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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:17:01 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I say we are pre-Sullla but not by much - maybe 40-100 years? History and events move a lot faster these days. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:17:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I say we are pre-Sullla but not by much - maybe 40-100 10 years? FIFY... |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:17:55 PM EDT
[#3]
English please
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:19:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:19:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Rome, GA?
Rome, NY? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:20:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rome, GA? Rome, NY? Rome, Italy. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:20:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. ok, what obama is tring to do now. 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:21:28 PM EDT
[#8]
I'll be impatiently waiting for our Julius Caesar then.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:22:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
English please Roman Senate. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:23:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok, what obama is tring to do now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. ok, what obama is tring to do now. No, Obama is pushing the divisiveness. The purges, pogroms, executions, and dictatorship are still to come. We haven't had the counter-reaction from the opposing forces yet. That will be, if history stays true to form, what kicks off the American version of the Social Wars. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:23:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be impatiently waiting for our Julius Caesar then. Julius Caesar was a member of the Populares, which was the Roman equivalent of the Democratic party. 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:25:58 PM EDT
[#12]
great minds, i just posted something similar.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:27:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Julius Caesar was a member of the Populares, which was the Roman equivalent of the Democratic party. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll be impatiently waiting for our Julius Caesar then. Julius Caesar was a member of the Populares, which was the Roman equivalent of the Democratic party. Kinda sorta not really. The Optimates were pretty much the RINOs of today and pretty fucked over everyone that wasn't born into the "high class". |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:28:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
great minds, i just posted something similar. And fools seldom differ  What's the link so I can read that one?
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:34:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. The interesting part though is that the arguably necessary military reforms of Gaius Marius created the situation that made the legions personally loyal to Sulla rather than to Rome as an ideal. It is doubly ironic that this would lead to Sulla running Marius out of town so to speak. And then Sulla's actions to "restore" the Roman constitution effectively killed the Republic by showing where the real source of power lied and that the people would tolerate it. In the end both Sulla and Marius sewed the seeds of their own defeat. However, my timeline assumption is based on the fact that right now there is no personality cullt where there is an armed force devoted to a person rather than a nation. We're not far from it in the sense that the law is now commonly disregarded by those in power and that precedent serves to encourage future disregard for the law; but the underlying ability to make the law through force loyal to a single individual hasn't yet started to form and that's a key component of any tyranny. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:40:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, Obama is pushing the divisiveness. The purges, pogroms, executions, and dictatorship are still to come. We haven't had the counter-reaction from the opposing forces yet. That will be, if history stays true to form, what kicks off the American version of the Social Wars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. ok, what obama is tring to do now. No, Obama is pushing the divisiveness. The purges, pogroms, executions, and dictatorship are still to come. We haven't had the counter-reaction from the opposing forces yet. That will be, if history stays true to form, what kicks off the American version of the Social Wars. I stand corrected 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:50:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The interesting part though is that the arguably necessary military reforms of Gaius Marius created the situation that made the legions personally loyal to Sulla rather than to Rome as an ideal. It is doubly ironic that this would lead to Sulla running Marius out of town so to speak. And then Sulla's actions to "restore" the Roman constitution effectively killed the Republic by showing where the real source of power lied and that the people would tolerate it. In the end both Sulla and Marius sewed the seeds of their own defeat. However, my timeline assumption is based on the fact that right now there is no personality cullt where there is an armed force devoted to a person rather than a nation. We're not far from it in the sense that the law is now commonly disregarded by those in power and that precedent serves to encourage future disregard for the law; but the underlying ability to make the law through force loyal to a single individual hasn't yet started to form and that's a key component of any tyranny. I agree with you, but I think the tinder is piled high, and all we need is a spark at this point. The left has made their naked contempt of the rule of law pretty obvious. Sooner or later, the conservatives are going stop simply wondering why they play by the rules and lose while the other side dispenses with the rules to win and gravitate towards taking action - either stealing from the left's playbook or utilizing other means. At that point, all it will take (IMHO) is a charismatic leader who isn't compromised and is uncompromisable in the conventional sense (can't be blackmailed or bought off) leading the charge, and we will usher in the social war. I do think the spark will come from overreach on the part of the left first though (and no, ACA ain't it). You see this at multiple levels right now, where otherwise sedate people are chomping at the bit to redress balances. And while I certainly sympathize with a lot of that undercurrent, I also realize that this is how dictatorships are made. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:57:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with you, but I think the tinder is piled high, and all we need is a spark at this point. The left has made their naked contempt of the rule of law pretty obvious. Sooner or later, the conservatives are going stop simply wondering why they play by the rules and lose while the other side dispenses with the rules to win and gravitate towards taking action - either stealing from the left's playbook or utilizing other means. At that point, all it will take (IMHO) is a charismatic leader who isn't compromised and is uncompromisable in the conventional sense (can't be blackmailed or bought off) leading the charge, and we will usher in the social war. I do think the spark will come from overreach on the part of the left first though (and no, ACA ain't it). You see this at multiple levels right now, where otherwise sedate people are chomping at the bit to redress balances. And while I certainly sympathize with a lot of that undercurrent, I also realize that this is how dictatorships are made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The interesting part though is that the arguably necessary military reforms of Gaius Marius created the situation that made the legions personally loyal to Sulla rather than to Rome as an ideal. It is doubly ironic that this would lead to Sulla running Marius out of town so to speak. And then Sulla's actions to "restore" the Roman constitution effectively killed the Republic by showing where the real source of power lied lay and that the people would tolerate it. In the end both Sulla and Marius sewed the seeds of their own defeat. However, my timeline assumption is based on the fact that right now there is no personality cullt where there is an armed force devoted to a person rather than a nation. We're not far from it in the sense that the law is now commonly disregarded by those in power and that precedent serves to encourage future disregard for the law; but the underlying ability to make the law through force loyal to a single individual hasn't yet started to form and that's a key component of any tyranny. I agree with you, but I think the tinder is piled high, and all we need is a spark at this point. The left has made their naked contempt of the rule of law pretty obvious. Sooner or later, the conservatives are going stop simply wondering why they play by the rules and lose while the other side dispenses with the rules to win and gravitate towards taking action - either stealing from the left's playbook or utilizing other means. At that point, all it will take (IMHO) is a charismatic leader who isn't compromised and is uncompromisable in the conventional sense (can't be blackmailed or bought off) leading the charge, and we will usher in the social war. I do think the spark will come from overreach on the part of the left first though (and no, ACA ain't it). You see this at multiple levels right now, where otherwise sedate people are chomping at the bit to redress balances. And while I certainly sympathize with a lot of that undercurrent, I also realize that this is how dictatorships are made. The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. IMO, that is really the only ingredient we are missing in that particular stew. We've already got a general derision of the actual Constitutional process that you wouldn't see even in the Roman Empire for several generations after Caesar; The Caesarian rulers at least made an attempt to pretend that that Republican forms of government still had power long after that was no longer the case. On the plus side, you don't (yet) see the political parties dragging their opponents out of the Forum and murdering them to make their point. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 3:59:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with you, but I think the tinder is piled high, and all we need is a spark at this point. The left has made their naked contempt of the rule of law pretty obvious. Sooner or later, the conservatives are going stop simply wondering why they play by the rules and lose while the other side dispenses with the rules to win and gravitate towards taking action - either stealing from the left's playbook or utilizing other means. At that point, all it will take (IMHO) is a charismatic leader who isn't compromised and is uncompromisable in the conventional sense (can't be blackmailed or bought off) leading the charge, and we will usher in the social war. I do think the spark will come from overreach on the part of the left first though (and no, ACA ain't it). You see this at multiple levels right now, where otherwise sedate people are chomping at the bit to redress balances. And while I certainly sympathize with a lot of that undercurrent, I also realize that this is how dictatorships are made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The interesting part though is that the arguably necessary military reforms of Gaius Marius created the situation that made the legions personally loyal to Sulla rather than to Rome as an ideal. It is doubly ironic that this would lead to Sulla running Marius out of town so to speak. And then Sulla's actions to "restore" the Roman constitution effectively killed the Republic by showing where the real source of power lied and that the people would tolerate it. In the end both Sulla and Marius sewed the seeds of their own defeat. However, my timeline assumption is based on the fact that right now there is no personality cullt where there is an armed force devoted to a person rather than a nation. We're not far from it in the sense that the law is now commonly disregarded by those in power and that precedent serves to encourage future disregard for the law; but the underlying ability to make the law through force loyal to a single individual hasn't yet started to form and that's a key component of any tyranny. I agree with you, but I think the tinder is piled high, and all we need is a spark at this point. The left has made their naked contempt of the rule of law pretty obvious. Sooner or later, the conservatives are going stop simply wondering why they play by the rules and lose while the other side dispenses with the rules to win and gravitate towards taking action - either stealing from the left's playbook or utilizing other means. At that point, all it will take (IMHO) is a charismatic leader who isn't compromised and is uncompromisable in the conventional sense (can't be blackmailed or bought off) leading the charge, and we will usher in the social war. I do think the spark will come from overreach on the part of the left first though (and no, ACA ain't it). You see this at multiple levels right now, where otherwise sedate people are chomping at the bit to redress balances. And while I certainly sympathize with a lot of that undercurrent, I also realize that this is how dictatorships are made. Purges, revolts, insurrections, genocides, rogue armies and civil war were faily common in Rome. after Accomodus, just about ever ceasar was assasinated. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:03:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I say we are pre-Sullla but not by much - maybe 40-100 years? In some ways yes, and in some ways no. Additionally, I believe the Information Age will cause ocelations to occur at a more rapid rate and among a much larger basket of markers. Example: our currency is fucked already, if we are pre Sulla this would be anachronistic. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:09:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:16:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? That is the question that sparks my curiousity. On the one hand, you have a group that clearly has strong allegiances with socialism ideologically, However, they have either missed every single "How to be a tyrant" lecture presented by history or they are simply too ignorant to be aware of it. Unless you have a substantial military force devoted to a person rather than the nation, you lack one of the basic ingredients for tyranny. Yet at the same time, I see so many analogues to ancient Roman history, that it is hard to ignore those just because there are no obvious legions to carry out the wishes of Sulla. In terms of recognizing a very real and imminent threat to our way of life, we need to be very cognizant of institutions that are loyal to individuals rather than the nation as a whole (even the parts of the nation we do not like). |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:17:23 PM EDT
[#23]
10-20 years.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:24:05 PM EDT
[#24]
ive ecen got my proscription list all worked out. ill just keep it to myself though
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:29:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ive ecen got my proscription list all worked out. ill just keep it to myself though Proscription only works if you are the consul on the top of the heap.* *Although Sulla survived Marius's proscription and Marius (briefly) survived Sulla's proscription. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:30:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Listening to Hard Core History podcast. Between the Rome lessons and the American Revolution lessons we are well down the road of repeating history. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:47:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ok, what obama is tring to do now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
English please Sulla basically assumed dictatorial powers by marching on Rome after political divisiveness in Rome reached a head and proceeded to purge (re: execute) those deemed to be enemies of the state. Sulla was on the side of the aristocracy of Rome. ok, what obama is tring to do now. The 3rd, and final ruler is yet to come. Obama is setting the stage for the one to cure all that ails the World. There must be chaos before there can be order, we've already begun chaos, order is soon after. Then, the real show begins. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:52:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? Great question, I remember a few reports and video about some youth after he was elected, but the MSM has been strangely silent on that subject for years now. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:58:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And fools seldom differ What's the link so I can read that one?Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
great minds, i just posted something similar. And fools seldom differ What's the link so I can read that one?i have a pet theory that the reason why Latin is no longer pushed in the curriculum as a necessity to being an educated man is b/c it would lead to studying Rome, its personalities, its history, & its downfall. as the student would look up from his books & see the present USA was heading down an all too familiar path, Latin was quietly pulled from the curriculum, so as not to allow an educated populace to recognize the similarities. i'll bet that this happened during the rise of the hippies, in the late 1960s into the 1970s when they entered the ranks of those who would teach & formulate curriculum. the various other arguments of Latin being a dead language, etc, are just a smoke screen. excellent thread, gents. 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:59:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
History and events move a lot faster these days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I say we are pre-Sullla but not by much - maybe 40-100 years? History and events move a lot faster these days. yeah what took 50 years before can happen in 50 hours today. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:31:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Proscription only works if you are the consul on the top of the heap.* *Although Sulla survived Marius's proscription and Marius (briefly) survived Sulla's proscription. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ive ecen got my proscription list all worked out. ill just keep it to myself though Proscription only works if you are the consul on the top of the heap.* *Although Sulla survived Marius's proscription and Marius (briefly) survived Sulla's proscription. dont test me lest I add to my list. (and caesar survived Sulla's as well) ETA: and I also think we are pre-Gracci as well, though we are really getting close to this one IMO. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:33:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have a pet theory that the reason why Latin is no longer pushed in the curriculum as a necessity to being an educated man is b/c it would lead to studying Rome, its personalities, its history, & its downfall. as the student would look up from his books & see the present USA was heading down an all too familiar path, Latin was quietly pulled from the curriculum, so as not to allow an educated populace to recognize the similarities. i'll bet that this happened during the rise of the hippies, in the late 1960s into the 1970s when they entered the ranks of those who would teach & formulate curriculum. the various other arguments of Latin being a dead language, etc, are just a smoke screen. excellent thread, gents. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
great minds, i just posted something similar. And fools seldom differ What's the link so I can read that one?i have a pet theory that the reason why Latin is no longer pushed in the curriculum as a necessity to being an educated man is b/c it would lead to studying Rome, its personalities, its history, & its downfall. as the student would look up from his books & see the present USA was heading down an all too familiar path, Latin was quietly pulled from the curriculum, so as not to allow an educated populace to recognize the similarities. i'll bet that this happened during the rise of the hippies, in the late 1960s into the 1970s when they entered the ranks of those who would teach & formulate curriculum. the various other arguments of Latin being a dead language, etc, are just a smoke screen. excellent thread, gents. Honestly, I've had the same thought a lot lately. That Greco-Roman history is no longer taught because if you did, it would be obvious that some of the major power factions now are full of shit. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:35:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dont test me lest I add to my list. (and caesar survived Sulla's as well) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ive ecen got my proscription list all worked out. ill just keep it to myself though Proscription only works if you are the consul on the top of the heap.* *Although Sulla survived Marius's proscription and Marius (briefly) survived Sulla's proscription. dont test me lest I add to my list. (and caesar survived Sulla's as well) In that man there are many Marius's
Honestly, despite all of Sulla's straight out stomping on the Constitution of Rome, it seems clear he was ideologically motivated as opposed to driven by power; because had he been driven by power he would have A) not surrendered his dictatorship B) not spared Caesar another good lesson there I am sure... |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:37:58 PM EDT
[#34]
We might be headed toward a Caligula or a Nero
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:52:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We might be headed toward a Caligula or a Nero Hell, Obama is Nero, he is destroying everything, can we just get on to the orgies.......? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:15:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hell, Obama is Nero, he is destroying everything, can we just get on to the orgies.......? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We might be headed toward a Caligula or a Nero Hell, Obama is Nero, he is destroying everything, can we just get on to the orgies.......? As much as I dislike Obama, he is nowhere near a Nero. Thankfully, we still have a long way to go to reach that level. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:23:50 PM EDT
[#37]
I've said it for years. At our furrent rate, we will be doomed to become Rome, and the ultimate fall will be the same. Seperate nation-states we will end up being.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:25:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've said it for years. At our furrent rate, we will be doomed to become Rome, and the ultimate fall will be the same. Seperate nation-states we will end up being. As long as our side gets to be Byzantium. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:26:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Snap and american idol/obama phones
bread and circuses |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:33:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is the question that sparks my curiousity. On the one hand, you have a group that clearly has strong allegiances with socialism ideologically, However, they have either missed every single "How to be a tyrant" lecture presented by history or they are simply too ignorant to be aware of it. Unless you have a substantial military force devoted to a person rather than the nation, you lack one of the basic ingredients for tyranny. Yet at the same time, I see so many analogues to ancient Roman history, that it is hard to ignore those just because there are no obvious legions to carry out the wishes of Sulla. In terms of recognizing a very real and imminent threat to our way of life, we need to be very cognizant of institutions that are loyal to individuals rather than the nation as a whole (even the parts of the nation we do not like). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? That is the question that sparks my curiousity. On the one hand, you have a group that clearly has strong allegiances with socialism ideologically, However, they have either missed every single "How to be a tyrant" lecture presented by history or they are simply too ignorant to be aware of it. Unless you have a substantial military force devoted to a person rather than the nation, you lack one of the basic ingredients for tyranny. Yet at the same time, I see so many analogues to ancient Roman history, that it is hard to ignore those just because there are no obvious legions to carry out the wishes of Sulla. In terms of recognizing a very real and imminent threat to our way of life, we need to be very cognizant of institutions that are loyal to individuals rather than the nation as a whole (even the parts of the nation we do not like). If citizens have no principles, and don't care about liberty, then soft tyranny is all that is required. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:37:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If citizens have no principles, and don't care about liberty, then soft tyranny is all that is required. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? That is the question that sparks my curiousity. On the one hand, you have a group that clearly has strong allegiances with socialism ideologically, However, they have either missed every single "How to be a tyrant" lecture presented by history or they are simply too ignorant to be aware of it. Unless you have a substantial military force devoted to a person rather than the nation, you lack one of the basic ingredients for tyranny. Yet at the same time, I see so many analogues to ancient Roman history, that it is hard to ignore those just because there are no obvious legions to carry out the wishes of Sulla. In terms of recognizing a very real and imminent threat to our way of life, we need to be very cognizant of institutions that are loyal to individuals rather than the nation as a whole (even the parts of the nation we do not like). If citizens have no principles, and don't care about liberty, then soft tyranny is all that is required. Would you care to expand on that thesis? Because I don't understand the point you are attempting to make. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#42]
What kind of a hat should I wear when the sky is falling?
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:43:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would you care to expand on that thesis? Because I don't understand the point you are attempting to make. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? That is the question that sparks my curiousity. On the one hand, you have a group that clearly has strong allegiances with socialism ideologically, However, they have either missed every single "How to be a tyrant" lecture presented by history or they are simply too ignorant to be aware of it. Unless you have a substantial military force devoted to a person rather than the nation, you lack one of the basic ingredients for tyranny. Yet at the same time, I see so many analogues to ancient Roman history, that it is hard to ignore those just because there are no obvious legions to carry out the wishes of Sulla. In terms of recognizing a very real and imminent threat to our way of life, we need to be very cognizant of institutions that are loyal to individuals rather than the nation as a whole (even the parts of the nation we do not like). If citizens have no principles, and don't care about liberty, then soft tyranny is all that is required. Would you care to expand on that thesis? Because I don't understand the point you are attempting to make. i think its the bread/circuses argument. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 6:53:21 PM EDT
[#44]
You don't have to compare the U.S. specifically to Rome,you can use any empire and still draw the same correlation.
I definitely see the US in its decendancy. When an empire has the following and we are an empire: runaway debt and unsustainable economic policies needs to import foreign workers in order to perform jobs the existing citizen class refuses too, a government that no longer listens to its people, rejects its own history, a constant state of war your on the downslope,the question is how long too the bottom.unfortunately that question won't be answered till long after it happens. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:01:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've said it for years. At our furrent rate, we will be doomed to become Rome, and the ultimate fall will be the same. Seperate nation-states we will end up being. That would be the best of possible outcomes, in my opinion. Just pray we don't have a five hundred year Dark Age like we did the last time around. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:05:43 PM EDT
[#46]
It took over 500 years for Rome as an empire to fall. It won't take us that long! We are way past the heady times of Augustus, Trajan and Hadrian. We are in the times of Elagabalus right now I think! Shit is weird but things are chugging along. When the Vandals and Gauls start sacking DC you know time is short!
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:06:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? DHS. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:12:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The thing is that any big move in that direction requires the military (or an even more decisive section of law enforcement) to strongly identify with a particular ruler. I don't see a Democrat getting that kind of military support. Don't see much of the rank-and-file of law enforcement supporting Obama, even if all law enforcement duties were federalized. What ever came of Obama's "civilian security force"? "We are a nation of immigrants! We welcome all and you can receive full citizenship for yourself and your families by serving ten years in the American Foreign Legion. This I will do for you!" Not sure who is going to say it, but... |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:40:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don't have to compare the U.S. specifically to Rome,you can use any empire and still draw the same correlation. I definitely see the US in its decendancy. When an empire has the following and we are an empire: runaway debt and unsustainable economic policies needs to import foreign workers in order to perform jobs the existing citizen class refuses too, a government that no longer listens to its people, rejects its own history, a constant state of war your on the downslope,the question is how long too the bottom.unfortunately that question won't be answered till long after it happens. Rome may not have lasted long as a Republic under those conditions; but it lasted centuries as an empire under those conditions. |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 1:29:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Maybe Obama will nominate a horse to the USSC
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