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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:11:46 PM EDT
Please explain why the Over-Under Shotgun is considered superior to the Semi-Auto for Clays?
I am relatively new to Skeet and Sporting clays and I wonder why so many Clay Shooters "look down" on the semi auto shotguns? Krieghoff K80: 
Remington 1100 Skeet: 
Isn't the Semi-Auto shotgun just as capable in the hands of a pro shooter as the over-under would be? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:12:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:13:23 PM EDT
[#2]
If you have to ask the difference between a K80 and an 1100...
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:14:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Tagscribe, I too never got this as well. Of course at the ripe age of 16 I remember out shooting some old guys with 5k O/U's with my 870 express. They weren't happy. Clays is a ton of fun, but they can be an uppity bunch.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:14:20 PM EDT
[#4]
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not... |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:15:35 PM EDT
[#5]
Choice of chokes, feel, looks. Also a much larger choice of high end guns.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:17:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Well first off most clay sports only need 2 shots at a time, so a semi auto has no point.
Second, you don't have the action movement throwing your second shot off. Third you have two different barrels allowing two different chokes. So your 2nd shot can me better tuned to hit birds a bit further away. Fourth, they look cool popping the shells out. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:18:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not...  |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:18:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not... 
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:19:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have to ask the difference between a K80 and an 1100... I provided those as examples, I am not trying to compare a $1000 shotgun to a $20,000 shotgun. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:20:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Explain this please. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:20:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well first off most clay sports only need 2 shots at a time, so a semi auto has no point. Second, you don't have the action movement throwing your second shot off. Third you have two different barrels allowing two different chokes. So your 2nd shot can me better tuned to hit birds a bit further away. Fourth, they look cool popping the shells out. Correct. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:23:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well first off most clay sports only need 2 shots at a time, so a semi auto has no point. Second, you don't have the action movement throwing your second shot off. Third you have two different barrels allowing two different chokes. So your 2nd shot can me better tuned to hit birds a bit further away. Fourth, they look cool popping the shells out. That and not having to bend down and pick up or chase down hulls. Sporting clays shoots you often really really need two different chokes I've got tournaments where one stage you need one full and one skeet. Dick of a move for the setup of the tournament, but it was sanctioned match |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:23:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I once took a Crossman 760 BB gun to the trap range when I was 5 and beating the pants off of all the old timers!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not...
Rank amateur. When I was three I took a wrist rocket to the skeet club and beat them so bad they gave me the club. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:24:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain this please. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Explain this please. You don't have to wait for the action to cycle. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:24:12 PM EDT
[#15]
But if you were good enough to pull it off, it sure would be fun to show up with a Saiga-12.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:24:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain this please. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Explain this please. Second shot is instantly ready to go, no need for the action to cycle, and the gun doesn't move as much for the follow up shot with an over under. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:25:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rank amateur. When I was three I took a wrist rocket to the skeet club and beat them so bad they gave me the club. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not...
Rank amateur. When I was three I took a wrist rocket to the skeet club and beat them so bad they gave me the club. I took out my dick and pissed the clays out of the air. All the clay shooters were so mad they shot me in the ass over 50 times, but it was #7 1/2 birdshot so I didn't even feel it. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:27:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot All of this. If you are serious about shooting clays, an O/U is the way to go. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:27:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But if you were good enough to pull it off, it sure would be fun to show up with a Saiga-12. Or a 12 gauge dressed up like an RPG 
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:27:42 PM EDT
[#20]
over unders dont jam
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:27:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tagscribe, I too never got this as well. Of course at the ripe age of 16 I remember out shooting some old guys with 5k O/U's with my 870 express. They weren't happy. Clays is a ton of fun, but they can be an uppity bunch. When you fire the auto, the bolt has to retract three inches to eject the shell, then return three inches to fire the second one. The trigger bar in a double has to move a bit less than a quarter of an inch between the two sears. Much, much faster second shot. This is not the end of the world. The best skeet shooter at Thunder Mountain (clays range in New Jersey) was a geezer with a press checkered 870. There is nothing "wrong" with an auto. Some people shoot them brilliantly. Balance and speed still go to the O/U. OP, start with the 1100. If you get into it, you'll learn how you want the gun to feel. Clays is very instinctive. If you find a nice group, they may eventually let you play with their Berettas and Brownings and such. Then if you decide to buy an over/under, you'll have an idea what works for you. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:28:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But if you were good enough to pull it off, it sure would be fun to show up with a Saiga-12. I do, but I'm shooting with a bunch of rednecks in the middle of fucking nowhere. They still  at me
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:31:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I provided those as examples, I am not trying to compare a $1000 shotgun to a $20,000 shotgun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you have to ask the difference between a K80 and an 1100... I provided those as examples, I am not trying to compare a $1000 shotgun to a $20,000 shotgun. Its the balance, the weight isn't forward with a tube full of shells (but with skeet its only two anyways), different chokes, and faster lock times. I faced a similar choice years ago. I went with a Browning semi as for the same money ($1000), I thought I could get a higher quality semi than o/u. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:35:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Plus, O/U easy to collect empties and is much safer as you leave it open until ready to shoot.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:37:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Also o/u are a little more friendly for the reloader. Its a lot easier to keep your hulls rounded up and not have to wander around the range picking up your hulls.
O/u tend to be better balanced &, swing better. Skeet involves 4 gauges. Tubes o/u's work well for this. Hauling around 3 or 4 autoloaders that have 4 different weights, different sight pictures, and swing totally different would be a pain. Its not really necessary or useful for recreational shooting, but people tend to use what people shooting competition use. Say what you want, but trap guys don't like to have your hulls bouncing off of them or their $12,000 Perazzi. For all those that like to beat up on the old guys and their fancy guns, I suggest you sign up for the next registered event in your area. Be sure to sign up for all the options and the Calcutta. You'll be rich. Really. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:48:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took out my dick and pissed the clays out of the air. All the clay shooters were so mad they shot me in the ass over 50 times, but it was #7 1/2 birdshot so I didn't even feel it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not...
Rank amateur. When I was three I took a wrist rocket to the skeet club and beat them so bad they gave me the club. I took out my dick and pissed the clays out of the air. All the clay shooters were so mad they shot me in the ass over 50 times, but it was #7 1/2 birdshot so I didn't even feel it. A real competitor would have dropped trou and Hershey-squirted the pellets right back at the shooters. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:50:10 PM EDT
[#27]
You can shoot Krieghoff K-80's upside down and still bust clays with them:
That is my sporting clays instructor, by the way...about 2 or 3 years ago. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:50:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not... You two planed this right? I mean, what are the odds...? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:51:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well first off most clay sports only need 2 shots at a time, so a semi auto has no point. Second, you don't have the action movement throwing your second shot off. Third you have two different barrels allowing two different chokes. So your 2nd shot can me better tuned to hit birds a bit further away. Fourth, they look cool popping the shells out. Correct. Yep. ETA: There is nothing wrong with an auto - or even a pump, for that matter. The only real advantage that an O/U offers is the two chokes, which can be significant on some clays courses (and not so much on others). I just recently bought an O/U again; the last time I owned one was eight years ago. I got along fine with my Benelli in all of that time. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:53:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Plus, O/U easy to collect empties and is much safer as you leave it open until ready to shoot. Consider that when the Over-Under shotgun is on the rack, the O/U is CLOSED and therefore nobody truly knows the safety state of the weapon....the semi-auto is put on the rack with the bolt in the OPEN position, which clearly demonstrates (visibly) the shotgun is SAFE and unloaded....just saying. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:55:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they look cool popping the shells out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
they look cool popping the shells out. It is really fun popping the guy crowding you. 
Quoted:
over unders dont jam Well, sometimes I pick up a twig and scrape out where the rim sits in boredom while waiting for my turn. Never hit a dove on the third shot with the 1100 and my % hits has goon way up after a couple of sporting clay outings with the O/U. And the O/U is shorter than autos too. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:56:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can shoot Krieghoff K-80's upside down and still bust clays with them: http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/01DF7AD6-7F17-496E-99B3-2C9682030B13-436-0000018BAF4D7399.jpg That is my sporting clays instructor, by the way...about 2 or 3 years ago. You can do the same thing with a semi auto. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:56:25 PM EDT
[#33]
You don't have to hunt down your empty hulls . . . seriously, that's a big thing.
Otherwise . . . • big heavy guns are just the ticket for extended range sessions. The weight of the guns absorbs recoil • the weight forward nature of an over/under is conducive to a smooth swing • break open actions are easy to show safe . . . when walking from station to station or waiting your turn, your action needs to be open. A break barrel slung over the forearm works great for this and is more casual/less tiring that having to walk around with a fixed receiver gun pointed in the air • simpler/less distracting operation. No need to chuck a slide and no whackity-whack of the semi-auto to take your attention from the second bird of a pair. • Two chokes is useful for sporting clays, where you sometimes see wildly different presentations as a pair • fashion . . . over/unders are just what you do when you're a serious shooter • the nicest guns are doubles. Spend as much time shooting shotguns as clays shooters do and you're just naturally drawn to nicer guns. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:57:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Skip to 1:38 if your attention span is low. I'd suggest watching the whole thing though.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:58:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Damn, double tap
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:03:45 PM EDT
[#36]
I shoot competitive sporting clays, 5 stand and FITASC.
When I first got serious about it, I shot a Beretta EELL O/U. I shot it fairly well, and liked the reliability and the choice of two chokes if needed for a given presentation. After a 200-300 shot day, I noticed that I was starting to drop targets toward the end that I should be hitting. Despite the gun being fitted to me, I was unconsciously lifting my head in anticipation of recoil. I ended up trying a Beretta semi auto, and once I got it fitted and the stock and foreend weights where I wanted, I have never looked back. The only drawback is shooting everything with a single choke, but I just choke for the long shot and focus harder on the close one. As far as an O/U shooting faster between trigger pulls, I have never seen that in person. I understand the theory, but have not witnessed the application in over 15 years of competition. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:04:44 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Different chokes bra! |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:05:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
over unders dont jam You can only use that argument when comparing a O/U with a MECHANICAL trigger vs. a INERTIA trigger, because a dead primer will cause you to manually cycle the O/U (inertia) shotgun just as you would have to with a similar semi-auto malfunction. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:31 PM EDT
[#39]
In addition to the good points already made above, there are another two.
Reliability- some loads are hot, some are not, but an o/u doesn't care and will shoot both. A light first load can not cycle the gun and you only get one bang. This gets much much worse when you go down to 28ga and 410, there's a reason you don't see too many semi 410's. In a competition they will only let this happen , maybe three times, then DQ, your done. Went to collegiate nationals and had this happen. Bang click, bang click, bang click. Followed quickly by me sprinting a mile to get my buddies back up o/u. this was a nice Benelli I had broken in, that I still swear are the most reliable semis on the market. My o/u at the time was setup only for trap and sporting clays, so i had to use another for the skeet games. And if it happens in the field, it means you have missed the bird, same if the first shell is a complete dud, a mechanical trigger lets you shoot the second shell immediately. Second, Long term reliability. Its one thing to say I have 20,000 rounds through my (insert AR, 1911, glock, whatever), but many of your trap guys dont measuer their average score out of 25, or a hundred. many measure it as 999 out of a thousand, or higher. These guys will easily clear a few hundred thousand shells through one gun in a few years. And many are still in fabulous shape with no replaced parts in that time frame. Semi's just don't hold up the same to that kind of extended use without changing a bunch of parts. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:39 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Please explain why the Over-Under Shotgun is considered superior to the Semi-Auto for Clays? I am relatively new to Skeet and Sporting clays and I wonder why so many Clay Shooters "look down" on the semi auto shotguns? Krieghoff K80: http://www.krieghoff.co.uk/sei/s/2855/1893.jpg Remington 1100 Skeet: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/95241.jpg Isn't the Semi-Auto shotgun just as capable in the hands of a pro shooter as the over-under would be? It's not and to argue there is an advantage is silly. Over and unders are handy for keeping empties handy so there's no need to pick them up afterwards. A single barrel gun set up for targets typically has a longer sighting plane, although I don't know that I would place that advantage too high on the list, and gun that fits is best no matter the barrel length. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I ended up trying a Beretta semi auto, and once I got it fitted and the stock and foreend weights where I wanted, I have never looked back. The only drawback is shooting everything with a single choke, but I just choke for the long shot and focus harder on the close one. As far as an O/U shooting faster between trigger pulls, I have never seen that in person. I understand the theory, but have not witnessed the application in over 15 years of competition. Is it the extrema 2 I linked a video to above? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:08:04 PM EDT
[#42]
If you ever held a quality OU and put it through its paces you would have no need to ask anybody why.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:09:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can do the same thing with a semi auto. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You can shoot Krieghoff K-80's upside down and still bust clays with them: http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/01DF7AD6-7F17-496E-99B3-2C9682030B13-436-0000018BAF4D7399.jpg That is my sporting clays instructor, by the way...about 2 or 3 years ago. You can do the same thing with a semi auto. I was kinda being sarcastic. Sorry, I should have added a smiley: 
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:10:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot competitive sporting clays, 5 stand and FITASC. When I first got serious about it, I shot a Beretta EELL O/U. I shot it fairly well, and liked the reliability and the choice of two chokes if needed for a given presentation. After a 200-300 shot day, I noticed that I was starting to drop targets toward the end that I should be hitting. Despite the gun being fitted to me, I was unconsciously lifting my head in anticipation of recoil. I ended up trying a Beretta semi auto, and once I got it fitted and the stock and foreend weights where I wanted, I have never looked back. The only drawback is shooting everything with a single choke, but I just choke for the long shot and focus harder on the close one. As far as an O/U shooting faster between trigger pulls, I have never seen that in person. I understand the theory, but have not witnessed the application in over 15 years of competition.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:11:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it the extrema 2 I linked a video to above? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I ended up trying a Beretta semi auto, and once I got it fitted and the stock and foreend weights where I wanted, I have never looked back. The only drawback is shooting everything with a single choke, but I just choke for the long shot and focus harder on the close one. As far as an O/U shooting faster between trigger pulls, I have never seen that in person. I understand the theory, but have not witnessed the application in over 15 years of competition. Is it the extrema 2 I linked a video to above? I shoot a 391 Teknys Gold. Very similar, but slated towards competitive clay shooting. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:13:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Even if the balance and second shot were equal, there's no good way to have two different chokes between the first and second shot other than having two barrels. I do have a fantasy where i find/buy/build/order a SxS skeet gun with removable chokes, made to look like Grandpa Bodine's old gun, just to mess with people. Beverly Hillbilly tech FTW.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:17:48 PM EDT
[#47]
I'm the last person in the world you would ever get confused with a competitive shotgunner, but i used to ask this question myself. I answered it for myself when my boss took all the guys on his office staff out on a quail hunting trip. The only shotguns I have are 12 ga, and they have a rule that you have to shoot with .410s, 28s, or 20s. They have some nice Beretta Silver Pigeon 28s to use as loaners, so I spent a day toting one of them around, and dropping birds with it. No comparison. In my opinion, for that purpose, a moderately nice over/under beats the pants off a moderately nice pump or autoloader any day. In the first place, we never would have gotten more than two shots at a flushing covey if we could have. In the second place, it's a lot easier to tell that the guy twenty yards to your right has his gun in a safe condition when it's broke open. A lot harder to tell if the gun that may be pointed at you has the bolt locked back or not. Third, the triggers were just sweet. Glass rod sweet. Follow-up shots were a breeze.
In the hands of a really experienced shooter, there probably isn't a whole lot of difference. I've seen film clips of Tom Knapp doing some really crazy stuff with his Benelli. Then again, I'm no Tom Knapp... |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:21:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain this please. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Better balance, two different chokes, much faster second shot Explain this please. Faster second shot? C'mon, that's not a factor in the real world.. we are talking milliseconds for a semi-auto to reset, look at all the countless Semi-auto Exhibition shooters that throw a handful of clays in the air and hit them before they reach the ground and tell me that the semi-auto cycle time is a factor... |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:22:29 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I took out my dick and pissed the clays out of the air. All the clay shooters were so mad they shot me in the ass over 50 times, but it was #7 1/2 birdshot so I didn't even feel it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In before the multiple posts from people about how they don't see the need for a fanciful shotgun because they took their old 870 po-leece shotgun out to the skeet range and busted more clays than the old fogeys did and there was much grumbling and chin wagging and dark looks from the FUDDs... Edit: Apparently not...
Rank amateur. When I was three I took a wrist rocket to the skeet club and beat them so bad they gave me the club. I took out my dick and pissed the clays out of the air. All the clay shooters were so mad they shot me in the ass over 50 times, but it was #7 1/2 birdshot so I didn't even feel it. I stared them out of the air and they accused me of being a witch. Then they hired a real witch to turn me into a newt. Then they sold me to a pet shop. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:23:22 PM EDT
[#50]
fpni
+ They look moar bitchen ++ Joe Biden |
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