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Posted: 4/18/2015 7:54:50 PM EDT
Sad they didn't make it before zero.
<figure class="img"> <figcaption> © AFP / by Regine Lamothe | A replica of the French navy frigate L'Hermione, which played a key role in the American Revolution sets sail on its maiden voyage to the United States from Fouras, southwestern France on April 18, 2015 </figcaption> </figure> LA ROCHELLE (FRANCE) (AFP) - A replica of the 18th century ship that took a French general on his voyage to become a hero of the American war of independence was to set sail again Saturday, cheered off by thousands of well-wishers and President Francois Hollande. Big crowds gathered to wish "bon voyage" to the painstakingly recreated tall ship Hermione, leaving from Ile d'Aix, in southwest France, for the east coast of the United States. The French and American flags were raised on the wooden frigate and crew members made last minute preparations for their Atlantic crossing retracing the voyage 235 years ago of General Lafayette, who won fame for rallying America's rebels fighting for independence from Britain. Hollande was expected to give a speech on French-American relations. Earlier, US President Barack Obama sent a message stressing "friendship between the two countries," according to the head of the Hermione-Lafayette project, Benedict Donelly. The US consul in the nearby city of Bordeaux was to read out the message at the ceremony. Then, after a fireworks display, the ship was to set sail at 2030 GMT, with a first stop due in the Canary Islands, before continuing across the Atlantic Ocean. - Replica ship, reenacted route - Some 80 crew members will sail the three-masted 65-metre (213-feet) ship along the route to Boston made by French General Gilbert du Motier -- the Marquis de Lafayette -- to bolster revolutionaries fighting for an independent United States. Back in 1778 the original Hermione took a mere six months to build. The new replica took 17 years to construct, mobilising hundreds of craftspeople from around the world. The crew plans to make landfall on June 5 in Yorktown in Virginia, where US troops led by George Washington and French soldiers accompanied by General Lafayette scored a decisive victory over the British in 1781. "The Hermione, the ship that reunited Lafayette and Washington and sealed our freedom, sails again for America," trumpets the website promoting the reconstruction of the epic journey. The project is the brainchild of a group of history and sailing enthusiasts who two decades ago embarked on the arduous task of recreating the vessel using only 18th century shipbuilding techniques. The frigate is scheduled to make more than 10 stops in the United States as it sails up the east coast, including in Baltimore, Philadelphia and Boston. Hermione will also sail into New York Harbour just in time for July 4 independence celebrations, with an expected escort of hundreds of local yachts. Yann Cariou, a veteran sailor who has already completed seven round-the-world trips in the military and civilian navy, will captain the imposing ship. The project cost 25 million euros ($32 million), financed by more than four million visitors to the shipyard in Rochefort in southwestern France where the ship was built, as well as through crowd-funding initiatives for specific parts of the ship. It took Lafayette 38 days to cross the Atlantic, a voyage that confirmed his renown as a hero of the American Revolution. Even today, Lafayette remains a constant presence across the country he helped transform from British colony into the energetic new state that would eventually become today's superpower. At least 42 US counties and cities and hundreds of streets and squares -- including the famed Lafayette Square opposite the White House -- are named after him or after his ancestral home in France, La Grange. by Regine Lamothe http://www.france24.com/en/20150418-french-generals-historic-us-independence-ship-sails-again/ |
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looks like it is underway without sails, what kinda screw they got propelling it?
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The power of google compels you!
"The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them. An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." |
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Her sails are furled. I wonder if there's a tug somewhere? View Quote She has a wake, and I suspect an auxiliary engine. Very few, if any ships that size, carrying that number of crew/passengers, are certifiable without some sort of aux engine. There are very few people alive that could captain that ship if it lacked an engine, not to mention people to crew it. Even if the Captain knew what to do in a particular circumstance, he would also need a trained crew to make it happen. These folks don't just materialize, they are trained during long, hard, and often hazardous duty. The French, because of British blockade of French Ports, and due to most of the experienced French Naval Officer corps being "relieved of duty", never got enough experience to beat the Brits at sea. I hope to Heaven that this ship does not run into a severe storm. In any event, it's a nice gesture, and I appreciate it. |
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." View Quote Well, as long as it's for safety......... |
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Quoted: Well, as long as it's for safety......... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. |
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What, you think it should sink traditionally as well? Think about what you've said critically. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. |
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I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. It's not the weight, but the effect on the center of gravity of the ship, in this case, the additional weight of real cannon, measured in many tons, would have a dramatic effect on the rolling of the ship in heavy weather. This is aside from the proper lashing of the cannon in preparation for storms. The old phrase "loose cannon" might come to mind here. AFAIK, the Captain and crew are not exactly old hands at sailing this sort of ship, but then, who is nowadays? They will (wisely) be sailing the Atlantic Ocean during a relatively calm season. I have no doubt they will have every modern navigational aid available to them. If a storm should come up, they will certainly alter course to avoid it as much as possible, and again, given the experience level of the Captain and crew--and a new ship, no less-- this is also wise. I'm sure the Captain and crew are all experienced sailors, but this is a new ship, of a type unfamiliar to them. |
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Quoted: It's not the weight, but the effect on the center of gravity of the ship, in this case, the additional weight of real cannon, measured in many tons, would have a dramatic effect on the rolling of the ship in heavy weather. This is aside from the proper lashing of the cannon in preparation for storms. The old phrase "loose cannon" might come to mind here. AFAIK, the Captain and crew are not exactly old hands at sailing this sort of ship, but then, who is nowadays? They will (wisely) be sailing the Atlantic Ocean during a relatively calm season. I have no doubt they will have every modern navigational aid available to them. if a storm should come up, they will certainly alter course to avoid it as much as possible, and again, given the experience level of the Captain and crew--and a new ship, no less-- this is also wise. I'm sure the Captain and crew are all experienced sailors, but this is a new ship, of a type unfamiliar to them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. It's not the weight, but the effect on the center of gravity of the ship, in this case, the additional weight of real cannon, measured in many tons, would have a dramatic effect on the rolling of the ship in heavy weather. This is aside from the proper lashing of the cannon in preparation for storms. The old phrase "loose cannon" might come to mind here. AFAIK, the Captain and crew are not exactly old hands at sailing this sort of ship, but then, who is nowadays? They will (wisely) be sailing the Atlantic Ocean during a relatively calm season. I have no doubt they will have every modern navigational aid available to them. if a storm should come up, they will certainly alter course to avoid it as much as possible, and again, given the experience level of the Captain and crew--and a new ship, no less-- this is also wise. I'm sure the Captain and crew are all experienced sailors, but this is a new ship, of a type unfamiliar to them. Godspeed, you crazy sailing bastards. |
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I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. Bigger danger would be one or more of the guns breaking loose during a storm, then crushing crew members as they try to secure it. |
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I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. |
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FWIW, I don't know what cannon the Ship will carry, but it does not take a heavy, full-scale cannon to shoot a blank charge of black powder, giving a very satisfying amount of noise and smoke.
Maybe they only have a couple of cannon capable of doing so, but it would be nice if they had a full side of salute cannon. The weight would be trivial compared to real cannon, and would be very impressive to see and hear. |
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Quoted: I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. I'm talking about the actual real traditional method of being in a giant slow sail boat and getting caught by weather and not being able to make headway and getting swamped. |
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I know they don't do the turnaround for the USS Constitution until 2018, but it would really be nice if they sailed L'Hermione into Boston Harbor and have the USS Constitution do a sail around the harbor with her.
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No. I'm talking about the actual real traditional method of being in a giant slow sail boat and getting caught by weather and not being able to make headway and getting swamped. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. I'm talking about the actual real traditional method of being in a giant slow sail boat and getting caught by weather and not being able to make headway and getting swamped. This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing all the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. Perhaps this was done, but not mentioned in the original article. I would certainly hope so. |
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Quoted: FWIW, I don't know what cannon the Ship will carry, but it does not take a heavy, full-scale cannon to shoot a blank charge of black powder, giving a very satisfying amount of noise and smoke. Maybe they only have a couple of cannon capable of doing so, but it would be nice if they had a full side of salute cannon. The weight would be trivial compared to real cannon, and would be very impressive to see and hear. View Quote "The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. " |
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A glaring anachronism is the Tricolor flag. It didn't exist at the time of the American Revolution.
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Quoted: This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing al the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing al the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. ALL the time. It doesn't matter how hot shit a crew and boat is, the oceans going to fuck you up. http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-replica-18th-century-frigate-due-for-maiden-france-voyage-2014-9 They've been sailing it for awhile now, it's not like they just christened it and their shakedown is coming to America. |
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Quoted: I know they don't do the turnaround for the USS Constitution until 2018, but it would really be nice if they sailed L'Hermione into Boston Harbor and have the USS Constitution do a sail around the harbor with her. View Quote |
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This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing all the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. Perhaps this was done, but not mentioned in the original article. I would certainly hope so. View Quote New ship, built with the wood that is currently available. They probably had a lot of headaches finding the bigger pieces, so they probably had to settle for what they could find. |
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What, you think it should sink traditionally as well? Think about what you've said critically. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. My point was that much like every other aspect of life today someone, somewhere has taken it upon themselves to legislate, mandate and regulate away every possible way someone could possibly get hurt. All in the name of safety. Had the original ship builders and sailors worried as much as today's nanny types they would have never set sail past their own shore line. |
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The power of google compels you! "The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. " View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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FWIW, I don't know what cannon the Ship will carry, but it does not take a heavy, full-scale cannon to shoot a blank charge of black powder, giving a very satisfying amount of noise and smoke. Maybe they only have a couple of cannon capable of doing so, but it would be nice if they had a full side of salute cannon. The weight would be trivial compared to real cannon, and would be very impressive to see and hear. "The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. " |
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The power of google compels you! "The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. " View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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FWIW, I don't know what cannon the Ship will carry, but it does not take a heavy, full-scale cannon to shoot a blank charge of black powder, giving a very satisfying amount of noise and smoke. Maybe they only have a couple of cannon capable of doing so, but it would be nice if they had a full side of salute cannon. The weight would be trivial compared to real cannon, and would be very impressive to see and hear. "The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. " I read that. Too bad that they went that route. A broadside, even from salute cannon would be quite something. Most US replica ships of that era are so-equipped. I've been on the Oliver Hazard Perry, and the Providence, FWIW. I've fired a few naval salutes with black powder salute cannon. |
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New ship, built with the wood that is currently available. They probably had a lot of headaches finding the bigger pieces, so they probably had to settle for what they could find. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing all the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. Perhaps this was done, but not mentioned in the original article. I would certainly hope so. New ship, built with the wood that is currently available. They probably had a lot of headaches finding the bigger pieces, so they probably had to settle for what they could find. The amount of wood, as in ACRES of trees, needed to build a wooden ship would send the tree-huggers into apoplectic fits. Most replicas are built out of steel or fiberglass, made to look like wood. An added benefit of such construction is dramatically reduced maintenance. |
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This is a very cool thing for our French friends to do.
A question for USN sailors: this French ship is underway but is still flying the French ensign from the quarterdeck. Isn't it the USN rule that the colors are flown from the starboard yardarm when underway? Why the difference in tradition? Did it change over the years and this ship is just following tradition for the time of the original ship? Google and Wikipedia weren't much help. |
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Yea, even experienced crews lost ships ALL THE TIME. ALL the time. It doesn't matter how hot shit a crew and boat is, the oceans going to fuck you up. http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-replica-18th-century-frigate-due-for-maiden-france-voyage-2014-9 They've been sailing it for awhile now, it's not like they just christened it and their shakedown is coming to America. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This ship, being classed as a Frigate, in the olden days, with a trained and experienced Captain and crew would simply run before the wind, and try to steer away from the expected path of the storm. It was done hundreds of times in the past, but there are few nowadays qualified to captain and crew such an old time ship. Hence the modern improvements, such as synthetic sails, and an auxiliary engine, not to mention modern navigational aids. Assuming the hull of the ship holds up well--remember that this is a NEW ship-- the folks in the olden days would have maybe tried her out quite a bit before immediately sailing off into the sunset. Wishing al the best, I'd like to have seen this ship do a lot of sea trials near her home port (where repairs/alterations could easily be made) before seeing her crossing the Atlantic. ALL the time. It doesn't matter how hot shit a crew and boat is, the oceans going to fuck you up. http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-replica-18th-century-frigate-due-for-maiden-france-voyage-2014-9 They've been sailing it for awhile now, it's not like they just christened it and their shakedown is coming to America. Thanks for doing the research. Only an idiot would sail a brand-new ship out into the Atlantic without an adequate trials period. |
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This is a very cool thing for our French friends to do. A question for USN sailors: this French ship is underway but is still flying the French ensign from the quarterdeck. Isn't it the USN rule that the colors are flown from the starboard yardarm when underway? Why the difference in tradition? Did it change over the years and this ship is just following tradition for the time of the original ship? Google and Wikipedia weren't much help. View Quote The French ensign is being flown from the traditional stern position. |
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Quoted: My point was that much like every other aspect of life today someone, somewhere has taken it upon themselves to legislate, mandate and regulate away every possible way someone could possibly get hurt. All in the name of safety. Had the original ship builders and sailors worried as much as today's nanny types they would have never set sail past their own shore line. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: snip My point was that much like every other aspect of life today someone, somewhere has taken it upon themselves to legislate, mandate and regulate away every possible way someone could possibly get hurt. All in the name of safety. Had the original ship builders and sailors worried as much as today's nanny types they would have never set sail past their own shore line. Had the Original ship builders been able to incorporated modern technology.... Oh, wait... They designed and integrated it as soon as possible. I bet they even have those dumb compasses and nautical charts on board. ETA- Even with all the modern technology and convenience, it's no guarantee that ship won't get swallowed up crossing the Atlantic. |
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Quoted: I read that. Too bad that they went that route. A broadside, even from salute cannon would be quite something. Most US replica ships of that era are so-equipped. I've been on the Oliver Hazard Perry, and the Providence, FWIW. I've fired a few naval salutes with black powder salute cannon. View Quote |
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Let's hope they don't cross paths or they might be mistaken for the Acheron. http://www.orderofbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Aubrey-Maturin.jpg "Do you want your children growing up singing the Marseillaise?" View Quote That movie was filmed using the Rose. I was at Newport, RI when original owner, John Millar, first docked her there. I've spent many hours on the Rose. The original HMS Rose was a Brit Frigate that played havoc with the smugglers in RI before the RevWar. The repro was imperfectly built, and Millar did not think of contacting the USCG while it was being built. As a result, the repro Rose had NO aux engine, and almost zero comms or nav gear. The USCG refused to allow it to sail until such was installed, at which point Millar lost interest. It was subsequently sold to others, and eventually wound up in hands that re-constructed it to meet modern USCG standards. For an example of how the original construction of the replica Rose was messed up, check this out: The shipyard needed to emplace a LOT of ballast (dead weight) into the bottom of the hull in order to make the ship seaworthy. Instead of using the traditional (and alterable) stones, the shipyard used poured concrete. To make things far worse, they poured it on a day when the wind was blowing strongly, so that the concrete, once it hardened, gave the ship a permanent list. The repro Rose never had a happy home in RI. Some say it was because the original Rose was such a terror hereabouts. I wouldn't disagree. I saw some spooky stuff happen in connection with the repro Rose, and heard about more, while it was here. |
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I wish it was coming to the west coast. View Quote Well, the Rose is supposed to be home ported in San Diego:http://www.tallshiprose.org/. Go visit her. |
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That movie was filmed using the Rose. I was at Newport, RI when original owner, John Millar, first docked her there. I've spent many hours on the Rose. The original HMS Rose was a Brit Frigate that played havoc with the smugglers in RI before the RevWar. The repro was imperfectly built, and Millar did not think of contacting the USCG while it was being built. As a result, the repro Rose had NO aux engine, and almost zero comms or nav gear. The USCG refused to allow it to sail until such was installed, at which point Millar lost interest. It was subsequently sold to others, and eventually wound up in hands that re-constructed it to meet modern USCG standards. For an example of how the original construction of the replica Rose was messed up, check this out: The shipyard needed to emplace a LOT of ballast (dead weight) into the bottom of the hull in order to make the ship seaworthy. Instead of using the traditional (and alterable) stones, the shipyard used poured concrete. To make things far worse, they poured it on a day when the wind was blowing strongly, so that the concrete, once it hardened, gave the ship a permanent list. The repro Rose never had a happy home in RI. Some say it was because the original Rose was such a terror hereabouts. I wouldn't disagree. I saw some spooky stuff happen in connection with the repro Rose, and heard about more, while it was here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Let's hope they don't cross paths or they might be mistaken for the Acheron. http://www.orderofbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Aubrey-Maturin.jpg "Do you want your children growing up singing the Marseillaise?" That movie was filmed using the Rose. I was at Newport, RI when original owner, John Millar, first docked her there. I've spent many hours on the Rose. The original HMS Rose was a Brit Frigate that played havoc with the smugglers in RI before the RevWar. The repro was imperfectly built, and Millar did not think of contacting the USCG while it was being built. As a result, the repro Rose had NO aux engine, and almost zero comms or nav gear. The USCG refused to allow it to sail until such was installed, at which point Millar lost interest. It was subsequently sold to others, and eventually wound up in hands that re-constructed it to meet modern USCG standards. For an example of how the original construction of the replica Rose was messed up, check this out: The shipyard needed to emplace a LOT of ballast (dead weight) into the bottom of the hull in order to make the ship seaworthy. Instead of using the traditional (and alterable) stones, the shipyard used poured concrete. To make things far worse, they poured it on a day when the wind was blowing strongly, so that the concrete, once it hardened, gave the ship a permanent list. The repro Rose never had a happy home in RI. Some say it was because the original Rose was such a terror hereabouts. I wouldn't disagree. I saw some spooky stuff happen in connection with the repro Rose, and heard about more, while it was here. What are some of the stories if you don't mind? |
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Do the Brits have any seaworthy tall ships? They could ambush and take her as prize.
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What are some of the stories if you don't mind? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Let's hope they don't cross paths or they might be mistaken for the Acheron. http://www.orderofbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Aubrey-Maturin.jpg "Do you want your children growing up singing the Marseillaise?" That movie was filmed using the Rose. I was at Newport, RI when original owner, John Millar, first docked her there. I've spent many hours on the Rose. The original HMS Rose was a Brit Frigate that played havoc with the smugglers in RI before the RevWar. The repro was imperfectly built, and Millar did not think of contacting the USCG while it was being built. As a result, the repro Rose had NO aux engine, and almost zero comms or nav gear. The USCG refused to allow it to sail until such was installed, at which point Millar lost interest. It was subsequently sold to others, and eventually wound up in hands that re-constructed it to meet modern USCG standards. For an example of how the original construction of the replica Rose was messed up, check this out: The shipyard needed to emplace a LOT of ballast (dead weight) into the bottom of the hull in order to make the ship seaworthy. Instead of using the traditional (and alterable) stones, the shipyard used poured concrete. To make things far worse, they poured it on a day when the wind was blowing strongly, so that the concrete, once it hardened, gave the ship a permanent list. The repro Rose never had a happy home in RI. Some say it was because the original Rose was such a terror hereabouts. I wouldn't disagree. I saw some spooky stuff happen in connection with the repro Rose, and heard about more, while it was here. What are some of the stories if you don't mind? It was a long time ago, and I'm not much of a storyteller. Let's just say this: There was a lot of weird stuff that happened to that ship while she was in RI waters. Most of it trivial, small stuff, but some of it that was way out of the normal course of events. As far as that ship, here in RI goes, everything that could possibly go wrong went far wrong, and then some. It wasn't like ghosts appearing, but some say the "curse" word, and those that remember and know of the history, nod their heads in agreement. John Millar and his wife fled RI after a very personal and brutal crime was inflicted on them. More I will not say, but that ship was never meant to be back in these waters. The Rose, as a ship, seems to do better the farther away from RI she gets. I hope I never see her in these waters again. |
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The French ensign is being flown from the traditional stern position. View Quote Yes, the ensign is in the correct position for the time, but it's the wrong flag. This painting from 1780 shows what a French ship in battle would have looked like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ensigns#/media/File:White_ensign_Battle_martinique_1779_img_9388.jpg |
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Yes, the ensign is in the correct position for the time, but it's the wrong flag. This painting from 1780 shows what a French ship in battle would have looked like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ensigns#/media/File:White_ensign_Battle_martinique_1779_img_9388.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
The French ensign is being flown from the traditional stern position. Yes, the ensign is in the correct position for the time, but it's the wrong flag. This painting from 1780 shows what a French ship in battle would have looked like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ensigns#/media/File:White_ensign_Battle_martinique_1779_img_9388.jpg It's the correct flag. The ship is sailing by the modern French crowd, and flying the current French ensign. Absolutely correct. If the ship was engaged in some movie portrayal, or some dedicated re-enactment, the correct, modern ensign might be temporarily replaced by something else. Normally, the ship would fly the French Tricolor, as shown in the pic above. |
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Vive la France! View Quote Viva Liberte https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHKNPFav2E4 Skip to the 17 second mark. |
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It's not the weight, but the effect on the center of gravity of the ship, in this case, the additional weight of real cannon, measured in many tons, would have a dramatic effect on the rolling of the ship in heavy weather. This is aside from the proper lashing of the cannon in preparation for storms. The old phrase "loose cannon" might come to mind here. AFAIK, the Captain and crew are not exactly old hands at sailing this sort of ship, but then, who is nowadays? They will (wisely) be sailing the Atlantic Ocean during a relatively calm season. I have no doubt they will have every modern navigational aid available to them. If a storm should come up, they will certainly alter course to avoid it as much as possible, and again, given the experience level of the Captain and crew--and a new ship, no less-- this is also wise. I'm sure the Captain and crew are all experienced sailors, but this is a new ship, of a type unfamiliar to them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The power of google compels you! "The original plans have been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks have been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections are fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for safety reasons. Hemp rigging will be used, but the sails will be synthetic for strength and to allow a smaller crew to handle them.An engine will be used for safety, and electric generators for lighting and basic amenities." Well, as long as it's for safety......... Think about what you've said critically. I seriously doubt the additional weight of actual cannon would sink her. It's not the weight, but the effect on the center of gravity of the ship, in this case, the additional weight of real cannon, measured in many tons, would have a dramatic effect on the rolling of the ship in heavy weather. This is aside from the proper lashing of the cannon in preparation for storms. The old phrase "loose cannon" might come to mind here. AFAIK, the Captain and crew are not exactly old hands at sailing this sort of ship, but then, who is nowadays? They will (wisely) be sailing the Atlantic Ocean during a relatively calm season. I have no doubt they will have every modern navigational aid available to them. If a storm should come up, they will certainly alter course to avoid it as much as possible, and again, given the experience level of the Captain and crew--and a new ship, no less-- this is also wise. I'm sure the Captain and crew are all experienced sailors, but this is a new ship, of a type unfamiliar to them. I seriously doubt that they will need the cannon during the journey so there is no reason they could not be lashed for storms before the ship even leaves port. They also have no need for a full magazine of powder and shot. If your going to go to all that trouble to make a historic ship do it right. The original was a WARSHIP it had real fully functional cannon. |
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This is a very cool thing for our French friends to do. A question for USN sailors: this French ship is underway but is still flying the French ensign from the quarterdeck. Isn't it the USN rule that the colors are flown from the starboard yardarm when underway? Why the difference in tradition? Did it change over the years and this ship is just following tradition for the time of the original ship? Google and Wikipedia weren't much help. View Quote IIRC you fly the ensign from the gaff when underway. If no gaff then the yardarm. |
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