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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:15:40 PM EDT
[#1]
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move?
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#2]
There is a duty to protect them, even from themselves.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:20:28 PM EDT
[#3]
I was under the impression whenever a new prisoner enters the state system they are all on some form of "Watch" now that the dust has settled and they are going to be in for a long time, or in his case, life.
New prisoners may get a little squirrely, so they try to keep an eye on them for a little while as they go through that particular state's version of a induction center (i'm sure there is a better word to describe that function). I don't know what other states do, but, in PA our newbie prison is at Camp Hill, where they go to be in-processed and evaluated, placed in a classification category, given instructions on how to be a good prisoner (and given the handbook on rules and regs), then off to another location they go. (Usually) |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:21:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Because, like it or not, the prison is responsible for the prisoner. If he gets sick, he goes to the hospital. If he kills himself, an investigation is launched to determine if it was avoidable and what responsibility the prison had.
Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:22:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? This. There is a duty of care for the lives of convicts/inmates and this includes prevention of suicide. No shortage of civil liability arises from failure to prevent or detect a suicide. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:22:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because, like it or not, the prison is responsible for the prisoner. If he gets sick, he goes to the hospital. If he kills himself, an investigation is launched to determine if it was avoidable and what responsibility the prison had. Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. QFT |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:22:39 PM EDT
[#7]
If he's on suicide watch hes naked with only a smock and an officer sitting infront of him 24/7 he's not doing shit
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:25:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? I understand his fans may be upset if offs himself, but I'm asking from a more philosophical point in general about any scumbag hardcore prisoner. I'm don't think someone who is caught with weed should die, but a murderer or other violent criminal, let them die if they wish. Save us some money. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:27:20 PM EDT
[#9]
I guess my question was answered.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:30:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Prisoner suicide is a great money-saver for the taxpayers.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:32:25 PM EDT
[#11]
B/c if you didn't prevent them from committing suicide, there would be a whole lot of "questionable" suicides in prison.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:32:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand his fans may be upset if offs himself, but I'm asking from a more philosophical point in general about any scumbag hardcore prisoner. I'm don't think someone who is caught with weed should die, but a murderer or other violent criminal, let them die if they wish. Save us some money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? I understand his fans may be upset if offs himself, but I'm asking from a more philosophical point in general about any scumbag hardcore prisoner. I'm don't think someone who is caught with weed should die, but a murderer or other violent criminal, let them die if they wish. Save us some money. I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but to answer your question, if we let prisoners kill themselves there will always be some bed-wetter somewhere in the family to bring a lawsuit. I don't think philosophy plays a role in the discussion. ETA: Also this. Quoted:
B/c if you didn't prevent them from committing suicide, there would be a whole lot of "questionable" suicides in prison. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:33:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? Absolutely whenever an inmate suicides in jail there is always a wrongful death lawsuit (due to negligence of the correctional staff) filed by the "grief stricken" family, usually for mufti-million dollar sums. The lawsuits and in many cases out of court settlements cost the taxpayers a shit ton of money. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:33:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Suicide prevention = litigation prevention.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:34:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he's on suicide watch hes naked with only a smock and an officer sitting infront of him 24/7 he's not doing shit Haha. I read that as he only has a sock. I was like what so he can jerk off? 
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:37:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. Right ... and "They're human beings." Who cares about their victims? We have to protect the guy who took the victim's life, because "Every life is important." I say "horseshit". |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:39:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely whenever an inmate suicides in jail there is always a wrongful death lawsuit (due to negligence of the correctional staff) filed by the "grief stricken" family, usually for mufti-million dollar sums. The lawsuits and in many cases out of court settlements cost the taxpayers a shit ton of money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? Absolutely whenever an inmate suicides in jail there is always a wrongful death lawsuit (due to negligence of the correctional staff) filed by the "grief stricken" family, usually for mufti-million dollar sums. The lawsuits and in many cases out of court settlements cost the taxpayers a shit ton of money. Makes sense. Well it's not what I think is right, but I understand. I don't believe everyone who enters the penal system should be killed, but I know if I was looking at life in prison someone would be doing me a favor if they strangled me to death. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:42:00 PM EDT
[#18]
They should give out cyanide tablets at the commissary. If some tires of a life ruined by crime I can see how it would be in everyone's interest to let him end that life.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:42:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense. Well it's not what I think is right, but I understand. I don't believe everyone who enters the penal system should be killed, but I know if I was looking at life in prison someone would be doing me a favor if they strangled me to death. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:46:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was under the impression whenever a new prisoner enters the state system they are all on some form of "Watch" now that the dust has settled and they are going to be in for a long time, or in his case, life. New prisoners may get a little squirrely, so they try to keep an eye on them for a little while as they go through that particular state's version of a induction center (i'm sure there is a better word to describe that function). I don't know what other states do, but, in PA our newbie prison is at Camp Hill, where they go to be in-processed and evaluated, placed in a classification category, given instructions on how to be a good prisoner (and given the handbook on rules and regs), then off to another location they go. (Usually) In 1989, they burned Camp Hill to the ground. Many inmates were shipped off to Fort Gordon, GA and placed in an old military stockade for a year on lock down. Not allowed to leave their cells without 3 staff members with clubs escorting them to a rec yard and watched by guards on the roof armed with shotguns. Staff worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for at least 5 weeks on duty with no days off. Wish they all would have committed suicide. I needed a day off to sleep. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:46:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
After reading that Aaron Hernandez is on a suicide watch, I was thinking, would it not be a positive thing for taxpayers if he kills himself? They are not saying why they placed him on a watch. I can understand people may want him to "suffer" by living a long life behind bars, however I understand there is quite a cost to housing and feeding prisoners. I'm not sure how much he will "suffer" even. Obviously this is not the first time I thought of this. I also know there are people who earn their living from the penal system, who like to see the prisons filled. However I as a taxpayer would like to see my money spent elsewhere, or of course I would like to keep my money. No because while they are in prison, the are wards of the state essentially, so if he kills himself his family can sue to shit out of all involved including the state for not preventing him from killing himself. It's stupid but that's the way our I'll sue you for anything society works. The state, the warden, the correctional officers would also be sued if another inmate killed him. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:47:37 PM EDT
[#22]
I think that anyone sent to prison should be given the option to commit suicide.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:51:13 PM EDT
[#23]
The prisoners should be able to sign a waiver, make a video stating it was their intent, and be able to off themselves with no liability to anyone.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 3:57:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prisoners should be able to sign a waiver, make a video stating it was their intent, and be able to off themselves with no liability to anyone. A logical statement. And coming from a Patriots fan.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:08:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right ... and "They're human beings." Who cares about their victims? We have to protect the guy who took the victim's life, because "Every life is important." I say "horseshit". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. Right ... and "They're human beings." Who cares about their victims? We have to protect the guy who took the victim's life, because "Every life is important." I say "horseshit". Its not "Every life is important", its the responsibility that the state assumes. I know its cool and all to be like "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" but that is only good for T-shirt sales, not reality. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:09:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Prisoner suicide is a great money-saver for the taxpayers. No it's not. When the family sues ( and they will sue) it costs a lot more for attorneys and possible judgements than keeping them alive ever will. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:10:47 PM EDT
[#27]
It is because the prisoner is in their "care and custody", and as a result, they have to even protect them from themselves. In the long run it is about reducing their exposure to civil liability, because someone will probably try and sue them if they don't protect the prisoner.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:13:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prisoners should be able to sign a waiver, make a video stating it was their intent, and be able to off themselves with no liability to anyone. It could be argued that anyone should have that right, in or out of prison. The sticking point is competency. According to a lot of legal definitions, the desire to harm yourself automatically makes you incompetent to make decisions for yourself. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:15:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand his fans may be upset if offs himself, but I'm asking from a more philosophical point in general about any scumbag hardcore prisoner. I'm don't think someone who is caught with weed should die, but a murderer or other violent criminal, let them die if they wish. Save us some money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? I understand his fans may be upset if offs himself, but I'm asking from a more philosophical point in general about any scumbag hardcore prisoner. I'm don't think someone who is caught with weed should die, but a murderer or other violent criminal, let them die if they wish. Save us some money. Lawsuits cost a lot. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:31:56 PM EDT
[#30]
the inmates sentence is imposed by the courts and not the prisons. When an inmate is sentence to a term in prison it is the corrections department's obligation to see that the courts
sentence is followed to the best of the their ability. That means keeping the inmate alive as best as they can so they can serve their sentence out. Prisons systems are under obligation to follow the courts sentence. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:41:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The State has determined that they will incarcerate someone, they assume liability. Its not "Every life is important", its the responsibility that the state assumes. I know its cool and all to be like "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" but that is only good for T-shirt sales, not reality. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. Right ... and "They're human beings." Who cares about their victims? We have to protect the guy who took the victim's life, because "Every life is important." I say "horseshit". Its not "Every life is important", its the responsibility that the state assumes. I know its cool and all to be like "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" but that is only good for T-shirt sales, not reality. I'm really not arguing either side, I guess. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't give a big, hairy rat's ass if he, or any other one, committed suicide (which, incidentally is not a verb) while in prison, or anywhere else. I do not see it as a loss. |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 4:51:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm really not arguing either side, I guess. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't give a big, hairy rat's ass if he, or any other one, committed suicide (which, incidentally is not a verb) while in prison, or anywhere else. I do not see it as a loss. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. Right ... and "They're human beings." Who cares about their victims? We have to protect the guy who took the victim's life, because "Every life is important." I say "horseshit". Its not "Every life is important", its the responsibility that the state assumes. I know its cool and all to be like "Kill'em all, let God sort'em out" but that is only good for T-shirt sales, not reality. I'm really not arguing either side, I guess. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't give a big, hairy rat's ass if he, or any other one, committed suicide (which, incidentally is not a verb) while in prison, or anywhere else. I do not see it as a loss.  |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 7:17:58 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 1989, they burned Camp Hill to the ground. Many inmates were shipped off to Fort Gordon, GA and placed in an old military stockade for a year on lock down. Not allowed to leave their cells without 3 staff members with clubs escorting them to a rec yard and watched by guards on the roof armed with shotguns. Staff worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for at least 5 weeks on duty with no days off. Wish they all would have committed suicide. I needed a day off to sleep. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was under the impression whenever a new prisoner enters the state system they are all on some form of "Watch" now that the dust has settled and they are going to be in for a long time, or in his case, life. New prisoners may get a little squirrely, so they try to keep an eye on them for a little while as they go through that particular state's version of a induction center (i'm sure there is a better word to describe that function). I don't know what other states do, but, in PA our newbie prison is at Camp Hill, where they go to be in-processed and evaluated, placed in a classification category, given instructions on how to be a good prisoner (and given the handbook on rules and regs), then off to another location they go. (Usually) In 1989, they burned Camp Hill to the ground. Many inmates were shipped off to Fort Gordon, GA and placed in an old military stockade for a year on lock down. Not allowed to leave their cells without 3 staff members with clubs escorting them to a rec yard and watched by guards on the roof armed with shotguns. Staff worked 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for at least 5 weeks on duty with no days off. Wish they all would have committed suicide. I needed a day off to sleep. As of 2006 some of those inmates involved in the Camp Hill Riots were still in the hole from what I can remember being briefed when i attended the state corrections academy back then. Lot of pissed of corrections/state police guys to this day because of that mess. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 3:32:06 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a duty to protect them, even from themselves. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile this J- |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 3:36:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? This. Family would sue and get a payout. Damned if you do and don't. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 3:39:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Suicide prevention = litigation prevention. perfect answer |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:13:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
B/c if you didn't prevent them from committing suicide, there would be a whole lot of "questionable" suicides in prison. QFT |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:20:42 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
After reading that Aaron Hernandez is on a suicide watch, I was thinking, would it not be a positive thing for taxpayers if he kills himself? They are not saying why they placed him on a watch. I can understand people may want him to "suffer" by living a long life behind bars, however I understand there is quite a cost to housing and feeding prisoners. I'm not sure how much he will "suffer" even. Obviously this is not the first time I thought of this. I also know there are people who earn their living from the penal system, who like to see the prisons filled. However I as a taxpayer would like to see my money spent elsewhere, or of course I would like to keep my money. 
Believe me, if there is one thing I would love it would be to have less inmates to deal with. Maybe those up the chain of command don't feel the same way but for the rank and file correctional employee trying to work their way into a decent post, we're all pretty much miserable as fuck and dread every god damn day in whatever shithole institution we work at. If you want to see your money spent elsewhere maybe we should just let them all go, then I won't have to worry about spending 8-16 hours a day alone, on a floor with 50+ rapists and murderers. Also if we just let inmates off themselves you would be spending a lot more of your tax money to their families in court than the correctional department spends on holding 1 inmate for a life sentence. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:48:06 AM EDT
[#39]
Average inmate cost anywhere from 45-70K / year (depending on what study you want to believe), I think it is on the higher end of that range. The problem with "allowing" a suicide is, there is a duty to protect the inmate (care, custody & control). If an inmate dies, then the agency will be sued for negligence and lose a big chunk of money
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:50:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Everyone of them should be locked in a room with a pistol containing 1 round for 3 days with no human interaction. An opt out option if you will.
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Posted: 4/19/2015 6:30:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. There is a duty of care for the lives of convicts/inmates and this includes prevention of suicide. No shortage of civil liability arises from failure to prevent or detect a suicide. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: maybe because of the shitstorm the prison would be in for not making any attempts to prevent his suicide. CYA move? This. There is a duty of care for the lives of convicts/inmates and this includes prevention of suicide. No shortage of civil liability arises from failure to prevent or detect a suicide. Which is bullshit, because IME the successful ones don't give any indication are are rather devious in their execution of the deed (Forgive the pun) |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 6:33:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Lots of paperwork involved. Nobody has time for that!
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Posted: 4/19/2015 6:34:16 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a duty to protect them, even from themselves. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 7:05:17 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because, like it or not, the prison is responsible for the prisoner. If he gets sick, he goes to the hospital. If he kills himself, an investigation is launched to determine if it was avoidable and what responsibility the prison had. Its easy to say "Fuck'em, they're in prison" but this isn't the third world. Here prisoners kill themselves by shooting themselves multiple times in the head. Had a drug dealer do that who came after being warned not to return. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 7:16:57 AM EDT
[#46]
He probabily said something in regards to harming himself. He played in the NFL, lived a lavish thug lifestyle.... Then sent to prison for the rest of his life.
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Posted: 4/19/2015 7:18:57 AM EDT
[#47]
I leave a fucking 10 foot length of rope on their bed for each new prisoner. Have at it snoogums.
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Posted: 4/19/2015 11:48:21 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe those up the chain of command don't feel the same way but for the rank and file correctional employee trying to work their way into a decent post, we're all pretty much miserable as fuck and dread every god damn day in whatever shithole institution we work at. If you want to see your money spent elsewhere maybe we should just let them all go, then I won't have to worry about spending 8-16 hours a day alone, on a floor with 50+ rapists and murderers. Also if we just let inmates off themselves you would be spending a lot more of your tax money to their families in court than the correctional department spends on holding 1 inmate for a life sentence. The above is the reason I have never understood why folks choose corrections as a career. Why did you? |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 12:04:28 PM EDT
[#49]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz3PhWFhA3I
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Posted: 4/19/2015 12:09:58 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A logical statement. And coming from a Patriots fan.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The prisoners should be able to sign a waiver, make a video stating it was their intent, and be able to off themselves with no liability to anyone. A logical statement. And coming from a Patriots fan.
Were. Very logical that's why we support the best team. |
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