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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#1]
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Beautiful rifles My point is in general use the optic but don't rely on it so much that if it goes down you are fucked. There are some shooters who find it difficult to shoot with Irons and I've encountered them when I lived in TX. Get both but be familiar with optic and with irons not one or the other was the point I was trying to make. Still shopping for a Eotech as I say this 
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Nice rifle Mech! I occasionally hunt with irons to keep proficient. I can hit rock chucks and jackrabbits out to about 100-150yards or so. Nowhere near as good as with a scope, but still fun. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/roper1488/IMG_1117.jpg My point is in general use the optic but don't rely on it so much that if it goes down you are fucked. There are some shooters who find it difficult to shoot with Irons and I've encountered them when I lived in TX. Get both but be familiar with optic and with irons not one or the other was the point I was trying to make. Still shopping for a Eotech as I say this
I'm not going to be that fucked at a range, honestly. I'll just use one of the other rifles I brought with me. Or take a few minutes and swap one of my working optics. Or just use the BUIS. Or just say "Damnit", go home, and send it in for repair.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:10:04 PM EDT
[#2]
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Meh irons are great and all but suck in comparison to some sort of dot or reticle in my area of use. Sure, they never fail but I'm also not a marine on deployment, I'm simply a college kid who spends his free time raking hay, pulling a wrench, and/or shooting shit. Plus I'm not an old school operator operating operationally  The guy in this thread whose opinion matters more than most says that they've failed on him more than optics. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:11:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Sure, I think everyone should know how to use irons sights. Should one be proficient with iron sights before moving to optics? I suppose that depends on your requirements. I'd say typical police recruits probably do need to be very proficient with the iron sights on their sidearms. However, if my daughter wants to shoot daddy's scoped guns more than the iron sighted ones, I'm not going to pitch a fit.
I enjoy shooting the irons on my Yugo SKS, but my reasonable accuracy limit is about 125 yards. I'm on the downhill side of my fourth decade, so the old Mark I eyeball doesn't work like it used to. I don't have that yardage limit with the scoped Creedmoor. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:13:06 PM EDT
[#4]
My cmp rifles have irons. My carbines and pistols have red dots.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:15:06 PM EDT
[#5]
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The guy in this thread whose opinion matters more than most says that they've failed on him more than optics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh irons are great and all but suck in comparison to some sort of dot or reticle in my area of use. Sure, they never fail but I'm also not a marine on deployment, I'm simply a college kid who spends his free time raking hay, pulling a wrench, and/or shooting shit. Plus I'm not an old school operator operating operationally The guy in this thread whose opinion matters more than most says that they've failed on him more than optics. Check edit, poor wording on my part Originally |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:16:09 PM EDT
[#6]
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Check edit, poor wording on my part Originally Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh irons are great and all but suck in comparison to some sort of dot or reticle in my area of use. Sure, they never fail but I'm also not a marine on deployment, I'm simply a college kid who spends his free time raking hay, pulling a wrench, and/or shooting shit. Plus I'm not an old school operator operating operationally The guy in this thread whose opinion matters more than most says that they've failed on him more than optics. Check edit, poor wording on my part Originally Ah. Thought you were talking about irons never failing. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:18:42 PM EDT
[#7]
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What happens when the tiny stick of metal that is an iron sight breaks? I have broken a mountain of iron sights. I have never broken an ACOG or T-1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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why do you hate progress OP What happens when the tiny stick of metal that is an iron sight breaks? I have broken a mountain of iron sights. I have never broken an ACOG or T-1. I've personally sent over 150 ACOG's to DERMO/WIR and had to wait for replacements for them. My platoon had one that went down while we were at our anual qual, dude who had his go down shot like shit with irons and went back to the range with another platoon and a new ACOG. I'd say yes, some are overly dependent on their optics. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:18:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Any of the good optics out there now are more durable than irons. I'd say be functional with them, but they're just not that important, anymore.
In our lifetimes, you'll see irons grow to the point of being vestigial. They're almost there, now. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:19:35 PM EDT
[#9]
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Ah. Thought you were talking about irons never failing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh irons are great and all but suck in comparison to some sort of dot or reticle in my area of use. Sure, they never fail but I'm also not a marine on deployment, I'm simply a college kid who spends his free time raking hay, pulling a wrench, and/or shooting shit. Plus I'm not an old school operator operating operationally The guy in this thread whose opinion matters more than most says that they've failed on him more than optics. Check edit, poor wording on my part Originally Ah. Thought you were talking about irons never failing. What I mean is that they don't have a battery that is going to die. I apologize for my poor wording |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:22:01 PM EDT
[#10]
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What happens when the tiny stick of metal that is an iron sight breaks? I have broken a mountain of iron sights. I have never broken an ACOG or T-1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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why do you hate progress OP What happens when the tiny stick of metal that is an iron sight breaks? I have broken a mountain of iron sights. I have never broken an ACOG or T-1. An m16/m4 isn't supposed to be used like an electric guitar after a concert with the guitarist all hyped up on peeps and cola. I can picture it now 'rustedace just shot a target at 1000 yds with iron sights. "Look at that. He's now slamming the rifle into the ground while screaming AK's belong in a trash can." |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:24:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beautiful rifles My point is in general use the optic but don't rely on it so much that if it goes down you are fucked. There are some shooters who find it difficult to shoot with Irons and I've encountered them when I lived in TX. Get both but be familiar with optic and with irons not one or the other was the point I was trying to make. Still shopping for a Eotech as I say this
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nice rifle Mech! I occasionally hunt with irons to keep proficient. I can hit rock chucks and jackrabbits out to about 100-150yards or so. Nowhere near as good as with a scope, but still fun. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/roper1488/IMG_1117.jpg My point is in general use the optic but don't rely on it so much that if it goes down you are fucked. There are some shooters who find it difficult to shoot with Irons and I've encountered them when I lived in TX. Get both but be familiar with optic and with irons not one or the other was the point I was trying to make. Still shopping for a Eotech as I say this
I know exactly what you're saying, because in the safe right next to the XM lives this: 
It's important to learn optics, especially in today's world of HSLD stuff, but basic irons use is a must for beginners. I'm in the start with irons, move to mission specific optics but practice on your backups often because everything can fail camp. I prefer irons though, and I'm definitely a minority in that camp, I'm only 30yo. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:27:44 PM EDT
[#12]
For a big black (or bright green) circle on a white background in broad daylight, irons are fine.
For almost anything else, like a brown deer or coyote standing in brown grass in the shade when the sun is not in the perfect place, I'll take something that doesn't make the target impossible to see. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:28:30 PM EDT
[#13]
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Just because you can see your reticle doesnt mean you can see your target. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What happens if it's dark? Irons are useable for only ~8-12 hours each 24 hour period. Optics are good for any of those hours. Just because you can see your reticle doesnt mean you can see your target. 
I can see it just fine. 
ETA: that's a super shitty iTater picture. It's much clearer than that. Was less expensive than the rifle I was shooting with that night. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:31:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd rather someone learn on an optic, then shift over to irons.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:38:27 PM EDT
[#15]
As my eyes get older I am finding optics really do help out. However I do prefer low to no magnification optics.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:39:19 PM EDT
[#16]
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I can see it just fine. http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/natebedair/4C23CBE8-6A15-4374-861B-24173446E7F5_zpsqmozwpbv.jpg ETA: that's a super shitty iTater picture. It's much clearer than that. Was less expensive than the rifle I was shooting with that night. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What happens if it's dark? Irons are useable for only ~8-12 hours each 24 hour period. Optics are good for any of those hours. Just because you can see your reticle doesnt mean you can see your target.
I can see it just fine. http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc141/natebedair/4C23CBE8-6A15-4374-861B-24173446E7F5_zpsqmozwpbv.jpg ETA: that's a super shitty iTater picture. It's much clearer than that. Was less expensive than the rifle I was shooting with that night. I hate you.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 6:42:15 PM EDT
[#17]
There's nothing wrong with learning fundamentals but a new shooter might need a red dot tonight when a methhead kicks in his door at 3 am.
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Posted: 5/18/2015 7:44:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An m16/m4 isn't supposed to be used like an electric guitar after a concert with the guitarist all hyped up on peeps and cola. Wrong. |
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Posted: 5/18/2015 7:46:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An m16/m4 isn't supposed to be used like an electric guitar after a concert with the guitarist all hyped up on peeps and cola. I can picture it now 'rustedace just shot a target at 1000 yds with iron sights. "Look at that. He's now slamming the rifle into the ground while screaming AK's belong in a trash can." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: why do you hate progress OP What happens when the tiny stick of metal that is an iron sight breaks? I have broken a mountain of iron sights. I have never broken an ACOG or T-1. An m16/m4 isn't supposed to be used like an electric guitar after a concert with the guitarist all hyped up on peeps and cola. I can picture it now 'rustedace just shot a target at 1000 yds with iron sights. "Look at that. He's now slamming the rifle into the ground while screaming AK's belong in a trash can."  |
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