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Posted: 4/24/2001 7:43:26 AM EDT
Blackstone's commentaries on the law are the most frequently quoted by state and federal supreme courts...seems they apply to just about everything EXCEPT firearm ownership and self defense.... The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." -- Henry St. George Tucker, in Blackstone's 1768 "Commentaries on the Laws of England."
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 10:14:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 9divdoc: Blackstone's commentaries on the law are the most frequently quoted by state and federal supreme courts
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They are the what?
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 10:36:11 AM EDT
I think he meant source or resource or ancient tome of ponderous knowledge.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 10:57:44 AM EDT
Yeah, I think he thinks they have some value or weight beyond entertainment value these days. You gotta be arguing something pretty arcane, esoteric or obscure to have te cite Blackstone in either a brief or an opinion.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 12:17:30 PM EDT
Right, something as obscure and arcane as the 2nd Ammendment!
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 3:26:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2001 3:28:10 PM EDT by Cible]
Blackstone died 9 years before the Constitution was passed and the 2d Amendment was not mentioned in the original post anyways. If you don't have anything intelligent to say, just agree with what andreusan says, it's no better.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 7:51:00 PM EDT
9divdoc, can you give me a volume and page cite on that quote? I have Blackstone's Commentaries, gathering dust on a bookshelf somewhere, and haven't read them for a long time, but don't recall that one. If that's a for real quote, would appreciate it. Anyway, sounds like something Blackstone would have said. Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 7:59:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible: Blackstone died 9 years before the Constitution was passed and the 2d Amendment was not mentioned in the original post anyways. If you don't have anything intelligent to say, just agree with what andreusan says, it's no better.
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You pomp_pus little piss_ant. Blackstones Commentaries were known and used by the founding fathers. The post was showing I believe that back then even Blackstone was silent on the the right to keep and bear arms even though the first law of nature is self defense. You must admit that many anti gunners today feel the 2nd. ammendment is arcane and has no validity in our "modern" society. Well it seems that Blackstone had the same feeling when he was living in his "modern" society.
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:14:49 PM EDT
Blackstones commentaries were used oft cited among the founding fathers It seems to me that what the commentary was seeking to illimuniate was that 1. Self defense is a natural right (animals have claws and teeth self defense is hard wired into all creatures including man..the right to self defense is derived from natural law 2.In most governments/ rulers seek to limit this right to the most narrow definition possible (todays arguement that a milita is the national guard and only they needs firearms) 3.Wherever there is already a standing army (loyal of course to those who limit the natural law of self defense to its most narrowest terms) 4. And where people are not allowed arms for self defense under any pretext (back to the national guard pretext) then if liberty is not gone its on the way out
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:18:52 PM EDT
Sorry cant cite the page for you just found this in some old notes I had thought it might be an interesting topic ...beats topics Ive seen here in the past like how many nipple rings does madonna have or posting pics of poor grossly overweight downs syndrome kids or some such...maybe it isnt as interesting after all
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:21:09 PM EDT
when ruling on constitutional law...Blackstone is often quoted..or at least it used to be back when...
Link Posted: 4/24/2001 8:24:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/24/2001 8:23:55 PM EDT by oldeschool]
No, 9divdoc, it is very interesting. Of academic interest, true, but interesting. Now, you really mean I have to re-read all 4 volumes of Blackstone's Commentaries to find that quote? Are you some kind of sadist? What are you, a law school professor? [:D]
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 8:30:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2001 1:27:28 PM EDT by Cible]
You pomp_pus little piss_ant. Blackstones Commentaries were known and used by the founding fathers. The post was showing I believe that back then even Blackstone was silent on the the right to keep and bear arms even though the first law of nature is self defense. You must admit that many anti gunners today feel the 2nd. ammendment is arcane and has no validity in our "modern" society. Well it seems that Blackstone had the same feeling when he was living in his "modern" society.
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What's the matter with you that you stutter when you write? Are you stuttering mad? Pomp_pus? WTF is that? Just calm down and say it. Pompous. Pissant. Ahhhhhh. That feels better. And anyways, I don't have to admit to any of your lame logic. You are imagining things. You read the 2d Amendment into a statement made years before it. D_d_d_don't g_go away m_m_mad. J_j_j_j_j_just g_g_g_go away.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 11:08:15 AM EDT
Cible I can see what you are saying, but the Constitution was not something that the Framers just made out of thin air. It was the culmination of the Magna Carta, Common Law, English Bill of Rights, historical perspective, etc. Some of this "etc." included the writings of Sir William Blackstone in his [u]Commentaries on English Law[/u] which were tremendously influential in Revolutionary-Era America. More than anything, I think that Blackstone defined some very fundamental things in his writings, such as what a "right" is and the idea that "self defense being the first law of nature." It was some of these comments that [b]helped[/b] spawn some of the Bill of Rights. Blackstone's comments merely provided impetus... Oldeschool... as far as a cite goes, try: #1 Commentaries p. 121 and 143-144, and, #3 Commentaries, p. 4. Caveat- I did not look this up directly, this is just the reference that I have on these quotes. Let me know if they are good cites.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 1:36:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JDP: Cible I can see what you are saying, but the Constitution was not something that the Framers just made out of thin air. It was the culmination of the Magna Carta, Common Law, English Bill of Rights, historical perspective, etc. Some of this "etc." included the writings of Sir William Blackstone in his [u]Commentaries on English Law[/u] which were tremendously influential in Revolutionary-Era America. More than anything, I think that Blackstone defined some very fundamental things in his writings, such as what a "right" is and the idea that "self defense being the first law of nature." It was some of these comments that [b]helped[/b] spawn some of the Bill of Rights. Blackstone's comments merely provided impetus...
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Of course that's true, but the original posts don't say that. In fact, the first post says that "Blackstone's commentaries on the law are the most frequently quoted...." but it doesn't say when. A looooong time ago, maybe, but I don't think that they were ever the most frequently quoted source by any court. Commentaries are secondary authority, and are persuasive at best. They have no binding weight, as you no doubt know, not even to Bejamin Freakin' Franklin. They are only one man's secondary opinion until directly cited by a Supreme Court. I wasn't sure what 9divdoc was getting at, and I'm still not, though I think Hangfire thinks he knows.
Link Posted: 4/25/2001 6:07:57 PM EDT
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature;
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Pretty close JDP - #3 Commentaries, p.4 "Self defense therefore, as it is justly called the primary law of nature, so it is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the law of society"
in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
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This one I haven't found yet. I did find this one at #1 Commentaries, p.139 which seems somewhat inconsistent to say the least: "The fifth and last auxiliary right of the subject, that I shall at present mention, is that of having arms for their defence, suitable to their condition and degree, and such as are allowed by law. Which is also declared by the same statute 1 W & M ft.2 c.2 and is indeed a public allowance, under due restrictions, of the natural right of resistance and self-preservation,when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.
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