So your contention here is that a guy laying on the ground with his hands behind his back is actively resisting? Or are you just saying that if someone has, at some point in the past, ran away from the cops then they are justified in beating him regardless of what he happens to be doing when they catch him?

I am starting to wonder if it's worth it anywhere.  The media makes my job harder every day.  I am considering adjusting some of my strategies when dealing with certain people.  Maybe I will just let them go if they run or resist. It's just not worth the liability and media lynching you will receive if you have to use any type of force, no matter how justified. This is what they want, I will give it to them.

So now you're putting words in my mouth?

Point out to me where I've said that LE are justified in doing so.  Please do.

oh look a 13er.....I'm shocked.

You're correct, you didn't say that was justified. You just said there was zero chance of it happening, in response to someone pointing out an incident where it happened.

Do you really not understand the concept of irony, or are you just trying so hard to be outraged you're acting like it?

I said there was about zero chance of it happening if they followed a certain criteria.  Someone came along and pointed out a situation where something did happen, but it did not fall inside the criteria I outlined.  

I was simply pointing out that the situation he brought up didn't fall into the category I was speaking about (specifically someone who does not resist at all).  

Why is this so hard for you to understand?  

ETA:  I have a question for you.  In the specific situation that poster brought up, the one with the gentleman on the horse being beat.  Do you think he would have been beat if he had not run from police to begin with?  Or do you think the chances would have been a lot less likely?

Try not to hurt your back moving those goalposts. Someone who is lying on the ground with their hands behind their back is not actively resisting.

Did I ever say that "lying on the ground with your hands behind your back" is actively resisting?  There you go putting words in my mouth again.

ETA:  Please answer this question.  If the horse thief had not run, instead, just simply surrendering to police when he was confronted about his crimes, do you think he would have been beaten?

If he wasn't actively resisting, then it is within the parameters of your original post isn't it? You're really working hard to be outraged here.

Answer to ETA. No idea. Depending on the dept, the arresting cops could have been aligned with a rival gang and would've beat his ass anyway. Baltimore, CHicago, DC etc etc are corrupt shitholes and the public employees (whether they're cops or firefighters or transit workers) are drawn from the same population.

It isn't within the parameters of my original post.  My point was that, if you don't resist at all in your encounter with LE, your chances of being injured or killed are about zero.  

The horse thief was actively resisting for a large portion of that incident.  Because of this, there was a chase, adrenaline was flowing, and apparently some LEO's without a whole bunch of self control beat the shit out of him.

I'm not claiming those LEO's were right or justified, I'm just being a realist here.  Reality says that LEO's are pulled from the general population, therefore, you will have some shitheads who slip through the cracks.  Those shitheads probably won't be identified until they violate agency policy or the law.

The WHOLE point of my original post (for the record, my original post wasn't the one you first quoted) on this little tangent was that if "unarmed black men" were TRULY concerned about their safety, they WOULD NOT resist in any form or fashion AT ALL in their encounters with LE.  

If they followed those guidelines (those guidelines don't include running for 4 blocks then deciding to give up), their chances of being injured or killed by LE, even by a shithead cop, are about zero.

Edited with a real computer.



so, either the guy was "beaten" when arrested, or after being cuffed, took a bad fall in the back of a paddy wagon?



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I asked you if by actively resisting you meant "Had been actively resisting at some point in the past" but you chose to skip right past that and get your faux outrage on.

You're right, I must have skipped right by that.  If that was your question, then yes, actively resisting at any point during an encounter would factor into what I was saying.  

I'm still wondering what outrage you're speaking about.  I'm not outraged about anything.  All I've done is try to explain my point, which you're apparently having a hard time understanding.

You're doing a fine impersonation of it then.

ETA And, once again, I understand and (generally speaking) agree with your point. All I did was point out something that was funny and ironic. I will say though, that for certain known bad departments (generally either a big city like Shitcago that accepts cops who are gang bangers or shitty little inbred towns with good ole boys) the chances of getting beaten/killed/having evidence planted etc are good if you happen to be a member of a group (rival gangs or non-locals who don't fit in) that the cop is opposed to.

Meh, that's the problem with trying to type out a point you're trying to convey.  The little nuances tend to get lost in the text.  

If a Texas cop can kick a guy on a motorcycle who is getting off his bike...at the end of a chase where reportedly (not seen in a news article) the cop shot at the motorcycle while both were driving vehicles....then yes in my opinion.  Run from a cop...get shot in the back...or a beat down or choke hold until you die or your dog will be shot.  Or your home raided.  

Cops here are their own worst enemy.

So, a few instances (at least one of which was ruled justified) somehow now means that all instances are like that (LEO's deal with fleeing criminals 100's if not 1000's of times per day across this country).  That's your contention?  Seems legit.

Oh come on, I don't agree with the dude but now who's putting words in other people's mouths?

I don't know what the correct answer is going to be for the individual officer on patrol. But, I'm thinking if it were me wearing the uniform, I would actively police people who wanted to be policed and go home safe at night.

As the news media vilifies more and more the actions of a police officer during an event they know nothing about, I would find it very difficult to make any moves on a protected class of people and just fucking look the other way and drive on by.

We saw what happened with past cases where individuals lives were absolutely destroyed by doing the right thing, even after they were cleared by a jury of their peers or a grand jury.

My hats off to you guys on the thin blue line and hope you guys never have to make a hard decision that will get you thrown under the bus due to political correctness by saving or taking the wrong life.

I highlighted the relevant part in red.  Reading that, it would seem he was implying that if you run from the cops, the outcome will generally be one of those things, or at least there is a high probability of it being one of those things.

If that wasn't what he was attempting to say, I'd welcome being corrected.  

One more day until the Lootie Train!

Its "price of tea in China".

 

Sponsored by "Black Layers for Justice"



Where did they go to lay school?

"Black Layers for Justice..."  What's a layer?

Aw beat by like 30 seconds.

Cake eaters?

National of Islam.... Dafuq

And the National of Islam, which if I were to guess may be a jihadi labor union.

Photoshop is cereal bidness.  Learn all about layers.

We Layer now!

This.  And QFT

AND THIS

That is all true.  But there's still no excuse to wear a badge and violate the Constitution.  It applies to all citizens, or no citizens.

ETA: not commenting on this particular case, just speaking in generalities.

The arena is a Constitution Free Zone, man.

lol,  looks like fun   such diversity, such "fuck the popo",   it is all fun and games till the shooting starts...

While I won't completely discredit your opinion on the matter of police corruption and i really will allow it to be a part of shaping my overall world view. And now there are a few videos of cops not reacting the way you would like (one or two a week in millions of stops btw). I have to ask, so because someone sprayed someone's grandfather decades ago, and you were told that these people are bad for 100 years that makes it okay to irrationally hate a group and resist arrest and break the law? If so, that means you ought to be okay with white supremacists doing illegal things towards blacks, and you would have to accept people actively opposing the civil rights movement or equality in general. Bad things happening in the past doesn't excuse illegal activity. Those communities need to unravel their own bigotry and distrust of the police if they ever expect a change that and to quit committing crimes. I am not trying to say everyone they stop is guilty, but even if you aren't resisting arrest or running makes you guilty of a crime. Take your day in court. But the constant distrust is ridiculous. I have to ask you, do you believe that because all of these people you know told you about getting evidence planted they were telling the truth? You are sure it is because they didn't have drugs on them? Could those long running "urban legends" have influenced the amount you allow a small portion of interactions with law enforcement to skew your perception of how things are actually happening. You can say all you want that this is a normal thing and that the inner city black man gets no breaks, but the cop didn't show up at your door for nothing. You didn't have a warrant out for being a saint. You get pulled at a traffic stop, it's because you broke a traffic law. Don't get out, don't run, don't commit crimes, don't do drugs and I doubt you will have interaction with law enforcement. It really is that simple. And I lived in the former murder capital (per capita) in the country for a good while, never had a negative interaction with the "dirty" cops in that city. Also, do you really believe they drive around with a bag of Crack in their car?

Eta: I was not trying to imply at the top that you are bigoted btw. I was saying in general anyone that believes that.

Looks like some thugs are planning to "shut down" Baltimore tomorrow by "disrupting traffic and marching through the city streets" with over a thousand people.

Link

People that shop at Wal-Mart and bitch about the customer service.....

How about move, then.

If I lived in a third world slice of Americana, unless there were literal walls to keep me in, walking out on foot penniless sounds better than the Hell these folks claim to live in daily.

Most folks misery, if not mostly of their own making, persists through THEIR poor lifestyle choices.

In other news, new study shows those not engaged in criminal activity much less likely to encounter law enforcement........

Meanwhile young black males gun each other down on a daily basis and take a fair number of innocent bystanders with them....not a peep from the media or their community.  No protests, no rallies.  No 24/7 news coverage. No cares for the 14 year old girl killed on her birthday or the young black boy who left the gang life over her killing and was killed for his efforts to stop the violence. Instead they make martyrs out of street thugs.  This world is upside down.

Soooo, the protesters start throwing things at, and attacking, the wagon containing protesters........because they're arresting protesters.

At least they didn't burn it.......

ZFG.

And what is "Lions Out The Cage"?



 

Black Layers??  WTF, it's Lawyers.  They are pathetic.

FIFY to reflect Baltimore's inhabitants.

National of Islam? I thought it was Nation of Islam?