passing judgement on the rifle.  Those groupings are from my friend, the Marine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:27:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But, you're putting a variable scope on to remove a variable????
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Try different glass for the hell of it. Or a different mount. See if you can find a Leupold Mk4 to try on it. I have 2 on 2 of my .50s and love them. I have a redfield 3-9 that's reliable. I'll try it to eliminate a variable. Thanks. But, you're putting a variable scope on to remove a variable????
I know the scope works. Used it on 3 rifles with no hiccups. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:33:42 PM EDT
[#9]
what trigger do you have in it?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:35:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those groupings are from my friend, the Marine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If your ability to draw a circle and your ability to pull a trigger smoothly are in any way indicative of each other, I'd take pause before passing judgement on the rifle. Those groupings are from my friend, the Marine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:40:02 PM EDT
[#11]
You think being a marine makes him a precision shooter?
I was having a shit ton of trouble with one of my precision AR's. I thought about changing barrels, worked up loads, etc. when I finally settled down and shot the rifle properly it gave me several MOA and a 1/2 minute group. Turns out that the difference in my shooting weekly and monthly makes a big difference in how I pull a trigger. Focus on pulling the trigger straight back to the grip, work on your breathing and follow through with your trigger until contact has been made. AR's are a different game from bolt guns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 7:40:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hot barrel This is what I was thinking. If you don't shoot SLOOOOOOW and let the barrel cool thoroughly between groups, you are chasing your tail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:32:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think being a marine makes him a precision shooter? I was having a shit ton of trouble with one of my precision AR's. I thought about changing barrels, worked up loads, etc. when I finally settled down and shot the rifle properly it gave me several MOA and a 1/2 minute group. Turns out that the difference in my shooting weekly and monthly makes a big difference in how I pull a trigger. Focus on pulling the trigger straight back to the grip, work on your breathing and follow through with your trigger until contact has been made. AR's are a different game from bolt guns. Maybe if this is repeated sufficiently it will take.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:33:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Should've bought a noveske.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:38:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what trigger do you have in it? Rock River Arms 2 stage trigger. I know it's not a geissele but I had to draw a limit somewhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:39:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think being a marine makes him a precision shooter? I was having a shit ton of trouble with one of my precision AR's. I thought about changing barrels, worked up loads, etc. when I finally settled down and shot the rifle properly it gave me several MOA and a 1/2 minute group. Turns out that the difference in my shooting weekly and monthly makes a big difference in how I pull a trigger. Focus on pulling the trigger straight back to the grip, work on your breathing and follow through with your trigger until contact has been made. AR's are a different game from bolt guns. It's looking that way. My Marine friend was a 2nd opinion. His shooting mimicked mine. Which makes me not crazy or both of us are terrible shots. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:42:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Here is my rifle: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/AR308_zpsu9lpx9iq.jpg .308 caliber Rainier Arms Ultramatch 20" barrel. Aero M5 upper/lower AIM surplus nitride BCG Magpul UBR stock RRA 2 stage trigger 14" Fortis SWITCH rail (free floating) Slash's buffer and spring Primary Arms 4-14x ACSS 30mm scope I'm getting some great groups then groupings go to shit. In the pics, you will see a nice 3 shot .25 MOA grouping, then the gun jumps to 3/4 to 1 MOA. I used Federal Gold Medal Match in 175 and 168gr. Scope is locked in solid. Bolt headspace a with the barrel. What's going on? http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/90195753-45D1-40B5-925C-C480A3DACC46_zpsprn93i3m.jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/A98422BC-CDBC-45CE-BBB6-20F6EAE6596D_zpsdmfjcfbr.jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/CD3B997F-44BA-4D54-90D3-88A9FD090B35_zps9zgswiub.jpg I was having this weird problem happen. I'd get a nice group then another group of the same ammo would fly around. I had my Marine friend shoot it and he had the same problem. He would get a nice group then the next group would go to shit. He made fun of me and said it was probably me shooting poorly, but he got the same results after he shot it.  Could it be the scope? It's the weakest link. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:43:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have a 1MOA gun. 1MOA guns throw sub MOA 3 round groups very often. My SR25 is a 3/4 MOA gun When I shoot it its a 1 MOA gun Shoot is a few weeks from a good prone supported position and See if it gets better. Groups arent that bad IMO, if it's your first gas 308 might just take a bit to get Use to it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 8:50:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is what I was thinking. If you don't shoot SLOOOOOOW and let the barrel cool thoroughly between groups, you are chasing your tail. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hot barrel This is what I was thinking. If you don't shoot SLOOOOOOW and let the barrel cool thoroughly between groups, you are chasing your tail. I was thinking hot barrel as well. Do you have a lead sled to strap it down to? That would take out most of the possible human error. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:13:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rock River Arms 2 stage trigger. I know it's not a geissele but I had to draw a limit somewhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
what trigger do you have in it? Rock River Arms 2 stage trigger. I know it's not a geissele but I had to draw a limit somewhere. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON BUILDING THIS GUN AND DECIDED THE TRIGGER WAS WHERE YOU GOT CHEAP
I'm building the same gun with a different barrel, I know what it cost to build it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:29:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's your twist rate? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here is my rifle: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/AR308_zpsu9lpx9iq.jpg .308 caliber Rainier Arms Ultramatch 20" barrel. Aero M5 upper/lower AIM surplus nitride BCG Magpul UBR stock RRA 2 stage trigger 14" Fortis SWITCH rail (free floating) Slash's buffer and spring Primary Arms 4-14x ACSS 30mm scope I'm getting some great groups then groupings go to shit. In the pics, you will see a nice 3 shot .25 MOA grouping, then the gun jumps to 3/4 to 1 MOA. I used Federal Gold Medal Match in 175 and 168gr. Scope is locked in solid. Bolt headspace a with the barrel. What's going on? http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/90195753-45D1-40B5-925C-C480A3DACC46_zpsprn93i3m.jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/A98422BC-CDBC-45CE-BBB6-20F6EAE6596D_zpsdmfjcfbr.jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/CD3B997F-44BA-4D54-90D3-88A9FD090B35_zps9zgswiub.jpg I was having this weird problem happen. I'd get a nice group then another group of the same ammo would fly around. I had my Marine friend shoot it and he had the same problem. He would get a nice group then the next group would go to shit. He made fun of me and said it was probably me shooting poorly, but he got the same results after he shot it.
Could it be the scope? It's the weakest link. 1 in 10" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:31:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON BUILDING THIS GUN AND DECIDED THE TRIGGER WAS WHERE YOU GOT CHEAP
I'm building the same gun with a different barrel, I know what it cost to build it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
what trigger do you have in it? Rock River Arms 2 stage trigger. I know it's not a geissele but I had to draw a limit somewhere. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON BUILDING THIS GUN AND DECIDED THE TRIGGER WAS WHERE YOU GOT CHEAP
I'm building the same gun with a different barrel, I know what it cost to build it. Trigger can and will be upgraded later. This is my 2nd RRA. For how infrequently I shoot, it'll last me a couple years, by then I'll have enough cash to upgrade. Same with scope. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:34:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was thinking hot barrel as well. Do you have a lead sled to strap it down to? That would take out most of the possible human error. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hot barrel This is what I was thinking. If you don't shoot SLOOOOOOW and let the barrel cool thoroughly between groups, you are chasing your tail. I was thinking hot barrel as well. Do you have a lead sled to strap it down to? That would take out most of the possible human error. Shot 20 match rounds in 2 hours. It's 95-102 outside, but there was plenty of time between shots to cool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:44:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. You can't expect 3 round groups to tell you your rifle's capability. 5 at minimum and 10 is better. For example, I just rebarreled a Winchester 22-250 with a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel. I trued up the action, I lapped the bolt, and I shot the following groups while testing loads with neck sized brass fireformed to that chamber. Here were the first four shots: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/92d1a476-fbf1-4ca6-acb2-7ff325bbcf81_zpsjcluguxd.jpg I shoot those four rounds and I think "holy fuck, homerun." But I don't stop and say that now I have a .1 MOA rifle. I shoot the fifth shot. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/de5c78b9-c0a0-41da-886f-40e080915a23_zpsysk3wclu.jpg Now my .1 group has turned into something more like a .5 group. But wait, there's more to do. I'm going to adjust my scope 1" up and shoot another 5 shot group of the same test load. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/a2721eff-4c02-4e25-820a-5df841ff040c_zpsysqec6qq.jpg Now wait a fucking minute what the fuck? Right? That looks like shit. Well... http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/Capture_zpsk1djqea5.jpg .492 MOA and .644 MOA respectively. .568 MOA average. Can this rifle do better? Probably. I have a distinct feeling that it's relatively light weight and heavy trigger are causing me to throw some user error into it. But of all the loads I tried that day, I know this one is right about the sweet spot. I still wouldn't call it a .5 MOA rifle. Not until I see a consistent average of groups that's <.5. I guarantee that as I shoot this, I'll have many three round groups that look like my first 4 shots. That doesn't mean it's within the rifle, or my, capabilities. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
3 round groups. This. You can't expect 3 round groups to tell you your rifle's capability. 5 at minimum and 10 is better. For example, I just rebarreled a Winchester 22-250 with a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel. I trued up the action, I lapped the bolt, and I shot the following groups while testing loads with neck sized brass fireformed to that chamber. Here were the first four shots: http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/92d1a476-fbf1-4ca6-acb2-7ff325bbcf81_zpsjcluguxd.jpg I shoot those four rounds and I think "holy fuck, homerun." But I don't stop and say that now I have a .1 MOA rifle. I shoot the fifth shot. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/de5c78b9-c0a0-41da-886f-40e080915a23_zpsysk3wclu.jpg Now my .1 group has turned into something more like a .5 group. But wait, there's more to do. I'm going to adjust my scope 1" up and shoot another 5 shot group of the same test load. http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/a2721eff-4c02-4e25-820a-5df841ff040c_zpsysqec6qq.jpg Now wait a fucking minute what the fuck? Right? That looks like shit. Well... http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn203/kuraki556/Capture_zpsk1djqea5.jpg .492 MOA and .644 MOA respectively. .568 MOA average. Can this rifle do better? Probably. I have a distinct feeling that it's relatively light weight and heavy trigger are causing me to throw some user error into it. But of all the loads I tried that day, I know this one is right about the sweet spot. I still wouldn't call it a .5 MOA rifle. Not until I see a consistent average of groups that's <.5. I guarantee that as I shoot this, I'll have many three round groups that look like my first 4 shots. That doesn't mean it's within the rifle, or my, capabilities. True. However, when testing loads in .3 grain increments, I would reload 5-10 rounds of the tightest group. Then I would make an assessment on the rifle's accuracy. Still, it's bad if I can't even group 3. Maybe I should just sell it and buy another bolt, I shot those much easier. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:46:41 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Srsly tho, OP; Which groups were done with what ammo, and what was the distance shot at? Simply changing ammo can open or shrink groups. This x 1000 |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:48:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Take your time, shoot at 100 yards, try several different brands of ammunition, varying weights and shoot 5 groups of 5 rounds or more and you will have a more accurate representation of what your rifle and you as a shooter are capable of. /thread |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:54:37 PM EDT
[#27]
I shoot good enough.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 9:57:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Shooting .308 gas guns for consistent groups is much harder than a bolt gun so I would give it some more time to get used to the gun.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 10:03:03 PM EDT
[#29]
I suggest you get an anti-cant device so you can remove one more variable from the equation. Guns with more recoil are harder to shoot consistently and one aspect of that is the tilt of the gun changes and must be readjusted after each shot.
A few degrees of tilt left or right can make more difference than you realize, especially at 800+ yards |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 10:06:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Also, never shoot the last round in the magazine. Always have a few more in the mag after you finish each group. With the last round there is different friction on the bolt and can cause the bullet to seat harder/softer in the chamber.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 10:09:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot good enough. <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg</a> Sorry, but that's not that good. I never shot anything but 5s on dog targets at an actual 200M rapid fire, and that's with an M16 that has a crappy trigger and longer lock time than the typical .22 used at an Appleseed. If you can't get all 5s on that target, I wouldn't expect you to shoot sub-MOA groups consistently. As other people have tried to explain in this thread, the AR has a longer lock time and requires perfect form with good follow-through. Practice dry firing, then try again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 10:32:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe if this is repeated sufficiently it will take. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You think being a marine makes him a precision shooter? I was having a shit ton of trouble with one of my precision AR's. I thought about changing barrels, worked up loads, etc. when I finally settled down and shot the rifle properly it gave me several MOA and a 1/2 minute group. Turns out that the difference in my shooting weekly and monthly makes a big difference in how I pull a trigger. Focus on pulling the trigger straight back to the grip, work on your breathing and follow through with your trigger until contact has been made. AR's are a different game from bolt guns. Maybe if this is repeated sufficiently it will take. Its all this, I had an LWRC REPR that was an unforgiving bitch to bad form. But when you got your form perfect, it'd shoot lights out. I then decided that semi gas gun learning curve was a bit steeper than i wanted to deal with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 10:45:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Barrel I purchased guarantees sub MOA. It's an Ultramatch barrel. Nothing ultra or matchy about it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you have a 1MOA rifle, and that's a problem? Barrel I purchased guarantees sub MOA. It's an Ultramatch barrel. Nothing ultra or matchy about it. Sub MOA may mean .999 MOA which for all purposes is 1 MOA. And that's with the rifle clamped in a vise. Since you are not perfect, your groups will on average be > MOA |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 11:05:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, kinda figured. 
They are completely and utterly unforgiving of poor technique. Your fundamentals must be 100% dialed in when shooting them, especially if it's a lighter version like this one. I don't believe there's anything particularly wrong with the gun, it's just how they are. They shoot very well, but the learning curve is steep. I would suggest a lot of dry firing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My first big AR. Ah, kinda figured.
They are completely and utterly unforgiving of poor technique. Your fundamentals must be 100% dialed in when shooting them, especially if it's a lighter version like this one. I don't believe there's anything particularly wrong with the gun, it's just how they are. They shoot very well, but the learning curve is steep. I would suggest a lot of dry firing. Yep. My lmt is a major pita to shoot well and it doesn't like being shot from a lead sled. It must be loaded and driven hard to shoot 3/4-1moa. My 24" 16lb sr25, however, doesn't seem capable of shooting poorly. Op: mount a bipod, shoot prone, load it consistently, take a class from a known lr instructor, and I'd bet it can shoot sub Moa. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 11:19:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryNot too shabby.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 11:54:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, but that's not that good. I never shot anything but 5s on dog targets at an actual 200M rapid fire, and that's with an M16 that has a crappy trigger and longer lock time than the typical .22 used at an Appleseed. If you can't get all 5s on that target, I wouldn't expect you to shoot sub-MOA groups consistently. As other people have tried to explain in this thread, the AR has a longer lock time and requires perfect form with good follow-through. Practice dry firing, then try again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I shoot good enough. <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg</a> Sorry, but that's not that good. I never shot anything but 5s on dog targets at an actual 200M rapid fire, and that's with an M16 that has a crappy trigger and longer lock time than the typical .22 used at an Appleseed. If you can't get all 5s on that target, I wouldn't expect you to shoot sub-MOA groups consistently. As other people have tried to explain in this thread, the AR has a longer lock time and requires perfect form with good follow-through. Practice dry firing, then try again. Good enough to score rifleman and be in the top 95% of all who attend. I'll take it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2015 11:59:27 PM EDT
[#37]
dude, i can hardly tell a difference between any of your groups.. your shit is fine
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 12:06:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good enough to score rifleman and be in the top 95% of all who attend. I'll take it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I shoot good enough. <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/Appleseed12_2013_zps6392c568.jpg</a> Sorry, but that's not that good. I never shot anything but 5s on dog targets at an actual 200M rapid fire, and that's with an M16 that has a crappy trigger and longer lock time than the typical .22 used at an Appleseed. If you can't get all 5s on that target, I wouldn't expect you to shoot sub-MOA groups consistently. As other people have tried to explain in this thread, the AR has a longer lock time and requires perfect form with good follow-through. Practice dry firing, then try again. Good enough to score rifleman and be in the top 95% of all who attend. I'll take it. It's just an Appleseed, and that means precisely jack shit. Like I said, those should all be 5s; it's not that difficult. If you think that target is impressive, sign up for a high-power match. You will be greatly humbled, and also learn a lot. Most high-power shooters are very helpful to new guys. Look, we are trying to help you here, and you don't seem to be listening. Judging from everything you have told us, and judging from the unimpressive results in that picture, the problem is with the shooter, not the rifle. Dry fire at least 500 times, focusing on that follow-through, then try shooting some groups again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 12:16:11 AM EDT
[#39]
So, 20 rounds downrange and the thing is a piece of junk?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 12:59:13 AM EDT
[#40]
I might have missed it, but how many rounds has the rifle, in it's current form, seen in total?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 1:07:32 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I might have missed it, but how many rounds has the rifle, in it's current form, seen in total? Don't any "inconsistencies" in the barrel get filled in with the first few rounds? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 1:14:41 AM EDT
[#42]
You have a1 moa gun with a barrel that's 1 moa.
What's the problem again? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 4:28:38 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, never shoot the last round in the magazine. Always have a few more in the mag after you finish each group. With the last round there is different friction on the bolt and can cause the bullet to seat harder/softer in the chamber. Data? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 4:37:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Here is my rifle: <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/AR308_zpsu9lpx9iq.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/AR308_zpsu9lpx9iq.jpg</a> .308 caliber Rainier Arms Ultramatch 20" barrel. Aero M5 upper/lower AIM surplus nitride BCG Magpul UBR stock RRA 2 stage trigger 14" Fortis SWITCH rail (free floating) Slash's buffer and spring Primary Arms 4-14x ACSS 30mm scope I'm getting some great groups then groupings go to shit. In the pics, you will see a nice 3 shot .25 MOA grouping, then the gun jumps to 3/4 to 1 MOA. I used Federal Gold Medal Match in 175 and 168gr. Scope is locked in solid. Bolt headspace a with the barrel. What's going on? <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/90195753-45D1-40B5-925C-C480A3DACC46_zpsprn93i3m.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/90195753-45D1-40B5-925C-C480A3DACC46_zpsprn93i3m.jpg</a> <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/A98422BC-CDBC-45CE-BBB6-20F6EAE6596D_zpsdmfjcfbr.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/A98422BC-CDBC-45CE-BBB6-20F6EAE6596D_zpsdmfjcfbr.jpg</a> <a href="http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rabidus_/media/CD3B997F-44BA-4D54-90D3-88A9FD090B35_zps9zgswiub.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c311/rabidus_/CD3B997F-44BA-4D54-90D3-88A9FD090B35_zps9zgswiub.jpg</a> I was having this weird problem happen. I'd get a nice group then another group of the same ammo would fly around. I had my Marine friend shoot it and he had the same problem. He would get a nice group then the next group would go to shit. He made fun of me and said it was probably me shooting poorly, but he got the same results after he shot it.
Could it be the scope? It's the weakest link. I would guess if its all in one sitting that the bbl is heating up while you are shooting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 4:41:54 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Castle nut is probably on backwards. He's a competent gunsmith! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 5:12:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Data? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also, never shoot the last round in the magazine. Always have a few more in the mag after you finish each group. With the last round there is different friction on the bolt and can cause the bullet to seat harder/softer in the chamber. Data? Just my personal experience for many years. At first I thought it was just my imagination but A few years back I got a Rainer Arms barrel with a badly tight chamber. I shoot 175g SMK FGMM and as usual I loaded 1 extra round into the magazine, but after firing a 5 round group and manually trying to extract the extra before I headed down range I kept pulling the bullet from the case and spilling powder all in my chamber. Sometimes it happened sometimes it didn't and heat was not a factor. For example hitting the bolt release on a round and trying to extract was the easiest. Firing a round and trying to extract often left the bullet lodged in the barrel and powder in my chamber. The bolt slapping home at different speeds or forces .etc could mean the difference between a bullet being slightly pushed back into the case or the metal just conforming to the grooves. This could cause different pressures. Rainer replaced my barrel no questions asked. This is an exaggerated example of the theory I've had for years, so I say better safe than sorry. Obviously not an issue for a bolt gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 5:28:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Statistics are a bitch.
While I was on vacation one year, an outdoor writer called for me at Speer and ended up transferred to our quality department. His question was a great one: “What is the least number of shots fired in one group that gives me high confidence that the whole batch is accurate?”
A PhD statistician went to work, applying all the classic statistical methods to the questions. Even if I could, I won’t attempt to document his work here, but the number he derived was seven. “Doc” was able to demonstrate a jump in statistical confidence level between a five- and a seven-shot group that was remarkable. ...Next time you believe a three-shot group will tell you a batch of 500 handloads is accurate, stick your hand in your pocket and remember the coin-flip test. Allan Jones' "Statistics Is Not A Dirty Word" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 6:53:26 AM EDT
[#48]
I woke up this morning thinking about this thread
I don't know squat about precision shooting. The only thing that comes to mind is that the Lyman reloading book mentions cleaning the gun really frequently to get the most out of it. IIRC it said some guys clean it every seven rounds or so on the extreme end. Could be voodoo magic, though... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 7:04:33 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I woke up this morning thinking about this thread I don't know squat about precision shooting. The only thing that comes to mind is that the Lyman reloading book mentions cleaning the gun really frequently to get the most out of it. IIRC it said some guys clean it every seven rounds or so on the extreme end. Could be voodoo magic, though... But those are probably the guys who replace their barrels after 300 rounds. Unless you have a bore, bullet, powder combo that fouls the poo out of it, 250-500 rounds isn't a bad interval. Leaving a little fouling may not yield the absolute smallest group, but more consistent groups. Some guys in the PR section go up to ~1000 rounds or "when accuracy drops" before cleaning. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/3/2015 8:29:26 AM EDT
[#50]
I'm one of those guys. No cleaning until accuracy degrades.
I'm still interested in knowing how many rounds the rifle has seen. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
