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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:52:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And your logic is the same that thinks offering booze to a recovering alcoholic is OK. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a few employees that are good honest people, but not so bright financially. Anyway I get a wage garnishment for one of them who got a loan for $1000 and some change. It was a 16 month payment plan that netted the lender $750 profit. They then stupidly defaulted and now I have to take it out piece by piece. Now I am not pissed about the lender wanting to be made whole with some profit as that is why they are in business. However it's the interest rate of 85.17% that pisses me off! I would guess you could get a better loan fro the mob and better incentive to pay it back on time! My employee was a total moron to sign on the dotted line at that interest rate so he is the only one at fault. These places rip off the no so bright in the world and get away with it. Total scum! Get away with it? Get away with offering something for sale that no one is obligated in any way whatsoever to buy? On terms that are explicitly laid out ahead of time? Sorry, they're not scum. There's nothing even slightly unethical about what they do. This is the same logic that blames McDonalds for fat kids. And your logic is the same that thinks offering booze to a recovering alcoholic is OK. Booze is offered to recovering alcoholics in the exact same manner that these loans are offered to people who can't handle personal finances. What exactly was your point with that analogy? That Budweiser is predatory scum for putting beer commercials on TV? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:56:24 PM EDT
[#2]
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Gotta be a fake.  Quote HistoryIt's not. That stuff is 100% legit. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:57:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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All you smart guys with no fucks to give need to understand that you could not have your superior IQ without someone else having an inferior one. There are genuinely feeble minded people who cannot think their way out of a paper sack - OK, maybe they can, but nevertheless, there are people out there of low intellect who are susceptible to the manipulations of shysters. Christians should care. Atheists, if their claims are true, should care too. +1 The ability of the average American to make a sound financial decision involving a % symbol is amazingly lacking. Some people are weak minded through no fault of their own, it is our duty to help them understand. When I was a big box store manager I taught everyone financial classes with an emphasis on budgeting. A learn from my mistakes type of thing. It amazes me what people don't know. If you have that knowledge, you bear the responsibility of sharing it with the least amongst us. Someone said I was crazy for reviewing a car deal for one of my clerical employees. It was a damn shame a 70 year old woman's family knew she was walking in to a car dealership and nobody went with her. You bet they tried to rip her off. Damn shame. 
Since we are on an Alpha/Beta kick..... A Beta gives no fucks. An Alpha protects his people and educates his people. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:57:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Booze is offered to recovering alcoholics in the exact same manner that these loans are offered to people who can't handle personal finances. What exactly was your point with that analogy? That Budweiser is predatory scum for putting beer commercials on TV? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a few employees that are good honest people, but not so bright financially. Anyway I get a wage garnishment for one of them who got a loan for $1000 and some change. It was a 16 month payment plan that netted the lender $750 profit. They then stupidly defaulted and now I have to take it out piece by piece. Now I am not pissed about the lender wanting to be made whole with some profit as that is why they are in business. However it's the interest rate of 85.17% that pisses me off! I would guess you could get a better loan fro the mob and better incentive to pay it back on time! My employee was a total moron to sign on the dotted line at that interest rate so he is the only one at fault. These places rip off the no so bright in the world and get away with it. Total scum! Get away with it? Get away with offering something for sale that no one is obligated in any way whatsoever to buy? On terms that are explicitly laid out ahead of time? Sorry, they're not scum. There's nothing even slightly unethical about what they do. This is the same logic that blames McDonalds for fat kids. And your logic is the same that thinks offering booze to a recovering alcoholic is OK. Booze is offered to recovering alcoholics in the exact same manner that these loans are offered to people who can't handle personal finances. What exactly was your point with that analogy? That Budweiser is predatory scum for putting beer commercials on TV? But his feelz, do you even feelz bro? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 9:58:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I have a few employees that are good honest people, but not so bright financially. Anyway I get a wage garnishment for one of them who got a loan for $1000 and some change. It was a 16 month payment plan that netted the lender $750 profit. They then stupidly defaulted and now I have to take it out piece by piece. Now I am not pissed about the lender wanting to be made whole with some profit as that is why they are in business. However it's the interest rate of 85.17% that pisses me off! I would guess you could get a better loan fro the mob and better incentive to pay it back on time! My employee was a total moron to sign on the dotted line at that interest rate so he is also at fault. These places rip off the no so bright in the world and get away with it. Total scum! the reason the interest rate is 85% is due to the fact that so many of the loans default and the lender is beat. if it where lower say 75% the lender would go out of business. maybe you can open your own business and loan these people money at 5% |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:04:19 PM EDT
[#6]
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+1 The ability of the average American to make a sound financial decision involving a % symbol is amazingly lacking. Some people are weak minded through no fault of their own, it is our duty to help them understand. When I was a big box store manager I taught everyone financial classes with an emphasis on budgeting. A learn from my mistakes type of thing. It amazes me what people don't know. If you have that knowledge, you bear the responsibility of sharing it with the least amongst us. Someone said I was crazy for reviewing a car deal for one of my clerical employees. It was a damn shame a 70 year old woman's family knew she was walking in to a car dealership and nobody went with her. You bet they tried to rip her off. Damn shame.
Since we are on an Alpha/Beta kick..... A Beta gives no fucks. An Alpha protects his people and educates his people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All you smart guys with no fucks to give need to understand that you could not have your superior IQ without someone else having an inferior one. There are genuinely feeble minded people who cannot think their way out of a paper sack - OK, maybe they can, but nevertheless, there are people out there of low intellect who are susceptible to the manipulations of shysters. Christians should care. Atheists, if their claims are true, should care too. +1 The ability of the average American to make a sound financial decision involving a % symbol is amazingly lacking. Some people are weak minded through no fault of their own, it is our duty to help them understand. When I was a big box store manager I taught everyone financial classes with an emphasis on budgeting. A learn from my mistakes type of thing. It amazes me what people don't know. If you have that knowledge, you bear the responsibility of sharing it with the least amongst us. Someone said I was crazy for reviewing a car deal for one of my clerical employees. It was a damn shame a 70 year old woman's family knew she was walking in to a car dealership and nobody went with her. You bet they tried to rip her off. Damn shame.
Since we are on an Alpha/Beta kick..... A Beta gives no fucks. An Alpha protects his people and educates his people. You guys are pretty much paraphrasing early 20th century Progressivism. "Tis our christian duty to protect these poor, benighted morons from their own foolish decisions!" |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:06:34 PM EDT
[#7]
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I have a few employees that are good honest people, but not so bright financially. Anyway I get a wage garnishment for one of them who got a loan for $1000 and some change. It was a 16 month payment plan that netted the lender $750 profit. They then stupidly defaulted and now I have to take it out piece by piece. Now I am not pissed about the lender wanting to be made whole with some profit as that is why they are in business. However it's the interest rate of 85.17% that pisses me off! I would guess you could get a better loan fro the mob and better incentive to pay it back on time! My employee was a total moron to sign on the dotted line at that interest rate so he is also at fault. These places rip off the no so bright in the world and get away with it. Total scum! THIS is the reason for THIS I wouldn't risk lending money to your idiot employee for any less either. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:08:21 PM EDT
[#8]
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Being stupid is supposed to hurt. No one forced them to take the loan. This |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:08:48 PM EDT
[#9]
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You know what happens to an ecosystem when all the predators are gone? I hate to quote myself, but why is being a "predator" so terrible? Nobody's bitching at the hawk eating all the mice. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:16:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being stupid is supposed to hurt. No one forced them to take the loan. The bigger problem is people who don't take responsibility for their actions. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:17:17 PM EDT
[#11]
I pretty much don't care what happens to stupid people. Most of them will vote Democrapic anyways
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:19:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 The ability of the average American to make a sound financial decision involving a % symbol is amazingly lacking. Some people are weak minded through no fault of their own, it is our duty to help them understand. When I was a big box store manager I taught everyone financial classes with an emphasis on budgeting. A learn from my mistakes type of thing. It amazes me what people don't know. If you have that knowledge, you bear the responsibility of sharing it with the least amongst us. Someone said I was crazy for reviewing a car deal for one of my clerical employees. It was a damn shame a 70 year old woman's family knew she was walking in to a car dealership and nobody went with her. You bet they tried to rip her off. Damn shame.
Since we are on an Alpha/Beta kick..... A Beta gives no fucks. An Alpha protects his people and educates his people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All you smart guys with no fucks to give need to understand that you could not have your superior IQ without someone else having an inferior one. There are genuinely feeble minded people who cannot think their way out of a paper sack - OK, maybe they can, but nevertheless, there are people out there of low intellect who are susceptible to the manipulations of shysters. Christians should care. Atheists, if their claims are true, should care too. +1 The ability of the average American to make a sound financial decision involving a % symbol is amazingly lacking. Some people are weak minded through no fault of their own, it is our duty to help them understand. When I was a big box store manager I taught everyone financial classes with an emphasis on budgeting. A learn from my mistakes type of thing. It amazes me what people don't know. If you have that knowledge, you bear the responsibility of sharing it with the least amongst us. Someone said I was crazy for reviewing a car deal for one of my clerical employees. It was a damn shame a 70 year old woman's family knew she was walking in to a car dealership and nobody went with her. You bet they tried to rip her off. Damn shame.
Since we are on an Alpha/Beta kick..... A Beta gives no fucks. An Alpha protects his people and educates his people. There's a lot of Beta people on GD. A lot whom I wouldn't want on my side, let alone my fox hole. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:25:36 PM EDT
[#13]
My disgust for banksters of all types grows every day.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend, And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry. This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man Proverbs 22:7 The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:28:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Pure evil, your employee needed the financing to buy those loud car speakers to feed his family.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:29:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Being stupid is supposed to hurt. No one forced them to take the loan. This, in order for me to lend you money it is going to benefit me and you don't get to decide how much. There is no such thing as predatory lending. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:31:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Payday loans can carry an interest rate of from 392% to 521%.
Nobody is forced to take that money though. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:32:29 PM EDT
[#17]
You know, maybe the "gun to the head" analogies are perfect.
If it's not morally unacceptable to trick the less intelligent and less informed into giving up their money, then perhaps it's not unethical to point a gun at the heads of those too ignorant or unwilling to defend themselves from you. I see no difference. The point is not that the poor aren't good prey, but "predatory" perfectly describes someone who preys on the weak. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:38:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a lot more to predatory lending than high interest rates. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: "Predatory lenders"  Nobody's forcing your crew to borrow money at exorbitant interest rates. This. There's a lot more to predatory lending than high interest rates.  |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:39:04 PM EDT
[#19]
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Nope. 100% legit ad. Takin' the white man to the rez. Like a casino, except you know what you're losing up front. Quote HistoryQuoted:
When they air the ad on TV they tell you "sure the money is expensive but it's far less expensive than a payday loan" and they aren't lying. People who fuck up their normal road to credit end up needing to pay through the nose to continue borrowing more. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 10:41:41 PM EDT
[#20]
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You know, maybe the "gun to the head" analogies are perfect. If it's not morally unacceptable to trick the less intelligent and less informed into giving up their money, then perhaps it's not unethical to point a gun at the heads of those too ignorant or unwilling to defend themselves from you. I see no difference. The point is not that the poor aren't good prey, but "predatory" perfectly describes someone who preys on the weak. Except they aren't tricking anyone. The terms are given in advance. The interest rates are high and well-known. I am flabbergasted that you would call high interest lending equivalent to armed robbery. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:02:06 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, don't forget, selling heroin to high school kids is also a completely legitimate and moral business because the moral value of any transaction lies entirely on the customer, and the vendor plays no part in the morality of the interaction. Those kids should have known that shooting up heroin is a bad decision, and the results are in no way something the vendor should lose sleep over, as long as he made a tidy profit and has a STEM degree. Once again, I think all this shit should be legal, I can just understand the definition of "predatory." Predatory does not mean "should be illegal." But if you can't see that some business models are predatory or exploitive, I honestly think that the problem is one of vocabulary, you probably just don't know what the words mean. You just know you've heard those words used by Democrats and you're mad. Mad! Yup. Or finding a girl who ran away from home to escape her molester step-dad and pimping her out. But apparently if you don't turn off all ethics and morality when it comes to making money you're a communist. Also, interesting how many people are conflating "ignorant" with "stupid" here. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:04:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. 100% legit ad. Takin' the white man to the rez. Like a casino, except you know what you're losing up front. Quote HistoryQuoted: I read small print on ads like that like its a hobby About fell out of chair the first time in I saw it As I have said before my folks had a pawn shop through my HS years hanging out/working at that place for a few years taught me some extremely valuable life lessons some people's only purpose is to serve as "what not to do" example for others |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:14 PM EDT
[#23]
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Yup. Or finding a girl who ran away from home to escape her molester step-dad and pimping her out. But apparently if you don't turn off all ethics and morality when it comes to making money you're a communist. Also, interesting how many people are conflating "ignorant" with "stupid" here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, don't forget, selling heroin to high school kids is also a completely legitimate and moral business because the moral value of any transaction lies entirely on the customer, and the vendor plays no part in the morality of the interaction. Those kids should have known that shooting up heroin is a bad decision, and the results are in no way something the vendor should lose sleep over, as long as he made a tidy profit and has a STEM degree. Once again, I think all this shit should be legal, I can just understand the definition of "predatory." Predatory does not mean "should be illegal." But if you can't see that some business models are predatory or exploitive, I honestly think that the problem is one of vocabulary, you probably just don't know what the words mean. You just know you've heard those words used by Democrats and you're mad. Mad! Yup. Or finding a girl who ran away from home to escape her molester step-dad and pimping her out. But apparently if you don't turn off all ethics and morality when it comes to making money you're a communist. Also, interesting how many people are conflating "ignorant" with "stupid" here. I find it interesting that you guys claim you aren't in favor of laws against this "predatory" lending, but the two analogous examples you provided are of unlawful behavior (selling drugs to children and human trafficking) |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:06:22 PM EDT
[#24]
You know, elderly people who are starting to succumb to senile dementia and Alzheimer's will buy utterly useless financial products if you tell them that it will help protect their grandchildren. You can take their life savings, and maybe even their house! If they're too fucking stupid to do their due diligence then those bitches deserve what they get. Disagree? You're obviously just a beta liberal.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:09:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find it interesting that you guys claim you aren't in favor of laws against this "predatory" lending, but the two analogous examples you provided are of unlawful behavior (selling drugs to children and human trafficking) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Also, don't forget, selling heroin to high school kids is also a completely legitimate and moral business because the moral value of any transaction lies entirely on the customer, and the vendor plays no part in the morality of the interaction. Those kids should have known that shooting up heroin is a bad decision, and the results are in no way something the vendor should lose sleep over, as long as he made a tidy profit and has a STEM degree. Once again, I think all this shit should be legal, I can just understand the definition of "predatory." Predatory does not mean "should be illegal." But if you can't see that some business models are predatory or exploitive, I honestly think that the problem is one of vocabulary, you probably just don't know what the words mean. You just know you've heard those words used by Democrats and you're mad. Mad! Yup. Or finding a girl who ran away from home to escape her molester step-dad and pimping her out. But apparently if you don't turn off all ethics and morality when it comes to making money you're a communist. Also, interesting how many people are conflating "ignorant" with "stupid" here. I find it interesting that you guys claim you aren't in favor of laws against this "predatory" lending, but the two analogous examples you provided are of unlawful behavior (selling drugs to children and human trafficking) So you recognize no morality other than laws? You have no objections to what we are discussing other than their current illegality? And in the past in America when the activities we mentioned were legal, you'd be ok with them? |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:13:57 PM EDT
[#26]
I know a guy who owns a chain of high interest loan places like that. I think at one time he had about 25-30 offices. He is worth millions. Like tens of millions. He is actually a pretty good guy.
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:15:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
THIS is the reason for THIS I wouldn't risk lending money to your idiot employee for any less either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a few employees that are good honest people, but not so bright financially. Anyway I get a wage garnishment for one of them who got a loan for $1000 and some change. It was a 16 month payment plan that netted the lender $750 profit. They then stupidly defaulted and now I have to take it out piece by piece. Now I am not pissed about the lender wanting to be made whole with some profit as that is why they are in business. However it's the interest rate of 85.17% that pisses me off! I would guess you could get a better loan fro the mob and better incentive to pay it back on time! My employee was a total moron to sign on the dotted line at that interest rate so he is also at fault. These places rip off the no so bright in the world and get away with it. Total scum! THIS is the reason for THIS I wouldn't risk lending money to your idiot employee for any less either. Yep. Your employee got a shitty loan because they have a history of not paying their debts and no one wants to loan them money. Welcome to the free market. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:28:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you recognize no morality other than laws? You have no objections to what we are discussing other than their current illegality? And in the past in America when the activities we mentioned were legal, you'd be ok with them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Also, don't forget, selling heroin to high school kids is also a completely legitimate and moral business because the moral value of any transaction lies entirely on the customer, and the vendor plays no part in the morality of the interaction. Those kids should have known that shooting up heroin is a bad decision, and the results are in no way something the vendor should lose sleep over, as long as he made a tidy profit and has a STEM degree. Once again, I think all this shit should be legal, I can just understand the definition of "predatory." Predatory does not mean "should be illegal." But if you can't see that some business models are predatory or exploitive, I honestly think that the problem is one of vocabulary, you probably just don't know what the words mean. You just know you've heard those words used by Democrats and you're mad. Mad! Yup. Or finding a girl who ran away from home to escape her molester step-dad and pimping her out. But apparently if you don't turn off all ethics and morality when it comes to making money you're a communist. Also, interesting how many people are conflating "ignorant" with "stupid" here. I find it interesting that you guys claim you aren't in favor of laws against this "predatory" lending, but the two analogous examples you provided are of unlawful behavior (selling drugs to children and human trafficking) So you recognize no morality other than laws? You have no objections to what we are discussing other than their current illegality? And in the past in America when the activities we mentioned were legal, you'd be ok with them? I should get you a jump to conclusions mat for christmas. 
High interest rate lending isn't immoral. It's a free will business transaction between adults. And there is a shit ton of stuff that is illegal that I think is perfectly moral. And shouldn't be illegal. I have no objections to high interest rate lending because I don't see anything unethical about it. I have a problem with human trafficking because by definition it involves force. I don't have a problem with free will prostitution, however. I have a problem with selling drugs to minors because minors cannot be expected to have the experience necessary to make inform decisions. That's why they are minors and don't have the same legal rights as adults. Grown ass adult? Then it's up to you to make informed decisions. When you sign on the dotted line, the rest of us, including the lenders, are going to assume you weighed all the risks involved and made the choice that seemed best to you and your own affairs. The alternative is to treat everyone as a child, which of course is the underlying tenets of Progressive philosophy. "Everyone who makes personal decisions I don't agree with is a child and incapable of handling their own affairs." Regarding "predatory" lending and the supposed immorality of it, I submit to you that given its wholly voluntary nature, it is no less immoral of the borrower to seek out and take a predatory loan than it is of the lender to give one. That's the bitch about decrying immorality of free will transactions you disapprove of between two parties. The narrative requires that one of them be a victim. Like your "pimped out" runaway. A negative connotation implying servitude. Is that how all prostitution works? Some filthy pimp predates on the poor helpless woman? Well it is certainly the narrative behind anti-prostitution laws. Don't worry. Big Mommy government will choke out all the businesses you don't like before long. |
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Posted: 5/28/2015 11:35:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You want predatory? Look at the businesses around military bases. They can't wait until the new guys away from home for the first time show up.If you get behind they call your CO. I laugh at their "we support our military" signs. "A-1 Auto. We Finance Anyone, E-1 to O-10! No Down Payment! No Credit Check!" Scumbags. Them and the "easy finance" jewelers. More than one of their kind I had to threaten to go to the Shore Patrol and get them put off limits. Funny, I never, ever saw a 4-star driving around in a car with an A-1 Auto decal on it. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:00:55 AM EDT
[#30]
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Except they aren't tricking anyone. The terms are given in advance. The interest rates are high and well-known. I am flabbergasted that you would call high interest lending equivalent to armed robbery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, maybe the "gun to the head" analogies are perfect. If it's not morally unacceptable to trick the less intelligent and less informed into giving up their money, then perhaps it's not unethical to point a gun at the heads of those too ignorant or unwilling to defend themselves from you. I see no difference. The point is not that the poor aren't good prey, but "predatory" perfectly describes someone who preys on the weak. Except they aren't tricking anyone. The terms are given in advance. The interest rates are high and well-known. I am flabbergasted that you would call high interest lending equivalent to armed robbery. The inability of many to understand this is exactly why it's morally wrong. The fact that the terms are given and rates are known doesn't help someone who is either too unintelligent or too uniformed to understand what it means. They can't understand how these transactions will hurt them just as you can't understand how they can't get it. High interest lending is targeted at people who are unlikely to be able to understand the ways in which they are being harmed. I don't think it should be illegal necessarily, and certainly not considered legally as severe armed robbery, but predatory lenders are thieves, and thieves are the scum of the earth. The fact that they give their targets an option doesn't buy them any moral superiority. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:04:52 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I should get you a jump to conclusions mat for christmas.
High interest rate lending isn't immoral. It's a free will business transaction between adults. And there is a shit ton of stuff that is illegal that I think is perfectly moral. And shouldn't be illegal. I have no objections to high interest rate lending because I don't see anything unethical about it. I have a problem with human trafficking because by definition it involves force. I don't have a problem with free will prostitution, however. I have a problem with selling drugs to minors because minors cannot be expected to have the experience necessary to make inform decisions. That's why they are minors and don't have the same legal rights as adults. Grown ass adult? Then it's up to you to make informed decisions. When you sign on the dotted line, the rest of us, including the lenders, are going to assume you weighed all the risks involved and made the choice that seemed best to you and your own affairs. The alternative is to treat everyone as a child, which of course is the underlying tenets of Progressive philosophy. "Everyone who makes personal decisions I don't agree with is a child and incapable of handling their own affairs." Regarding "predatory" lending and the supposed immorality of it, I submit to you that given its wholly voluntary nature, it is no less immoral of the borrower to seek out and take a predatory loan than it is of the lender to give one. That's the bitch about decrying immorality of free will transactions you disapprove of between two parties. The narrative requires that one of them be a victim. Like your "pimped out" runaway. A negative connotation implying servitude. Is that how all prostitution works? Some filthy pimp predates on the poor helpless woman? Well it is certainly the narrative behind anti-prostitution laws. Don't worry. Big Mommy government will choke out all the businesses you don't like before long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
... I find it interesting that you guys claim you aren't in favor of laws against this "predatory" lending, but the two analogous examples you provided are of unlawful behavior (selling drugs to children and human trafficking) So you recognize no morality other than laws? You have no objections to what we are discussing other than their current illegality? And in the past in America when the activities we mentioned were legal, you'd be ok with them? I should get you a jump to conclusions mat for christmas.
High interest rate lending isn't immoral. It's a free will business transaction between adults. And there is a shit ton of stuff that is illegal that I think is perfectly moral. And shouldn't be illegal. I have no objections to high interest rate lending because I don't see anything unethical about it. I have a problem with human trafficking because by definition it involves force. I don't have a problem with free will prostitution, however. I have a problem with selling drugs to minors because minors cannot be expected to have the experience necessary to make inform decisions. That's why they are minors and don't have the same legal rights as adults. Grown ass adult? Then it's up to you to make informed decisions. When you sign on the dotted line, the rest of us, including the lenders, are going to assume you weighed all the risks involved and made the choice that seemed best to you and your own affairs. The alternative is to treat everyone as a child, which of course is the underlying tenets of Progressive philosophy. "Everyone who makes personal decisions I don't agree with is a child and incapable of handling their own affairs." Regarding "predatory" lending and the supposed immorality of it, I submit to you that given its wholly voluntary nature, it is no less immoral of the borrower to seek out and take a predatory loan than it is of the lender to give one. That's the bitch about decrying immorality of free will transactions you disapprove of between two parties. The narrative requires that one of them be a victim. Like your "pimped out" runaway. A negative connotation implying servitude. Is that how all prostitution works? Some filthy pimp predates on the poor helpless woman? Well it is certainly the narrative behind anti-prostitution laws. Don't worry. Big Mommy government will choke out all the businesses you don't like before long. Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:07:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. I don't think it should be illegal necessarily, and certainly not considered legally as severe armed robbery, but predatory lenders are thieves, Why do you consider them thieves? Do you consider high interest rate lending to be theft? Yes or no. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:09:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you consider them thieves? Do you consider high interest rate lending to be theft? Yes or no. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. I don't think it should be illegal necessarily, and certainly not considered legally as severe armed robbery, but predatory lenders are thieves, Why do you consider them thieves? Do you consider high interest rate lending to be theft? Yes or no. Yes. Not by force, but yes. I would compare it to a scam. But, I consider scamming theft. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:11:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Not by force, but yes. I would compare it to a scam. But, I consider scamming theft. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. I don't think it should be illegal necessarily, and certainly not considered legally as severe armed robbery, but predatory lenders are thieves, Why do you consider them thieves? Do you consider high interest rate lending to be theft? Yes or no. Yes. Not by force, but yes. I would compare it to a scam. But, I consider scamming theft. So it's a form of theft that you think should be legal? I don't think you've thought your position out on this very thoroughly. Personally, I think all forms of theft should be illegal. Theft, by definition, involves coercion and/or deception. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:18:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it's a form of theft that you think should be legal? I don't think you've thought your position out on this very thoroughly. Personally, I think all forms of theft should be illegal. Theft, by definition, involves coercion and/or deception. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Dude you are the one who posted that those of us who think it's immoral should also want it to be illegal, not the other way around. I don't think it should be illegal necessarily, and certainly not considered legally as severe armed robbery, but predatory lenders are thieves, Why do you consider them thieves? Do you consider high interest rate lending to be theft? Yes or no. Yes. Not by force, but yes. I would compare it to a scam. But, I consider scamming theft. So it's a form of theft that you think should be legal? I don't think you've thought your position out on this very thoroughly. Personally, I think all forms of theft should be illegal. Theft, by definition, involves coercion and/or deception. The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Theft by deception involves deception. From the standpoint of enforcing the law, there's a world of different between "he tricked me" and "he robbed/burglarized me". But, I'm not talking about law enforcement, you are. I think that it is better to have wrong things be legal than have an excessive number of things be illegal, and to have a legal system that is incapable of handling the burden. ETA: but I suppose that's a discussion for another thread. To answer your question directly, yes, I think predatory lending is a form of theft, but I think it should be left legal, at least to an extent. At a certain point it become so egregious that there's just no logical excuse for it. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:21:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The inability of many to understand this is exactly why it's morally wrong. The fact that the terms are given and rates are known doesn't help someone who is either too unintelligent or too uniformed to understand what it means. They can't understand how these transactions will hurt them just as you can't understand how they can't get it. If they're too unintelligent to agree to a contract when they are told how much they're being loaned, what their interest rate is, and how much they need to pay back within a certain period of time, then how are they intelligent enough to drive a vehicle or own a gun? Maybe they should be institutionalized. Many of them know exactly what the terms are, and agree to them because they want/need money. Most anyone with minimal credit can get a credit card with a few thousand dollar limit and 20-25% APR. These people don't qualify for credit cards because they have a history of not paying their debts. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:23:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What the usual half-bright stampede of derp tards are forgetting in their rush to get some platitudes into this thread is that the high/interest-high/risk loan equation has been altered by government intervention in the case described by the OP. The government is intervening to garnish the wages of the idiot borrowers that work with the OP. Well, by GD logic, "don't loan money to idiots if you don't want to hold the bag on a defaulted loan." If the government is going to enter the fray on behalf of the lender, then the free market equation has already been trashed and the government might as well moderate the whole transaction. Finally, something that occurs within the context of capitalism, if one party is under duress, can certainly be predatory. Setting up a business model designed to rape the bank accounts of the poor, desperate and stupid is predatory as fuck. Imagine if you drove your 2-wheel car twenty miles down a dirt Jeep track, in the desert, in the summer with your whole family. Two days later I happen upon you in my well-equipped Jeep. Your family is literally hours from death from dehydration... I offer you water at $250/gallon, and I offer to drive you back to town, but only after you sign a contract pledging to pay me $10.000. Predatory, or just good capitalism? After all, if you weren't dumb you wouldn't be in that situation. Personally I think that government shouldn't regulate predatory lenders, on either side of the equation; but to say that there isn't behavior in business that can be fairly described as predatory is just plain stupid. (and to be expected in GD). |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:23:47 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Your idea of theft is based on your feelings and not logic. "In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it." When you sign a contract agreeing to pay interest, you give consent to no longer own that money after the period of time outlined in the contract. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:24:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Theft by deception involves deception. From the standpoint of enforcing the law, there's a world of different between "he tricked me" and "he robbed/burglarized me". But, I'm not talking about law enforcement, you are. I think that it is better to have wrong things be legal than have an excessive number of things be illegal, and to have a legal system that is incapable of handling the burden. So does every business transaction in human history. Are you implying that any time someone bartered something, both parties committed theft? Or does, you know, consent or lack thereof have something to do with it? And you've got a hell of a hill to climb to prove that high interest rate loans are deceptive when the exact terms are very clearly spelled out ahead of time. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:24:51 AM EDT
[#40]
I'll say this for these threads; they always out the liberals that want to explain why some people aren't capable of adult decisions.
Personal responsibility is a mother fucker. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:27:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they're too unintelligent to agree to a contract when they are told how much they're being loaned, what their interest rate is, and how much they need to pay back within a certain period of time, then how are they intelligent enough to drive a vehicle or own a gun? Maybe they should be institutionalized. Many of them know exactly what the terms are, and agree to them because they want/need money. Most anyone with minimal credit can get a credit card with a few thousand dollar limit and 20-25% APR. These people don't qualify for credit cards because they have a history of not paying their debts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The inability of many to understand this is exactly why it's morally wrong. The fact that the terms are given and rates are known doesn't help someone who is either too unintelligent or too uniformed to understand what it means. They can't understand how these transactions will hurt them just as you can't understand how they can't get it. If they're too unintelligent to agree to a contract when they are told how much they're being loaned, what their interest rate is, and how much they need to pay back within a certain period of time, then how are they intelligent enough to drive a vehicle or own a gun? Maybe they should be institutionalized. Many of them know exactly what the terms are, and agree to them because they want/need money. Most anyone with minimal credit can get a credit card with a few thousand dollar limit and 20-25% APR. These people don't qualify for credit cards because they have a history of not paying their debts. Well I think the threshold for institutionalization should be considerably higher, but you're welcome to your opinion. Again, another discussion for another thread. The negative choices and actions of the borrower don't excuse the negative actions and choices of the lender. If I left a stack of 20s on my dashboard in the parkinglot of the mall and had my doors unlocked, am I an idiot? Of course. Did I have a choice not to do that? Of course. Does that excuse the actions of the person who takes the money? No. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:28:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your idea of theft is based on your feelings and not logic. "In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it." When you sign a contract agreeing to pay interest, you give consent to no longer own that money after the period of time outlined in the contract. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Your idea of theft is based on your feelings and not logic. "In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it." When you sign a contract agreeing to pay interest, you give consent to no longer own that money after the period of time outlined in the contract. No, my idea of theft in this case and in terms of your posted definition hinges on the word "consent." |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:28:43 AM EDT
[#43]
One day I dream of owning a house in town that I can do owner financing and sell to some people who don't qualify for a regular bank loan. Charge 15% interest with a balloon payment in three years. In three years when they can't make the balloon payment, put in new carpet and paint and repeat.
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:34:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryCorn Woman is still scalping people. Ba-dum chi |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:37:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Corn Woman is still scalping people. Ba-dum chi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Corn Woman is still scalping people. Ba-dum chi You're a Brave man for making that joke. It's liable to cause a real Squaw...k |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:37:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Just to add a little fuel to the fire, we occasionally get an offer from our mortgage company to pay $25 to skip a payment and add it to the end of our loan.
Essentially, they want you to pay them to add another month to your 30 year loan in exchange for skipping a payment. Well fuck that!  We always put a little toward the principal every month, even if it is only $25 or so. I had the talk with my wife when we first met and I learned she had a car note with 12% interest rate and unpaid student loans. After an hour with a pencil and paper she was horrified to learn how much she was really paying for her car. We had it paid off within a couple of months after the talk. Some people just don't know. Other people do know but don't care because they need whatever "it" is NOW, and don't want to save up. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:39:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So does every business transaction in human history. Are you implying that any time someone bartered something, both parties committed theft? Or does, you know, consent or lack thereof have something to do with it? And you've got a hell of a hill to climb to prove that high interest rate loans are deceptive when the exact terms are very clearly spelled out ahead of time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Theft by deception involves deception. From the standpoint of enforcing the law, there's a world of different between "he tricked me" and "he robbed/burglarized me". But, I'm not talking about law enforcement, you are. I think that it is better to have wrong things be legal than have an excessive number of things be illegal, and to have a legal system that is incapable of handling the burden. So does every business transaction in human history. Are you implying that any time someone bartered something, both parties committed theft? Or does, you know, consent or lack thereof have something to do with it? And you've got a hell of a hill to climb to prove that high interest rate loans are deceptive when the exact terms are very clearly spelled out ahead of time. Yeah you're clearly missing the point, and evidently on purpose. Wow. All theft by deception is theft, not all theft is theft by deception. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:40:47 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah you're clearly missing the point, and evidently on purpose. Wow. All theft by deception is theft, not all theft is theft by deception. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The bold part simply isn't true. Theft involves taking something that isn't yours. Theft by deception involves deception. From the standpoint of enforcing the law, there's a world of different between "he tricked me" and "he robbed/burglarized me". But, I'm not talking about law enforcement, you are. I think that it is better to have wrong things be legal than have an excessive number of things be illegal, and to have a legal system that is incapable of handling the burden. So does every business transaction in human history. Are you implying that any time someone bartered something, both parties committed theft? Or does, you know, consent or lack thereof have something to do with it? And you've got a hell of a hill to climb to prove that high interest rate loans are deceptive when the exact terms are very clearly spelled out ahead of time. Yeah you're clearly missing the point, and evidently on purpose. Wow. All theft by deception is theft, not all theft is theft by deception. Please list some forms of theft that include neither deception or coercion. |
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:41:18 AM EDT
[#49]
I know what you're saying OP. Predatory lenders are pure scum on the scale of thieving cocksuckers that charge $20.00 for a bag of ice or gallon of bottled water to desperate people after a disaster. I know, why are they 'thieving cocksuckers', nobody's forcing those people to pay those prices blah, blah, blah. It must be boring as fuck to be so perfect.
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Posted: 5/29/2015 12:47:41 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spent a large chunk of my life having to use pawn shops, payday loan places and buy here/pay here lots and there wasn't a bank or CC company that could stop laughing long enough to tell me no. I stopped spending money on stupid shit and started paying my bills instead. Now, I am almost debt free, my last car was @ 7.75% (extremely good for me and it only has 4 more payments), I have CC with a $12000.00 limit (raised twice) and a 12.99% rate that has 2 grand on it (it will be paid off in 6 to 8 months). I stopped making stupid decisions on my own without the "predatory" (lol) places trying to save my soul (and if one had, I would have just gone on to the next one). It's not my problem if people are too stupid to manage their money, and I don't see a reason to drive business to my competitors. I congratulate you on making better decisions, but I caution you that you are still not making good decisions. 1. You owe $2000 on a credit card at a non-zero rate. Paying credit card interest is literally one of the worst and most common financial blunders. Why don't you have 2K in cash to pay this off? Sell guns if you have to. 2. You are paying 7.75% APR on a depreciating asset. Why didn't you buy a used car with cash? Get off the Sisyphean auto financing train ride. 3. You didn't mention it, but I assume you don't have much cash in an emergency fund. You simply must have an emergency fund. Your car is going to break down at some point and you will get sick and need to pay a $1000 doctor bill. It will happen and you won't be able to plan it. With no emergency fund, you will charge these expenses and then you'll be paying horrible interest rates for it. If you have no emergency fund, you are planning for financial mistakes. Trust me when I say that I have made horrible financial decisions. My stupid has hurt, and I'm determined to never make those horrible decisions again. |
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