LOL,  of course a man who doesn't want to get married must be dysfunctional.

Agreed. I was speaking of the ones that brag about deliberately screwing it up, though. I've seen several guys boasting about it right here on Arf.

I've been married 30+ years.  Raised two children.  I have all my same friends.  I've pretty much always done / bought whatever I wanted.    You need to find a woman who is strong enough to stand on her own, but still wants / needs the partnership gained by marriage.  We are a couple...  but not at the expense of losing our individuality.  Be picky.  Choose wisely.

 
You choose wisely.  As with anything, you can make decisions at the start that increase the odds of an acceptable outcome.  However, that choice is just the beginning.  After that, it still requires work, every day.  And that's a good thing, not a bad one.  

Good comment.

I'm beginning to think WWIII will be men vs. women.

Good for you, hope that never changes.

You realize your family is only yours because she wants it that way.....for now.

If the day comes that she no longer wants you in the picture, the fact that your family is so important to you will mean nothing. Most women will use it to destroy you.

delayed adolescence must die first and then a male can become a man

Much truth here.

The too long-can't watch........No punches pulled.  Women are the heart of the Free Shit Army.  Lose your job as a wife don't expect to get paid.  Get fired from your job as a wife.....don't expect to get paid.  Alimony and the vampires that sucked the life out of Robin Williams (former wives and the courts) is what killed him.  Wives with Alimony are whores who are getting paid for how much they hated living with you and having sex.  

He's right ya know.

The obvious ones are easy to see in advance.

I have a friend who married a woman that was wonderful.  We (his friends) even thought he had found a keeper.  Two children and eight years later, she had turned into an untrustworthy wife, and the divorce was unpleasant and expensive, at least for him.  Anyone who knew the two of them before the wedding, and for the first five or six years of the marriage would have sworn that he was one of the few who had chosen wisely.  

No shit, Sherlock. Thanks for those wise words of wisdom.

There are zero guarantees in life. You can get killed walking your doggy! Yet, you can mitigate a lot of situations by choosing wisely.

Don't walk your doggie?

Not sure where "here" is but I seriously doubt that's how it actually works.  The laws in the state where I was assraped said similar things......but the reality and practice was something completely different.   I took the debts......all of them. She got the property.....all of it......I managed to keep what she didn't steal when she cleaned out the house while I was out of town......She got the kids (and somehow child support magically doubled and became retroactive) and the alimony lottery.

This divorce/alimony/child support industry has grown into one of the biggest scams in America and is just one of a dozen wounds that is killing America. You have got to be out of your fucking mind to marry today----absolutely batshit Russian Roulette with three rounds crazy.

And men don't do the same to their wives?  I'm inclined to think they do, since in the course of my infrequent visits to Jezebel and HeartlessBitches to see what the girls are up to, I see them throwing precisely the same kind of shitfits seen here daily.

 
My wife and I started on rocky ground.  For a wide variety of reasons, neither of us were ready for a marriage (issues within ourselves, issues between each other), and certainly not ready for a marriage to each other.  It has been a very tough experience, working through these issues.  In the end, the fact that we DID work through these issues, and continue to work on these issues (for ourselves, for each other) have made us BOTH far better, happier, and healthier.  As individuals, and as a unit.  


We're a happily married couple NOT because it's been all pixie dust and unicorn tears during our marriage...we're a happily married couple because of the work we've had to put forth to keep it.  To earn this happiness.  To appreciate it.  We've seen the lengths our partner will go to, to overcome self-defeating personal issues.  To overcome core (and some would say, dysfunctional) parts of our personalities.  To see the (painful) personal changes someone will go through, to be a better spouse, creates a bond of it's own.  It's an intimacy level, a trust level, an appreciation level, we never knew.  Eventually, we learned that our "completely opposite personalities" were not a bad thing...they were complimentary, allowing the strengths in our spouses to shore up our shortcomings.  Rather than becoming angry at these "frustrating" differences, we've learned to appreciate them, respect them, even -admire- them because they combine to make Us (marriage) stronger than us (individuals).


The older I get, the more I feel this life is an exercise.  While most people feel the "point" of the exercise is to tabulate "stuff" at the end, I feel the real point is to review the decisions you made on your way.  I feel it's less about accumulation, and more about personal growth.  And very rarely does growth come about due to something coming easily or naturally.  Unfortunately, these days, people only want easy and natural.  If there's any friction, discomfort, or unhappiness, people simply want to change the geography, rather than look into themselves and see how they may have contributed to the issue, how to correct it, and how to use this information to better the rest of their lives.


And I'll be the first to say, sometimes the "till death do us part", or "divorce is wrong in God's eyes" life raft is what's needed to allow us to cross an ocean of problems.  We consider ourselves to be living a charmed life these days, and I feel it's because of the difficult times we went through, which "opened our eyes".

I've read it also, many were nothing more then tongue in cheek humor though some were likely based in fact.

I've done the same thing in the past with cooking [I DON'T bake worth a damn though], however, I have always been the much better cook [hell, do Mothers even teach their daughters to cook anymore?] then any wife or GF I have had and I suspect a few of those deliberately sabotaged meals because they didn't like to cook.  One warning sign for me now is someone telling me they "don't cook," well OK, and I'm not paying for your meal when we go out either............doesn't go over well. [and yes, I have had them over and cooked for them so it's not a one way street]

FWIW, alimony is the most evil thing ever thought up by the legal system. Split assets at time of divorce equitably and that's all the damn money she [and very occasionally he] gets, weekly or monthly stipends past that is nothing but legalized slavery.

That will be hard to find outside of a few pockets in the country.

 

Clearly, not for everyone.

And yes, sometimes bad shit happens that no one could predict. Life has no guarantees. Choosing wisely and continuing to put effort into creating and maintaining a good relationship and marriage help mitigate a lot of the risk, but life is not a risk free adventure.

My wife told me this weekend that I should buy another 1911 and not put VZ grips on it so she can shoot it. (The Operator IIs were "too sharp for [her] delicate hands.")

I see another Springer in my future.

Still wouldn't get married again.

I agree here but being masculine and getting married may be two different subjects.

 
Ayup.  "Marriage" should be a religious covenant.  No more, no less.  As this is between you, your spouse, and your God, who/where your marriage is "recognized" should be a non-issue.  This is a spiritual issue.


A "civil union" (or whatever else you want to call it), should exist on the legal side.  Taxes, property, insurance, caregiving authorizations, etc.


The two would likely be related, but not inexorably intertwined; rather, there would be a correlation, not a causation.  


Unfortunately, the word "marriage" has been applied to both, until they have been (erroneously) merged into the same thing, in the public's eye.

Choose wisely?  What a bunch of garbage that thought process is.  I can't see far enough into the future to know if I am going to accidentally stub my toe on a bed post, or if a random part on my car will break; how can one possibly "choose wisely" when dealing with an entity (man or woman) that is fluid?  You can never know if the person you are choosing will at some point cheat on you, or have a tragic life changing event that causes irrevocable mental changes yet we are supposed to choose wisely.

Let me put it another way.  The people in this thread that "chose wisely" are the ones that have been married for 20+ years (and as a side note, still not immune to the problems above) to a completely different generation of people.  Modern day people are shit, just flat out.  Men and women both.  I've met and dated women that upon first meeting and courting are perfectly normal.  One ended up in a mental hospital twice for self harm and was a raging alcoholic.  Neither of those problems showed up until several months into the relationship.  Another had two kids and only cared that she had rights to one.  Yet still had time and money to smoke pot every night and get drunk on the weekends.  That one showed colors much earlier and I got out once they showed.  My point is not "pity me" rather its to say women (since I am a guy) these days are not raised to the same standard many of the older people here are accustomed to.  This generation thinks its okay to be promiscuous under the cover of spring break.  Or act like total whores so long as they can blame it on being drunk.

Men can act just as bad, but from a marriage aspect we don't have the courts on our side.  We can't win in the law's eyes.  Why would we put ourselves out there in such a way that we could get taken through the ringer with no ability to fight it?  If a man is shitty to his wife and they get divorced the woman doesn't have to worry about losing her stuff to him.  Case in point; a good friend of mine's brother courted and dated this super sweet amazing "old fashion raised" country girl for a couple years before marrying her.  After being married for a couple years and having a son together he ended up taking three jobs to make ends meet, came home one night to find her in bed with one of her high school students (she was a teacher).  He paid for THE number one divorce lawyer in this state and ended up losing custody of their son, has visitation rights every couple of weeks and is not allowed to even DATE another girl (let alone marry) until their son is 18 (which will be another 10-12 years from today).  She cheated, he lost.  He married a girl that was "raised right" yet still lost.

Choose wisely.  Yeah, keep sticking to that.

My mother didn't teach me. She didn't like cooking, so everything came out of a jar or box, and she never took the time to teach me even the basics.

Everything I've learned has been on my own out of an effort to fix delicious food for my husband (he was raised by good southern women, and I knew that he was used to good homecooked food), but he had to suffer through the years of me learning.

Let me color this in just a bit more.  Because he was married for over 10 years she "could" get permanent alimony. Again....about half of what he made-Courts don't seem to give a shit about the fact she is educated and can or did work.

Combine Alimony and a Social Security number and there is no escape into the Nat'l forest with a rifle, a handgun, and your ammo fort.

Now there are BIGFed.gov agencies that exist simply to force compliance with Alimony. Your credit rating, driver's licence and all professional licences  as well as hunting and fishing licences are at risk. You can be jailed for up to 5 months......without a trial for contempt in some states because you refuse to pay a whore. Just sayin.

See my anecdote. There are decent girls out there. Always have been, always will be. Most guys don't bother looking for them when they're young (too busy chasing chasing tail), and by the time they get older and more mature, a lot of the nice girls have already been snapped up. And many guys self-select against them to begin with.

Women change, the first 10 years of our relationship my wife never once told me what to do, where to go, or what to spend money on.
In that time, she has become a Dentist and now makes more than I do.
I've noticed she has gotten more assertive when it comes to telling me what to do especially with money.
It doesn't happen often but often enough. I am an expert at recognizing potential power struggles, so I nip that shit in the bud HARD when it happens.
I have that abrasive, IDGAF, not taking any shit personality so I will respond with overkill.
Some more passive, go with the flow, type of guys probably wouldn't recognize this and sooner or later they have a "ball buster" on their hands.

Sad, my Mom made all us kids rotate making a meal during the week. [4 of us] Yeah we griped but it stood us in good stead later in life and I can whip up a decent meal with just about anything I can dig up in the freezer or in the pantry.

Now, would you like more green bean and hamburger casserole or just some more of the mashed taters on top?

I agree that there are decent women (and hell men) out there but like you said as time goes along the supply dries up.  It kind of goes to my point though, with a dwindling population of "decent" people men especially will quit looking.  We have the most to lose, legally and monetarily speaking.  Why put yourself through that?

Annulment.   Verify legal implications before doing it.

Laughed too as the courts can't tell you you can't date nor do they really GAF unless he/ she's injecting heroin into your veins while the dependent child is holding the TQ.

I did not read the article, and I have been married before.  It was not a bad marriage by any means and I have nothing against marriage.  But at this point in my life, it does have very little to offer me.  I think it really depends on where you are in life, and whether you're looking to raise a family.  I just don't see too many upsides to it unless the person I am marrying is bringing a lot to the table at this point in my life.  That goes for men and women.

I guess I am missing the funny part?

not saying those women can't be found, but things are different now, compared to 30 years ago.

I have been divorced for longer than that. And I don't see myself getting married again.

It isn't for most of the reasons usually stated: it is strictly a business decision.
I am not willing to risk my assets or my freedom just to get married. It simply isn't worth it.
By the way, when I say freedom, I am talking about a disgruntled woman saying I abused her and then I am convicted of domestic violence. And in a lot of cases (most cases ?) her saying it, is all that it takes. I am not willing to lose my right to own a gun because I was so bored that I couldn't stand to be alone. Shit, now we have this whole rape thing where a year after the fact someone decides that they were raped. And it's taken seriously in court.

That article uses the phrase I have been using for years: What is in it for me ?
I would think that anybody with any sense at all asks themselves this question any time they make a decision, even if it is subconsciously. If I do this, what is the upside ? How could this be a big mistake ?
If I sit down, take a piece of paper, draw a line down the center and put the upsides in one column and the downsides in the other column, I see that one column is full and the other side has a couple entries. Then I take this information and weigh it against the cost of failure and it becomes a no-brainer.
FWIW: I am way too old to have kids, so that isn't even a consideration.

This whole thing about choosing wisely is horseshit.
If it turned out great for you, you chose wisely.
If it didn't, you didn't choose wisely.
The problem is that almost everyone that gets married thinks they are choosing wisely AT THE TIME.
There is no way to predict the future.
It is like randomly picking the same card out of a deck of cards. You pull one card, shuffle, and if you pull the same card again, you chose wisely.

I really like women. I enjoy being around women. I don't use or abuse women. A woman doesn't have to be a goddess for me to find them attractive. I would love to be in a great relationship.  But all that isn't worth the potential consequences of a bad marriage.

Agreed.  But it depends on the woman. In some cases, when you keep your masculinity she'll keep the house and half your shit.  I've seen too many "nice' girls marry into money and then turn into "bitch from hell."    

Then there's the old, "why buy a cow when the milk is free."  A lot of women don't respect themselves.

Married last night?  You're supposed to be all up in that right now instead of on GD.  This won't end well...




And where are the pics?

Seriously, men need to act like real men, not peeking around corners in the house he's trying to pay for hoping his wife is in a good mood.  Beat the crap out of the bitch on the wedding night like Earnest Borgnine did with one of his many wives, actress Ethel Merman. She might get the house but she's going to get it anyway.  Here, at least you get to keep your self respect.  

GF has mentioned "The M Word" and I'm not even divorced yet.  My reply?   "Not no, but FUCK NO!"

I know you're not.  That's why I chose to reply to you rather than wasting keystrokes on one of the dozen or so habitually misogynowhining bitchmales who populate the daily LBAW threads here.

It was not my intent to impugn your objectivity on gender matters, rather to make the point that an unhealthy penchant for perfectionism in relationships is a characteristic not limited to women.  You kinda glossed over that in your earlier post.

She can post her pic if she wants to. She's a long time member here too. I call her Showgirl.

Just gotta pick right.

Been married 3 years, together for 8 and still have an amazing time together. I get laid 4 or 5 times a week, she maintains her weight and so do I, we both out each other first.

Overall the ideal marriage. I guess it helps we are both introverts and have very few friends, much less the desire to actually do anything with anyone else.

It's ok to be jealous.

Truth

Women have lots of their own issues for sure.

Men do tend to gloss over the shortcomings of their "bros" when examining why a relationship headed down the drain.

I'm fully equal opportunity though, I hate everyone.

The "Choose Wisely" stichk is like a reporter asking a presidential candidate "Knowing what we know now, should we have gone to war in Iraq?".

The only way to understand that question is with hindsight.  The correct answer is always......with the best information we had at the time.....it was the right thing to do.

One more point and then I'm done for this week.  The system (Divorce industry/Alimony/Child Support/BigGov) is broken.  They know it's broken but they absolutely do not want to fix it because it generates money and gives power to Judges, Magistrates, and organizations filled with SJW types who under normal circumstances would be scrounging through dumpsters looking for food or giving blowjobs in alleys behind auto repair shops and bars.