I was actually surprised by this article: LINK

"We, as Americans, work too many hours. If you don’t believe so, check out the following data points that compare us to our peers around the world.

American Work-Life Balance
According to the Center for American Progress on the topic of work and family life balance, “in 1960, only 20 percent of mothers worked. Today, 70 percent of American children live in households where all adults are employed.” I don’t care who stays home and who works in terms of gender (work opportunity equality for all – it’s a family choice). Either way, when all adults are working (single or with a partner), that’s a huge hit to the American family and free-time in the American household.
The U.S. is the ONLY country in the Americas without a national paid parental leave benefit. The average is over 12 weeks of paid leave anywhere other than Europe and over 20 weeks in Europe.
Zero industrialized nations are without a mandatory option for new parents to take parental leave. That is, except for the United States.
overworked

American Average Work Hours:
At least 134 countries have laws setting the maximum length of the work week; the U.S. does not.
In the U.S., 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week.
According to the ILO, “Americans work 137 more hours per year than Japanese workers, 260 more hours per year than British workers, and 499 more hours per year than French workers.”
Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker.

American Paid Vacation Time & Sick Time:
There is not a federal law requiring paid sick days in the United States.
The U.S. remains the only industrialized country in the world that has no legally mandated annual leave.
In every country included except Canada and Japan (and the U.S., which averages 13 days/per year), workers get at least 20 paid vacation days.  In France and Finland, they get 30 – an entire month off, paid, every year.

The Impact of Too Much Work
I’m not telling you to work less hours. If you genuinely love what you do and are doing it for the right reasons, you are more than entitled to spend all of your waking hours plugging away.

But for many of us, more work leads to more stress and a lower quality of life. Without time to unwind, take care of your home, spend time with loved ones, enjoy our hobbies, connect with friends, and generally live a more balanced life. Stress is the #1 cause of health problems – mentally and physically. And there are few things that stress us out on a consistent basis like work does, especially when it takes away from all of the other things that life has to offer.

Americans are the Outliers
And if all of this data tells anything, it’s that we are the outliers, not the norm. Why are we the outliers?

Our companies fairly ruthlessly let people go. We want to keep our jobs and not be a ‘low performer’ compared to others.
The decline of the union has led to less paid time off and other leave benefits.
Cultural value of money over everything else. We love money, we want more of it, and we think money can buy happiness. And the more we work, the more we get paid.
It’s been drilled in our heads that we are lazy compared to emerging market counterpart workers in India, Mexico, China, and other parts of Asia. Who isn’t? And what is our mental image of the work environments in those locales? To validate those fears, our jobs are being outsourced to the cheap labor in those countries. In reality, the U.S. is still the world leader in productivity per person.
Our legislative branch of the government (on both sides of the aisle) has been bought and as a result has shied away from passing laws that protect workers that every other industrialized nation has passed.
We generally don’t fight for our working rights. We take what is given to us.
What we All Need to Remember
What we all need to remind ourselves is that it doesn’t have to be this way."

We have a lot of people who don't want to work to support.

I hear Greece has a nice short work week.

That's been the case for many years.

I prefer to keep my job and work OT whenever I want it. And the mandatory OT isn't some oppressive yoke.

Brought to you by the folks who don't want to work but want to have everything those of us who choose to work have..........

That is such bullshit.  They should send Americans to live in any of those countries with a better "work/life" ratio and see how they like it.

Americans work more than Japanese workers?  They also live in a house that would be a fucking mansion in Japan and have discretionary income that a Japanese worker would kill to have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_American_Progress






ok, so, which way should it be?
what is your agenda with this thread?
are all of the data in the OP actually true?
do you trust this organization?

ps


huh?


ar-jedi

I thought they said Americans were lazy...

Except for Chick Fil A

Americans work a lot. Not a surprise.

Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker.




Stopped at this commie bull shit.

Business owners made capital investments to increase productivity, why the fuck would the average American worker get more?

Also, productivity does not equal profit. That just means businesses are flooding the market with more shit, likely at lower margins than of the 1950's.


I do think Americans work too much, but the article is nothing but bull shit propaganda. Americans work so much because they want to earn more money to keep up with the Joneses.

Obama has already fixed the work hours, everyone will be part time workers soon enough...

If that's moving up then I'm moving out.

American has never been about being "the norm". The norm couldn't beat the British Empire. The norm couldn't build the panama canal. The norm couldn't invent the airplane. The norm couldn't develop the A-bomb or win WWII. The norm couldn't break the sound barrier. The norm couldn't put a man on the moon. Fuck the norm. You know what's wrong with America today? People shooting for "the norm" instead of the moon. Maybe Americans kill themselves with work...and maybe that's just a symptom of a culture that has routinely lead to people accomplishing objectives once thought impossible. You go back to the convention and put a 40 hour work week in the Constitution and we never would have got anything done. I'm not even sure the country would still exist. You gonna beat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan working 9-5? Don't fucking think so.

Does anyone doubt that our standard of living is four times higher than the 1950s?  This is the chickenshit way the Commies always try to make their arguments seem reasonable - they discount all technological innovations and quality of life improvements made possible by capitalism and then compare things out of context.  Would anybody here be happy working 1/4 of the time they do now if they just had to live circa 1950s technology and logistics?

I fucking hate Commies.  Kicking their nuts through their teeth is still way too good for them

One phone/family, One TV-no cable, a 1000 sq. ft. house, one no frills sedan, eat out twice a year for the wifes B-day, and your anniversary.  Scale bake medical cost to pennicillian, appendix, tonsils, setting bones, and morphine.  There is a lot of stuff, services, and "needs" people never dreamt of in 1955.

Sorry, but I have to ask:  how many hours a week are you working?  

I'm averaging 50 to 60.  Many of my coworkers are working more.

Hmmmm, I think I found the source of the so-called gender pay gap....

Wal=Mart funds them???? WTF????

50% of Americans work a lot, the other half sits on their ass.  Last year I had over 400 hours of OT.....this year only about 40 so far.

Sucked in!

Things have changed a lot (for me at least) in the 18 years I've been in my industry.

Started out working pretty much a straight 40 hours a week, a few hours here and there above that.  We also all had 1-2 projects we were working on..tops..

About 4-5 years ago things started shifting.  Most of us now work anywhere between 50-60 hours a week minimum and are responsible for juggling as many as 6 projects at a time.  The PhD's have it worse, as they are basically on 24/7.  I know several that field calls from management into the wee hours of the morning.

It's just nuts..with the amount of work we have there is no humanly way to get it all done..

At this point I've just accepted it all.  I'll never make the money I am making elsewhere, and if I am smart (or at least smarter than I have been) with my money I can probably retire in 10-12 years and get a job doing something much less demanding and stressful. If I live that long it is...

Very few Americans would be willing to live a 1950s existence. If they were, they could do it on 20 hours a week.

I assume you mean an existence that lacks most of the luxuries/toys we surround ourselves with today and are basically working to pay for?

Yes, an 800-1000sf house, not a 3500sf McMansion.  No air conditioning, one car for the household, a land line phone, no cable, no internet, no cell phones, no 70" TV, simple meals cooked by a stay at home mother, and a father who labored at a blue collar job.  

It doesn't cost much to live like that, ask retired people dependent on social security.  Compared to every country I've lived in overseas, we live a ridiculously extravagant lifestyle.  Most people in the world live in multi-generational households.  Three generations under one roof, and when grandpa and grandma die, the parents and kids each move up a rung.

Meh, I work 50-60 hours/week but I get 6 weeks of PTO and great bennies. Plus I like going on vacations all over the world. So, I'm good with it.

I would be fine with it.

But IPads,smart phones, HBO, my next AR build.....

Came here to post this

 

I'll tell my boss, maybe he'll let me off early this week

You seem angry and stressed.  maybe you need to work less and chill out more.

Seriously though - for all the long long hours and flog gin away at work, the American economy is still faced with an insurmountable level of debt, looming govt spending cuts and growing Free Shit Army which you are paying more and more for while you guys flog yourselves to death on the work treadmill to pay for it all. Some people may question what they are doing it for, and get to a point where the benefit of working longer hours is outweighed by the tuime they are losing with their family, or in recreation and in their general health and wellbeing.

The big house thing is probably more to do with available space - and what people are happy with - The Japanese seem to be less materialistic and there really isn't a lot of cheap land available in Japan, Unlike the USA where the country is vast, land is cheap and the population density is a fraction of Japan and other developed nations.

You may value an enormous house, big cars and lots of trinkets as a desirable thing to have, and that's cool if that is what you want to do, and the desire for material reward and money trumps the desire for a balanced work/family life.  Other people do not value those things to the same extent and prefer time with their family, less stress and see their quality of life enhanced by a better work/life balance.

Many Americans might want a better work/life ratio, but the drive to work harder and harder to keep up with those who are not prepared to take stock and recognise that their work life balance does not work for others, forces them to work beyond the hours they deem acceptable.

There is also the factor that working long hours doesn't necessarily make for a better product.  People tend to do their best work then they are not tired and are refreshed.  They have less accidents, make less mistakes and generally deliver a better quality of work. Personally I'd rather be exceptionally good at what I do, command a better salary as a result and not have to work longer hours - in true arfcom style it would be quite literally a case of "get both".

Nothing against the idea of a good work ethic at all, in fact I actively encourage it.  But people work differently and varying levels of productivity at different times of the day and under different conditions. Some work best at night, other early in the morning.

If you are happy working all the hours god sends, then that's fine and good luck to you.  However if people want to work less for whatever reason but are still paying their way, then should they really be criticised and forced to try and keep up with those who put work as a priority above everything else?

you forgot "look what followed me home today!"

"In every country included except Canada and Japan (and the U.S., which averages 13 days/per year), workers get at least 20 paid vacation days. In France and Finland, they get 30 – an entire month off, paid, every year."

Just correcting the math: 5 paid vacation days = 1 week.   So, 20 paid vacation days = 4 weeks of leave and 30 = six weeks.

They might charge vacation days for weekends like the .mil does.  30 days is 30 fucking days, not 6 weeks.

 


Yeah, the 30-40% of us who carry everybody else are the most overworked people in the developed world.


We support our own "countrymen" FSA and do a pretty significant job throwing cash at international  FSA ingrates as well.

Does the political class really want us working less? How much less tax revenue would be collected for them to squander?

Good point.  Found this about France: 5 weeks (30 days with Saturdays, but not Sundays counted as holidays)

Tax revenue?  They don't depend on that, they spend future borrowed money.

Anti-Capitalists !

Prove me wrong.
.

Yep - Average in UK is around 4 weeks paid annual leave.  

You can sometimes then get additional days accrued as a bonus for years of service.  I stared on 18 days leave per year, I now get 32 days on full pay and 12 days of flexible leave where I have accrued more hours than the 40 I'm contracted for.

I only get OT when on specific duties such as Emergency or Incident Management.  I do not get OT for working longer hours in my day to day role.  I can accrue those hours and take days off at a maximum of 2 per calendar month and no more than 12 days in any calendar year, but any hours worked above and beyond that I do without getting payed.

Last year I worked an addition 117 hours without pay over the year at times when I was needed, but the flexibility offered by my employer in catering to my work/life balance meant that I was happy to do those additional hours in order to give a bit back.

Flexible working means that I can work hours that suit me to some extent, which means that I can still do things with the kids, attend personal appointments etc, while still working my fully contracted hours.

Not all jobs suit flexible working hours but there is always scope for give and take when you have a good employer.

 




Yes, because there would be the equivalent of "job sharing".


More people would be "employed" and potential sources of taxation.

 

How often do have mandatory OT?



For me it has been every week this year.

My direct counterparts within my company that work overseas get 2-3x as much time off as I do and the same compensation

FPNI

I could identify a number of false premises in the OP, but I think I'll just wonder aloud whether OP might be a fan of Upton Sinclair.

We are also the most successful country and have the highest average quality of living by far.

Standard in Germany is 6 weeks and employees are expected to take a month of that, in a block, during the summer. 8 weeks vacation isn't unusual.  Work weeks also end at 1400 on Friday.

That being said I finished a position with a State university in 2013. That benefit package included 6 weeks of vacation, 10 holidays and shit ton of sick days/floaters. So I guess it's out there....just have to find it if time off is that important to you.  When I left that position I turned in 8 weeks of vacation for cash...

You sure about that? I mean beyond the "God Bless America" stuff....have you been to Europe? Scandinavia?

Yes.  Houses are smaller, gas costs $10 a gallon so everybody drives shitboxes, personal income tax is 50%+.  Their standard of living is below ours, incontrovertably.

Not so.

US ranks 4th under highest average quality of living with Norway (1st).

The measures of what constitutes a successful country are subjective.

In terms of the worlds richest countries China is ranked number 1 with the US ranked as Number 2

If you base that measure on GDP per capita based on population size then the US comes in at 11th place.