User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 12:09:29 PM EDT
[#1]
We've discussed this quite a lot in the survival forums and frankly their biggest enemy is the corrupt culture of their entire nation. It's like cutting off welfare here entirely and telling the FSA to go find jobs. There would be rioting everywhere for like a year. I would think it's great, but people would end up killed. Here in the US I think we could quell riots eventually if we get enough enforcement behind it, but in Greece? No. Riots begin and there'd be some seriousl revolution shit happening inside a month.
I do think their best best is to exit the euro entirely and start printing drachmas again. The people in general are going to lose one way or another, so at least if Greece can print their own money again they regain some control of their economy to an extent. The challenge then becomes getting the drachma to actually gain value because starting it up again it's pretty much worthless. The big thing Greece has going for them is that tourism is like their #1 industry. If people can vacation there for seriously cheap rates, tourists will definitely come. Within a few years things could definitely stabilize a little, hell maybe even prosper again. But they are going to have to cut expenses with all these pensions and .gov handouts. Reality will slap them in the face eventually but that's how I'd go about it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:27:05 PM EDT
[#2]
This is really two questions:
1. What would you do if you were dictator of Greece? 2. What would you do if you were the elected leader of Greece, and had to answer to the existing democratic system? These are two entirely different things. If I were dictator, I would ditch the euro, print drachmas, and slap a moratorium on debt payments. It would really hurt for a while, but in the end the country would be better for it. If I were the elected leader, I would be doing exactly what Tsipras is doing. His options are limited, given that 80% of Greeks want to stay in the euro. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:28:19 PM EDT
[#3]
Exit euro, print Drachma, settle in for massive hyperinflation, get it over with and rebuild.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:35:44 PM EDT
[#4]
I hear they have beautiful tourism opportunities.
I also hear they have hookers and blow. So, Hookers and Blow |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:38:55 PM EDT
[#5]
nevermind
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:46:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Move to a country that doesn't suck, nuke it from orbit.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:48:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Move to the US open a Greek dinner make tons of money and retire to Florida.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:52:30 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm not big on theft, so since the citizens of that country decided to borrow and borrow and borrow, with no apparent intent to ever repay. I'd start off by confiscating every bank account, both business and personal from everybody, politicians included. Repay the debt, and burn the rest. Fuck'em.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:58:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Print Euros non-stop and offer to make the loan payments in cash.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 1:59:10 PM EDT
[#10]
What they need to focus on is tax reform and a sweeping anti-graft campaign.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:00:10 PM EDT
[#11]
1)Contact some proper economists to advice me.
2)Heed their advice 3)Lose reelection when parliament dissolves in response to my actions |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:00:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is really two questions: 1. What would you do if you were dictator of Greece? 2. What would you do if you were the elected leader of Greece, and had to answer to the existing democratic system? These are two entirely different things. If I were dictator, I would ditch the euro, print drachmas, and slap a moratorium on debt payments. It would really hurt for a while, but in the end the country would be better for it. If I were the elected leader, I would be doing exactly what Tsipras is doing. His options are limited, given that 80% of Greeks want to stay in the euro. No dictator would want it as there is no money left to steal  but I guess you could sell off the ancient ruins or charge ISIS to come in and destroy them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:01:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not big on theft, so since the citizens of that country decided to borrow and borrow and borrow, with no apparent intent to ever repay. I'd start off by confiscating every bank account, both business and personal from everybody, politicians included. Repay the debt, and burn the rest. Fuck'em. Be careful. The citizens of the United States have "... decided to borrow and borrow and borrow ...". How would you feel if your accounts were confiscated to help pay the local, state and Federal debts? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:01:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exit euro, print Drachma, settle in for massive hyperinflation, get it over with and rebuild. This... Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:02:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Cabinet of whores. Whorbinet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:02:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Drop out of Euro
Offer Russia & China Mediterranean land for bases in exchange for paying off debts |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:03:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This... Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Exit euro, print Drachma, settle in for massive hyperinflation, get it over with and rebuild. This... Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Abolish minimum wage, go full-on Jeffersonian and try to attract capital. Get rid of all gun laws to attract Arfcom money. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:03:47 PM EDT
[#18]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:03:51 PM EDT
[#19]
If I were in charge of Greece I would have sold everything, taken my money and family somewhere else.
Their economy is fucked no matter what now, and the wrong move will mean shortages of things people Need to survive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:03:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Massive top-to-bottom audit of the government by an outside firm. Followed by massive anti-corruption arrests, trials and punishments.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:04:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This... Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Exit euro, print Drachma, settle in for massive hyperinflation, get it over with and rebuild. This... Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Yup, something along these lines. They need an apparatus to collect taxes and a means through which to fight corruption. The economy is small, they can employ tons of folks with the Tourism industry alone. . . . . it may even be easier just to use the US dollar as a defacto currency (many African countries do this) |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:06:13 PM EDT
[#22]
At this point?
Resign. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:08:18 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm no economist so I guess I'd just do hot greek chicks.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:10:58 PM EDT
[#24]
set charges, destroy it in-place.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:11:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Shall we rearrange some deck chairs? Surely that'll save the ship! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:12:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be careful. The citizens of the United States have "... decided to borrow and borrow and borrow ...". How would you feel if your accounts were confiscated to help pay the local, state and Federal debts? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm not big on theft, so since the citizens of that country decided to borrow and borrow and borrow, with no apparent intent to ever repay. I'd start off by confiscating every bank account, both business and personal from everybody, politicians included. Repay the debt, and burn the rest. Fuck'em. Be careful. The citizens of the United States have "... decided to borrow and borrow and borrow ...". How would you feel if your accounts were confiscated to help pay the local, state and Federal debts? Unless I am mistaken, America is making payments on our debt, granted that it seems to be a fools errand, but Greece was doing nothing but giving the middle finger to the EU for their monthly payments. So I maintain my Fuck'em attitude, until I'm re-educated and am shown that Greece was actually paying back or attempting to pay back their loans. Awaits re-education. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:13:08 PM EDT
[#27]
I would invade a poorly defended oil-rich nation.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:15:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Greeks need to stop being Greek.
They have a cultural problem that goes far beyond just an economic one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:16:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not big on theft, so since the citizens of that country decided to borrow and borrow and borrow, with no apparent intent to ever repay. I'd start off by confiscating every bank account, both business and personal from everybody, politicians included. Repay the debt, and burn the rest. Fuck'em. Default isn't exactly the same as theft, it requires a willing lender. Much (if not most) of the Greek debt was issued by lenders that should have damn well known that it couldn't be paid back. In cases like this the lender bears a level of responsibility as well, and stupid lending should hurt, as should stupid borrowing. If you loan $1000 to a homeless crack head, I think you deserve to lose your investment. If you're lucky, that loss will teach you that lending bears risk, and hopefully you'll learn to be more prudent when choosing who to loan money to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:20:16 PM EDT
[#30]
If I were in charge? You mean like having full and absolute control?
1) Have a mountain of cash delivered to my palace. 2) Make sure my security detail knows the only way they get access to said mountain is to keep me alive. 3) Start a program for young ladies who are down on their luck. They can apply to be a topless handmaiden in the palace. Or a totally naked pool girl, depending on the interview process. 4) I'd apply for an American Express card. 5) Fortify an island for my eventual exile. 6) Then I'd call the Germans and start begging and whining for a re-negotiated debt settlement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 2:20:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Retire and run away.
That question is worse than asking "If you were mayor of Baltimore, how would you fix it?" |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:34:22 PM EDT
[#32]
That's part of my point. Everyone knows they are fucked so why should they now down to the EU. Maybe if they blow it up they will feel a little pain and learn from it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:43:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's part of my point. Everyone knows they are fucked so why should they now down to the EU. Maybe if they blow it up they will feel a little pain and learn from it. They won't learn shit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:45:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quit my job.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:45:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Check all bunkers for Garands, M1 Carbines, HXP .308, 30.06 and .303 ammo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:47:08 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm going to go with "whores". They should whore their way into prosperity.
They could also start selling meth; I hear that's relatively profitable. And it creates more whore, so it's really like a double-win. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:53:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Cheezborgey... Cheezborgey... Cheezborgey... No coke, Pepsi.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:54:12 PM EDT
[#38]
I'd pay a quick visit to the island of Lesbos then swim the English Channel.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:55:36 PM EDT
[#39]
I'd look at what Chile did in 1973 after Pinochet took power.
Free market reforms, murder the communists and make them flee for their lives. Have a junta in power until a transition to a leftist-free democracy was possible. Eliminate all the fraudulent civil service pensions and fraudulent disability claims. Declare amnesty for past tax cheating productive citizens if they came clean going forward with a new regime that would be fair and uncorruptable. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/7/2015 11:56:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Revolution.
Turn it into the land of liberty. Kind of line the USA was back in 1789. Investments would come pouring in when there is little regulation. Both online/internet/tech and manufacturing. Tourism would flourish with ALL drugs and whores being legal. I'd do my best to negotiate with creditors. Paying what you owe is part of integrity. I would use the military to "enforce freedom" No welfare, no nothing. If you don't work, you don't eat and if you don't like it, gtfo. If you cause trouble, burn shit down, etc, the military will be on every corner to arrest you and put you in jail.
Once people get used to the liberty/responsibility paradigm, we could switch to a proper police force whos primary goal was to serve the public. Not harass innocent people, looking for reasons to arrest any and everyone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:19:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd look at what Chile did in 1973 after Pinochet took power. Free market reforms, murder the communists and make them flee for their lives. Have a junta in power until a transition to a leftist-free democracy was possible. Eliminate all the fraudulent civil service pensions and fraudulent disability claims. Declare amnesty for past tax cheating productive citizens if they came clean going forward with a new regime that would be fair and uncorruptable. This is a great idea and what I would do but Greeks would not abide by Austrian school economics and the iron fist needed to keep the Commies in check would result in being a pariah state. As I said,it's a cultural problem and until Greeks realize that they are responsible for their fate,the country is hopeless. They need to have a moment like on South Park "I broke the dam". |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:22:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to go with "whores". They should whore their way into prosperity. They could also start selling meth; I hear that's relatively profitable. And it creates more whore, so it's really like a double-win. Solid. I'm going with this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:31:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Pilfer treasury.
Flee to a non extradition country. ???????? Profit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:40:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Ditch the EU. Confiscate all Euros in the country, make it illegal to accept it as currency from citizens and print Drachmas. Cut the income tax to zero, implement a 40% sales tax that drops 1% per year for 30 years. Stop all welfare payments and cut government pensions by 50%. Shoot rioters and looters and hang their bodies in public. Sell all military hardware to anyone with money. Sell 40 year leases on beach front property for exhorbitant amounts of money. Sell 40 year leases to seaports to anyone with loads of cash.
In 40 years the country would be out of debt and back on it's feet. The survivors would thank me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:46:34 AM EDT
[#45]
Drink lots and lots of ouzo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:47:48 AM EDT
[#46]
Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Income tax is notoriously hard to collect in Greece. Doesn't matter what the rate is. The people who end up paying income tax are the wage earners and pensioners, who have it withheld from their wages/pensions. Everyone else, such as independent professionals, tradesmen, business owners, etc., works off the books or "cooks the books." There is therefore perceived unfairness which undermines the whole tax system. In an attempt to stem tax evasion, Greek tax law has some unique provisions, such as the concept of "constructive income." There's a section of the tax form that requires listing of all major expenses, such as rent, groceries, car expenses, school tuition, etc. If these expenses are more than the declared income, the taxpayer has to explain the difference, or else pay tax on the expenses instead of the income. (Auditors spend more time auditing expenses than income per se.) The real revenue-raiser is the value-added tax, or VAT. This is supposedly self-enforcing, since it applies to all levels of the chain -- producer to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer, retailer to consumer. Each level of the chain gets a credit for the tax it paid to the previous level of the chain. The problem is that at a 23% rate (the proposed rate demanded by the international lenders), it kills the economy. Then there's the real estate tax. To avoid manipulation of the tax base, instead of market values it uses so-called "objective values" which arbitrarily assign "zone values" by neighborhood, and multiply them by square footage (square meters,actually). These "objective values," even if once considered fair, now have no connection to reality. The entire Greek tax system is so complicated and arbitrary that people feel justified in evading it. An American-style "flat tax," or any American idea for that matter, would be destined to fail in Greece. Remember that Greeks are not stupid. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 1:57:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Fo and re-take Constantinople.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 2:01:25 AM EDT
[#48]
Tax anal sex?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 2:08:32 AM EDT
[#49]
I'd:
- exit the EU - put a flat tax on everything - hire a bunch of revenuers to enforce it, make examples of violaters - raise retirement age to 67 - kick out any illegal "migrants" - examine and reform or eleminate all other social programs |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/8/2015 3:29:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Income tax is notoriously hard to collect in Greece. Doesn't matter what the rate is. The people who end up paying income tax are the wage earners and pensioners, who have it withheld from their wages/pensions. Everyone else, such as independent professionals, tradesmen, business owners, etc., works off the books or "cooks the books." There is therefore perceived unfairness which undermines the whole tax system. In an attempt to stem tax evasion, Greek tax law has some unique provisions, such as the concept of "constructive income." There's a section of the tax form that requires listing of all major expenses, such as rent, groceries, car expenses, school tuition, etc. If these expenses are more than the declared income, the taxpayer has to explain the difference, or else pay tax on the expenses instead of the income. (Auditors spend more time auditing expenses than income per se.) The real revenue-raiser is the value-added tax, or VAT. This is supposedly self-enforcing, since it applies to all levels of the chain -- producer to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer, retailer to consumer. Each level of the chain gets a credit for the tax it paid to the previous level of the chain. The problem is that at a 23% rate (the proposed rate demanded by the international lenders), it kills the economy. Then there's the real estate tax. To avoid manipulation of the tax base, instead of market values it uses so-called "objective values" which arbitrarily assign "zone values" by neighborhood, and multiply them by square footage (square meters,actually). These "objective values," even if once considered fair, now have no connection to reality. The entire Greek tax system is so complicated and arbitrary that people feel justified in evading it. An American-style "flat tax," or any American idea for that matter, would be destined to fail in Greece. Remember that Greeks are not stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then Flat-Tax, 10%, no Capital Gains Tax, or anything that "double dips". Sell/privatize all government owned companies. Income tax is notoriously hard to collect in Greece. Doesn't matter what the rate is. The people who end up paying income tax are the wage earners and pensioners, who have it withheld from their wages/pensions. Everyone else, such as independent professionals, tradesmen, business owners, etc., works off the books or "cooks the books." There is therefore perceived unfairness which undermines the whole tax system. In an attempt to stem tax evasion, Greek tax law has some unique provisions, such as the concept of "constructive income." There's a section of the tax form that requires listing of all major expenses, such as rent, groceries, car expenses, school tuition, etc. If these expenses are more than the declared income, the taxpayer has to explain the difference, or else pay tax on the expenses instead of the income. (Auditors spend more time auditing expenses than income per se.) The real revenue-raiser is the value-added tax, or VAT. This is supposedly self-enforcing, since it applies to all levels of the chain -- producer to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer, retailer to consumer. Each level of the chain gets a credit for the tax it paid to the previous level of the chain. The problem is that at a 23% rate (the proposed rate demanded by the international lenders), it kills the economy. Then there's the real estate tax. To avoid manipulation of the tax base, instead of market values it uses so-called "objective values" which arbitrarily assign "zone values" by neighborhood, and multiply them by square footage (square meters,actually). These "objective values," even if once considered fair, now have no connection to reality. The entire Greek tax system is so complicated and arbitrary that people feel justified in evading it. An American-style "flat tax," or any American idea for that matter, would be destined to fail in Greece. Remember that Greeks are not stupid. I'd hardly outright call them stupid, but the constant kicking of the can down the road and denial is pretty stupid... and a flat tax might not be the worst thing in the world, for them or us. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
