I can't tell much from the video.  I know Deters and am not sure where he is really coming from on this.  He was getting as emotional as John Boehner in his press conference.  I think this may be a well orchestrated plan to maintain order in the City and let the court settle things.  The City admin is sure bending over backwards to hold the cop accountable, but what else could they do?  There is no other result but to push this through the courts - kick the can down the road - which is the right thing to do IMO.  To my knowledge there have been no problems downtown but I left around 4pm.  The whole situation is questionable enough so as not to be dismissible without a trial.  If the PO is acquitted, shit will fly.  But for now it's all rainbows and unicorns - hopefully.

Just another reminder for all the cavalier CCW guys out there.  You shoot someone, your life will never be the same.  This PO may get off, but he's a different person now.

unblurred video has been posted in this thread. too much motion to catch but what difference would it make if he was trying to hold onto the suspect or getting dragged. it happened so fast i doubt a conscious decision was made either way once the car was moving. Seems like he was trying to apprehend a dude who was trying to flee.

Deters is trying to appease the masses. I don't put much stock into what he says. And if all he's got to go on is the video, he can't tell if the officer was being dragged anymore than you or I can. Non-blurred video is out there.

First instinct in that situation would be to grab and hold on, that's a major reason why you don't reach in to cars.

So glad I don't work the street anymore. What admins/governments want these days isn't police work. They don't want people out there flipping rocks and looking for criminals. If I was still in patrol, my proactive work would be somewhere in the neighborhood of zero. I'd go out, take my reports, make 8, and head to the house.

For the guys stuck on the aspects of the dragging. What is an acceptable amount before the cop should take action? How far should he be dragged and how caught up does he need to be? Does he have the right to use deadly force to prevent being dragged in the first place? For those saying he should have just backed off, is that SOP while trying to remove someone from a vehicle? Did he have time to back off when the car started moving forward or did he think he might get caught up and dragged down the road? These are split second decisions.

SHHH... i have had hours to contemplate the correct choice and see the various outcomes.

?

Yes I did. But i stand corrected, it was indeed a single shot. There was a lot of commotion in that 3-4 second span and I mistook some of the other rumblings as gunfire. That being said, a single shot may only further re-emphasize my belief that this was a bad shoot. "Getting dragged and fearful for my life" and my first reaction is single shot point blank to the head?   Again... To me the natural reaction would be to get the hell away from the moving car, not draw a weapon and kill.

Well, I think I may have possibly figured out why he pulled his handgun.

Here are a couple video clips from a couple frames before the officer's pistol came into view.  As the officer was putting his hand inside the vehicle, the driver reached up towards it.  It appears from the second clip, while the driver was revving the engine, he had grabbed onto the cops arm:




As soon as the gun is within view of the driver, his hand releases the officer's arm and starts moving up towards the side of his head.  About 6-7 frames after the clip above, the fatal shot is fired.  Here is a clip from the time of the shot:



The officer does not appear to be caught on anything (and in fact almost appears to be grabbing onto the driver's shirt or seatbelt).  It seems he probably made the decision to fire as the guy was holding onto his arm.  He drew (most likely, IMO) with the intention of stopping the driver, but by the time the shot was fired he was no longer being held on to.  

Make of all this what you will, but if the guy was actually grabbing onto him, I'm having a tough time calling this a 100% bad shoot.

I take it you believe that a man has an absolute right to run unless a judge and jury say he can't.

Yeah,  I agree.  I'd guess if it was, he might have been more concerned over the trouble of an ND resulting in death than "I was getting dragged so I shot."  But none of us know what he was thinking.  And then there's perspective bias to consider too.  I'm sure it looked a lot different to him than it did on camera, and on camera it was confusing around the shot.

The PO's claim that he feared being run over was being dismissed on local news shows this afternoon.  The one talking head said "how could he think he was going to be run over, he wasn't even in front of the car?"  A rear tire can run you over as well as the entire car I would think.  This is why the matter has to be heard in court where (hopefully) reason, logic, facts and the law will come to a proper judgment..

But I keep coming back to the same question... What does killing the driver accomplish in this scenario? If anything the limp foot presses down on the gas and you get dragged further.  The officer appears to be drawing as soon as the man reaches for the ignition but before the car budges.

The natural reaction to most is to run from fire but fire fighters run towards it. Its natural to run from gun fire but our soldiers run towards it every day. Its a natural reaction to flee criminals but men and women in uniform spend every day trying to apprehend them. I think the reaction to apprehend someone fleeing is a job requirement.

I could be way off however.  


I think the head shot was a lucky shot.

I used to live within walking distance of where it occurred, and am a UC graduate and current student so I am quite familiar with the area  There is no reason for campus police to be that far off campus, and almost all students living off campus to the south are on streets further west. There are also a lot better things for police in the area to be dealing with in the first place besides front license plates.   A few years ago I got pulled over by UCPD (on probasco, which never even enters into campus) for my jeep's 100% legal window tint "being too dark," and had my vehicle searched and let go.  I actually asked the officer if he was even in his jurisdiction and he kind of laughed as he replied that he was.  I do agree with Joe Deters that it was a "chicken shit stop" and think the reciprocity agreement UCPD has with CPD needs to be reviewed.  

I'm not a cop, but if i was I don't think I would be reaching into a car like that out of self preservation, but I guess shooting them works in that aspect too.  

I have watched the video a bunch of times now and I am just not seeing where "he was dragged way down the street," and I am certainly not seeing his arm stuck in the steering wheel which is what he reported.  To me looks like he may have stepped along with the car a couple times, just as long as it took to get his gun out.    I wish there was dashcam, and would like to see the other officer's bodycam as well if it was on.  From what I understand that officer will likely be facing charges as well over his report.

I normally side with the cops on these things, but in this one I don't think that shooting him in the head was justified.  Since I actually have to go to this area, I really won't mind if the the cop gets convicted as long as the city doesn't burn.  Anyone that lived here in 2001 remembers how bad it was and how much progress has happened in this city since then.  One thing that is for certain is the collaborative agreement that happened because of the 2001 riots is going to get a test now.

Also, I've never used front license plates in Ohio, some of my cars don't even have a bracket for them, and I see many other Ohio motorists without them.  I hope maybe this somehow causes the bill to get rid of FLP requirement to get passed, especially since most other states have already done so including our neighboring KY and IA.   I've been pulled over for them a few times, but never cited.  The front license plate thing is just a random way to pull someone over to give them a sobreity test or search their car, which is what I suspect was the case here.

I have ZERO problem with this shoot.

Drive piss ass wasted drunk and you deserve to die painfully.

Start up your car and try to drive off when a cop is talking to you? Die painfully.

Fuck Mr. Dubose. I hope his family gets to re-live that footage over and over in their heads, and think about how badly that had to have hurt.

Good shoot.

I'm not seeing that in the video.  Tensing was very calm and level headed... right up the soon to be dead guy hit the gas and everything went sideways.

To me, it looks like the man's left arm is reaching out To the steering wheel (not holding the officers arm) in that second frame. It looks like the officer is reaching through his arm to grab his shirt or seat belt.

And doing nothing gets him run over all the same. That guy was fixin  to mash the gas as apprent by starting the car and having that shit in drive ready to roll. In one scenario he may get the driver to stop. In the other the driver flees. His job is to apprehend him. Guy ending up deaded was just one of many possible outcomes all put in motion by his decision to flee.

zero..... fucks...... given.,....

I want to hear the Milwaukee Sheriff's take on this one.

No way, he was dragged.  It's impossible for a person to move from point A to point B without being dragged by a car!

Defense attorneys will have a field day with this "case".

Doing the quick math... Getting away safely from the car trumps one dead body and some jail time for me.  I have not heard a single defense lawyer (other than the officer involved) say this was a justifiable shooting. Even the CPD is applauding the decision to charge.

and how long did all that take to go down? a few seconds from the time he hit the ignition to the time the gun went off.. You got all sorts of time to analyze that. Its down right dishonest to hold the cop that sort scrutiny when he literally only had a second to decide.

I just watched again and from the time he hit the ignition to shot fired is 2 seconds.

Devils advocate here what if:


The cop called in the guy's name, saw he had a license (or didn't then things go differently), issued him a ticket for failure to produce, and called it a day? I thought the cop was being a bit dickish asking the same question multiple times when he knew the answer was going to be "I don't have my license" and I think the driver was being a bit dickish. In the end the two dicks collided and one person is dead. Cop should stand trial and when he is found not guilty of murder the city will burn.


 

I'm going with bad shoot here.

The CPD or the brass. The Politicians in cinci don't want their city burned down.

He needs to get Casey Anthony's attorney to be able to go up against O'Meara.

Hey Patty, looks like your LEO. What is the protocol in a car stop if a suspect reaches for the ignition? Is it instructed to open the car door or reach/lean inside the car?  Truly curious. No law enforcement experience.

Several local news reporters are claiming all street officers they've spoken to have been happy with the decision. I suppose they could just be following marching orders though.

According to Prosecutor Joe Deters the officer should of just let him drive away at that point. (Not being an ass, he really said that)

 
Not law enforcement but if I think the car is taking off I'm making sure my ass isn't holding on to it or half hanging out of the window. Seems like an awful lot of work for a missing front plate. The cop also seemed very comfortable with the guy reaching around the car for the plate, his license, and the bottle of gin.

CPD "applauding" the decision to charge really isn't saying much.  Agencies have been known to throw their own under the bus from time to time for no other reason than political expediency/calming the masses.  

I will agree, this shoot is right on that line of "good" and "bad", but you have to take the officer's perception of the events as they were happening into account before making the determination (without using hindsight I might add).  From the video frames I posted above, it does appear the driver was holding onto the officer's arm for at least part of the time.  

That, at least for me, leads me to assume that at some point in time, in that officer's head, he though he was trapped on the side of a car that was about to or was at the time fleeing.  I could be wrong, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager that's what happened.

ETA:  I don't think he's grabbing the steering wheel.  I added another clip to my post, which shows him reaching up for the officer's arm, just a few clips later we get to that second clip where you think he's holding onto the steering wheel.  With those two clips together, it certainly appears he was holding onto the officer, not a part of the car.

I am no mind reader, but I think at some point shortly before the cop opened the door he had already decided that he was going to arrest mr father of the year.  Most likely for not having a license, but if I were a betting man I would put $10 bucks on DUI/DWI being a distinct possibility as well.

It is also pretty obvious that not only was the officer dragged, but that Dubose turned his wheel to the left, bringing the car towards the officer, while accelerating.  I base this on the fact that when the officer stands up he is far into the oncoming traffic lane and the fact that Dubose had to veer left to clear the impala in front of him.

As long as the officer has a competent lawyer I foresee an acquittal in his future.

I guess where I am hung up is if I'm fixing to pull the guy out of the car I wouldn't be sticking my gun that far into the car. Your at a massive leverage disadvantage and your introducing the possibility of your gun going in the car while your being dragged.






You can let the car go, get in your car and pursue.


 

A stop, without more, is a lot of work for a missing front plate. I suspect that the cop thought something more was going on with this guy - and that the gin 'n' juice and the absent DL prove him right.

Would you still think that if it was you under scrutiny?  Or someone in your close family?

You can actually see the officer's SUV receding in the back ground as he is dragged if you look close.

Not to mention the fact he had 60+ prior arrests.

 
A first year med student could instill reasonable doubt.

Honestly fuck the black lives matter movent.  this guy doesn't matter, he was a low life piece of shit, probably gang affiliated and this all happens because homeboy wants to try and run from the police and because his worthless culture taught him to be a little fucking g and run from the police and disrespect the police.  Stupid actions result in Stupid endings.  Got what was coming to him.  Don't give a single fuck.  Good for the officer, fleeing in a weapon that weighs a couple thousand pounds, and I'm certain this POS wouldn't have minded running over a few people to get away.

Cop had no background on the guy before the stop. Car came back to a female so there should have been no context other than a missing front plate and a guy failing to produce a license. The whole alcohol thing was what it was but the container did not appear to be open.

 


I'm not defending anything other than talking about my observations


 

ETA: this is why I'll never be a cop.

This trial will be based more off of feels than facts. Hope he doesn't get a crappy jury.

You can focus on one line but yea, the front license plate law in ohio is bullshit, campus police have no business being in that area off campus, I think the whole thing could have been handled differently, and don't think the video to me looks like a good shoot.

For the record. The video on the televised news is slightly different from the full one I've caught online..the driving away part seems aaaa lot shorter on television.

With that many arrests, is it possible the officers knew who he was when they made the stop?

It is an element of the policeman's trade to distinguish between people who probably just don't have a front license plate and people who don't have a front license plate and are probably industrial-grade shitbags, and to invest time in the latter.

It just caught my attention, I skimmed through it