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Posted: 7/2/2015 10:26:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Letter to PS magazine The TM for the M16/M4 family of weapons, TM 9-1005-319-10, describes the clearing procedures for the weapon to be used prior to cleaning, disassembly, transport or storage. 1. Point weapon in safe direction. Place selector lever on SAFE. If weapon is not cocked, lever can’t be pointed toward safe. 2. Remove cartridge magazine by depressing magazine catch button pulling cartridge magazine out of the weapon 3. To lock bolt open, pull charging handle rearward. Press bottom of bolt catch and allow bolt to move forward until it engages bolt catch. Return charging handle to the forward position. Check receiver and chamber to ensure these areas are clear of ammo. 4. With selector lever pointing towards SAFE, allow bolt to go forward by pressing upper portion of bolt catch. That’s it. However many armorers and commanders demand the step of physically dry firing the weapon as part the clearing procedure going against the technical manual. Doing so is unnecessary and unsafe. The M16/M4 has an extremely effective safety mechanism. Deliberately moving to fire and pulling the trigger in the name of safety is oxymoronic. Furthermore, there is no metallurgical reason to do so. The hammer spring remains under tension in either the cocked or fired position with little difference and modern springs are in no way weakened by remaining under tension. If you want a safe weapon, keep it on safe and don't pull the trigger. This is basic gun safety and IAW with the TM. Everyone should be informed of the proper standard and leaders at every level should enforce it. I'm interested to learn the outcome. You pretty much mushroom stamped their forehead with the circumcised penis of truth, and bagged their chin with the hairy testicles of science fact. Will they respond with logic, or emotion? I eagerly await their response. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:20:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if it was drilled into me from my old Army days but I always (unless the bore is scorching hot,) look & then feel the chamber with a pinkie. On most weapons, a look is good enough. During hours of limited visibility, use a white light. Make a white light and a buddy check the standard for shooting in groups. Enforce it for training/classes, and you'll never have an ND. I used to look and then stick my pinky in the chamber so people around me knew I physically checked it. I did that in a 240 with a bad sear once. Once. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:25:53 AM EDT
[#3]
This is why I take pics of my PS90, the safety is horizontal so nobody can tell if it's on or off
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:43:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why I take pics of my PS90, the safety is horizontal so nobody can tell if it's on or off Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why I take pics of my PS90, the safety is horizontal so nobody can tell if it's on or off Interesting. Sloppy this, sloppy that. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1706704__ARCHIVED_THREAD____Have_you_ever_had_a_negligent_discharge_.html&page=3#i51459712 Quoted:
Closest I had was an unintentional double with a 1911 (hit the target holder ). Actually, I did have a Norinco Uzi that went full auto on me... lots of unintentional discharges there. Then a few strings of intentional ones. Sloppy trigger control. Sloppy weapons handling. Gross. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 3:19:02 AM EDT
[#5]
This is like watching someone play lemmings on DOS
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Posted: 7/3/2015 4:39:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you safety nazi. This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 5:18:51 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector.
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Posted: 7/3/2015 5:52:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you safety nazi. This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Serious question, if you're willing to answer honestly, have you ever had an ND? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 10:49:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you safety nazi. This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Sounds like you may have been counseled a few times by "that guy". 
Following 4 simple rules and demanding other do so while they are in your presence is pretty far from "over zealous". Muzzle sweep me with a loaded AR with the safety off and the "zealous" factor is going to be way over your comfort level but it won't be "over zealous" for the situation.
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Posted: 7/3/2015 10:56:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:57:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thank you safety nazi. This ^^ No one likes the over zealous safety queer. You're that guy. Keep your finger away from the trigger unless you plan to shoot. It's simple bud. Don't turn something simple into rocket queer science. Guess how many gun owners didn't shoot themselves today? Yep, it is simple. Your finger isn't the only thing that could potentially touch the trigger. It's so simple, you should just use the safety. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 2:18:03 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:27:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:29:03 AM EDT
[#14]
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I actually do have some big beefy wrists bro. Wanna try and wrap your thumb and middle finger around 'em? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 8:34:21 AM EDT
[#15]
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I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. I make that challenge to their wives, but this is a different GD than when I joined. 
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Posted: 7/4/2015 9:12:51 AM EDT
[#16]
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I actually do have some big beefy wrists bro. Wanna try and wrap your thumb and middle finger around 'em? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. Yes. Pics? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 9:13:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. I'll never look at a beer can the same ever again. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 9:46:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one...............................
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:02:19 AM EDT
[#19]
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I'll never look at a beer can the same ever again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite position on the selector. http://i.imgur.com/CsJHc8Y.jpg That weapon should be on safe. From that image, I can immediately tell that you are a safety violator, who has extremely fat wrists. I make the same challenge to people about my dick. I bet your watch will fit it. I'll never look at a beer can the same ever again. You remember. You so sweet. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:02:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:06:50 AM EDT
[#21]
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How do you eat an elephant? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? Step one, drive out All-American Gate. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:17:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Step one, drive out All-American Gate. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? Step one, drive out All-American Gate. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:40:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... Why not start with the fixable problems? Let's embrace common sense weapons handling procedures, and promote safety. Thank you. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 11:09:58 AM EDT
[#24]
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Step one, drive out All-American Gate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? Step one, drive out All-American Gate. This was not meant to be an adage about Bragg Blvd prostitutes. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 11:17:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This was not meant to be an adage about Bragg Blvd prostitutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? Step one, drive out All-American Gate. This was not meant to be an adage about Bragg Blvd prostitutes. my bad. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 11:46:11 AM EDT
[#26]
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my bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of all the world problems, you fixate on this one............................... How do you eat an elephant? Step one, drive out All-American Gate. This was not meant to be an adage about Bragg Blvd prostitutes. my bad. The answer is "one bite at a time", meant to encourage people who are intimidated by daunting tasks. Slaying fat chicks is similar, I suppose. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:09:24 PM EDT
[#27]
We had a special ND event at a civilian shooting school a while back. It's the only ND I can remember anyone experiencing.
We were shooting on several levels of a tower and shooters were moving regularly from level to level, working various exercises as they relocated. As a rule, we do not drop the hammer on a cleared weapon. It isn't a good idea. However, the range rule was to clear the weapon off the line by taking the final act of pressing the trigger on an empty chamber. One fellow, when clearing off an upper level of the tower, followed the organizational rules for clearing off the line, began to bag his rifle and as an afterthought decided to follow the range rule of pressing the trigger, because he wanted to follow the rules like a good boy. He partially withdrew his rifle from the bag, disengaged the safety and pressed the trigger. The rifle discharged into part of the tower. Nobody was hurt and damage to equipment was minimal, but pressing that trigger was a bad idea. Had he simply left that rifle on safe and bagged it, never pulling the trigger on the tower or when clearing/cleaning/training until ready to fire at a target, there would have been no drama whatsoever. But no, a stupid and unnecessary rule met with a high speed training environment to create an unnecessary hazard. I went to bat for the guy when he was called onto the carpet for the ND. I didn't defend his sloppiness in the rush to get off the line, but I did argue that the range rule he was following resulted in the ND, not anything he did out of stupidity. That was what saved his ass, administratively speaking. So, engage the fucking safety and don't press the goddamned trigger. Easy. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:25:20 PM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:31:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We had a special ND event at a civilian shooting school a while back. It's the only ND I can remember anyone experiencing. We were shooting on several levels of a tower and shooters were moving regularly from level to level, working various exercises as they relocated. As a rule, we do not drop the hammer on a cleared weapon. It isn't a good idea. However, the range rule was to clear the weapon off the line by taking the final act of pressing the trigger on an empty chamber. One fellow, when clearing off an upper level of the tower, followed the organizational rules for clearing off the line, began to bag his rifle and as an afterthought decided to follow the range rule of pressing the trigger, because he wanted to follow the rules like a good boy. He partially withdrew his rifle from the bag, disengaged the safety and pressed the trigger. The rifle discharged into part of the tower. Nobody was hurt and damage to equipment was minimal, but pressing that trigger was a bad idea. Had he simply left that rifle on safe and bagged it, never pulling the trigger on the tower or when clearing/cleaning/training until ready to fire at a target, there would have been no drama whatsoever. But no, a stupid and unnecessary rule met with a high speed training environment to create an unnecessary hazard. I went to bat for the guy when he was called onto the carpet for the ND. I didn't defend his sloppiness in the rush to get off the line, but I did argue that the range rule he was following resulted in the ND, not anything he did out of stupidity. That was what saved his ass, administratively speaking. So, engage the fucking safety and don't press the goddamned trigger. Easy. Good story. The entire practice is poor weapons handling. By definition, the person handling the weapon is pulling the trigger without the intent to fire a round. I'd like to see the dropping of the hammer or striker, as a clearing procedure, completely eliminated. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:39:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good story. The entire practice is poor weapons handling. By definition, the person handling the weapon is pulling the trigger without the intent to fire a round. I'd like to see the dropping of the hammer or striker, as a clearing procedure, completely eliminated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We had a special ND event at a civilian shooting school a while back. It's the only ND I can remember anyone experiencing. We were shooting on several levels of a tower and shooters were moving regularly from level to level, working various exercises as they relocated. As a rule, we do not drop the hammer on a cleared weapon. It isn't a good idea. However, the range rule was to clear the weapon off the line by taking the final act of pressing the trigger on an empty chamber. One fellow, when clearing off an upper level of the tower, followed the organizational rules for clearing off the line, began to bag his rifle and as an afterthought decided to follow the range rule of pressing the trigger, because he wanted to follow the rules like a good boy. He partially withdrew his rifle from the bag, disengaged the safety and pressed the trigger. The rifle discharged into part of the tower. Nobody was hurt and damage to equipment was minimal, but pressing that trigger was a bad idea. Had he simply left that rifle on safe and bagged it, never pulling the trigger on the tower or when clearing/cleaning/training until ready to fire at a target, there would have been no drama whatsoever. But no, a stupid and unnecessary rule met with a high speed training environment to create an unnecessary hazard. I went to bat for the guy when he was called onto the carpet for the ND. I didn't defend his sloppiness in the rush to get off the line, but I did argue that the range rule he was following resulted in the ND, not anything he did out of stupidity. That was what saved his ass, administratively speaking. So, engage the fucking safety and don't press the goddamned trigger. Easy. Good story. The entire practice is poor weapons handling. By definition, the person handling the weapon is pulling the trigger without the intent to fire a round. I'd like to see the dropping of the hammer or striker, as a clearing procedure, completely eliminated. That was ultimately the conclusion of the investigation. Don't drop the hammer. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:52:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was ultimately the conclusion of the investigation. Don't drop the hammer. The investigators obviously had good heads on their shoulders. They seem like clean smelling men, without aversion to science. I trust them. I have also investigated instances of negligent discharges, and other sloppy weapons handling procedures throughout my time on Arfcom, while conducting amateur science. I have also came to the same conclusion. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:16:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Every ND I have ever witnessed has been because someone pulled the trigger.
I am going to go ahead and call causation here. ETA. nope. Had a sailor ND a 240 before a convoy because he short stroked it after failing to follow proper loading procedures (loaded belt into weapon with bolt forward and went to charge it.) |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Hammer cocked? On safe.
Simple enough to understand, no? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:24:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every ND I have ever witnessed has been because someone pulled the trigger. I am going to go ahead and call causation here. ETA. nope. Had a sailor ND a 240 before a convoy because he short stroked it after failing to follow proper loading procedures (loaded belt into weapon with bolt forward and went to charge it.) Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:24:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The investigators obviously had good heads on their shoulders. They seem like clean smelling men, without aversion to science. I trust them. I have also investigated instances of negligent discharges, and other sloppy weapons handling procedures throughout my time on Arfcom, while conducting amateur science. I have also came to the same conclusion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That was ultimately the conclusion of the investigation. Don't drop the hammer. The investigators obviously had good heads on their shoulders. They seem like clean smelling men, without aversion to science. I trust them. I have also investigated instances of negligent discharges, and other sloppy weapons handling procedures throughout my time on Arfcom, while conducting amateur science. I have also came to the same conclusion. I wouldn't trust them too much. They were going to burn the fuck out of Mister_P and ruin his career until Instood onntheir desks and insisted that the school's policy, and not P's own negligence, created the incident. They did eventually accept the science and blamed the unnecessary inject to organizational policy. Mister_P got off with a counseling on the exercise of due diligence. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:30:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Every ND I have ever witnessed has been because someone pulled the trigger. I am going to go ahead and call causation here. ETA. nope. Had a sailor ND a 240 before a convoy because he short stroked it after failing to follow proper loading procedures (loaded belt into weapon with bolt forward and went to charge it.) Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. MK-19 is a nightmare in this regard. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:30:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hammer cocked? On safe. Simple enough to understand, no? Yes. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:33:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Safe!
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Every ND I have ever witnessed has been because someone pulled the trigger. I am going to go ahead and call causation here. ETA. nope. Had a sailor ND a 240 before a convoy because he short stroked it after failing to follow proper loading procedures (loaded belt into weapon with bolt forward and went to charge it.) Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. Yup - I had an ND with a SMG once (open bolt - Husqvarna). When loading/cocking it - pulled the bolt back, and it didn't quite engage - so the bolt flew forward, and fired one round - and then of course locked back (as a result of normal blowback operation). So the trigger was never touched. Of course, it could easily be argue that my procedure was inherently unsafe - since obviously the mag should be inserted AFTER the bolt is cocked back, not before. So it's sort of like manually lowering the hammer on a 1911  . Our SMGs were so old and rattlely, that we tended to carry them with the bolt shut, and mag inserted, as opposed to bolt locked back - also in part because there was no safety.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 2:01:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup - I had an ND with a SMG once (open bolt - Husqvarna). When loading/cocking it - pulled the bolt back, and it didn't quite engage - so the bolt flew forward, and fired one round - and then of course locked back (as a result of normal blowback operation). So the trigger was never touched. Of course, it could easily be argue that my procedure was inherently unsafe - since obviously the mag should be inserted AFTER the bolt is cocked back, not before. So it's sort of like manually lowering the hammer on a 1911 . Our SMGs were so old and rattlely, that we tended to carry them with the bolt shut, and mag inserted, as opposed to bolt locked back - also in part because there was no safety.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Every ND I have ever witnessed has been because someone pulled the trigger. I am going to go ahead and call causation here. ETA. nope. Had a sailor ND a 240 before a convoy because he short stroked it after failing to follow proper loading procedures (loaded belt into weapon with bolt forward and went to charge it.) Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. I think I fired a whopping 20 rounds of .50 during my time in. I wasn't an 0331, so they gave me the bare minimum of training on the gun. I never ND'ed but I can see someone who is dog-ass tired doing something stupid on an unfamiliar weapons platform. The M16/M4 is completely different in my opinion. No need to touch the trigger. Yup - I had an ND with a SMG once (open bolt - Husqvarna). When loading/cocking it - pulled the bolt back, and it didn't quite engage - so the bolt flew forward, and fired one round - and then of course locked back (as a result of normal blowback operation). So the trigger was never touched. Of course, it could easily be argue that my procedure was inherently unsafe - since obviously the mag should be inserted AFTER the bolt is cocked back, not before. So it's sort of like manually lowering the hammer on a 1911 . Our SMGs were so old and rattlely, that we tended to carry them with the bolt shut, and mag inserted, as opposed to bolt locked back - also in part because there was no safety.Even if you had better loading procedures, the same basic problem could happen during immediate action drills. It's clearly not as dangerous because you are already shooting, but it's still an ND. I have a story about an open bolt gun that makes my rear pucker up a years later. We were doing some sort of live-fire hard hit raid training at 29 palms. Our Helo set us down a good mile away from where we were supposed to be, so as we all went condition one, the Lt. let us know we were running to the objective... 
The SAW gunner in my team ignored the command to go Con 1, and I honestly think I am alive right now because of it. As we got up and ran through the low ground, the pin on his entire trigger assembly walked out and the grip dropped to the ground. He was right behind me in the movement. Had that been a Con 1 gun, it would have hosed me with 200 rounds of 5.56. You'd like to think you don't flag people when you run, but you do. It's a dangerous part of the job. We had to get on-line and police the desert like it was space balls. We found the trigger assembly and the Marine was not punished because the SAW was broken. Anyway, CBS and all that. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:08:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MK-19 is a nightmare in this regard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: MK-19 is a nightmare in this regard. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:10:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. The M2 is closed bolt, if people are loading it then popping rounds in the dirt they are fucking up. (and prob trying to load it like a Mk-19) |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:14:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Here's to 48 more pages of safety science!!!! Happy 4th gentlemen
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:19:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The easiest way to ND a M2 is being used to a Mk-19 loading procedure and getting placed on an M2. The M2 is closed bolt, if people are loading it then popping rounds in the dirt they are fucking up. (and prob trying to load it like a Mk-19) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah, medium and heavy machine guns are something different. I saw a couple NDs because people who were not good with the M2. Their story was that they would miscount how many times they racked a round and pop one off into the berm before stepping off. The M2 is closed bolt, if people are loading it then popping rounds in the dirt they are fucking up. (and prob trying to load it like a Mk-19) I think it had something to do with forgetting that there was already a half load on the gun. I didn't do it so I don't know. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:19:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The answer is "one bite at a time", meant to encourage people who are intimidated by daunting tasks. Slaying fat chicks is similar, I suppose. Brb, 10th Mtn is here so I'll go check their tacsop. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:22:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it had something to do with forgetting that there was already a half load on the gun. I didn't do it so I don't know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted:snip I think it had something to do with forgetting that there was already a half load on the gun. I didn't do it so I don't know. Had a dude ND down the block from where we were at at the Power plant, a 50 round going about a foot over head is pretty freaking intimidating. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:27:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Mk-19 is the 1911 of the belt fed world, it would only be used by people trained on it and know how it works fundamentally. Otherwise it's not going to go well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: MK-19 is a nightmare in this regard. I was doing battlefield circulation and went out to one of my teams. We finished the mission (i tried to do a combat patrol to their most dangerous area (mostly because I like getting into firefights  )) and I grabbed the Mk19, detailed stripped it, cleaned and reassembled it.
This got me major cool points, because only one guy on the team apparently knew how to do that. So I chewed on their OIC while privately enjoying my victory. THis was one of my field grade tricks. I could do the same with every weapon on our teams. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:27:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yarp. Had a dude ND down the block from where we were at at the Power plant, a 50 round going about a foot over head is pretty freaking intimidating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:snip
I think it had something to do with forgetting that there was already a half load on the gun. I didn't do it so I don't know. Had a dude ND down the block from where we were at at the Power plant, a 50 round going about a foot over head is pretty freaking intimidating. 
Closest I ever came was in a post IED bloom flower of death from an army convoy. I understand the urge to shoot at stuff though. Especially when you just got hit. We used a lot of pop up flares at that OP... 
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:28:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yarp. Had a dude ND down the block from where we were at at the Power plant, a 50 round going about a foot over head is pretty freaking intimidating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:snip
I think it had something to do with forgetting that there was already a half load on the gun. I didn't do it so I don't know. Had a dude ND down the block from where we were at at the Power plant, a 50 round going about a foot over head is pretty freaking intimidating. 
FUCK that! Did you track the dude down?
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:31:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FUCK that! Did you track the dude down? -eta with a crowd of NCO's surrounding him screaming For those wondering; typical story, guy came off a Mk-19 truck and was used to the Mk-19 where normal loading means racking the CH, then pushing the trigger which slams the bolt on the round, then pulling the CH again to strip in and put it on the firing position of the bolt, which locks to the rear (open bolt). Well, when you load an M2 it's closed bolt, and doesn't lock to the rear when you rack it. Guess he went to go load it, and "half loaded" (condition 2) so when he racked the CH back, and net go, he muscle memory pushed the trigger on a hot chamber. |
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