Quoted:
These two statements are contradictory. Obviously if you are "striving" it means "working"; therefore what do you have to do to "strive to repent?"  Why did you state this was a free gift before? Why do you state it's not work, then use a term that means work? If we have to strive, that DOES mean we are unworthy, by the logic here. You say it's not Mormon Doctrine above, but then you contradict by saying it's everything you say it isn't.    

strive
verb
gerund or present participle: striving

1. make great efforts to achieve or obtain something.
   "national movements were striving for independence"
   
   
   • struggle or fight vigorously.
     "scholars must strive against bias"
     

     synonyms:

     try (hard), attempt, endeavor, aim, venture, make an effort, exert oneself, do one's best, do all one can, do one's utmost, labor, work;More

     
     
     
     
     
   
   

Quoted:


I felt like I did answer your question, and pointed you in the right direction for more information...?-?

www.lds.org is a wealth of information on the LDS Church...

Quoted:


There ain't no Somebody's wrong on the internet like someone being wrong about their religion on the internet.  

The shit that cannot be set straight must be set straight.

(I enjoy the hell out of it.)

Quoted:
 Here you contradict yourself again. You are promoting works-based faith, while claiming it's free. If you have to work, whether on faith, or on grace, it's not faith or grace. It's works.


Note your verses actually say the opposite of what you are trying to shoehorn them into. In Luke 13:24 Jesus specifically says people are not able, meaning that they will try to be saved of their own works, and that's not how it's done. It's by Christ's work only, as the Bible verses state above.


The Old Testament verses do say that; however, that we have the capacity to follow them is another. Paul said that we cannot in Romans 3:


"9.....for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”
13 "Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” "The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. Justification by Faith
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.


He reiterates this in Galatians 3, and explains again the purpose of the law:


23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, tin order that we might be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.


James concurs in chapter 2: "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it."


Again, saying you have to strive for faith is not faith. It's in fact works. Now I know why Mormons must strive. See, If I look up extractr's real name in a phone book, and see that there's someone else with the same name, is that the same extractr? No! It's someone completely different that merely has the same name. That's the case with the LDS Christ. It's not the actual Christ, just someone else with the same name. But as the Jesus of the Bible said: "for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able." The fact that you try to enter of your own ability is part off the problem, the other part is following another god with the same name. The same will happen with those who follow money-preachers like Joel Osteen and his ilk, as well as the JWs.


As for the diagram I posted, it's actually spot-on with what the LDS actually teaches, so please don't be dishonest and omit your church's actual teachings. Trying to redefine Biblical terms in order to fool people isn't Christlike.








 

Quoted:

  Pratt was a man that spent his time with Smith. If anyone knew what Smith meant, he was most qualified; and he understood that Smith meant that those who saw Smith prophecy would see the construction of the Temple. They didn't.
 

Quoted:
The righteous will most likely be awarded accordingly and have a different wife unless he chooses to be with the other, just a guess no one knows for sure. Women will be a queen priestess or goddess

Quoted:
Where did I say you have to strive for faith?   I said we should strive to repent.  Using your definition, that means we should attempt or endeavor to repent.  Do you disagree with that?    Do you consider repenting "works"?  



Repenting is no more "works" than saying you accept Christ is.



If you claim Mormons believe they are saved by works because they believe they must repent , then you also believe you are saved by works, because you must put forth the effort to "say you accept Christ".  If you don't put forth that effort or "works" to say in your heart or with your lips that you believe,  you will not be saved.  



Repentance and baptism  are just Mormons way of saying they believe and accept Christ.  Once that is done,  his Grace takes over and washes away our sins.  
You are missing the whole point, and keep claiming Mormons believe they are saved by their works.  That is where both you and your diagram are wrong.   It is not a "work your way up" as you keep wrongly pushing.    Mormons believe and teach that we fall away from a childlike innocence through sin,  and only Christs grace can pull us back up.  Our works do nothing to save us.





Mormons see  the commandments and the Lord's teachings as the basic minimum that he expects us to live. You see it as the maximum we can do and that all men naturally are not going to do any of it.



The Lord's words apply to more then just washing feet:

"For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."





All of us should live as Christ taught.  Are you doing  "works" if you are just living your life in accordance with the Bible?   Most good people do strive to live that way (not in the name of doing works, but just living life), but all will fall short of Christ's example, and thus God's Kingdom.  Thus the Grace of Christ overcomes those sins when we accept him and repent.  



THAT is Mormon doctrine.  Maybe you can grasp that it is different then a bunch of people bent on slandering the church have told you your whole life.  Then again, you probably won't.  



I know what our doctrine is.  I hear and teach it every week.   It is NOT what you claim it is.



I agree with every scripture you posted there,  and it fit's ACTUAL Mormon doctrine perfectly.  





I guess you are still stuck on the Mormon "doctrine" you invented.  I agree,  your version of it does not match the Bible.

Quoted:


The Mormon church claims to have a living "prophet, seer, and revelator" who is supposedly in communication with God, and leads the church through continuing revelation.  I find it odd that with a continual chain of living prophets, the last revelation canonized as scripture happened in 1918.  Are there visions, prophesies, and revelations that have happened since then?  If so, where can we read them?  If not, what are the "prophets, seers, and revelators" actually doing?

Quoted:


So it looks like 15 additional rules on top of the 613 commandments! Ones no one could follow! This doesn't have to do with a free gift of grace!

Quoted:


Does the original transcription, made by a prophet, in a prophet's hand, of 2 Nephi 30:6, say WHITE and delightsome, or PURE and delightsome?  When Spencer Kimball (a Mormon prophet) talked about American Indians becoming white and delightsome, did he believe that the Indians were actually becoming white (as the scripture said, prior to it being changed), or was he somehow confused?

Quoted:

 

See, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. "Striving" = work. How does one "strive to repent"? Whether or not it's salvation, faith, or repentance, striving to do any of these means it's a perpetual struggle towards an accomplishment of a goal. You further reinforce this interpretation with your claims that "commandments...[are] the basic minimum"; hence your little comment about "sitting back and doing nothing".  Do you not read Romans? Ephesians? Galatians? Proverbs? We CAN'T follow the law, that's the point. If we could, then Christ's sacrifice was in vain, as Paul stated in Galatians 2:21, quoted above.


Here's the problem NO ONE can follow all 613 commandments; only Christ did. Again in Romans:


10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”


23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.


Furthermore, trying to keep the OT Law is detrimental, per Galatians 5:4: "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."


See, you talk about faith and repentance, but then tack on much more, and that betrays your claim of grace through faith.


Look at the doctrine of exaltation, with all it's requirements:


1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.


In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
2. Keep the commandments.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
9. Study the scriptures.
10. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.




So it looks like 15 additional rules on top of the 613 commandments! Ones no one could follow! This doesn't have anything to do with a free gift of grace!




Then there's the second issue: just because you say you do these things in the name of Christ doesn't mean you actually do. This is why young Mormons struggle so much. They don't know the real Christ, they haven't received the actual Holy Spirit so they just accept it or give up.

Quoted:


The original manuscript, that was on display a few years ago in the museum... And private sellers have copied the original transcripts and you can buy them on amazon (among other sellers)...

Includes "pure." Not white. Publishing and printing errors can be matched to the original.

The statement from Kimball was many years before he led the LDS Church as Prophet... and it's possible that he had not seen the original manuscript... And Kimballs statement was not particularly wrong... There are some Natives who stay on the Reservation, abuse the system and abuse substances. Child abuse, and crimes against children are rampant on the reservation. It is statically in the 90-100% range of children on reservations who are sexually assaulted.

And some *leave* the Reservation... And change.

Kimball was talking about those who leave the reservation...

The ones who get educated and make themselves better *do* act better... And the "white" in his edition was one error that was found to have perpetuated through the years.

And "white" does sometimes mean "pure" in a religious term. Wedding dresses being white, for instance...

But Kimball was right, in the sense that natives who leave the Reservation, and overcome and change bad behavior and habits do become better people... In a religious sense... I think Kimball had seen natives change bad behavior, and their lives, and attitudes changed for the better. I doubt he had seen any actually become "white." He was speaking in a religious, and purity sense...

And the *original* transcripts say "pure."

Quoted:


Only one part of being a prophet is to produce formal scripture. Another part is to protect the scripture of those who came before.

Young did not produce any formal scriptures... He grew the LDS Church in a very, very difficult period of time. He settled the West... And he ensured that no changes were made in the writings of Smith.

He testified of Christ, and grew (exponentially) Christs Church.

The role *can* be producing scripture. It can also be expanding Christs Church and preparing The Church for the second coming...

Some of the *early* apostles spent time and energy resisting apostasy... Acts 20:29-31

Quoted:


And again, you haven't answered the question.  Have there been visions, prophecy's and revelations since 1918?  If so, where can we read them?  If not, why are those men called "prophets, seers, and revelators" if they aren't prophesying, having visions, and receiving revelations?

These are simple questions.  Are you trying to hide something by not answering them?

Quoted:
So are you saying Jesus was wrong using that word?





Luke 13:24


   Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.  
So how do you justify the "work" you do when you accept Christ?  It takes a conscious effort or work to do so.  Without that work,  you cannot be saved, right?





I agree, that no man can obey all the commandments.  But that is the standard the Lord set, and told us to live. (they are called commandments, not suggestions, for a reason) Because none of us will obey them all,  we must repent and accept Christ's grace to lift us up.
You are still looking at it from the completely wrong perspective.  You are looking at it as a climb from low to high.   Mormons see it that we are already on top at birth, and fall away as we live.  It is not "works" that lift us back up, no matter how many we do.  Because of the sin,  we are already not worthy of God's presence.  Only Christs grace can pull us back up.

Quoted:

  What I'm saying is Christ didn't say what you are trying to make Him say; in fact, He said the opposite. You can't work your way into heaven on your own merit, "seek to enter in, and shall not be able". In fact, the following verse, in light of Matthew 24, seems to imply it's people who sought after false Christs, or really didn't seek after Christ, but followed themselves:


25  "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’
26  "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;
27  and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
28  "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.


There are a lot of people who pretend to be Christians, but in fact, follow a counterfeit Jesus. They refuse to repent, because things other than God are more important to them. Remember what Jesus said in Luke 12:


51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”


God wants people who put their identity in Him. Those who don't, don't truly follow God. That includes family and church; not saying those aren't important, but they should never be the most important thing, that if you find the real Jesus, you shouldn't refuse to follow Him because your family and church may shun you. At that point, you follow those things more than you follow God.


Now as for the commandments, you are backpedaling here. You said, "Mormons see the commandments and the Lord's teachings as the basic minimum that he expects us to live." That is saying that no less with be accepted.


As for, "Mormons see it that we are already on top at birth, and fall away as we live" that contradicts the Bible, which says:


Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Genesis 8:21 - And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ezekiel 28:15 - Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 22:15 - Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Job 15:14-16 - What [is] man, that he should be clean? and [he which is] born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
1 John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.






 

Quoted:

  What I'm saying is Christ didn't say what you are trying to make Him say; in fact, He said the opposite. You can't work your way into heaven on your own merit, "seek to enter in, and shall not be able". In fact, the following verse, in light of Matthew 24, seems to imply it's people who sought after false Christs, or really didn't seek after Christ, but followed themselves:


25  "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’
26  "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;
27  and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
28  "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.


There are a lot of people who pretend to be Christians, but in fact, follow a counterfeit Jesus. They refuse to repent, because things other than God are more important to them. Remember what Jesus said in Luke 12:


51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”


God wants people who put their identity in Him. Those who don't, don't truly follow God. That includes family and church; not saying those aren't important, but they should never be the most important thing, that if you find the real Jesus, you shouldn't refuse to follow Him because your family and church may shun you. At that point, you follow those things more than you follow God.


Now as for the commandments, you are backpedaling here. You said, "Mormons see the commandments and the Lord's teachings as the basic minimum that he expects us to live." That is saying that no less with be accepted.


As for, "Mormons see it that we are already on top at birth, and fall away as we live" that contradicts the Bible, which says:


Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Genesis 8:21 - And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ezekiel 28:15 - Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 22:15 - Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Job 15:14-16 - What [is] man, that he should be clean? and [he which is] born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
1 John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.






 

Quoted:

  There is no work; there is repentance, a change in direction. It isn't something you work at. This is why people who accept the real Christ display such a change in personality and direction, a true change, not fake smiles and the feeling of, "carrying a burden so that God can like me" kind of false change.


There is the process of sanctification by the Holy Spirit where we learn and grow, but that comes after salvation. That is not a struggle, nor involves "striving".

Quoted:
So you are now saying repentance is not work?   Just a few posts ago when I mentioned that Mormons accept Christ through repentance,  you were claiming it as work.
Talk about contradicting yourself.
You believe in ordered to be saved,  you must accept Christ.   How do you accept him without performing a task or work? Even if it is just proclaiming you believe,  it is still a work you must do to be saved.    If you use your standard that you are trying to apply to Mormons,  it is because of the work you do (saying you accept Christ) that you are saved.   If you don't do that task,  according to what you have said,  you are damned.

Quoted:
Did you notice that definition of work you posted listed many definitions for the word strive?  There was also "endeavor", or "make an effort".  I guess you ignored them and chose work, because you feel it slandered Mormons better.
So you say repentance is required,  but we should not make an effort or endeavor to do it.   Got it.   No contradiction there.
You also still haven't answered the question I posted.
You believe in ordered to be saved,  you must accept Christ.   How do you accept him without performing a task or work? Even if it is just proclaiming you believe,  it is still a work you must do to be saved.    If you use your standard that you are trying to apply to Mormons,  it is because of the work you do (saying you accept Christ) that you are saved.   If you don't do that task,  according to what you have said,  you are damned.

Quoted:

  I guess you got this when I posted the edit above. The LDS has redefined repentance from the Biblical meaning, turning it into something perpetual and ongoing in order to attain eventual salvation, and ingrained concepts like "keeping the commandments" and "no longer sinning" as a condition for repentance, when as we already learned, the Bible says is impossible for us to do, because if we could, the OT Law would be sufficient.


The LDS concept of repentance:


Repentance: The process by which a member receives forgiveness. True repentance involves six steps, including confession and a successful abandonment of sins. According to a number of church manuals:

• "8. He removes our sins if we keep his commandments” (Uniform System for Teaching Investigators, 1961, p. 55).
• "10. We repent by no longer sinning” (Uniform System for Teaching Investigators, 1961, p. 55).
• "What must we do to become ‘a saint’? (Repent so that the atonement of Christ will apply to us; become as a child of God)” (Achieving Individual Spirituality – Sunday School Course 17, 1984, p. 11).
• "To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 125).
• "As we repent, the atonement of Jesus becomes fully effective in our lives, and the Lord forgives our sins” (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 126).
• "Forsaketh (v.1) – Repents of, gives up and never does again” (Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Student Guide, 2001, p. 106. Referring to D&C 93)
• "Our Father in heaven does not sin, and He does not allow people who sin to live with Him. To live with Him, we must repent of our sins. To repent means to feel sorry for our sins and stop doing them” (Gospel Fundamentals, 2002, p. 67).
• "What do we have to do to show we have truly repented? (Confess our sins and forsake them)” (Preparing for Exaltation, p. 68).

Now the Biblical concept of repentance:


"Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.” (Acts 3:29)


The Greek for repent is metanoeo, "from G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):—repent."


So it's just as Peter said, a changing of mind. It's not something that needs to be ongoing for hope of eventual salvation; it's something instant and lasting. You repent --> you accept Christ --> you are saved.

  ETA: again, it does no good if you repent and believe in a false Jesus.

Quoted:

  What I'm saying is Christ didn't say what you are trying to make Him say; in fact, He said the opposite. You can't work your way into heaven on your own merit, "seek to enter in, and shall not be able". In fact, the following verse, in light of Matthew 24, seems to imply it's people who sought after false Christs, or really didn't seek after Christ, but followed themselves:


25  "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’
26  "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’;
27  and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’
28  "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.


There are a lot of people who pretend to be Christians, but in fact, follow a counterfeit Jesus. They refuse to repent, because things other than God are more important to them. Remember what Jesus said in Luke 12:


51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”


God wants people who put their identity in Him. Those who don't, don't truly follow God. That includes family and church; not saying those aren't important, but they should never be the most important thing, that if you find the real Jesus, you shouldn't refuse to follow Him because your family and church may shun you. At that point, you follow those things more than you follow God.


Now as for the commandments, you are backpedaling here. You said, "Mormons see the commandments and the Lord's teachings as the basic minimum that he expects us to live." That is saying that no less with be accepted.


As for, "Mormons see it that we are already on top at birth, and fall away as we live" that contradicts the Bible, which says:


Ecclesiastes 7:20 - For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Psalms 51:5 - Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psalms 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Romans 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Genesis 8:21 - And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Ezekiel 28:15 - Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Jeremiah 17:9 - The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Proverbs 22:15 - Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
Job 15:14-16 - What [is] man, that he should be clean? and [he which is] born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
1 John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.






 

Quoted:

  See, your own church website says you have to do this:


1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.


In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
2. Keep the commandments.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
9. Study the scriptures.
10. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.



Then earlier you said, "the commandments and the Lord's teachings as the basic minimum that he expects us to live." So how can you tell me in one post it's all about faith, then turn around and say this, then say it's about faith in the next? You're hanging onto this cognitive dissonance like your getting paid for it.


As far as "being like little children" you can't ignore the 12 verses I posted about being born with sin in favor of an eisegetic argument using this one verse. Now what destroys your argument here is the very verse you posted:


4 "Whoever then humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."


So first, Christ isn't referring to the lack of sin, but the inherent humility of worldview that a child has. Second, Christ says "is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven", as opposed to 'will get to the kingdom of heaven'; so it's not a matter of salvation.


As for your Adam and Eve eisegesis, it's demolished by Paul:


12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


   Romans 5:12-21


See, the idea that we are born perfect, then sin, is completely unsupported by scripture, when used in an exegetical manner.


Again, your claims as to salvation are worthless if it involves a counterfeit Jesus, which it does.

Quoted:


"Kind of necessary" or not, its going to get the thread locked.

Just pick out specific statements to address and don't quote the whole thing.