What fucking pipeline are you even talking about?  MARSOC? SF?

It was a pretty general statement. As previously stated I was looking at 3 branches. I spoke to multiple people in all three of them.

Please excuse my vulgarity.  Generally, "pipeline" refers to a special operations training regimen.

The way I have always looked at it is that you can only choose whether or not to serve when it is your time, you can't choose your time to serve.

What I mean by that is you always hear people (particularly non military) make statements about how they would have been the first in line to serve during WW2, but would never join during Vietnam or Iraq, etc.

I think the one constant in history when it comes to voluntary military service is that most did not get to choose to serve based on a specific period of war, political environment, or leadership. To me, that is a big part of the sacrifice that one makes when they sign on the line.

If it is your time to serve, and you want to serve, do it. Suck it up, let the cards fall how they may, and make the most of it. But if you choose not to, move on and don't look back.

If you don't know what you want to do its never a good time to join.

If you don't want to be another old guy here posting about stupid '25ers and lamenting how you wish you could have joined before the iran invasion, its a great time to join.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but most people in your shoes are looking for something other than selfless service. The military has enough of that right now.

If you want to fight, get a short infantry contract, FO on selection and worst case ride the guard out after 3 years is up and wait for the next war.

I think the age of digital communication has changed that a lot. You have endless experiencing at your finger tips to make the best decision possible, if you have to drive to do it and actually know what you want to do.

 
I have had a good experience so I am sharing it as an option for a person. People should know their options before making such a decision and I am not the only one on here saying that.




I have been in long enough to help a person out and it's trivial to get so bent out of shape over nothing.

 

Hmm. Dat reading needs work doe.

How does your limited Air NG experience help someone prepare for a career in the United States Army?

Air Force.

Wat

In the case, use the two eyes to read the thread title and then read what focus8 posted

 

+1.  This.  They treat the enlisted much better.   I had my BIL who was a LT come and visit us and he commented that my on base housing ( I was an E4 at the time)  was better than his.

Did OP ever come back to his thread

If it doesn't involve selection, its not worth doing.

because nothing defines military service like being as comfortable as possible.

if you want to be in the DMV but wear a shitty polyester uniform, cool.

whats the fucking point?

Ooooooooooooooooooooh.  

What is his MOS?

Kind of nice for your family, when you are gone but I suppose you don't care about that.  Boom

I'm going to get out my wood burner and put that on a nice piece of wood so I can point to it everytime my wife asks
me to do something I am not inclined to do...thanks

If you are joining the military because its the best way to provide for your family, that speaks volumes.

Lol, the kid mentioned in OP has an adult mentor and wants to be in the Army. Obviously not too interested in hanging with his "family." No need to project because you wanted to rationalize something safe and cozy.

Also, I'll assume your beta vag post was submissively thanking sylvan for putting America first for like 25 years.

#justhappentohavesixspecialneedskids

Teach him to shut the fuck up and do what's he told by NCOs. I keep getting meeting snarky disrespectful privates straight from basic and it's a culture shock when they hit real NCOs. I'm pretty sure they just feed new soldiers coco puffs and take selfies with them.

Way back in the old days....grade schools were staffed mostly by middle aged women....Jr High it was an even mix of men and women...but by
High School we have mostly men teachers and administrators.A goodly share of these guys were vets of WW2 with a couple of Korean War vets
as well.They were big guys and they were tough...and tolerated no disrespect for themselves the female teachers and other students...They
were protective and disciplinarians....They also had the support of the parents.

If a kid merited it a kid got hit and got detention and when he got home his dad hit him again for good measure....

The kids these schools sent on to the military were basically not resentful of authority...then came the 60s and 70s....

No. I don't like service members hacking on other service members.  I chose what branch I wanted to be in. I was  Army 11B  ANG first then moved on to USAF Electronics.  

He chose his.  He volunteered as did I, no need to act like he is Billy Badass because he chose anther branch and bad mouth others.

I can solve your problems for you, don't worry.

Keep your Air force shit out of threads where nobody fucking asks for it.

Gets real hard not to talk shit when every single fucking thread where someone asks about joining the Army gets overrun with desk pilots.

Boo-friggin-hoo.

Sure, recruiting might have fewer slots to make good offers before you sign. That doesn't mean they have zero. Earn one.

The standard might be higher. Do you want to be the best, or just get a tab/wings/whatever so you can tell people you were tier-1 when you are old? Beat the standard. Don't aim to pass APFT, aim to dominate it. Apply that to everything you do. Elite units have plenty of snowflakes, but they also have a ton of guys who worked their tails off.

It very well might be more difficult to distinguish yourself. Again, are you trying to skate by or earn it the good old fashioned way?



Political b.s. scares you huh? Well, welcome to every single job and aspect of your life. It isn't limited to the Army. Also, the political b.s. is overblown. I know lots of great soldiers who continue to excel, despite the PC boogey man supposedly hiding in the dark.

Fund cutting isn't your problem. The higher speed your unit, the less of an issue it is. But honestly, even for a fuzzy 88m, the gas is always in the tank and there is always something to be unloaded. You will not be an S4, or a general begging congress for funding. You'll be fine.

What is a sneaky discharge? Boards and non-promotion are not sneaky. They are easily beat. Don't be a screw up, and be worth more to the army than your peers. Success sometimes gets overlooked in the army, but not every time. Work hard and you will be fine.



Honestly, it sounds like you have a bunch of excuses because you found out your fairy-tale military experience doesn't exist in reality. Either you want to go and do it, or you don't. It's fine.







 

Why is it so hard for soldiers to admit that there are better options than the Army?

You guys personify embracing the suck.

The Army, much like the navy, covers the world and like a hundred MOS with endless opportunities to do fun and cool stuff. It has nothing to do with better. I'm sure I could have done longer than 8 years active in a different branch. I wanted to join the Army to go fight post 9/11.

When people ask what service is better, I don't tell them to join the Army. The Army doesn't need those people. They need people who want to be Soldiers like the guy mentioned in the OP.

When you want to join the Army, there is no substitute for the Army.
The OP didn't ask for advice on all branches. He asked specifically about the Army.






If someone started a thread about cheeseburgers, would it be reasonable for people to post their pancake recipes? Probably not.
 

Be honest though, now is probably the worst time last 20 years to join the military, especially the Army. Its not about warfighting, its about politics at this point. How many threads are there in this forum alone that go on about SHARP classes with vets with tanks going on about how fucked up things are now and how glad they are that they aren't in? A ton.

Going into anything that isn't SOF at this point is probably a shitty idea for anyone who isn't joining strictly for a steady paycheck.

My mentor who was a USMC WWII Vet had me read the book War Is A Racket by Major General  Major General Smedley Butler.
I did,and didn't join. PDF download Here

Because for some service is more than a paycheck.

If it doesn't suck, whats the point?

The thing is that you can't tell if its a great or shitty time while we are in it.  I look at the dudes who came to my unit (ABN Infantry) in the months before I left (Dec 13) and they are getting some awesome experiences to go along with all that SHARP training.  They've been in 3 countries since I left.  And not to go to war.  Wanna go train with a foreign army for a couple of weeks, then kick it and relax for 4-5 days? Doesn't sound too bad.

When we re-deployed and came off of the patch chart completely, it was a big cycle breaker.  It really did suck for a while because there was this general sense of "what the hell is the point" and then we were hammering SL1 tasks for months.  But I have to wonder if this is not a great time to join the Infantry (if you do it for the right reasons).  You should have plenty of time/opportunity for the near future to go to schools that the "senior" specialists will never fight you for because they are busy conducting battle drill 87 "Assault on the VA".  If another conflict breaks out in a few years, you may be able to re-up as a SGT and have much better opportunities to choose your own destiny.  

Or yeah, this could be the worst time possible to join.  But it probably won't be if the individual doesn't adopt that attitude.  

What racket was WWII about?

You don't visit GD much, do you?

To grab the jew gold in a French bank 25 miles east of nancy.

Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?

that ain't my fault.
I've had nothing but good thoughts about that damned bridge ever since we left.

A better analogy perhaps -



If someone started a thread about removing motorcycle badges, would it be reasonable to start a fight about a chainsaw? GD is so much better than you could ever imagine!



 

I look at it this way. The Army is going garrison, the warfighters are not in charge anymore. Funds are being cut, much much more downsizing is expected, RIFing will start removing the dead weight but then after all the worst shit birds get canned and they still need to boot people then it will go back to the bad ol' days of the Clinton era where all realistic/good training was canceled because commanders weren't willing to risk their careers and a bad OER (and getting RIFed). Taking no risks, means no failures=promotion. Taking risks means occasional failures=/=don't get promoted.

If you didn't serve during the 90s and then into the GWOT where the ship completely reversed course, it will be hard to read the tea leaves and predict how this shit show is going to end up. This is not the first time this happened, last time it was a disaster for the military. Nothing in that regards has changed. Unless the Repub. can keep Congress and win back the White House, its only going to get worse.

The reality is that in a year or so, unless something drastic happens in the world that ensures the money gets turned back on, the best training an average infantry unit will have is doing PT, cleaning weapons half the day, and maybe practicing battle drills on open grass fields with empty rifles or sticks, yelling bang bang. School money will dry up too. Less parts for vehicles and less funds for fuel mean less training with them. Less ammo for training budgets means less ammo. You'll be lucky to shoot a couple times a year. You sure as hell wont be prepared for combat. And you can't argue that it wont go that way, just read about budgeting issues at the Pentagon, expected cuts, downsizing, etc. The worst stuff hasn't even started the trickle down yet. The Army you knew will be night and day different in a few years.  

And that doesn't even count the bullshit social stuff that will be part of the New Army. Chicks in the infantry, watered down standards, being forced to fully accept gays and trannies, etc. Fuck that.

This is pretty much it. I think 35P deserves a mention too because being fluent in a language could certainly be seen as a plus over your peers if you go one of the selection routes, and it'd cut 6 months out of that pipeline.

CWG mentioned that an abn unit will be more squared away...i've never been in a leg unit but I can tell you that if he goes the 11b route and ends up at the 82nd he'll be doing a lot more landscaping, cleaning toilets, and whatever else than highspeed infantry shit. But if you want to go to RS, that is the place to be.

As with anything else, you really need to work hard and be motivated to get ahead. It is very easy to get to a unit, hate your job, bitch all day and just count the months to your ETS. But if you put in the work, physically and mentally, there is no reason he cant be a tier 0 navy seal delta sniper raider, astronaut, or whatever else you want to be.

I think some of us are just hoping the kid has explored all of his options before making his decision to become a Soldier. I wish him the best of luck.

Damn right I'm on production and I've grown an ever loving fucking hatred aimed towards 17-20 year olds

Well, my scenario is dependent on some changes occurring in the political landscape.  I do not disagree with your point that if things continue on their current path, it will be a really shitty place to be.

And you are right, that I did not experience what was going on in the Army in the 90s.  I was just an Air Force kid who's dad worked in an office and wore a blue uniform to work.  My perspective of garrison Army is only based on a couple (recent) years and stories from SNCOs, which didn't seem too bad.

How do you think the draw down today would compare to the 90s drawn down, considering the amount of combat veterans we have now when compared to then?  My hunch is worse morale and less motivation, but I'd love to hear your thoughts along with anyone else who was around the Infantry back then.

Its very, very different, having gone through both.

IN the 90s were were simply a shrinking army with very few social changes.

now?  the army exists to drive society towards a gloriously progressive future.

It would fail if we ever actually fought wars and cared about winning, but we don't do that so it is really irrelevant.  

DMV in uniform defines 95% of uniformed service.

The problem with being at war for a 14 years is that a lot of the very best people that you want to retain will simply not be able to stomach serving in a garrison army. These same people are often the officers and NCOs that make units function so well, they are the warfighters who love practicing their profession, whether it be hard but realistic training, or the actual chance to face shoot bad guys. You stick these people where the training schedule revolves around bullshit mandatory check the block classes on social issues and shitty training and they will either try to go to Selection or they will simply get out. Which is great for the garrison minded commanders and NCOs, who have had issues with the warfighters since the GWOT started and they were forced to stop with a lot of the bullshit garrison mentality stuff.

I caught the tale of the 90s Clinton years in the USMC, where my unit in Hawaii got shit for training money compared to east coast units who deployed in MEUs who got the experience of shit like Kosovo. It has to be a sad state of affairs when only a few units are given the funds to train to a higher standard, and the reason is a bullshit mission like the Balkans. In most grunt units there simply weren't funds available to do anything fun. Sure, every once in a while you may get to do a joint training exercise with other countries, but those shouldn't actually be teaching you anything new about standard US Army stuff. The Army simply isn't going to have the money to do a proper crawl, walk, run on all the important Skill Level 1 tasks, let alone the complex collective training tasks.

The worst part is that the downsizing will drastically alter the way promotions and retention is done. Officers and NCOs who have made any mistake will be culled out, anything less than all "Excellence" rating on their evaluation reports means they will be down in order. The best way to prevent doing something that can risk getting a Success or Needs Improvement mark is to not risk doing them. The risk adverse military we have now was a direct result of officers and NCOs raised during the Clinton years, guys who went completely out of their way to avoid any risks in training or operationally or in garrison, so they wouldn't get hemmed up on the OERs and NCOERs. Now those guys are GENs, COLs, and SGMs. And the new need to cut the force will allow them to repeat the same shit from the 90s, because that's what they know, what they are comfortable with. You have to realize that a whole generation of career officers and NCOs spent a decade of their career not doing anything but trying to get promoted, no combat, no significant training (military budget was slashed then too). It became a real dog eat dog situation, and the lots of the wrong people got promoted. Its going to happen again now, all the conditions are set. The big war ended, budget is cut, social justice programs are being pushed over warfighting efficiency, RIF issues for promotion and selection of assignments.

For the E1-E4, most of them won't really see that much difference because they wont really know what the right thing looks like. All the people still in the active Army at this point that have combat patches are probably going to be E-5s and above, who can't change anything anyway. Lots of more senior guys hovering at 20-25 years who are just marking time till they can put their papers in and retire, those guys usually dropped their rucks and aren't going to try to change anything either. No one will be left that actively desires to be squared away, at least not in the conventional forces.

Painting rocks, mowing lawns, cleaning already clean weapons and vehicles. Doing lots of PT, where your score on the APFT will near completely define you as a Soldier. Less combat training, especially any sorts that are risky at all, which are usually the best types of training. Less school money (units wont get funds to send people TDY). Overall, bad times are coming and they look to be that they are here to stay.

If you just want to do 3 so you can be patriotic, go for it. If you give a shit and want to be a warfighter, go Selection or don't go at all. Wait until the next big war and join then, hoping you still have the age, physical, and life choices that allow you to do it.

Or just join the Army Guard and you can play soldier on weekends while still building an actual career. When the real war starts, and shit goes back to what it should, transfer to active if your desire to serve God and country is worth the sacrifice of your civilian career and family.

This.