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Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:33:48 AM EDT
[#1]
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Probably because under the Constitution, they get to do what they did.  You don't have to agree with it, but your opinion counts for one vote at the ballot box, feel free to use it.

There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.
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That's funny. Most of the country doesn't care what five assholes in black robes revised the word marriage to mean either, but here we are forced to live under the new revision.

Why is their revision ok ?


Probably because under the Constitution, they get to do what they did.  You don't have to agree with it, but your opinion counts for one vote at the ballot box, feel free to use it.

There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


No. They don't. The invented the "authority" to do what they did. There is no Constitutional authorization for the Supreme Court to declare constitutionality. Chief Justice Marshall invented it as a way to poke the Anti-Federalists in the eye after they had just routed the Federalists in an election.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:35:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Didn't the South fly the USA flag prior to the Civil War?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:35:25 AM EDT
[#3]
How are these actions changing things?  What is now better?  
Even more important, when nothing changes, what will be blamed for the next horrific act?

Can we blame something terrible the LACK of Confederate flags at historical sites?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:35:59 AM EDT
[#4]
A couple of posters here need to show us where the bad flag touched them and explain how it has caused them pain and anguish to see it on a flag pole.  



Or at the very least describe how it makes them ashamed to be a citizen of the USA when they see it flown?



I would personally like to hear any first hand account how that flag has resulted in any actual harm to their lives today?



See where this is going....be careful what you wish for.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:36:55 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
A couple of posters here need to show us where the bad flag touched them and explain how it has caused them pain and anguish to see it on a flag pole.  

Or at the very least describe how it makes them ashamed to be a citizen of the USA when they see it flown?

I would personally like to hear any first hand account how that flag has resulted in any actual harm to their lives today?

See where this is going....be careful what you wish for.
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Oh Christ, we all know it will be something else next week as the 'tards move on to their next issue.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:38:12 AM EDT
[#6]
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I'll wait for someone to argue this.
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Legislature of South Carolina, declaring its causes for secession:

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.


Legislature of Georgia, doing the same:

In 1820 the North demanded that the State of Missouri should not be admitted into the Union unless she first prohibited slavery within her limits by her constitution. After a bitter and protracted struggle the North was defeated in her special object, but her policy and position led to the adoption of a section in the law for the admission of Missouri, prohibiting slavery in all that portion of the territory acquired from France lying North of 36 [degrees] 30 [minutes] north latitude and outside of Missouri. The venerable Madison at the time of its adoption declared it unconstitutional. Mr. Jefferson condemned the restriction and foresaw its consequences and predicted that it would result in the dissolution of the Union. His prediction is now history. The North demanded the application of the principle of prohibition of slavery to all of the territory acquired from Mexico and all other parts of the public domain then and in all future time. It was the announcement of her purpose to appropriate to herself all the public domain then owned and thereafter to be acquired by the United States. The claim itself was less arrogant and insulting than the reason with which she supported it. That reason was her fixed purpose to limit, restrain, and finally abolish slavery in the States where it exists. The South with great unanimity declared her purpose to resist the principle of prohibition to the last extremity. This particular question, in connection with a series of questions affecting the same subject, was finally disposed of by the defeat of prohibitory legislation.

The Presidential election of 1852 resulted in the total overthrow of the advocates of restriction and their party friends. Immediately after this result the anti-slavery portion of the defeated party resolved to unite all the elements in the North opposed to slavery an to stake their future political fortunes upon their hostility to slavery everywhere. This is the party two whom the people of the North have committed the Government. They raised their standard in 1856 and were barely defeated. They entered the Presidential contest again in 1860 and succeeded.

The prohibition of slavery in the Territories, hostility to it everywhere, the equality of the black and white races, disregard of all constitutional guarantees in its favor, were boldly proclaimed by its leaders and applauded by its followers.

For forty years this question has been considered and debated in the halls of Congress, before the people, by the press, and before the tribunals of justice. The majority of the people of the North in 1860 decided it in their own favor. We refuse to submit to that judgment, and in vindication of our refusal we offer the Constitution of our country and point to the total absence of any express power to exclude us. We offer the practice of our Government for the first thirty years of its existence in complete refutation of the position that any such power is either necessary or proper to the execution of any other power in relation to the Territories. We offer the judgment of a large minority of the people of the North, amounting to more than one-third, who united with the unanimous voice of the South against this usurpation; and, finally, we offer the judgment of the Supreme Court of the United States, the highest judicial tribunal of our country, in our favor. This evidence ought to be conclusive that we have never surrendered this right. The conduct of our adversaries admonishes us that if we had surrendered it, it is time to resume it.


Shortly thereafter, the Vice President of the newly Declared Confederacy, announcing their new Constitution:

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

In the conflict thus far, success has been on our side, complete throughout the length and breadth of the Confederate States. It is upon this, as I have stated, our social fabric is firmly planted; and I cannot permit myself to doubt the ultimate success of a full recognition of this principle throughout the civilized and enlightened world.


Sorry, doesn't take an historian to admit the reality of what the Confederacy was. It does take a special level of denial to claim otherwise.

Whether someone believes the flag represents something else is wholly irrelevant. A lot of people are ignorant about a lot of things. People with healthy mental outlook seek to remove their own ignorance, not dwell in it.

Historical revisionism is best left to Leftists.


I'll wait for someone to argue this.


lol

yes it was about slavery as that was the means of production.

its equivalent to the government threatening to outlaw gas or diesel.

to say it was racism is wrong, as both sides were more or less equally racist.

i don't agree but i understand it was the fed coming in and saying your way of life is over, prepare for a brave new world.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:39:16 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.
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I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:39:24 AM EDT
[#8]

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Bets on how long until it's illegal to fly it in your own lawn?
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Fly?.....You mean OWN?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:41:12 AM EDT
[#9]
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I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:42:00 AM EDT
[#10]
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No. They don't. The invented the "authority" to do what they did. There is no Constitutional authorization for the Supreme Court to declare constitutionality. Chief Justice Marshall invented it as a way to poke the Anti-Federalists in the eye after they had just routed the Federalists in an election.
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That's funny. Most of the country doesn't care what five assholes in black robes revised the word marriage to mean either, but here we are forced to live under the new revision.

Why is their revision ok ?


Probably because under the Constitution, they get to do what they did.  You don't have to agree with it, but your opinion counts for one vote at the ballot box, feel free to use it.

There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


No. They don't. The invented the "authority" to do what they did. There is no Constitutional authorization for the Supreme Court to declare constitutionality. Chief Justice Marshall invented it as a way to poke the Anti-Federalists in the eye after they had just routed the Federalists in an election.


So the entire concept of the Supreme Court is invented?  Good luck with that, how does that apply to Heller and McDonald?  

Oh - you haven't thought this through, have you?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:42:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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Honestly you are not that far off. As an historian I'm seeing a very close historical social parallel repeating itself right now. The White males (especially Southern) are the new Jews and the government and media we have right now are acting in a very similar same manner as the German government and press of 1933 whipping up hate and attempting to scrub society of all history in order to start its new national socialist 'religion'.

They need a scapegoat to rally the masses around, it was Jews in Germany, it's Whites now.

Now about that Jewish White privilege where we need to expunge you from the media and academia...oh and about that wealth your people "stole"...throw your gold rings and watches in that pile and shoes in that one...step inside.

At the rate this racial hate is being pushed by this media imagine 10-20 years from now, when you are a minority by design.
       
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When dos the Kristallnacht start?  I want to get in the glass biz.
Honestly you are not that far off. As an historian I'm seeing a very close historical social parallel repeating itself right now. The White males (especially Southern) are the new Jews and the government and media we have right now are acting in a very similar same manner as the German government and press of 1933 whipping up hate and attempting to scrub society of all history in order to start its new national socialist 'religion'.

They need a scapegoat to rally the masses around, it was Jews in Germany, it's Whites now.

Now about that Jewish White privilege where we need to expunge you from the media and academia...oh and about that wealth your people "stole"...throw your gold rings and watches in that pile and shoes in that one...step inside.

At the rate this racial hate is being pushed by this media imagine 10-20 years from now, when you are a minority by design.
       

I agree.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:44:41 AM EDT
[#12]
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You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.


Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:45:53 AM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:




After the initial order from Washington to remove the flags was handed down, NPS Director Jarvis provided "further guidance" the next day that put the onus for the decision on regional directors. Fort Sumter's Superintendent Timothy Stone did not reverse Jarvis' decision and the flags remain down.
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Roughly translated to mean " I am chicken shit coward and Muh Pension!"
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:46:24 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:

..........

Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.
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The North without question treated blacks as second class citizens during all this time period and are NOT clean in this area.

Sure more slaves in the South but the North is no where near as clean as the driven snow in this issue IMHO.

We were all complicit to an extent.

It is part of our history and reminds of us of those horrible and violent times.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:47:06 AM EDT
[#15]
This Shit is getting out of hand and don't think for one minute this order did not come from the top
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:47:11 AM EDT
[#16]
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You don't have to like facts, they're still facts.
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There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


jeez, that was really stupid....


You don't have to like facts, they're still facts.


You are the one ignorant of facts...
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:49:29 AM EDT
[#17]

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I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.



It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.
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Quoted:

Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?



Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  



I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.




I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.



It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.




Thanks for the honesty in not denying you are a statist...that is refreshing...Ouch calling me a newbie hurts my feels...lol  



Many symbols have been co-opted by groups...guess we should call Buddhist the original Nazis right...symbols of hatred and racism and the opression mustn't forget the oppression...Those fucking Buddhist bastards.



They did create the swastika so they by your logic are bad people too with that nasty symbology.  



Don't forget the Brits they are horrible peoples too all those colonies and forced servitude.  Matter of fact we should pay retributions to the Irish and the Indians boy we fucked those gingers and brown skinned bastards over real good.  Damn I almost left out the Catholics...not sure what to do there they have like their own country they can move back to and all.



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:49:36 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quit wallowing in your self righteousness. Things change over time. Ideas, words, and thoughts. The Confederate flag I think to most southerners represents pride in the South. It no longer represents the idea of slave ownership, or hatred against blacks.

I'm going to assume both you and Bohr are from the north since both of you only have your black or white blinders on.

 
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Quoted:
Quoted:

There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


jeez, that was really stupid....


You don't have to like facts, they're still facts.

Quit wallowing in your self righteousness. Things change over time. Ideas, words, and thoughts. The Confederate flag I think to most southerners represents pride in the South. It no longer represents the idea of slave ownership, or hatred against blacks.

I'm going to assume both you and Bohr are from the north since both of you only have your black or white blinders on.

 


It didn't or wasn't create to represent that either...

The only time that flag represent racism and supremacy, is when a small minority of POS recuperated it to symbolize their backward ideology.

That flag was not theirs to desecrate.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#19]
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The North without question treated blacks as second class citizens during all this time period and are NOT clean in this area.

Sure more slaves in the South but the North is no where near as clean as the driven snow in this issue IMHO.

We were all complicit to an extent.

It is part of our history and reminds of us of those horrible and violent times.
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Quoted:

..........

Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.

The North without question treated blacks as second class citizens during all this time period and are NOT clean in this area.

Sure more slaves in the South but the North is no where near as clean as the driven snow in this issue IMHO.

We were all complicit to an extent.

It is part of our history and reminds of us of those horrible and violent times.


No, the North wasn't clean as the driven snow. The North didn't go to war under that flag to preserve slavery. Nor do they continue to fly it pretending the "south will rise again" or any other stupid fuckery.

But racist assholes certainly do continue to fly it and use it as a symbol of their cause.

And so it's time for it to go away.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:51:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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You are the one ignorant of facts...
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There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


jeez, that was really stupid....


You don't have to like facts, they're still facts.


You are the one ignorant of facts...


Have you ever even been to the U.S.?
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:51:57 AM EDT
[#21]



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(snip)





Quoted:





lol





yes it was about slavery as that was the means of production.





its equivalent to the government threatening to outlaw gas or diesel.





to say it was racism is wrong, as both sides were more or less equally racist.





i don't agree but i understand it was the fed coming in and saying your way of life is over, prepare for a brave new world.


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Both sides owned slaves, but it was the south that needed them more given their agrarian economy.  The north was willing to give it up because their economy didn't depend on slavery, not because they were dong anything righteous.  While it's certainly true that the Confederacy fought over the continuation of slavery, its wrong to suggest that the Union gave a shit about the freedom of blacks.  Ending slavery meant the destruction of the southern economy.
 
 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:53:18 AM EDT
[#22]
I believe bored Adams and josh have been bit by jungle fever
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:53:35 AM EDT
[#23]

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Bohr_Adam doesn't give a shit, stop poking him and get on with your day.

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Actually I am quite a reasonable person you just don't know me from Adam.



ETA:  If you want to discuss that the Stars and Bars was not the historically correct flag then I would give you that point.  If you want to paint the Stars and Bars with a broad brush of racism then you would be just as ignorant as those that wish to revise history.





I paint the Confederacy with the Broad brush of racism. Flags and what not are secondary to that.



Anyone who tries to deny the very foundation of the movement that led to it is the one trying to revise history.



Anyone who fixates on different flags is clearly missing the point, probably intentionally.






So, it is well-established fact that some northern states remained slaveholding throughout the war. What point are YOU missing?




Bohr_Adam doesn't give a shit, stop poking him and get on with your day.

There is a good reason he is on my ignore list.

 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:53:44 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Honestly you are not that far off. As an historian I'm seeing a very close historical social parallel repeating itself right now. The White males (especially Southern) are the new Jews and the government and media we have right now are acting in a very similar same manner as the German government and press of 1933 whipping up hate and attempting to scrub society of all history in order to start its new national socialist 'religion'.

They need a scapegoat to rally the masses around, it was Jews in Germany, it's Whites now.

Now about that Jewish White privilege where we need to expunge you from the media and academia...oh and about that wealth your people "stole"...throw your gold rings and watches in that pile and shoes in that one...step inside.

At the rate this racial hate is being pushed by this media imagine 10-20 years from now, when you are a minority by design.
       
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Quoted:
When dos the Kristallnacht start?  I want to get in the glass biz.
Honestly you are not that far off. As an historian I'm seeing a very close historical social parallel repeating itself right now. The White males (especially Southern) are the new Jews and the government and media we have right now are acting in a very similar same manner as the German government and press of 1933 whipping up hate and attempting to scrub society of all history in order to start its new national socialist 'religion'.

They need a scapegoat to rally the masses around, it was Jews in Germany, it's Whites now.

Now about that Jewish White privilege where we need to expunge you from the media and academia...oh and about that wealth your people "stole"...throw your gold rings and watches in that pile and shoes in that one...step inside.

At the rate this racial hate is being pushed by this media imagine 10-20 years from now, when you are a minority by design.
       


Good. That means I'm on the right side.

They're going to have a hell of a lot harder row to hoe than the Nazis did, though.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:53:45 AM EDT
[#25]
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Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.


Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.


It's pretty stupid actually. Banning it from video games and model airplanes ? . Yeah. Good way to ensure history will be forgotten and played again....
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:53:50 AM EDT
[#26]
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...................

No, the North wasn't clean as the driven snow. The North didn't go to war under that flag to preserve slavery. Nor do they continue to fly it pretending the "south will rise again" or any other stupid fuckery.

But racist assholes certainly do continue to fly it and use it as a symbol of their cause.

And so it's time for it to go away.
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There's no doubt about that but not all who fly it feel that way..........for many Southerners it is an historical battle flag many of their ancestors fought and died for.

Plus, the USA flag was the flag flown before 1861.

We are all complicit in slavery..........the South more but that doesn't give me much relief even though I am a Yankee who hates slavery.

People have a 1A right to fly the battle flag IMHO.

Heck, as a kid in the sixties I was a caddie at Detroit Golf Club................they even were nice enough to give me an all expenses paid scholarship to MSU for 4 years...................guess what, blacks could not be members.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#27]
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Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.


Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.


It's pretty stupid actually. Banning it from video games and model airplanes ? . Yeah. Good way to ensure history will be forgotten and played again....
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:54:39 AM EDT
[#28]

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I believe bored Adams and josh have been bit by jungle fever
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Nah, they believe they're looking down at us with a smug face. In reality, if they were to look up they'd see their intestines.





 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:55:36 AM EDT
[#29]
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Have you ever even been to the U.S.?
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There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


jeez, that was really stupid....


You don't have to like facts, they're still facts.


You are the one ignorant of facts...


Have you ever even been to the U.S.?


More times than you have been to Switzerland I guess.

Yes I have. Repeatedly.

That being said, if I never had, it wouldn't change a damn thing to the argument.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:55:53 AM EDT
[#30]
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They're not "gone forever" they are relegated to exhibits and historical markers as they should be.
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The pity is that no future administration, no matter how conservative, will ever put them back up.  They're gone forever, and with them some important lessons and reminders.

They're not "gone forever" they are relegated to exhibits and historical markers as they should be.

What is Ft. Sumter?

Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:56:11 AM EDT
[#31]
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I paint the Confederacy with the Broad brush of racism. Flags and what not are secondary to that.

Anyone who tries to deny the very foundation of the movement that led to it is the one trying to revise history.

Anyone who fixates on different flags is clearly missing the point, probably intentionally.
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Actually I am quite a reasonable person you just don't know me from Adam.

ETA:  If you want to discuss that the Stars and Bars was not the historically correct flag then I would give you that point.  If you want to paint the Stars and Bars with a broad brush of racism then you would be just as ignorant as those that wish to revise history.


I paint the Confederacy with the Broad brush of racism. Flags and what not are secondary to that.

Anyone who tries to deny the very foundation of the movement that led to it is the one trying to revise history.

Anyone who fixates on different flags is clearly missing the point, probably intentionally.


Keep painting then, all the way to the Canadian border and beyond. If you think racism started and stopped at the Mason - Dixon you may be reasonable but definitely not realistic.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:57:41 AM EDT
[#32]
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Thanks for the honesty in not denying you are a statist...that is refreshing...Ouch calling me a newbie hurts my feels...lol  

Many symbols have been co-opted by groups...guess we should call Buddhist the original Nazis right...symbols of hatred and racism and the opression mustn't forget the oppression...Those fucking Buddhist bastards.

They did create the swastika so they by your logic are bad people too with that nasty symbology.  

Don't forget the Brits they are horrible peoples too all those colonies and forced servitude.  Matter of fact we should pay retributions to the Irish and the Indians boy we fucked those gingers and brown skinned bastards over real good.  Damn I almost left out the Catholics...not sure what to do there they have like their own country they can move back to and all.
 
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.


Thanks for the honesty in not denying you are a statist...that is refreshing...Ouch calling me a newbie hurts my feels...lol  

Many symbols have been co-opted by groups...guess we should call Buddhist the original Nazis right...symbols of hatred and racism and the opression mustn't forget the oppression...Those fucking Buddhist bastards.

They did create the swastika so they by your logic are bad people too with that nasty symbology.  

Don't forget the Brits they are horrible peoples too all those colonies and forced servitude.  Matter of fact we should pay retributions to the Irish and the Indians boy we fucked those gingers and brown skinned bastards over real good.  Damn I almost left out the Catholics...not sure what to do there they have like their own country they can move back to and all.
 


If you think somewhere in that I was agreeing with you about a word you can't even define and simply use to mean anyone who disagrees with you, your critical thinking ability is sorely lacking.

The Swastika long predates the Nazis. We all know this. Guess what? We don't use it anymore.

If you're trying to claim the confederate flag used to mean something good and then got "co-opted" by some bad people, you've missed one or two history lessons along the way. Or maybe they just don't teach history in your world, replacing it with fairy tales about the honorable south and such bullshit.

That flag has meant racism, hatred, and oppression for well over a hundred years since the south took it to war to keep black people on slavery.  It's time to move on.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:58:37 AM EDT
[#33]
A couple of libtard idiots up in here, I won't mention any names.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 9:58:45 AM EDT
[#34]
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So the entire concept of the Supreme Court is invented?  Good luck with that, how does that apply to Heller and McDonald?  

Oh - you haven't thought this through, have you?
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That's funny. Most of the country doesn't care what five assholes in black robes revised the word marriage to mean either, but here we are forced to live under the new revision.

Why is their revision ok ?


Probably because under the Constitution, they get to do what they did.  You don't have to agree with it, but your opinion counts for one vote at the ballot box, feel free to use it.

There's no comparison between a SCOTUS decision and the continued flying of a flag that celebrates racism and slavery.


No. They don't. The invented the "authority" to do what they did. There is no Constitutional authorization for the Supreme Court to declare constitutionality. Chief Justice Marshall invented it as a way to poke the Anti-Federalists in the eye after they had just routed the Federalists in an election.


So the entire concept of the Supreme Court is invented?  Good luck with that, how does that apply to Heller and McDonald?  

Oh - you haven't thought this through, have you?


Don't be a douche. I have thought this through quite a bit.

The Supreme Court is absolutely authorized--explicitly. Constitutional review is not explicitly authorized, and Marbury shocked a lot of the framers and seriously angered the states.

As to Heller and McDonald. I like the short-term outcome, obviously. However, I disagree with the decisions entirely. And I've explained my reasoning many times here. It's the same reason I disagree with nationwide CCW. I'd love to have it, obviously, but I disagree with it from a federalism standpoint.

And since you are indeed being a douche, I'm not going to devote the time to explain my reasoning yet again. Just keep on saying I don't know what I'm talking about or haven't thought things through.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:05:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Flying the CSA flag over Ft. Sumter is inappropriate, as it was historically a US military facility and never was other except when stolen in breach of the law.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:06:28 AM EDT
[#36]
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Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.
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Just when you think this CBF shit can't get any dumber.....



Not just the CBF in this case. ALL Confederate flags.




Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.




Wacism!!



Come on, how are liberals going to peddle their white guilt without their Southern Man bugbear to blame all the ills of brown people on
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:07:55 AM EDT
[#37]
I like how those that deem themselves intellectually superior always fall back on the same tired line.



"You wouldn't understand" or "I'm not going to waste my time explaining"





Tell us again how the NSA is keeping us safe Josh...I miss those lectures and your insight into computer tech.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:09:01 AM EDT
[#38]
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Flying the CSA flag over Ft. Sumter is inappropriate, as it was historically a US military facility and never was other except when stolen in breach of the law.
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Historically it has significance and should not be removed.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:10:44 AM EDT
[#39]

Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:10:50 AM EDT
[#40]
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Bets on how long until it's illegal to fly it in your own lawn?
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Not for a while. Won't be illegal but they won't actively investigate or prosecute acts of vandalism
to your personal property
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:11:27 AM EDT
[#41]

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Historically it has significance and should not be removed.
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Quoted:

Flying the CSA flag over Ft. Sumter is inappropriate, as it was historically a US military facility and never was other except when stolen in breach of the law.


Historically it has significance and should not be removed.


Which and who's law specifically?  There were some actual legal rights that were given to the states or I should say legal limitations surrounding the Federal government.



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:13:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Brilliant, just remove it from history books too. Make it just like nothing that occurred between 1861 and 1865 never happened. Also, let the Germans know about how easy this is. I hear they pretend nothing bad happened between 1936 and 1945
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:14:09 AM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:



Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.
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Just when you think this CBF shit can't get any dumber.....



Not just the CBF in this case. ALL Confederate flags.




Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.


This Damn Yankee sys NO!
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:15:01 AM EDT
[#44]

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Flying the CSA flag over Ft. Sumter is inappropriate, as it was historically a US military facility and never was other except when stolen in breach of the law.
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Inappropriate?



Yea, because fuck History, and those other Americans that dare to stand up for themselves.



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:15:06 AM EDT
[#45]
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Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.


Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.



The flag denoting where you are is also a flag of a defeated evil enemy. Remove it lest you be labeled an apologist for the empire of Japan.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:15:19 AM EDT
[#46]

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Brilliant, just remove it from history books too. Make it just like nothing that occurred between 1861 and 1865 never happened. Also, let the Germans know about how easy this is. I hear they pretend nothing bad happened between 1936 and 1945
View Quote




Only if Josh and Adams start writing 6th grade civics books....lol



 
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:16:23 AM EDT
[#47]
,  I guess we are just beginning to understand how it felt to live in Nazi Germany in the early '30's. How many will be willing to look back on that time and stop the same thing from happening again?

Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:17:10 AM EDT
[#48]
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The flag denoting where you are is also a flag of a defeated evil enemy. Remove it lest you be labeled an apologist for the empire of Japan.
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Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?

Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  

I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.


I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.

It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.

You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.

I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.

It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.

Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.


Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.



The flag denoting where you are is also a flag of a defeated evil enemy. Remove it lest you be labeled an apologist for the empire of Japan.


But you know, it's not the same flag, the empire had sunrays added to it.....


But somehow the difference in between the battle flag, the confederate navy jack and the confederate flags aren't considered differences in the same way.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:18:03 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:



Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.
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Just when you think this CBF shit can't get any dumber.....



Not just the CBF in this case. ALL Confederate flags.




Good, the years of blindly tolerating the symbols of a movement that opposed everything this country stands for, all in them name of "reconciliation" (while actually being nothing more than pandering) might as well end now.

I would tell you to eat shit and die...but I am not that kind of person.
Link Posted: 7/3/2015 10:19:39 AM EDT
[#50]

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The flag denoting where you are is also a flag of a defeated evil enemy. Remove it lest you be labeled an apologist for the empire of Japan.
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Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

Just a few bandwagon jumpers on this thread that don't even live in the South but want to force their personal viewpoints on those that do.  Freedom much?



Josh I know your answer since you have assured us many times that the NSA isn't nefarious or something we should be concerned about.  



I'm sorry you are so butthurt over a flag suddenly now that you think popular opinion support your statist views.




I lived in the south for thirteen years. Don't pretend like you know anything about me newbie.



It's not "statist" to want to see symbols of racism, hatred, and oppression fall out of favor. It's a few decades later than it should have happened.


You and I (and Bohr) disagree on this one.



I view it as a historical thing in our history and do not think it should be abolished.



It was a time when more than a million men fought for what they believed in and many died.



Sure I am a Yankee but I don't feel it is proper to forbid Southerners to fly the Battle Flag.




Swastikas are a historical thing in Germany's history too. They banned all the Nazi symbols - and for good reason.



The flag denoting where you are is also a flag of a defeated evil enemy. Remove it lest you be labeled an apologist for the empire of Japan.


But, but it's not the Rising Sun, and you know how those Chinese exaggerate things.



That is a good "snap"



 
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