User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:06:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just sounds idiotic. The truth is, we don't know how long it takes fossils to form. (Whether we think we do or not) Look into some unexplained fossils sometime. Human footprints wearing sandles, hand tools in prehistoric rock, a battery. These things do not fit the story so they are just pushed aside. Most of science is just a guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. This just sounds idiotic. The truth is, we don't know how long it takes fossils to form. (Whether we think we do or not) Look into some unexplained fossils sometime. Human footprints wearing sandles, hand tools in prehistoric rock, a battery. These things do not fit the story so they are just pushed aside. Most of science is just a guess. And to think everyone gave him a hard time...someone did show up lol. Fossils are not aged by how long it takes to make one, there is a whole other branch of science known as Geology that has been around for awhile that has a small role in determining age. Most of science a guess? Lol. Evolving? Of course. A fantastic guess? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:14:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Then there is the theory which nearly caused all out war in the paleontologist community, that T-rex might have primarily been a scavenger, due to the massive size of the olfactory of its skull. With its size, stealth/ambush hunting would have been hard, but the size would allow it to chase off other predators and to steal its kills, something popular among lions and hyenas in Africa. The presence of large olfactory canals in fossilized skulls, and presumably a strong olfactory nerve system in the brain, only indicate physical traits and not necessarily behavior. A strong sense of smell would have allowed a T-Rex to not only smell rotted meat from great distances, but also to sniff out live prey from a nearer distance. And considering that herbivorous dinosaurs theoretically traveled in herds, their smell would have been pretty strong. For example, if you walked past a yard that had one dog, you would not smell it. If you walked past a yard that had a dozen dogs, you would notice the smell. If a T-Rex inhabited a terrain that provided deep cover, it could have been a successful ambush hunter. I would also theorize that even a creature of its size would have been capable of walking softly and creeping up on its prey, and not just stomping around like they did in 1960s monster movies. Also, in terms of hunting live prey, the T-Rex's long stride and massive quadriceps (judging by it's fossil anatomy) would have made him a powerfully fast sprinter. Neither its sense of smell not its sprinting ability indicates one way or another whether it was a hunter or a scavenger. Like present day lions, it was more of an opportunist -- it would hunt and kill when it needed to, and scavenge a free meal when it was able. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:23:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is an interesting Ted Talk I saw that says that what we think are discoveries of different varieties of T-Rex are really different age groups of T-Rex. This also seems to be the case of a lot of the triceritopsids, and a lot of the other dinos as well, significant structural changes happening in late adolescence ala birds vs the standard reptile system of staying the same and getting bigger and bigger, causing across-the-board misidentification of young and adolescent forms as separate species https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaurs So my adult Albertasaurus tooth is a juvenile T-Rex tooth? I don't buy it. Taking present day birds as an example, there are a lot of structural and anatomical differences between a baby Finch and an adult Finch -- but there are also hundreds of varieties of Finches, including some that are bigger and some that are smaller. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:25:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know the average lifespan of a raptor, T-Rex or others? As near as they can figure these days a t-rex was old at around 30. The skeletons show evidence of a hard life and lots of injuries. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:34:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The presence of large olfactory canals in fossilized skulls, and presumably a strong olfactory nerve system in the brain, only indicate physical traits and not necessarily behavior. A strong sense of smell would have allowed a T-Rex to not only smell rotted meat from great distances, but also to sniff out live prey from a nearer distance. And considering that herbivorous dinosaurs theoretically traveled in packs, their smell would have been pretty strong. For example, if you walked past a yard that had one dog, you would not smell it. If you walked past a yard that had a dozen dogs, you would notice the smell. If a T-Rex inhabited a terrain that provided deep cover, it could have been a successful ambush hunter. I would also theorize that even a creature of its size would have been capable of walking softly and creeping up on its prey, and not just stomping around like they did in 1960s monster movies. Also, in terms of hunting live prey, the T-Rex's long stride and massive quadriceps (judging by it's fossil anatomy) would have made him a powerfully fast sprinter. Neither its sense of smell not its sprinting ability indicates one way or another whether it was a hunter or a scavenger. Like present day lions, it was more of an opportunist -- it would hunt and kill when it needed to, and scavenge a free meal when it was able. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Then there is the theory which nearly caused all out war in the paleontologist community, that T-rex might have primarily been a scavenger, due to the massive size of the olfactory of its skull. With its size, stealth/ambush hunting would have been hard, but the size would allow it to chase off other predators and to steal its kills, something popular among lions and hyenas in Africa. The presence of large olfactory canals in fossilized skulls, and presumably a strong olfactory nerve system in the brain, only indicate physical traits and not necessarily behavior. A strong sense of smell would have allowed a T-Rex to not only smell rotted meat from great distances, but also to sniff out live prey from a nearer distance. And considering that herbivorous dinosaurs theoretically traveled in packs, their smell would have been pretty strong. For example, if you walked past a yard that had one dog, you would not smell it. If you walked past a yard that had a dozen dogs, you would notice the smell. If a T-Rex inhabited a terrain that provided deep cover, it could have been a successful ambush hunter. I would also theorize that even a creature of its size would have been capable of walking softly and creeping up on its prey, and not just stomping around like they did in 1960s monster movies. Also, in terms of hunting live prey, the T-Rex's long stride and massive quadriceps (judging by it's fossil anatomy) would have made him a powerfully fast sprinter. Neither its sense of smell not its sprinting ability indicates one way or another whether it was a hunter or a scavenger. Like present day lions, it was more of an opportunist -- it would hunt and kill when it needed to, and scavenge a free meal when it was able. Based off computer analysis, the fastest that T-rex could run was about 16 mph, which is slower than humans. Not the slowest dinosaur but slow for a predator. As for the olfactory areas in skull, no other carnivore dinosaur comes close to having that size, in relation to brain size. Why didn't other dinos have same? Physical traits often dictate behavior, basic biology and physiology. Why 5'10" stacked ladies aren't gymnasts and midgets aren't UFC fighters. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:35:06 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then how did they pilot the fighter jets? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
T-Rex short stubby arms made for doing the.... Bow-Chika-Wow-Wow. It appears that the arms could only swivel a mere 40 degrees at the shoulder and 45 degrees at the elbow. (For reference, humans have 360-degree capabilities at the shoulder and 165 at the elbow.) Such a restriction indicates that the arms were likely only used to grasp objects and hold them in place.
One of these objects, researchers surmise, was likely a struggling, squirming prey. T. rex would dig its hook-like claws into the animal, preventing it from escaping. Then, T. rex would angle its killer head, equipped with a vicious, incisor-lined jaw, for the perfect chomp. The male T. rex may have also made use of its arms to grasp the female, allowing him to assume a mating position. Link Then how did they pilot the fighter jets? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/27/2015 11:38:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they had been led into such by the great dinosaur poet, Kenny Logginsaurus. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmv8raYOro1qcr6iqo1_1280.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
T-Rex short stubby arms made for doing the.... Bow-Chika-Wow-Wow. It appears that the arms could only swivel a mere 40 degrees at the shoulder and 45 degrees at the elbow. (For reference, humans have 360-degree capabilities at the shoulder and 165 at the elbow.) Such a restriction indicates that the arms were likely only used to grasp objects and hold them in place.
One of these objects, researchers surmise, was likely a struggling, squirming prey. T. rex would dig its hook-like claws into the animal, preventing it from escaping. Then, T. rex would angle its killer head, equipped with a vicious, incisor-lined jaw, for the perfect chomp. The male T. rex may have also made use of its arms to grasp the female, allowing him to assume a mating position. Link Then how did they pilot the fighter jets? Because they had been led into such by the great dinosaur poet, Kenny Logginsaurus. http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmv8raYOro1qcr6iqo1_1280.jpg |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 12:55:27 AM EDT
[#8]
I just had a thought... We really have no idea what a dinosaur penis looks like. I wonder if some of them, like a 60 foot bronchosaurus, had a 5 foot long willy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 12:58:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:00:54 AM EDT
[#10]
The Velociraptors in the movies aren't Velociraptors, they're UtahRaptors....
and having them jumping out of trees on me and hooking those claws into my kidneys while eating my dome makes them that much scarier to me. I have always assumed TRex was a scavenger, when you're king of the jungle, why waste time chasing stuff down? Just take whatever someone else kills, if they won't leave, eat them too. Great whites do the same.. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:02:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... I, for one, would like to hear a brief bit about how dinosaurs fit into Christian Theology. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:12:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I, for one, would like to hear a brief bit about how dinosaurs fit into Christian Theology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... I, for one, would like to hear a brief bit about how dinosaurs fit into Christian Theology. Long discussion better suited to the religion forum, I think the better question is: What round for feathered, tree jumping, short hop flying UtahRaptor hell bent on making you lunch? .577 T-Rex seems obvious, but that's a one-and-done cartridge, if you miss, you're pooched. M-14 in .308 seems a little light.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 1:41:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But can you prove they were not put there by the devil?  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. But can you prove they were not put there by the devil? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 10:58:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Long discussion better suited to the religion forum, I think the better question is: What round for feathered, tree jumping, short hop flying UtahRaptor hell bent on making you lunch? .577 T-Rex seems obvious, but that's a one-and-done cartridge, if you miss, you're pooched. M-14 in .308 seems a little light.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... I, for one, would like to hear a brief bit about how dinosaurs fit into Christian Theology. Long discussion better suited to the religion forum, I think the better question is: What round for feathered, tree jumping, short hop flying UtahRaptor hell bent on making you lunch? .577 T-Rex seems obvious, but that's a one-and-done cartridge, if you miss, you're pooched. M-14 in .308 seems a little light.... M60E4, with red dot sight. M320 GL with HEDP for larger dinos |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 11:12:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, its proof you don't understand what science is, or how it works. Sorry that you failed 3rd grade. Contrary to what uninformed people might think, when you read about dinosaur behavior in an article, this information is coming second hand from hypotheses that the paleontologists are making, stating quietly clearly that this is one POSSIBLE explanation of the known facts. NO ONE is saying that "THIS IS DEFINITELY WITHOUT A DOUBT WHAT DINOSAURS DID AND LOOKED LIKE". As more information comes to light, the some hypotheses make less sense, so they lose favor compared to others or newer ones that better fit the facts. That's how science works. Its nothing more than looking for explanations that help explain the known facts and making predictions that would be expected if those explanations were true. Only a complete moron believes that science is about stating that these explanations are definitely true and then every few years keeps saying "whoops, now a new explanation is definitely true". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Funny how science changes. Proof we don't know anywhere near as much as we think we know at any given time. Sorry that you failed 3rd grade. Contrary to what uninformed people might think, when you read about dinosaur behavior in an article, this information is coming second hand from hypotheses that the paleontologists are making, stating quietly clearly that this is one POSSIBLE explanation of the known facts. NO ONE is saying that "THIS IS DEFINITELY WITHOUT A DOUBT WHAT DINOSAURS DID AND LOOKED LIKE". As more information comes to light, the some hypotheses make less sense, so they lose favor compared to others or newer ones that better fit the facts. That's how science works. Its nothing more than looking for explanations that help explain the known facts and making predictions that would be expected if those explanations were true. Only a complete moron believes that science is about stating that these explanations are definitely true and then every few years keeps saying "whoops, now a new explanation is definitely true". You're quick to lash out at someone, although it certainly appears you have the writing composition skills of a third grader, your damn self. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 9:48:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This just sounds idiotic. The truth is, we don't know how long it takes fossils to form. (Whether we think we do or not) Look into some unexplained fossils sometime. Human footprints wearing sandles, hand tools in prehistoric rock, a battery. These things do not fit the story so they are just pushed aside. Most of science is just a guess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. This just sounds idiotic. The truth is, we don't know how long it takes fossils to form. (Whether we think we do or not) Look into some unexplained fossils sometime. Human footprints wearing sandles, hand tools in prehistoric rock, a battery. These things do not fit the story so they are just pushed aside. Most of science is just a guess. While it can vary, we do know how long it takes fossils to form. It is why we consistently find things X old fossilized, and y old still bone, and some with a bit of both. I Don't think there is a cut off time, but dinosaurs are all fossilized, where as something like a mammoth that is only 10,000 years old may still be bone. All the "unexplained" fossils actually have perfectly good explanations. People are either ignorant to them or just reject the the explanation. Like the hammer in stone you mention was a CONCRETION, not fossilization. Huge difference. And while science doesn't know everything, it can conclusively prove a lot of things. An old earth an no single creation point being two of them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 9:58:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of science is just a guess. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 9:59:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Velociraptors in the movies aren't Velociraptors, they're UtahRaptors.... and having them jumping out of trees on me and hooking those claws into my kidneys while eating my dome makes them that much scarier to me. I have always assumed TRex was a scavenger, when you're king of the jungle, why waste time chasing stuff down? Just take whatever someone else kills, if they won't leave, eat them too. Great whites do the same.. No, they're "velociraptors" they just had a dumbass science team. Utahraptors are bigger than the Raptors in the Jurassic Park movie btw.... I could see TRex being like a Lion or most other modern day predatory animals. Lots of people have this idea that a Lion is out there always chasing down his prey, but really, they get alot of their food by just taking away what other animals killed. But to be a pure scavanger? Nah, I think it doesn't make sense to evolve into this giant animal with the strongest jaws the world has ever seen and have him basically be a giant opposum or something. All true scavangers that exist today are quick, small and agile. T-Rex is nothing like a prototypical scavenger. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/28/2015 11:47:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill.
The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 12:35:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Very interesting thread.
I dont have anything to contribute, but have a question. Why do t-rex's or similar build dinos have arms? What could they even do with them? Are they used for balance? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 1:59:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very interesting thread. I dont have anything to contribute, but have a question. Why do t-rex's or similar build dinos have arms? What could they even do with them? Are they used for balance? Human arms are actually longer than T-rex arms and have more mobility but the T-rex's arms were strong enough to hold over 400 pounds each. Probably, they saw minimal use in holding prey but more likely during mating to grab hold of the female. Realistically, they seem to have become a vestigial feature, like the hind legs on whales that don't even exit the body. The small arms is another feature that some scientist think the t-rex wasnt primarily a predator, as it would have onlynits jaws to latch onto a prey, while other predatorial dinos could use arms and legs and mouth, like cats, wolves, bears, hyenas. The dinosaur carnotaurus, similar in shape to the t-rex but smaller, had even smaller arms. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 2:36:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And that is just a guess on your part, since you have no idea how real science works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Most of science is just a guess. I assure you, I do. 
Everything that we "know" is based on other information that we assume to be correct. If any of the foundations of that idea are incorrect, then everything built on that idea is most certainly incorrect also. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 2:52:04 AM EDT
[#23]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 3:04:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill. The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. Nobody knows how fast a T Rex was; 18mph is an educated guess. And there were plenty of slower dinos for T Rex to eat. A lot of the herbivores were quite slow. And if they hunted in packs, like those tracks discovered in Canada suggest, they could have worked together to take down some huge herbivores, like wolves do to bison or moose. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 7:28:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope, as others said, that's not very current, and he most likely did both hunting and scavenging. The pack hunter idea is fairly new, since the supporting footprints were found in 2011. As if T Rex wasn't bad-ass enough; imagine a pack of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the theory that T-rex was a pack hunter? That comes primarily from footprints that were found. The current idea is that T-Rex was a scavenger, like a lion. Someone else makes a kill, and T-Rex shows up and takes it from you because fuck you, he's T-Rex. Nope, as others said, that's not very current, and he most likely did both hunting and scavenging. The pack hunter idea is fairly new, since the supporting footprints were found in 2011. As if T Rex wasn't bad-ass enough; imagine a pack of them. This. They may have pack hunted the large saurapod species like Alamosaurus. Have you ever seen a documentary on TV showing a pack of wolves hunting bison? Now imagine that same scene except both predator & prey being 50 times bigger. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 10:36:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody knows how fast a T Rex was; 18mph is an educated guess. And there were plenty of slower dinos for T Rex to eat. A lot of the herbivores were quite slow. And if they hunted in packs, like those tracks discovered in Canada suggest, they could have worked together to take down some huge herbivores, like wolves do to bison or moose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill. The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. Nobody knows how fast a T Rex was; 18mph is an educated guess. And there were plenty of slower dinos for T Rex to eat. A lot of the herbivores were quite slow. And if they hunted in packs, like those tracks discovered in Canada suggest, they could have worked together to take down some huge herbivores, like wolves do to bison or moose. The running speed wasn't based off a guess, they used a computer system that took into account many variables, such as muscles, gate length, size. The former T-Rex speed, 25 mph, was based on an educated guess. T. Rex Could Outrun Humans |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:01:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The running speed wasn't based off a guess, they used a computer system that took into account many variables, such as muscles, gate length, size. The former T-Rex speed, 25 mph, was based on an educated guess. T. Rex Could Outrun Humans Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill. The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. Nobody knows how fast a T Rex was; 18mph is an educated guess. And there were plenty of slower dinos for T Rex to eat. A lot of the herbivores were quite slow. And if they hunted in packs, like those tracks discovered in Canada suggest, they could have worked together to take down some huge herbivores, like wolves do to bison or moose. The running speed wasn't based off a guess, they used a computer system that took into account many variables, such as muscles, gate length, size. The former T-Rex speed, 25 mph, was based on an educated guess. T. Rex Could Outrun Humans Yeah, I know it was a computer model, written by humans. It's still just an educated guess, and not necessarily any more accurate than the old estimate. There will always be a shitload of conjecture in paleontology; it's unavoidable when studying something that old. Nobody has ever seen a fully intact T Rex muscle, much less a complete T Rex. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:07:14 PM EDT
[#28]
I like the one that postulates that the KT extinction was not actually caused by a meteor/asteroid, but rather a large nuclear detonation of the dinosaur's own manufacture.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:13:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
So watching Jurassic World got me into another dinosaur kick, the first one since I read Crighton's Jurassic Park back in the 90s. One thing I'm finding out is that a shit load of new theories have emerged or been debunked (as much as they can anyway) in the 25 years since the book was first written. I've been reading some magazine articles I found online and have learned a few cool new theories: - Velociraptor: Looks like it was covered in feathers. And it might have been able to fly a little, like a turkey. One of the more interesting theory I read is that the "slashing claw" on its toe, the one Grant is going on and on about in the first Jurassic Park movie, actually isn't well designed for slashing, as it doesn't have a sharp inside edge and that something about the design of the ligaments means not enough force could go into a slash. But what engineering experiments have demonstrated is that the talon was perfect for assisting with scaling trees, and for hooking into prey to latch on. So one new theory is that raptors would ambush prey by climbing trees and then jumping down on them, gliding with their wings, latching onto the animals back with their talons, keeping themselves upright by flapping their arms/wings, and biting the shit out of the prey's neck and spine. Pretty cool and whole shit load different from the raptors in Jurassic Park. More this: http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/198/b/8/velociraptor_by_vitor_silva-d57lxeq.jpg - T-Rex - Turns out there are a shitload of t-rex subspeicies, like over 12, with them differing in size and small skeletal features. Lots of them are being found in China. Nearly all t-rex fossils for youth show quill holes, meaning the young were most likely feathered. But some adult t-rex subspecies also had them. Then there is the theory which nearly caused all out war in the paleontologist community, that T-rex might have primarily been a scavenger, due to the massive size of the olfactory of its skull. With its size, stealth/ambush hunting would have been hard, but the size would allow it to chase off other predators and to steal its kills, something popular among lions and hyenas in Africa. Anyone got any other cool dinosaur theories? I heard the T-Rex stuff a long time ago. It's teeth are generally shallow-rooted and were ill-suited to tearing into the thick flesh of a live struggling dino. It is more likely that they found already dead prey with semi-rotting softer flesh that they were able to tear into. Also, their upper arms were tiny and not much use for anything other than taking bad selfies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:17:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not funny, it's how things are supposed to work in science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Funny how science changes. Proof we don't know anywhere near as much as we think we know at any given time. It's not funny, it's how things are supposed to work in science. I think he is referring to the apparent dogma from people that like to say "because science says so" whereas science itself, by its very nature, is an ever changing field of study as we are always acquiring new knowledge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:18:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't we just make Jurassic world a reality already? no. Any DNA found is decayed beyond the ability for any cloning. If they were to do it today, they would not be able to recreate dinosaurs, but rather make new dinosaur-like species of chickens. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:18:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still wouldn't want to fuck with one. Ever dealt with a pissed off turkey? Now Imagine it with a giant talon and sharp teeth...nope, fuck that Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All that information made the raptors scarier. Edit: http://new1.fjcdn.com/comments/Dromaeosaurs+are+boss+_b186e3b34e7fc4d9aa5d42286f6c771f.png https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HNLS3XMpnFo/VIZZiTRgVRI/AAAAAAAAAa4/VhNVAaXX05E/w800-h987/Giant_Dromaeosaurs.png I still wouldn't want to fuck with one. Ever dealt with a pissed off turkey? Now Imagine it with a giant talon and sharp teeth...nope, fuck that Or imagine a german shepherd with talons with an even bigger mouth that could attack you from the sky. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:24:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice contribution to this thread...  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. Nice contribution to this thread... Always has to be that one "edgy" guy.  Nick |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:27:12 PM EDT
[#34]
One thing that popped into my head, other than the obvious (kind of like critiquing the realism in walking dead) is that IIRC from watching dino documentaries with my 8 year old, is that it took a long time for big dinos to get big. I want to say it took like 15 to 20 years for a T Rex to grow to full size. Most of the T Rex finds have been juveniles. In the movie, they make it seem like their new and improved predator was grown in a year or so. Then they have the huge sauropods which I think took even longer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:32:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing that popped into my head, other than the obvious (kind of like critiquing the realism in walking dead) is that IIRC from watching dino documentaries with my 8 year old, is that it took a long time for big dinos to get big. I want to say it took like 15 to 20 years for a T Rex to grow to full size. Most of the T Rex finds have been juveniles. In the movie, they make it seem like their new and improved predator was grown in a year or so. Then they have the huge sauropods which I think took even longer. The Indominus Rex was created faster than normal using genetic manipulation, and even then it wasn't fully grown. Many of the other dinosaurs it seems were leftovers from the 1st Jurassic Park exhibit, like the T-Rex, which was definitely supposed to be the same one from the 1st movie, so they were over 20 years old. But its a movie, so artistic license and everything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:38:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Indominus Rex was created faster than normal using genetic manipulation, and even then it wasn't fully grown. Many of the other dinosaurs it seems were leftovers from the 1st Jurassic Park exhibit, like the T-Rex, which was definitely supposed to be the same one from the 1st movie, so they were over 20 years old. But its a movie, so artistic license and everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing that popped into my head, other than the obvious (kind of like critiquing the realism in walking dead) is that IIRC from watching dino documentaries with my 8 year old, is that it took a long time for big dinos to get big. I want to say it took like 15 to 20 years for a T Rex to grow to full size. Most of the T Rex finds have been juveniles. In the movie, they make it seem like their new and improved predator was grown in a year or so. Then they have the huge sauropods which I think took even longer. The Indominus Rex was created faster than normal using genetic manipulation, and even then it wasn't fully grown. Many of the other dinosaurs it seems were leftovers from the 1st Jurassic Park exhibit, like the T-Rex, which was definitely supposed to be the same one from the 1st movie, so they were over 20 years old. But its a movie, so artistic license and everything. The Asian scientist certainly didn't age any in 20 years. I guess that's realistic.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 4:44:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Needs PEW sound effect. Quote History
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:14:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even Horner, who was the one that pushed the scavenger role, has conceded that it probably hunted too. I do wonder about it hunted. It weighed as much as an elephant, was 15 feet tall, how exactly did it hunt by stealth? It wasn't a pack hunter so tactics are out. It was only medium fast, maybe a full 1 mph faster than a maiasaur, and was actually slower than a triceratops. So running down pretty is out. I think that's why I still lean more on scavenging than hunting, as it's size and olfactory senses would allow it to find and steal a kill from another smaller predator dino. If the circumstances were right it could hunt its own prey but a more assured meal would probably come from just following the large herbivore sauropod packs and picking off the weak or young, or eating carrion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How about the theory that T-rex was a pack hunter? That comes primarily from footprints that were found. The current idea is that T-Rex was a scavenger, like a lion. Someone else makes a kill, and T-Rex shows up and takes it from you because fuck you, he's T-Rex. Nope, as others said, that's not very current, and he most likely did both hunting and scavenging. The pack hunter idea is fairly new, since the supporting footprints were found in 2011. As if T Rex wasn't bad-ass enough; imagine a pack of them. Even Horner, who was the one that pushed the scavenger role, has conceded that it probably hunted too. I do wonder about it hunted. It weighed as much as an elephant, was 15 feet tall, how exactly did it hunt by stealth? It wasn't a pack hunter so tactics are out. It was only medium fast, maybe a full 1 mph faster than a maiasaur, and was actually slower than a triceratops. So running down pretty is out. I think that's why I still lean more on scavenging than hunting, as it's size and olfactory senses would allow it to find and steal a kill from another smaller predator dino. If the circumstances were right it could hunt its own prey but a more assured meal would probably come from just following the large herbivore sauropod packs and picking off the weak or young, or eating carrion. Who knows how sharp the hearing of dinos were, how directional, how sharp their eyesight was, how developed their nose was. Oh sure, we can conjecture based on how big we thin the olfactory bulb was, but we have no way of knowing ounce-for-ounce it their bulb is as powerful as a modern equivalent, or if like in most cases through evolution modern olfactory bulbs have better connections, more dense clusters of neurons, etc. We don't know if the receptors in the nose itself were as efficient and selective to provide quality information to the olfactory bulb, etc. Lots of dinosaur behavior is wild conjecture based loosely on how modern animals behave |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:23:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not funny, it's how things are supposed to work in science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Funny how science changes. Proof we don't know anywhere near as much as we think we know at any given time. It's not funny, it's how things are supposed to work in science. Precisely why AGW is just a theory. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:23:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very interesting thread. I dont have anything to contribute, but have a question. Why do t-rex's or similar build dinos have arms? What could they even do with them? Are they used for balance? The answer is we have a ton of theories as to why a dino structured like T-rex has such small arms, as it doesn't appear they'd help much in many tasks. And that might be the answer right there. If you have a massive body and a giant jaw and your arms are proportionate to your body but don't help you much because hey, MASSIVE JAWS! Then an individual who doesn't waste calories investing in 'average size' limbs but instead has smallish limbs might have an evolutionary advantage. Rinse and Repeat, and this leads to small, then very small, then tiny arms. Maybe T-rex had tiny arms simply because it hadn't yet evolved to the no-arm point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:31:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So my adult Albertasaurus tooth is a juvenile T-Rex tooth? I don't buy it. Taking present day birds as an example, there are a lot of structural and anatomical differences between a baby Finch and an adult Finch -- but there are also hundreds of varieties of Finches, including some that are bigger and some that are smaller. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is an interesting Ted Talk I saw that says that what we think are discoveries of different varieties of T-Rex are really different age groups of T-Rex. This also seems to be the case of a lot of the triceritopsids, and a lot of the other dinos as well, significant structural changes happening in late adolescence ala birds vs the standard reptile system of staying the same and getting bigger and bigger, causing across-the-board misidentification of young and adolescent forms as separate species https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaurs So my adult Albertasaurus tooth is a juvenile T-Rex tooth? I don't buy it. Taking present day birds as an example, there are a lot of structural and anatomical differences between a baby Finch and an adult Finch -- but there are also hundreds of varieties of Finches, including some that are bigger and some that are smaller. But until then from what I've seen of his research his conclusions seem compelling. Absolutely not 100% solid 'as good as the theory of gravity' type compelling, but still solid. If it was just an analysis of jaw size and tooth count, that would be one thing, but when backed up by bone growth, it's quite solid. Until you have something equally compelling...like say be able to come up with a juvenile T-rex skeleton, or that our understanding of bone growth doesn't apply to dinos, I'm going with Horner. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:40:43 PM EDT
[#42]
I predict we'll find badly eroded +/- 65 Myrs old probes from DASA in our Solar System sooner or later.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 5:56:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I await your scholarly article on this subject refuting the claims made by Dr Horner. There are many researchers who have done just that against his claims or against claims of other researchers. But until then from what I've seen of his research his conclusions seem compelling. Absolutely not 100% solid 'as good as the theory of gravity' type compelling, but still solid. If it was just an analysis of jaw size and tooth count, that would be one thing, but when backed up by bone growth, it's quite solid. Until you have something equally compelling...like say be able to come up with a juvenile T-rex skeleton, or that our understanding of bone growth doesn't apply to dinos, I'm going with Horner. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is an interesting Ted Talk I saw that says that what we think are discoveries of different varieties of T-Rex are really different age groups of T-Rex. This also seems to be the case of a lot of the triceritopsids, and a lot of the other dinos as well, significant structural changes happening in late adolescence ala birds vs the standard reptile system of staying the same and getting bigger and bigger, causing across-the-board misidentification of young and adolescent forms as separate species https://www.ted.com/talks/jack_horner_shape_shifting_dinosaurs So my adult Albertasaurus tooth is a juvenile T-Rex tooth? I don't buy it. Taking present day birds as an example, there are a lot of structural and anatomical differences between a baby Finch and an adult Finch -- but there are also hundreds of varieties of Finches, including some that are bigger and some that are smaller. But until then from what I've seen of his research his conclusions seem compelling. Absolutely not 100% solid 'as good as the theory of gravity' type compelling, but still solid. If it was just an analysis of jaw size and tooth count, that would be one thing, but when backed up by bone growth, it's quite solid. Until you have something equally compelling...like say be able to come up with a juvenile T-rex skeleton, or that our understanding of bone growth doesn't apply to dinos, I'm going with Horner. FYI, Horner isn't a real PhD, he doesn't have any actual degrees other than honorary. He's a hobby paleontologist. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:02:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no. Any DNA found is decayed beyond the ability for any cloning. If they were to do it today, they would not be able to recreate dinosaurs, but rather make new dinosaur-like species of chickens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can't we just make Jurassic world a reality already? no. Any DNA found is decayed beyond the ability for any cloning. If they were to do it today, they would not be able to recreate dinosaurs, but rather make new dinosaur-like species of chickens. Mmmm, KFD. (kentucky fried dino) |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:13:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M60E4, with red dot sight. M320 GL with HEDP for larger dinos Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone will be along soon to explain how the earth is only 6000 years old and fossils were placed by the devil to lead man astray. Perhaps it will be Justice Scalia. haha, you're witty and edgy! You must be cool! And well read! and Smart! So cool! BTW I'm Christian and there is room in Christian Theology for Dinosaurs and other fun stuff, like evolution...... don't get all closed minded on us Eugene.... I, for one, would like to hear a brief bit about how dinosaurs fit into Christian Theology. Long discussion better suited to the religion forum, I think the better question is: What round for feathered, tree jumping, short hop flying UtahRaptor hell bent on making you lunch? .577 T-Rex seems obvious, but that's a one-and-done cartridge, if you miss, you're pooched. M-14 in .308 seems a little light.... M60E4, with red dot sight. M320 GL with HEDP for larger dinos Garand in .35Whelen or 9.3x62 |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:15:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill. The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. Male lions hunt all the time. Not all males run a pride, most are loners. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:16:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. They may have pack hunted the large saurapod species like Alamosaurus. Have you ever seen a documentary on TV showing a pack of wolves hunting bison? Now imagine that same scene except both predator & prey being 50 times bigger.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the theory that T-rex was a pack hunter? That comes primarily from footprints that were found. The current idea is that T-Rex was a scavenger, like a lion. Someone else makes a kill, and T-Rex shows up and takes it from you because fuck you, he's T-Rex. Nope, as others said, that's not very current, and he most likely did both hunting and scavenging. The pack hunter idea is fairly new, since the supporting footprints were found in 2011. As if T Rex wasn't bad-ass enough; imagine a pack of them. This. They may have pack hunted the large saurapod species like Alamosaurus. Have you ever seen a documentary on TV showing a pack of wolves hunting bison? Now imagine that same scene except both predator & prey being 50 times bigger.
I think it's called Arctic Warriors, it's on Netflix. Those are some badASS wolves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:20:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Male lions hunt all the time. Not all males run a pride, most are loners. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Look at adult male lions though, they rarely hunt, the females of the prides do most of the hunting and then the bigger males saunter over and push everyone else out of the way and eat their fill. The biggest issue I see in T-Rex being a predator is the method in which it hunted. It was 15 feet tall at normal stance, so the grass isn't going hide it. It weighed 13,000 lbs so its not exactly light on its feet. It ran at max speed of 18 mph (Usain Bolt ran 100 meters at 27 mph, a hadrosaur could do 24 mph, and Velicoraptor could go 54 mph), so its not exactly going to be chasing down anything easy to kill down. The only successful hunting method I can see is to pick off sick and injured dinos, the young that stray from herds, or to somehow get ahead of the herd's direction of movement and hide out right off the game trail and sit in bush until an unsuspecting and slow dino walks by. Or he can just stay downwind and follow a big herd of herbivores, which would attract all sort of other herbivore and carnivorous species, and just steal every kill its nose can find, regardless of size. Male lions hunt all the time. Not all males run a pride, most are loners. I didn't said they didn't hunt, I said they rarely did, as female lions are known to do most of the hunting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 6:41:13 PM EDT
[#49]
I always heard they think raptors were smart but how smart? Could they hold a candle to modern parrots?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/29/2015 10:01:13 PM EDT
[#50]
I absolutely howl with laughter when scientists think they can divine behavior from scant, let alone com complete, skeletal remains.
Look at a turkey, for example. From its skeleton, you would be able to divine so little about its true behavior. Can a skull tell you about a head that alternates between black and red and neon blue? How' bout its wattle or "beard" and how important those are to its mating cycle? Its plumage and tail display? Scientists are fucked in the head if they think they can divine such things from fossils. And I'm not saying they should not try to divine such things, but they need to inject some humility into all their pontifying 'n' speachifyin'. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
