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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:10:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote History I'm going to hell
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:12:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to hell Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to hell 
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:24:39 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:53:52 AM EDT
[#4]
His suicide note makes the case seem pretty straightforward to me.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:13:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I've long had my suspicions about that crazy bitch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wasn't long before he was killed that he had cleaned up. Wanted to go in a difference direction musically. And was going to divorce Courtney since his mind was clear. She stood to lose the most. Yeah. I've long had my suspicions about that crazy bitch. I understand that her own father thinks she had something to do it. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:55:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe read up on it a little more. There is WAYYYYY more to this than you might think. People who are already dead from a massive overdose don't shoot themselves. They don't turn ejection ports backwards from where the shell ejected. Shit man... Even Courteney's dad thinks she had him killed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good grief, he wasn't murdered. Why is the truth that a heavy heroin user got depressed and killed himself so hard to believe?  The simple truth (Occam's Razor) never applies to celebrities. It just has to be a conspiracy. Maybe read up on it a little more. There is WAYYYYY more to this than you might think. People who are already dead from a massive overdose don't shoot themselves. They don't turn ejection ports backwards from where the shell ejected. Shit man... Even Courteney's dad thinks she had him killed. Yep. Watch the documentary "Soaked in bleach" mind blown and no doubt he was murdered and courtney was behind it. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:37:12 AM EDT
[#7]
She was involved
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:46:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Move the fuck on. Party is over.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:51:36 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His suicide note makes the case seem pretty straightforward to me. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:52:10 AM EDT
[#10]
I also demand to dig up the evidence of the fake moonlanding and JFK suicide out in Terlingua
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:53:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that note was found to be written in two different hands. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His suicide note makes the case seem pretty straightforward to me. Do you have a link to anything? Most of what I read said it was his writing. At best, the results of analysis were "inconclusive". |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:57:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I also demand to dig up the evidence of the fake moonlanding and JFK suicide out in Terlingua Hardly the same thing. Big government coverup conspiracies are usually very VERY far-fetched. Assuming this case is true, this is simply a matter of a wife having her husband killed for monetary gain. That kind of stuff happens all the time. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:02:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hardly the same thing. Big government coverup conspiracies are usually very VERY far-fetched. Assuming this case is true, this is simply a matter of a wife having her husband killed for monetary gain. That kind of stuff happens all the time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I also demand to dig up the evidence of the fake moonlanding and JFK suicide out in Terlingua Hardly the same thing. Big government coverup conspiracies are usually very VERY far-fetched. Assuming this case is true, this is simply a matter of a wife having her husband killed for monetary gain. That kind of stuff happens all the time. On second thought, I suppose I could buy that  |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:09:22 AM EDT
[#14]
ZFG
The best thing Cobain ever released was the safety, and that's putting it politely. Junkies OD then kill themselves all the time. Because he had money we're supposed to care? |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:17:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ZFG The best thing Cobain ever released was the safety, and that's putting it politely. Junkies OD then kill themselves all the time. Because he had money we're supposed to care? They don't kill themselves when they are already ODed from 2x lethal dose of heroin, roll down their sleeves, shoot themselves with the ejection port facing one way and then rotate it 180°. There is a lot more to this than perhaps you know. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:19:19 AM EDT
[#16]
There is an article with KC standing up for the right to keep and bear somewhere out there. I will dig for it tomorrow.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:35:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is an article with KC standing up for the right to keep and bear somewhere out there. I will dig for it tomorrow. Well, he WAS a gun guy
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:53:59 AM EDT
[#18]
The morphine levels detected in his blood stream don't mean shit. Tolerance makes interpretation of such levels nearly pointless. What was in his system is not a cause and effect sort of thing, and should only be regarded as an ancillary factor.
The shotgun cartridge position assumes we know exactly how he was holding the rifle when it was fired. The sleeves on his shirt bullshit assume he injected into his arm. So many assumptions by people who refuse to believe someone with a drug habit and depression, with a history of suicide and multiple gestures, could ever commit such an act. Doesn't anyone think that some of these players are also in it for book writing endeavors? Makes a great story. That El Duce character seemed highly credible. Oh and those handwriting experts? Yeah that's a real science. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:10:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Nirvana was my favorite band when I was young. It was the first concert I ever went to.
That said, the dude is dead, he ain't coming back. Thus, I don't really care about the conspiracy theories. I don't think the pictures should be released. It's gross and it serves no purpose. It's well past time to move on. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:14:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The morphine levels detected in his blood stream don't mean shit. Tolerance makes interpretation of such levels nearly pointless. What was in his system is not a cause and effect sort of thing, and should only be regarded as an ancillary factor. The shotgun cartridge position assumes we know exactly how he was holding the rifle when it was fired. The sleeves on his shirt bullshit assume he injected into his arm. So many assumptions by people who refuse to believe someone with a drug habit and depression, with a history of suicide and multiple gestures, could ever commit such an act. Doesn't anyone think that some of these players are also in it for book writing endeavors? Makes a great story. That El Duce character seemed highly credible. Oh and those handwriting experts? Yeah that's a real science. Lot of the cops and medical examiners that worked on it apparently think it was sketchy and badly handled. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:36:53 AM EDT
[#21]
His music sucked, but I buy into the "he was murdered" category. YMMV as always.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 7:02:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryAwfully depressing life and group of friends he led |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 8:35:00 AM EDT
[#23]
You had me at "Bean fight"...
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Posted: 8/3/2015 8:48:59 AM EDT
[#24]
I remember shortly before he died the music world collectively lost its shit when a report came out that he had OD'ed. I remember listening to the radio in my car and every commercial break being nothing but Breaking News ! Cobain OD's! Emergency! Emergency! Every Grunge To Get From Street!...
... and then once people realized he was ok the whole thing vanished like a fart in the wind. Then a short time later he up and blows his head off and the first week the radio news almost thought it was another crank, or the original misreported story coming back. Ah, those heady days before the internet was a thing and word of mouth spread like wildfire. It was a huge telephone game of information, muddying the facts with each new telling. Honestly I couldn't dredge up two shits then and I certainly can't now. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 8:56:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to see them. Gruesome, mangled, broken, smashed up bodies to me are a work of art. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree with them. why would anyone want to see them? I want to see them. Gruesome, mangled, broken, smashed up bodies to me are a work of art. This is probably the most morbid post I've ever read here and you should probably seek professional help. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:12:02 AM EDT
[#26]
20ga? hmph
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Posted: 8/3/2015 9:48:49 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
20ga? hmph exactly - never thought to ask what he used - always assumed 12. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 10:35:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The morphine levels detected in his blood stream don't mean shit. Tolerance makes interpretation of such levels nearly pointless. What was in his system is not a cause and effect sort of thing, and should only be regarded as an ancillary factor. The shotgun cartridge position assumes we know exactly how he was holding the rifle when it was fired. The sleeves on his shirt bullshit assume he injected into his arm. So many assumptions by people who refuse to believe someone with a drug habit and depression, with a history of suicide and multiple gestures, could ever commit such an act. Doesn't anyone think that some of these players are also in it for book writing endeavors? Makes a great story. That El Duce character seemed highly credible. Oh and those handwriting experts? Yeah that's a real science. Sure, there is a possibility that the PI who was hired decided to make this up for gain, but IIRC he didn't even accept payment for his work. I have never seen the documentary in question, but I did read 'Who Killed Kurt Cobain' about 3 times in Iraq, so I have the memories down OK. The trouble with your explanation about his gun and the whereabouts of his fingers is that they were still essentially holding the gun in the orientation he was thought to have been when the trigger was pulled. This would mean that the ejection port was facing one direction and the shell casing ended up in another part of the room. I suppose it might have bounced. That alone might be excusable, but like I said, he was awfully lucid for a guy who just jacked himself up with a ridiculously high level of heroin. According to the coroner, it was 2x lethal dose for an addict. Maybe he wanted to go out painlessly? OK, well all of his "gear" was put away. Regardless of whether he died of GSW to the head or from the heroine, it's very suspicious to me that all of his stuff was put away so neatly being that high. All of the other details only add to the suspicion. Guy talking about divorcing his wife. Had a prenup. Friends admit he was concerned for his safety because of this. Someone on record as having been approached about doing the killing...etc. It IS possible that it was a suicide, but I believe it should be looked at further. I would put it at a greater than 50% chance that he was murdered. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:45:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have a link to anything? Most of what I read said it was his writing. At best, the results of analysis were "inconclusive". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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His suicide note makes the case seem pretty straightforward to me. Do you have a link to anything? Most of what I read said it was his writing. At best, the results of analysis were "inconclusive". Watch the documentary Soaked in Bleach the Hand writing expert goes into it in detail and even matches Courtneys handwriting to the bottom half of the note. The top half was some bullshit writing he had done years earlier. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:47:31 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ZFG The best thing Cobain ever released was the safety, and that's putting it politely. Junkies OD then kill themselves all the time. Because he had money we're supposed to care? Yet you care enough to post in this thread? |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:48:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yet you care enough to post in this thread? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ZFG The best thing Cobain ever released was the safety, and that's putting it politely. Junkies OD then kill themselves all the time. Because he had money we're supposed to care? Yet you care enough to post in this thread? Every time someone says that joke, they think it's the first time it's being heard. It's a 20 year old joke. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:50:25 PM EDT
[#32]
I don't think she's smart enough or has her shit together enough to have done it and gotten away all this time. Isn't she constantly broke and still using? Plus she lost custody of the daughter, that just tells me this is not someone who could get away with murder.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:53:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good grief, he wasn't murdered. Why is the truth that a heavy heroin user got depressed and killed himself so hard to believe? It was the IBS that sent him over. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 3:50:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think she's smart enough or has her shit together enough to have done it and gotten away all this time. Isn't she constantly broke and still using? Plus she lost custody of the daughter, that just tells me this is not someone who could get away with murder. I think the point there is she obviously runs with a lower class crowd to where all she would have ever had to do is entrust one person who then orchestrated the entire thing. If that person is close enough she could skate by forever not to mention how botched the investigation was. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:24:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the point there is she obviously runs with a lower class crowd to where all she would have ever had to do is entrust one person who then orchestrated the entire thing. If that person is close enough she could skate by forever not to mention how botched the investigation was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think she's smart enough or has her shit together enough to have done it and gotten away all this time. Isn't she constantly broke and still using? Plus she lost custody of the daughter, that just tells me this is not someone who could get away with murder. I think the point there is she obviously runs with a lower class crowd to where all she would have ever had to do is entrust one person who then orchestrated the entire thing. If that person is close enough she could skate by forever not to mention how botched the investigation was. I didn't mean that if she was involved then she pulled the trigger, although it may have looked that way. Let's say all she did was give the order. Whoever she enlisted would probably have been just as much a screw up as her. Think of the movie Fargo. Would that person have been able to pull off all the things that theorists are saying would have to have been successfully pulled off in order for a murder to look like a suicide? Doubtful. If so then it's the job of the century (after TWA 800 of course). Criminals are stupid and usually get caught, and secrets of this magnitude are hard to keep. As was already stated, I'm going with Occam's Razor. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hit by a train IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anything is possible. Wouldn't it be something to see her indicted over twenty years later for his death? How was El Duce killed? Hit by a train IIRC. Lots of respectable people been hit by trains. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:34:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't mean that if she was involved then she pulled the trigger, although it may have looked that way. Let's say all she did was give the order. Whoever she enlisted would probably have been just as much a screw up as her. Think of the movie Fargo. Would that person have been able to pull off all the things that theorists are saying would have to have been successfully pulled off in order for a murder to look like a suicide? Doubtful. If so then it's the job of the century (after TWA 800 of course). Criminals are stupid and usually get caught, and secrets of this magnitude are hard to keep. As was already stated, I'm going with Occam's Razor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't think she's smart enough or has her shit together enough to have done it and gotten away all this time. Isn't she constantly broke and still using? Plus she lost custody of the daughter, that just tells me this is not someone who could get away with murder. I think the point there is she obviously runs with a lower class crowd to where all she would have ever had to do is entrust one person who then orchestrated the entire thing. If that person is close enough she could skate by forever not to mention how botched the investigation was. I didn't mean that if she was involved then she pulled the trigger, although it may have looked that way. Let's say all she did was give the order. Whoever she enlisted would probably have been just as much a screw up as her. Think of the movie Fargo. Would that person have been able to pull off all the things that theorists are saying would have to have been successfully pulled off in order for a murder to look like a suicide? Doubtful. If so then it's the job of the century (after TWA 800 of course). Criminals are stupid and usually get caught, and secrets of this magnitude are hard to keep. As was already stated, I'm going with Occam's Razor. At the time her and her buddies we all screwed up on Heroin and many friends were around for the free drugs. All it would have taken is a close friend who is so dependent they would do anything then she could play the you will go to jail card. When screwed up on drugs it doesn't take much and the rash of accidental deaths surrounding them after doesn't help much either. It wouldn't take much planning or staging - offer to shoot the dude up with heroin, when he is nodding out put the gun under his chin and boom with his finger- stage the minimal items around and head out closing the door behind you. Dont get it twisted whether she did it or not if you listen to any of the documentaries on him or anything with her for that matter she is a twisted conniving individual. However I do agree with you Occams and all just some really interesting qa-winky-dinks |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:38:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Wasn't long before he was killed that he had cleaned up. I'm not a Nirvana historian, but I'm pretty sure that he snuck out of rehab, disappeared for a couple of days, and then was found dead. That doesn't sound cleaned up to me. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:45:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to see them. Gruesome, mangled, broken, smashed up bodies to me are a work of art. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree with them. why would anyone want to see them? I want to see them. Gruesome, mangled, broken, smashed up bodies to me are a work of art. What the fuck is wrong with you? |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:46:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of respectable people been hit by trains. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anything is possible. Wouldn't it be something to see her indicted over twenty years later for his death? How was El Duce killed? Hit by a train IIRC. Lots of respectable people been hit by trains. The story was El Duce got so drunk he fell asleep on the tracks. No one was around or saw it. Very strange.. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:51:29 PM EDT
[#41]
Faceless tragedy, it was.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:52:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We talked on this site years ago about him, some of the members went and put shotgun shells on his grave and posted pictures. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:55:14 PM EDT
[#43]
I watched the "Kurt and Courtney" documentary on Amazon Prime. The only thing even resembling evidence in that was the interview with El Duce and I wouldn't believe anything that came out of that idiot's mouth.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 4:55:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The story was El Duce got so drunk he fell asleep on the tracks. No one was around or saw it. Very strange.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Anything is possible. Wouldn't it be something to see her indicted over twenty years later for his death? How was El Duce killed? Hit by a train IIRC. Lots of respectable people been hit by trains. The story was El Duce got so drunk he fell asleep on the tracks. No one was around or saw it. Very strange.. I think that was the plot to one of those Real Death films they released back during those days. ETA: EIther way, if that's how it happened, I would imagine his new nickname in Heaven to be El Tresse. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 5:41:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Junkie girls can be as conniving and brutal as a KGB officer.
I'm not saying she had Kurt killed, but it's easy to dismiss her as a total fuckup, when in reality, she was manipulating the press, running disinformation campaigns, and moving different people around to best fit her own narrative. I wouldn't write her off. Speed |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 5:49:41 PM EDT
[#46]
I think it's jealousy. People expected her to become a grunge Miss Haversham, but instead she moved on. And I'm sure Kurt's junkie friends are pissed off because she stopped the gravy train.
And let's face it: If you had a bunch of no-mark wankers spreading rumors that you killed your spouse, you might get a little odd after a while. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 6:48:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Crazy ass junkie liberal, or not, I'm going to defy GD convention here and go on record as saying Courtney was the hawt back in the day. Kindly refrain from posting more recent zombie out picks of aging grunge queen.  |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 7:21:28 PM EDT
[#48]
He stuck it in Crazy and it all went sideways..............what a revelation.
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Posted: 8/4/2015 2:21:44 AM EDT
[#49]
This is interesting to watch. Check out @10:12 and on.
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Posted: 8/5/2015 1:07:49 PM EDT
[#50]
There are too many things, just on the surface that don't add up with Tom Grant's assertion that Cobain killed himself.
One example: While searching for Kurt, who was dead in the greenhouse, Tom Grant went in with Dylan Carson to look for him. It was supposedly 0215. Pouring down rain. Tom Grant recording this search. I find this odd. Kurt was a missing person only. Why record a late night "search"? Nevertheless, during a taped phone call between Tom Grant and Courtney Love, after the suicide, Courtney mentions a separate letter that Kurt placed under her pillow, addressed to her. Now, Tom tells her he looked under the pillow and no letter was there that night they searched. Yeah, you looked under a pillow during a missing persons search for someone....I don't think so. Nothing in this world would explain that action. Now perhaps he's telling her he looked to make her lie, but she stuck to the story and I'm pretty sure he wants us to think he really looked there to further his agenda. Maybe he truly thinks he was murdered. I think that Rosemary lady convinced him and Courtney, being so trashy, made him think she was more than capable. Either way, it's all bullshit. |
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