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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:46:46 PM EDT
[#1]
They are dreaming. I can't imagine anything other than shutting down welfare or social security that would piss off a segment of the population like some shit like this becoming law. FBHO and Fuck GM (and all the rest that think this is a good idea).
Edit. Grammar. 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:48:12 PM EDT
[#2]
But I assume putting 24" rims on your car will be still allowed under some "cultural identity" clause?
Because otherwise that's rascist! |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:54:30 PM EDT
[#3]
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:56:54 PM EDT
[#4]
DMCA strikes again, huh?
Jesus what a turd of a law. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:00:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. We don't delete their code and use our own for the most part. The best way to do it for most of us is to modify what's extant. I've been doing that very effectively for over a decade with my cars. IMO some of what we do should absolutely be covered under fair use even if we were to apply DMCA to it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:00:29 PM EDT
[#6]
If they want to do something to make dead certain I will never buy a new car ever again, and I mean never...
Go right ahead and pull this shit. Assholes. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:05:03 PM EDT
[#7]
If brakes can fail due to a software issue as mentioned in the article, that is the fault of the manufacturer for making that even a remote possibility in the first place. Last time I checked it was all still based on putting some pressure on some fluid.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:08:06 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm going to neck beard new BMW's.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:10:55 PM EDT
[#9]
For years, I've wondered when automakers were finally going to get on the bandwagon and become as dickish as technology companies.
I guess I can stop wondering. Surprised it took them this long. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:11:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they want to do something to make dead certain I will never buy a new car ever again, and I mean never... Go right ahead and pull this shit. Assholes. Pretty much. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:11:24 PM EDT
[#11]
lol
Fuck you, I'll do what I want |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:12:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If brakes can fail due to a software issue as mentioned in the article, that is the fault of the manufacturer for making that even a remote possibility in the first place. Last time I checked it was all still based on putting some pressure on some fluid. On my 2013 Toyota the car can apply full braking if it thinks you are trying to panic stop. And in other cars the car can even apply braking automatically if it senses something info front of it. That all has to be computer controlled. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:12:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they want to do something to make dead certain I will never buy a new car ever again, and I mean never... Go right ahead and pull this shit. Assholes. just curious what you think they are doing? as far as I can tell it would only involve modification of factory coding for control modules. just means the software has to be written from scratch it will become more expensive. potentially, worst case you will have to purchase a aftermarket control module (which will likely be a rebuild/ recode of a factory one) they've been trying to keep us from fiddling with software for years, and its always bypassed. I bypass software locks installing performance software all the time. I don't agree with the law, but that article is written to look like it means something else, you can still change your oil and replace your brake pads (using sub par aftermarket) parts. I make a living repairing cars, and part of it involves performance software. some of it is very good, some is very, very bad. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:13:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For years, I've wondered when automakers were finally going to get on the bandwagon and become as dickish as technology companies. I guess I can stop wondering. Surprised it took them this long. I don't know how they think they'll enforce it against the people who truly don't give a shit. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:13:17 PM EDT
[#15]
They they will make pollution taxes so high on used vehicles it will be cost prohibitive to own one.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:14:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They they will make pollution taxes so high on used vehicles it will be cost prohibitive to own one.
Fuck em. My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:15:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:15:14 PM EDT
[#18]
hey automakers, **** off, eat shit, and die. Strong message to follow.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:15:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If brakes can fail due to a software issue as mentioned in the article, that is the fault of the manufacturer for making that even a remote possibility in the first place. Last time I checked it was all still based on putting some pressure on some fluid. Disagree completely. if your software upgrade causes a issue where the ABS releases pressure to wheels it thinks are locking, that is not a fault of the manufacture. kinda like buying a factory barrel, pulling the gas block off, replacing it with a inferior gas block, not lining it up right and blaming the manufacture. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:16:30 PM EDT
[#20]
And at my last service I asked how much a brake job would be for my car. $850!!!
$850, for a fucking RAV4. I don't think so. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:16:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck em. My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. Prophetic, ain't it? 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:16:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuck em. My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They they will make pollution taxes so high on used vehicles it will be cost prohibitive to own one.
Fuck em. My uncle has a country place that no one knows about. did it used to be a farm? was that before the motor law? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:17:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? You think anyone gives a fuck now? Google EGR delete. Very very very few people outside of areas that require emissions testing give a flying rats ass about emissions controls |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:18:12 PM EDT
[#24]
fuck them and the horse they rode in on. in fact... i hope they get all mr hands'ed by the fucking horse.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:19:06 PM EDT
[#25]
this guy from the comments section nails it...its like they are forcing you to buy new cars since they expect theirs to run 200k+ miles and don't want you to do a cheap repair and get it to run 350k miles, instead they want you to buy a new car due to their greed
True. This may be new to cars, but tractor manufacturers have been using the DMCA to prevent farmers from repairing their equipment for years. Perhaps the car industry is chiefly concerned with safety but there is no doubt that for the tractor companies it is strictly greed. Their equipment is built to last decades and services is the only reoccurring revenue stream they can count on. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:19:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? all manufactures of after market software have to state is "off road use only" 
makes it legal. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:19:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Fuck you, I'll do what I want I really don't feel like tapping out a rant that would make Leo Tolstoy look succinct, so for the sake of brevity I will second the quoted post. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:20:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Wow no more cop cars then either
 .All it would take is a couple of short sighted cars makers to try enforcing their stupid idea and one to welcome them with open arms to grab their market share. What these fools fail to realise is the custom builders are who influences market trends and styling. This is a way too for them to go after aftermarket parts makers...only dealer oil filters and brake rotors, etc can be sold. What fantastic way for short sighted US automakers to hand over their markets to emerging Chinese auto makers. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:20:45 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think anyone gives a fuck now? Google EGR delete. Very very very few people outside of areas that require emissions testing give a flying rats ass about emissions controls Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? You think anyone gives a fuck now? Google EGR delete. Very very very few people outside of areas that require emissions testing give a flying rats ass about emissions controls I'm subjected to emissions testing, because of the county I live in. I have illegal modifications done to my car, by a strict reading of the law. It still passes. The problem (from their point of view, not mine) is one of enforcement. For now, anyway. The Ohio e-Check technicians have no idea what I've done, and there are no codes thrown. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:21:14 PM EDT
[#30]
If this shit goes through, it will make a lot of people criminals the next day.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:21:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all manufactures of after market software have to state is "off road use only"
makes it legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are seeking copyright protection.. I can not see how this will apply if you just delete their code and install your own. Copy right is much different than a patent. I am not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably certain the EPA would consider this tampering with OEM emissions controls. It's a mess. It's actually a mess today, even just tweaking ECU parameters (depending who you ask). I have a hunch that a lot of what we enthusiasts do is technically illegal, but (currently) just about impossible to enforce. It's a mess. Have I said that yet? all manufactures of after market software have to state is "off road use only"
makes it legal. Yeah. Wink wink. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:23:25 PM EDT
[#32]
In before you can only license your vehicle from the manufacturer, not actually own it. When it reaches end of life you are forced to upgrade to a newer model.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:23:59 PM EDT
[#33]
You can have my tune when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:25:17 PM EDT
[#34]
complete BS. and I am nor have ever been a gear head. But when I was broke as hell I did most of my own repairs
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:29:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Can't wait until you have to take your vehicle to a repair shop authorized by the car manufacturer
Dealer (double) prices for everything 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:30:52 PM EDT
[#36]
If this comes to pass, it will also mean the extinction of all independent auto repair shops, which will mean that the gov't authorized shops (dealerships) will have zero competition, and will increase prices--and waiting times-- to suit.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:31:40 PM EDT
[#37]
BTW - all of you gearheads who are filled with righteous indignation at the notion of not being legally allowed to reverse engineer something you bought and paid for, by punishment of law?
Welcome to my world. Bullshit, ain't it? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:31:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree completely. if your software upgrade causes a issue where the ABS releases pressure to wheels it thinks are locking, that is not a fault of the manufacture. kinda like buying a factory barrel, pulling the gas block off, replacing it with a inferior gas block, not lining it up right and blaming the manufacture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If brakes can fail due to a software issue as mentioned in the article, that is the fault of the manufacturer for making that even a remote possibility in the first place. Last time I checked it was all still based on putting some pressure on some fluid. Disagree completely. if your software upgrade causes a issue where the ABS releases pressure to wheels it thinks are locking, that is not a fault of the manufacture. kinda like buying a factory barrel, pulling the gas block off, replacing it with a inferior gas block, not lining it up right and blaming the manufacture. Yeah, but most people that are re flashing ECU's understand the risk, and as such don't cry to the manufacturer when their coding fails. If I alter my car, I accept the consequences. You may not think that is okay, but it is no different than me getting a Mac and finding a way to run PC software on it. I just can't blame Mac if it jacks my computer up. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:32:22 PM EDT
[#39]
LOL
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:35:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
just curious what you think they are doing? as far as I can tell it would only involve modification of factory coding for control modules. just means the software has to be written from scratch it will become more expensive. potentially, worst case you will have to purchase a aftermarket control module (which will likely be a rebuild/ recode of a factory one) they've been trying to keep us from fiddling with software for years, and its always bypassed. I bypass software locks installing performance software all the time. I don't agree with the law, but that article is written to look like it means something else, you can still change your oil and replace your brake pads (using sub par aftermarket) parts. I make a living repairing cars, and part of it involves performance software. some of it is very good, some is very, very bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If they want to do something to make dead certain I will never buy a new car ever again, and I mean never... Go right ahead and pull this shit. Assholes. just curious what you think they are doing? as far as I can tell it would only involve modification of factory coding for control modules. just means the software has to be written from scratch it will become more expensive. potentially, worst case you will have to purchase a aftermarket control module (which will likely be a rebuild/ recode of a factory one) they've been trying to keep us from fiddling with software for years, and its always bypassed. I bypass software locks installing performance software all the time. I don't agree with the law, but that article is written to look like it means something else, you can still change your oil and replace your brake pads (using sub par aftermarket) parts. I make a living repairing cars, and part of it involves performance software. some of it is very good, some is very, very bad. i get where you are coming from. my OBD1 95 Cobra is gonna get its ecu pulled for a Pro-m standalone. my 2005 GT is running a Brenspeed tune. It will be getting blown next year with both the standard CARB approved tune and a new tune for smaller pully and better match the cams/build. Oh and seeming how most of the canned CARB tunes seem to run a safe richness it seems like it kills catalytic converters left and right so there are certain instances where I would like to tune for things that can save my expensive cats or lack thereof. I drive a 2007 Tacoma as well which I guess companies like Bullydog are only just beginning to understand how to code for. and if I get a 2015 GT I am ready to have that tuned as well because it will not stay stock. Yeah i dont want a product that locks me into their narrow view of how it should run, which is meant for a stock car. If you want to void warranties and shit for mods and tunes, fine. But your dumb assed company shouldnt be able to sue me for some bullshit because I saved your tune as a backup should I need to go back to stock and reinstall it nor because I modified it. Just smells of extreme bullshit. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:35:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Freedom. I can smell it.
GM needs some really patriotic car commercials. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:36:13 PM EDT
[#42]
WTS: Pre-Ban Jeep CJ5. Mostly complete but no banned control features. $75,000...and I'll throw in the rust for free...
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:37:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow no more cop cars then either .
All it would take is a couple of short sighted cars makers to try enforcing their stupid idea and one to welcome them with open arms to grab their market share. What these fools fail to realise is the custom builders are who influences market trends and styling. This is a way too for them to go after aftermarket parts makers...only dealer oil filters and brake rotors, etc can be sold. What fantastic way for short sighted US automakers to hand over their markets to emerging Chinese auto makers. What makes you think Gov't/LE/Etc vehicles wouldn't be exempt? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:38:01 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm going to work on my car. Period.
Just try to stop me. I've got a whole garage of tools, one of them is a sledge. Also, I'll just keep fixing what I have, if that's the option provided. If they don't want my money, they don't have to have it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:38:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Just bought a 2001 Z28 with only 27k to replace my 94. Could have got a 2010-2011, but computers controlling computers controlling computers controlling heated seats.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:40:22 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On my 2013 Toyota the car can apply full brakeing if it thinks you are trying to panic stop. And in other cars the car can even apply brakeing automatically if it senses something info front of it. That all has to be computer controlled. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If brakes can fail due to a software issue as mentioned in the article, that is the fault of the manufacturer for making that even a remote possibility in the first place. Last time I checked it was all still based on putting some pressure on some fluid. On my 2013 Toyota the car can apply full brakeing if it thinks you are trying to panic stop. And in other cars the car can even apply brakeing automatically if it senses something info front of it. That all has to be computer controlled. Yea, there's no "e" in braking. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:42:37 PM EDT
[#47]
More awesomeness in the land of the free.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:43:50 PM EDT
[#48]
TL;DR
HEY FUCK YOU AND, MOST ESPECIALLY, FUCK YOUR CORPORATE LAWHORES!!! Corporate lawyers and their counterparts in PITLA should all end up on pikes with crows pecking at their not-yet-dead bodies. YOU, yes, YOU have fucked up this country to the point that we cannot recover. So, fuck you all in the ass with your Product Liability suits/concerns. BOTH groups are responsible and I hope a special place n Hell exists for you. I'd love to continue but I have to re-flash the ECU on a friend's STi to bump the HP. So FUCK OFF! TC ETA: And THIS is why I don't want to fly a fucking Airbus.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:44:32 PM EDT
[#49]
ill do as i please with my property
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:45:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But I assume putting 24" rims on your car will be still allowed under some "cultural identity" clause? Because otherwise that's rascist! Well, not to interrupt the imaginary outrage that minorities will be left out, the law they're talking about is related to software in the vehicles, not hardware. |
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