You cannot resist! She wants your essence!!!

I think it was more of a.....time thing. They seemed to think that the dad should just stfu for however many years until mon decided he was.......worthy of her time.

Everyone understands babies are all consuming for a time, but its not impossible to raise a kid and keep a marriage/relationship strong.

It was what i call the martyrdom of motherhood effect.

You hit the nail on the head as far as little johnny not getting the idea that he was #1.

That was not the jist of these ladies. They were loud n proud about little johnny taking the #1 slot . A recipe for a selfish and narcissistic person imho.

That doesn't match what I've seen here. Quotes?

What I've seen is mom's saying they didn't feel very sexy with toddlers pulling at them all day and that they could use a little understanding if they had trouble shifting gears at the end of the day. I've also seen women here mention post partum depression and the importance of medical care.

Snow , i cant crop on my phone or quote. This was some fb page i belong to.

None of the women here have said anything like these women .

Oh! I misunderstood you. Facebook cunts gonna Facebook cunt.

There is no question about it, lol. Denied!

In fact, the most important relationship in a family is NOT parent/child, but husband/wife.  I like to remind people that you're a family when you say "I do," not "I'm pregnant."

Kids can survive and even thrive in some pretty harsh environments and situations as long as they know that mom and dad are solid.  It's the foundation of their world.  And, maybe even more importantly, that relationship is a model for their future interactions with the opposite sex.

So, yeah, while kids are the focus of the parents, the priority should be on the marriage.  Without it, the kids are on their own.

Oh, no question, a profoundly dysfunctional mindset.  At once, terrible for both the marriage and the child.

I'm no developmental psychologist, but this sounds legit to me

Some legitimate points.  My wife's sister had post partum pretty bad after her last baby and needed some temporary help stabilizing her hormonal/chemical balance.  The difference from her usual self was pretty stark.

The toddler one I can see too, at the same time I would hope that a woman's husband giving her attention would help her realize that she's still attractive.  It's a tough situation.  One of the reasons why I wanted to stop at 5 kids was that I was tired of playing second fiddle to babies and toddlers.  We needed to be each other's top priority again for the sake of the relationship.  I need her to have a little energy for me at some point in the day.  With babies and toddlers, she was overtired when she woke in the morning, overtired at mid-day, and overtired by the time we put the baby/toddler to bed at night.  She had nothing left for spending time with me.

Wise words here.  The spousal relationship needs to be a top priority.  When the couple's relationship is strong, the children almost always benefit automatically.  When the spousal relationship suffers, the children always suffer.  I'm always surprised when I see posts of, "but my child comes first!" at the expense of the spousal relationship, because if they wanted to give their child the best environment, they'd make sure the spousal relationship was solid first.

Yup, a house is only as strong as it's foundation, better or for worse, sickness and in health, we sail or bail together

I think it all comes down to spousal selection. We can talk till we're blue in the face about saving marriages and making things work, but the biggest favor you can do yourself is to be sure to be equally yoked.

Seems to me that when we have happily married folks saying "guys, it's not that hard", that they chose better so they never had to deal with a lot of the problems you have in a mismatch.

In order to save marriages, I think we should be doing a lot more work before the marriage ever happens. Save the singles first, teach them diplomacy, psychology, self-analysis, self-respect and the analysis of others and situations and how to figure out what drives them and what their higher order maslow needs are and you'll go a long way to preventing divorce.

Sounds easy in discussion, much more difficult in practice.  How can it be difficult to make sure that you're equally yoked?  Answer:  It can be difficult because in a traditional setting, there isn't a baby in the equation when you get married.  Sure, you're each other's top priority when you marry.  Then, a year, or two, or five later you have a child and suddenly the homeostasis of the relationship can get thrown out of whack.  The baby has no understanding, and certainly no respect nor appreciation, for mommy's time or daddy's personal needs.  Mommy's maternal instinct is in hyperdrive, and Daddy is just trying to be supportive.

So without any malicious intentions on anyone's part, priorities can get shifted and suddenly mommy's and daddy's relationship finds itself on the backburner because they're trying so hard for baby.  Now, one would hope that before long, the couple would realize the imbalance and try to get things back on track, but children stay naturally demanding and after a couple of years the parents have forgotten what it was like to make each other a top priority.

Which is why it needs to be said periodically that the parents need to keep each other a top priority...to remind people that they should evaluate their relationship and see if it needs adjusting.

Perhaps a structure could be agreed upon before the marriage? In anticipation of the disruption? Kind of like how you always go to church regardless of how strong your faith is that week. You just do this thing that you know helps with it. Or kind of like you tell your wife "in the event of a communications failure and a need to bug out, I'll meet you at location A. If I'm not there by the third day of the emergency or if you can't stay there, fall back to location B. Here's a map of the places where you'll be able to leave notes along your way." Basically wargaming the pitfalls of baby having and working up contingency plans and failsafes. Like "If we go 14 days without sex, we use the emergency fund to get a hotel room and throw the baby at grandma, using the codeword 'situation 14' so she knows what's up."

I say this with the kindest of hints for snow. Our Arfcom wonderchild, there are no LIMITS for you. Lesser mortals have that hindrance, but you've excelled over them, so with that understanding exceed on ...

I laughed (I can just imagine an ARFcommer shouting out "Plan B for Blueballs, grab the suitcases and lingerie kit Charlie, GO GO GO!!!!"), but this is EXACTLY what it takes--planning ahead, to set aside time, energy and resources to the #1 priority in your life, the relationship with your spouse (above that of job, children, your fantasy football league, whatever).


Mrs Limaxray and I had a daily ritual.  It was called "couch time."  After I got home, changed out of uniform, maybe after dinner, we'd spend about 10-15 minutes on the couch just chatting.  Sometimes we'd have nothing to say and stare at each other; sometimes it'd be an hour before we were done.  But during that time, the boys were NOT allowed to interrupt us unless it was a national emergency. That was OUR time, and the kids were not allowed to intrude upon it.

Son #X: "Dad can we--"
Me:  "Stop.  Are we having couch time?
Son:   "Yes....."
Me:  "Is anyone bleeding?"
Son:  "No...."
Me: "Is anyone on fire?"
Son: "No...."
Me:  "Then it can wait until we're done.  Git."

Took a couple of months, but they got it.

Date nights were sacrosanct, and as frequent as we could afford.  And about every other month, we'd take a weekend out.  Sometimes it was to the Motel 6 across town, and all we did was go to bed at eight and turn off the alarm for the morning, but we were TOGETHER and focusing on us.

When they got old enough to A) get up in the morning and feed themselves, and B) show the self-control to not kill each other without supervision (oldest was about 12), we started our Saturday morning breakfast dates.  We discovered evening dates were too much for us--cost a lot with a sitter, and neither of us were really up to dinner and a movie at the end of the day, and Saturday mornings were easier to schedule.  So we started going out for breakfast.  At first it was 20 minutes at the Panera down the road, then it was 1.5 hours at a full-blown diner. They've become a tradition, even with the boys out of the house; when I was in Afghanistan last year, we'd  Skype in and eat together.  Except because of the time difference, it'd be Mrs Limaxray's breakfast and my dinner, so we called them "brinner" dates.  

But yeah, the bottom line is to set aside time where you're husband and wife, first, and the kids know better than to intrude on it.  When they see that you make your spouse a priority, and as long as they see that you're actively caring for and interested in each other, as far as they're concerned, all is right with the world, no matter what's going on.

ETA:  Another aspect of this that's equally important:  loving, compassionate communication on what's going on in my head, to my wife, so she understands where I'm at and potentially where I feel shortchanged as a husband, and vice versa.  not to poke her in the eye, but just to keep the comms pipeline open and working. And, if she's on board with the whole "the family started when we said "I do"" thing, then can easily find and fix the cracks before they become catastrophic structural failures.

I'm late to the party here, but in two man rule situations the senior person is still responsible.  The second person bears a responsibility, but the senior person is always the one most responsible, and your analogy makes no sense, which suggests to me you've never had to live in that particular world in the military and probably shouldn't pontificate about it.

I think I'm just lucky that I'm into men. Other women look at me like I'm speaking Chinese when I say anything that doesn't concern the weather or how cute their kids are.

So for the ladies of this thread that like to say men are just as responsible for a woman becoming pregnant as the woman herself is (because we control where the baby batter goes )...



Society disagrees.  Women are the gatekeeper of the vag.  Men are trying to kick open the gate from puberty to death, and women bear 100% of the responsibility to slam it in our face, unless they are forcefully overpowered.  We have laws for punishing guys who do that. Apparently we have laws for punishing guys who share a bottle of wine with a girl (even their wife) and have sex, too.  

That poster is fucked and so is your thinking. I don't give a flying fuck what "society" thinks about anything. Men are the gatekeepers of the baby batter. They bear part responsibility.

You are in charge of your dick and where you put it. You are not a helpless animal. It's not a woman's responsibility to save you from your dick. You are not a powerless victim. Control your dick.

"life... finds a way"

This is amazing. Thank you kindly for posting such a positive example of a healthy marriage.
Well done!

Can't make me. Don't have to.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You're right, it's not a woman's responsibility to save me from my dick, it's her responsibilty to save herself.  In the pre-birth control and abortion era, women had pretty shitty odds of catching a lifetime committment from giving up the poon, and in the pre-court ordered man-raping we call child support, men had pretty good odds of walking away with no consequences.  Then society "fixed" those problems and let women be as slutty as they want to be without the biological consequence.  In the "bad old days" women had to provide some incentive (exclusive access to the cock garage) to keep men around supporting those kids, but we have moved far beyond that now.  Now uncle sam foots the bill for all the bastards being born, and society is better for it, right?

You are powerless before my vagina! Fill it, you testosterone addled animal! Fill ittttt!!!!!!

You never let me be in charge.

this thread just shows the delusion.

Women are powerless creatures incapable of controlling themselves.

it is, always, without fail, the man's fault.

Still trying to figure out what the title of this thread means?

It's her responsibility to save herself and it's his responsibility to save himself and it's both their responsibilities to save the child from being conceived. In the pre-birth control and abortion era, women were under pressure to name the father and fathers were under pressure to wed the mothers. And once a marriage was achieved, or an agreement to keep quiet about a bastard, cock garage access (as you so charmingly put it) wasn't really a concern.

But the "bad old days" are gone and are now irrelevant. Whether the courts give you a legitimate reason to complain or society disrespects your gender is irrelevent to to what your responsibilities are as a person and a potential parent.

No amount of oppression and ill use of you by your government, society or women changes the responsibility of a parent to a child. They can physically interfere with it, they can take away your ability to affect the child at all, but none of that gives you the right to absolve yourself of your duty. You simply cannot wash your hands of that responsibility.

Funny how all the men who DIDN'T fuck this chick, still have to pay for the kids they didn't spawn.

but her, no.  she doesn't pay a fucking dime.

but man's fault.

I am sure the unknown number of fathers responsible are paying through the nose.

this poor victim.

Where are you getting that? Who said that? One of our wimmens?

You can't handle the responsibility. Now service me, worm.

question
If a woman gives up a child for adoption, does she owe child support?

Who's question are you quoting?  Can you cut and paste more of the post?

I ignored the thread for a while as it devolved to a ricketts' echo chamber.

not a direct response to any particular post, just questioning the assumption that both the man and the woman share equal responsibility, which does appear to be the going assumption agreed?

That's why I went and got myself fixed. I've dated a few girls that I didn't even tell.

But that's not what you posted. You posted this:





If what you believe is that the women here say "the woman share equal responsibility" (which imo, sounds like a fair summation), and you disagree with it, fine.

But what you posted was that the women here are saying "Women are powerless creatures incapable of controlling themselves. it is, always, without fail, the man's fault.", which is totally different from what you say now you believe.

It looks like you were just spouting inflamatory nonsense you don't even believe and therefor won't even try to defend. Isn't that the very definition of trolling?




Sylvan, you've admitted before that you do troll, for shits and giggles. But this is really, bizarrely simpleminded trolling. In 2008, I started lurking threads you were in, paying attention to your opinion about martial matters. You were, and still are a voice of authority on multiple subjects. But you've just gotten really weird, dude. Is everything ok? What's changed? Why have you dumbed things down and started trolling so hard and bitterly?

missing cw5 takes its toll on a man

I asked this question a few pages back. Of course you didn't answer because you COULDNT answer without contradicting yourself:

Are you saying that women do not also pay taxes for social welfare programs that support unwed mothers and their bastards?

It's amazing how many women didn't fuck this chick yet still have to pay for the children she spawns....

With 40% of babies being born in the US being bastards, there are a lot more women suckling at the taxpayer's teat to take care of their precious spawn then there are men.  Since women also earn less than men, they are typically in lower tax brackets anyway.  

So yes, there are a few women that actually pay net federal income tax, but nowhere near 50% of the tax base.

That is a fair question.

There are a number of factors involved.

1.  My children are older, my son is dating quite seriously now and is about to go to college.  I am trying to understand what is a very different dynamic than when I went to college 25 years ago.  The moment my son enters campus he is assumed to be a rapist.  He can, for any sort of contact, not limited to sexual intercourse be expelled immediately with no due process for any reason.  A consensual kiss can immediately construed into a sexual assault and thats it, his life is over.  Its quite a situation to find your child in.  Its complete bullshit, of course, but no one seems to care, because mysogony.

2.  the second reason is that as I peel back the onion on why the US defense policy is so fucked up its mostly because strategy is a slave to culture.  American culture is fucked up, so any strategy must match that fucked up culture.  the war on men (and don't pretend it isn't) is one of the driving factors in the fucked up culture.  the federal government sees its primary role now not national defense, but defense against the evil white man.  when you are fighting a large segment of society as your primary enemy, its hard to fight real enemies.

3.  when you reward irresponsibility, you get more of it.  women are largely absolved of responsibility, everything is the patriarchy's fault.  Pregnant and single?  Man's fault.  Job doesn't pay enough?  man's fault.  got a worthless degree and can't get a job?  glass ceiling.

This is an unsustainable situation and it is amazing how many people are comfortable with it.  You see the death of europe?  Its coming here.  And it will be on the wings of harpies.

How could women be paying taxes when they only make 70 cents to the man's dollar

This tells me all that I need to know about your mindset.
"Poor me, I'm a consummate victim, all women are evil sluts, everything is unfair, instead of working to fix the issues - I'll just whine on online gun forums...etc."

Cute.

you may think its cute.

but its a tragedy.

so far to go for real equality.

I agree with you. On everything.

But I still hate your new trolling schtick and miss old sincere Sylvan.

Low level trolling. If you were really interested in solving any of these issues - you'd probably do more than piss and moan on a gun forum (shrugs) but you're not interested in doing anything to make things better for your son and your future grandsons. It's one thing to point out injustices and another thing entirely to put in the work it takes to bring about necessary change. I, for one, want a better system for my sons and my daughters and I am actively working to make those changes.

But your way of bitching and doing nothing is cool too. Keep it up.
I'm out.
Enjoy the rest of your day/life.