LOL

Come on......you can do better than that!
You who are so wise and smart!
Certainly you are not so limited in intellect that this is the best you can do?
I thought more of you.....please try again and tell us how
the Most High God does not exist and how the Lord Jesus Christ did not die on the cross
for your sins.......

Come now...don't let us down so.....

I mean.....you never know when your time here on earth will come to a sudden end
and then the Judgement....but one so wise as you knows better being from Kalifornia
and all..........LOL

so please try again and put more intellect, thought and emotion into it

really?

please, tell us more

How is that cowardly.  In fact...I'd say it's quite the opposite.  Since I'm pro-abortion, I'd be willing to participate in it if it was my chosen profession.

The burden of truth lies on the one making the claim, not the one saying that the claim is false.  God does not exist.  If he does, he's a cunt and doesn't deserve to be worshipped.

He's been here longer than you

You people?

Could you please be more specific

You people as in

Conservatives?
Right Wing Extremeist?
Christian?
Fundamentalist?
Jews?
Fly Over State people?
Red State people?
Meat and potato eaters?
Racists?
Diesel truck owners?
Hate Chicken eaters?


are you referring to just white people because if you are then I'll skip this........but wasn't sure.......

thanks

Yeah I noticed that. It's whatever. Savage, mentally ill people live and walk among us. Go figure. It's one thing being pro-choice, but actually wanting to be a part of it, and wanting to kill the fetuses, is very disgusting and vile. That's some serial killer mentality going on in that brain of his. Kermit Gosnell comes to mind.

So does He
or
Does He not exist?

I mean..........that's really weak sauce.......are you like new at being a Leftist? Is there like someone you can text to get some pointers at
profaning the Most High God?

Here let me fire you up a lil

Romans 1

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


and of course this is the KJV

Serious answer:

God is supposed to be perfect and all knowing.  A being that is ALL KNOWING and is PERFECT would not change it's mind (old testament vs new testament) because it would already have all of the information and it's decision making ability would be perfect, therefore every decision made would be right for all time.

God never "gave his son to die on the cross".  If you are god, and you know for a fact that your son isn't forever gone, but will come up to meet you in a second after you "give him to humans" (remember how christians always say that time doesn't affect god), he hasn't lost anything nor given anything to anyone.  To quote the great Doug Stanhope ".....Dying on a cross for my sins.....that doesn't even make any sense.  How are they connected? It would be like me telling you I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage".  

Almost every historic account in the bible has been proven to not have happened. There never was a flood.  We didn't all come from 2 people. The earth is older than 10,000 years.  We have organs that are POINTLESS (appendix).  As a species we have terrible vision.  We have piss-poor hearing.  We are weak. There are countless diseases that try to kill us from the day were born.  We have natural disasters that kill countless people. We can only live comfortably on a veerrrrrry small percentage of this planet and yet you're going to tell me that an all knowing, loving, and powerful god made this place just for us?  At absolute BEST he's inept and therefore deserves no respect. At worst he's a vindictive douchebag who deserves no respect.

Logic and knowledge point to there being no god at all so the above is all hypothetical of course.

Yup.

How slow are you?  I never said I wanted to do it.  I said I would have no problem doing it.  That is a distinct difference.

OK so now that we know

A. You never went to Theology school
B. You have never read the Bible
C. You have virtually no understanding of Christian theology

I feel a bit bad for you.......that you hate something so much that you don't even understand.....

But that's kind of a leftist thing isn't it?

(I used a lil L because you are not a real leftist)

Explain to me how anything I said fails the logic test.

I'm also extremely thankful that my parents didn't waste my childhood by putting me in any religion schools.

I would rather be on the side of virtue and not align with murderers.

If you believe that, you never read the bible, or you didn't understand what you read.

Actually, even scientifically, the fetus is never considered a part of the woman's body. It is a separate entity entirely.

So, they are not doing anything with their own body, but with someone else's.

You WILL be judged.

In this life I find you disgusting and depraved, meaningless as my opinion is.

Only you will know what afterlife holds for you. I think even you may be severely disappointed.

uhhhhh............... no.  You don't have the right to tell a woman she has to carry this thing to term while she gains a ton of weight, risks her own health, has her hormones all fucked up, just because it makes you feel better.  Tough shit.

I don't think there is any afterlife.  This is it.  In fact...if there is an afterlife, you people have NO FUCKING reason to be upset as you haven't deprived the aborted fetus of anything.  

Here's a mental exercise for you: Since more and more people are adopting beliefs similar to mine, and if you are right about an afterlife, I and those with my lack of belief will spend it in a world of hurt for eternity.  Wouldn't it be better to skip this life where one may fall from grace and go right to the pearly gates and be in the presence of god forever?  Every aborted fetus doesn't have the chance to denounce god and gets a free pass to eternal life with him.  Why are you upset about that?


But that's all bullshit. I won't be judged.  Neither will you.  We will die and we will cease to exist.

Here's a word key for you:
God = giant sky fairy who created everything
Son = jesus
Virgin birth = I think you understand that part.
Died = crucifixion
Came back = 3 days later.
Worship him how he wants = accept him as your lord and savior.
Don't do all that = hell.

How is anything I said not consistent with christian beliefs?

No you won't actually.

If you've never heard the true word of God, or were not in a position to accept,  then you will have a chance to. The judgement is not until after the millineum.

As a whole, Humanity has decided life is cheap...

It is not consistent because you left the whole reason for Jesus life and death on the cross.

He came to the world to save it, not condemn it.

All of us as Christians fall short. We disappoint him constantly. We do not worship him as we should.

However, He loved us enough that He died on the cross for us as a sacrifice. There was a tradition called " Kinsman Redeemer" , whereby a person of your family could present a sacrifice to God for you for your sins if you were not capable of it for whatever reason. Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer, and our sacrifice.

Even though we sin, and hurt Him, even 7x70 times a day, if we repent, and ask forgiveness and with a heart that is trying to not continue, we are forgiven. We are not condemned, we are saved.

The Nazis took steps to keep the final solution secret because they knew the German public wouldn't accept it. All the killing centers were outside of Germany where they could better control information getting back to Germany. The German people were willing to go along with all sorts of atrocities but the wholesale killing of undesirables wasn't something they would have gone along with. The German people were told the same thing that those who were murdered were, that the Jews and other undesirables were relocated.

The Holocaust is a poor comparison for abortion for a whole number of reasons but in this way the Holocaust was nothing like abortion because abortion isn't kept secret from us. Everyone in the US knows abortion happens the same couldn't be said of Germans and the slaughter of those deemed undesirable.

And I will add, worshiping Him is not some strict program.

He is our Father in heaven.

The key is he is our father.

He wants the same exact things from us, his children, and we want from our own.

Think if your own kids came up to you and recited a speech over and over , the same thing, every day, every time they talked to you. It would lose it's value, and you really wouldn't ever have a relationship with them.

He wants you to talk to Him like you would your human father, or like you want your kids to talk to you.

He wants a relationship with you.

If having a kid is such a terrible burden for a woman that she'd rather kill it than live with the consequences of her decision, why not just have the old tubes tied and not have to worry?

There ya go...this is why I have very little respect for the anti-theist on the forum

Well, if they had spent some money on your education you would at least be able to argue some basic points...

Lets consider paragraph one

God is supposed to be perfect and all knowing. A being that is ALL KNOWING and is PERFECT would not change it's mind (old testament vs new testament) because it would already have all of the information and it's decision making ability would be perfect, therefore every decision made would be right for all time.

Yes, some of the attributes of God include Him being Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. And we know He has a perfect plan for the salvation of mankind after the fall of Genesis chapter 3. He knew man would fall. That being said, God did not 'change his mind' as you are implying. That God suddenly got new information, realized a mistake or.... You have to consider scripture carefully, taking into account the original language it was written in, who it was written to and the text itself. For example Genesis 6:6 where God is grieved he even made man.

6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth--men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air--for I am grieved that I have made them."

Yet what happens? God saves mankind through Noah and his family. Why? Because it was all part of God's plan.

The Scriptures that are interpreted as God seeming to change His mind are human attempts to explain the actions of God. God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God does what He needs to do to cause humanity to fulfill His perfect plan.

God never "gave his son to die on the cross". If you are god, and you know for a fact that your son isn't forever gone, but will come up to meet you in a second after you "give him to humans" (remember how christians always say that time doesn't affect god), he hasn't lost anything nor given anything to everyone. To quote the great Doug Stanhope ".....Dying on a cross for my sins.....that doesn't even make any sense. How are they connected? It would be like me telling you I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage".

Actually He did die on a cross. Before that he was brutally beaten, whipped and humiliated. The guards put a sack over his head and took turns punching him asking him to tell them which one had just hit him if he was the all knowing God (of course He did know). Then he was crucified and died. Most importantly He suffered separation from God the Father. In doing so He bore yours and mine punishment. What is this punishment and why did He have to pay with His life? It's the same as if you were found guilty of a capital crime and were sentenced by a jury to death. It is a legal proceeding. God is the judge. You have been tried, found guilty and convicted. It is a capital offense calling for the death penalty. However He stepped in and was executed IN YOUR PLACE even though He was completely innocent and you are guilty.


Almost every historic account in the bible has been proven to not have happened.

this is simply not true.....try reading the Roman historian Josephus

There never was a flood. We didn't all come from 2 people.

You have no proof of either of these although people around the world have stories of a great flood....

We have organs that are POINTLESS (appendix). As a species we have terrible vision. We have piss-poor hearing. We are weak. There are countless diseases that try to kill us from the day were born. We have natural disasters that kill countless people. We can only live comfortably on a veerrrrrry small percentage of this planet and yet you're going to tell me that an all knowing, loving, and powerful god made this place for us? At BEST he's inept and therefore deserves no respect. At worst he's a vindictive douchebag who deserves no respect.

If you read Genesis and understood the concept of the fall, the judgment and the curse on this world then your above paragraph would suddenly make much more sense to you.....

It's pretty well accepted that you have to accept jesus christ as your lord and savior in order to get into heaven.  That is forcing someone to worship the way you want in order to give them something.  If he really cared and wanted a relationship, he wouldn't hide in the shadows of a poorly written ancient text.  

Like I said before though, yours, and the +/- 4000 other religions that have existed throughout history are wrong.  Death is final...just accept it and move on.

He doesn't hide in the shadows.......He reveals Himself to you in many ways and forms beyond just His written Word
You are just not listening.....

might I ask WHY you wish for death to be final? Why you hope that this is all there is?

Wow! You're not even a very bright atheist.

Do you have any idea just how much God loves you?

YOU.......

this is simple...but true

16 “For God so loved the world, [1] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”

That God suddenly got new information, realized a mistake or....
You cant be all knowing and omnipotent and get new information, or make mistakes.  It doesn't work that way.

Yet what happens? God saves mankind through Noah and his family. Why? Because it was all part of God's plan.
So everyone else who had a boat, theirs sunk or didn't work?  Noah and his family are white people, where did all of the other races come from?  

Actually He did die on a cross. Before that he was brutally beaten, whipped and humiliated. The guards put a sack over his head and took turns punching him asking him to tell them which one had just hit him if he was the all knowing God (of course He did know). Then he was crucified and died. Most importantly He suffered separation from God the Father. In doing so He bore yours and mine punishment. What is this punishment and why did He have to pay with His life? It's the same as if you were found guilty of a capital crime and were sentenced by a jury to death. It is a legal proceeding. God is the judge. You have been tried, found guilty and convicted. It is a capital offense calling for the death penalty. However He stepped in and was executed IN YOUR PLACE even though He was completely innocent and you are guilty.
So god has the ability to wipe everyone's slate clean and start anew, but instead, he has his son get tortured and killed.  All god had to do was forgive everyone, but that wasn't good enough.  

Scenario: you are at my house, you go into my fridge and drink my last chocolate-stout homebrew without asking.  Instead of me going "dude...wtf..." and you saying "my bad, I'm sorry" and me forgiving you.  I say "dude...wtf...." and then have my dog tortured and killed to stand in for your sin.

You do realize that is EXACTLY the same as the story in the bible (original sin).  That is insane and why you would want to worship a being that is that irrational and vindictive is beyond comprehension.

Soooooo god loves me but if I don't worship him how he wants me to, I get to spend eternity getting tortured.  That doesn't seem irrational to you?  How can you love someone, but damn them to eternal agony because they turned their back on you.  I've been wronged by people I love in my life but I've never wanted to set them on fire because of it.

Quoted:


That God suddenly got new information, realized a mistake or....
You cant be all knowing and omnipotent and get new information, or make mistakes.  It doesn't work that way.

I was saying by the above sentence that this is NOT what happened...you misinterpreted that. No biggie.

Bullshit! They knew.
A common refrain when someone bitched about Hitler was, "Shh, you'll end up in Dachau."

They knew, they just didn't fucking care, same as the poles.

Refute ANYTHING i have said about religion.  Go for it.

Because that is what gives this life meaning.  If you have a never-ending bowl of ice cream, each bite is meaningless.  If we had eternal life after this life, than this life isn't important at all.

Ahh, copy that.  

Wouldn't god then know that man would fall when he created us?  What would be the point in creating a creature that you KNOW for a fact will fail you?  In fact... why would you design such a creature?  To go one step further, if a being was omnipotent, perfect, and all knowing, it wouldn't understand how to make an imperfect creature.  That concept wouldn't even make sense to it.

God loves you
but
God is also a just God who cannot have sin in his presence

Again, its a legal issue. You were tried and found guilty.

Guilty of what? You sinned with Adam and Even and condemned this planet and billions of people in the Fall
and
today you live in sin

and while you know of and understand God's free gift of salvation

you freely reject it

and mock Him

Your fate and judgement is entirely on YOU.......

Did you wander in here from /pol/ or something?

YES!

OK, now we are getting someplace......!

Yes God created us knowing we would fall in the garden.
But we fell because he gave us free will.
He gave us free will because he didn't just want mindless robots to worship Him.
He gave us the choice. It was entirely up to us to decide.

now

on THIS side of the fall

we STILL have free will.

I choose to accept Christ and worship the Most High God

and you can choose to do what you wish

but HE gave us that ability and choice

And that seems logical to you?  Fuck that noise.  I would sooner go to hell/purgatory/non-existence than be in the presence of a creature like that.  

Check this out guys....I'm going to find your entire species guilty because of the acts of 2 individuals that I created and knew would fail to follow my rules.  I created them flawed, knew they would fail me, and I'm going to punish all of their descendants because of it.  I LOVE YOU ALL SO MUCH!!!

Or he could have given us free will and not made up ridiculous rules about not eating apples....but that would be the logical thing to do.

Also, holding eternal damnation over someone's head while giving them a "choice" isn't exactly giving that person the freedom of choice.  If I put a gun to your head and ask you "DO YOU LOVE NIKE SHOES!!! YOU BETTER LOVE THEM!!" yeah....sure you have the ability to say you hate them, but are you going to do that?

Like I said...to me this is all just mental masturbation as none of it is real.

Ok, but you are missing one little piece of the puzzle

They didn't have to sin
They also had the opportunity to have not sinned and led incredible lives walking with
God in a perfect world.

He offered all of that to them.........it was theirs...

They CHOSE to defy the Most High God, who they walked with and spoke to

at the same time
as far back as Genesis 3:6 God already had a plan to save people


they didn't have to sin, they could have walked away from the Tree

they chose not to fully knowing what they were doing.....

that's fine, but see its not too hard
and
people with opposite view points can be a bit respectful.

Perhaps I am not as bad as some may think and perhaps
you are not either....

Irrelevant.  God created them exactly as he wanted them.  If he didn't want them to fail, he wouldn't have given them their strong sense of curiosity.  You're missing the part that god has COMPLETE control over the personalities, intellect, obedience, etc of the first 2 people he created.  He designed them to fail.  They had no choice in the matter.

Again...why worship that?

Agreed.  You also can understand how someone who loves firearms but doesn't walk the tight-red-line on EVERY topic could get annoyed at the ultra-conservative hyperbole that is thrown around this place all the time.  I have a low post count because I normally just lurk.  The last few jesus/abortion threads put an end to the lurking.  

But that is not true.
We were not designed to fail.

Eve didn't have to listen to Lucifer
Adam could have walked away from Eve

it was their choice