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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:56:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Went to school with Tim and graduated with his sister. They are both very intelligent and very political / anti-government. I have no doubt that he carried out the bombing.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:58:26 AM EDT
[#2]
What is the official word on whatever videos that were captured by whatever cameras (ATM, surveillance/security, weather, traffic, etc.) that morning?
Are the tapes available? Have they gone missing? If they are available, what would be the harm in making them publicly available? And I say that in a "sunlight is a good disinfectant" sorta way. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:36:09 AM EDT
[#3]
I haven't read this whole thread but I know not to believe every witness. Hell, I have been on simple car accidents where multiple witnesses have sworn they saw something that in reality could have never happened.
That being said, I do believe that the .gov just sucks at investigating anything this complicated. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:23:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the official word on whatever videos that were captured by whatever cameras (ATM, surveillance/security, weather, traffic, etc.) that morning? Are the tapes available? Have they gone missing? If they are available, what would be the harm in making them publicly available? And I say that in a "sunlight is a good disinfectant" sorta way.  As of the blast itself, the FBI maintains that there's no video of the bomb blast itself. The manager of the Murrah building testified that the security camera of the Murrah building that were pointed towards where the truck was parked hadn't worked for two years. A cleaner, loan company and another business had cameras that would have seen the explosion or the moments leading up to it but the owner of the building for those businesses said they were all dummy cameras. Cameras to the south on the courthouse were operational but weren't recording, they just went to monitors. Obviously some people will choose not to accept that answer but that's the official word that has been put out there. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 12:47:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Nothing to see here folks. Just a lone bomber, white, militia, Christian, veteran, gun owner who should have had his library book check out habits more closely monitored by the ministry of interior security.
Don't listen to all those eye witnesses who saw numerous Middle Eastern males associating with Terry Nichols (wait, I thought it was just McVeigh?). Don't pay attention to the coincidence that the bombing followed the Hezbollah VBIED template that had been used throughout the 1980's and 1990's. You can trust the FBI and ATF's testimony in court on this one. Sure, they've made a few minor mistakes in the past, but they would never allow that to affect their integrity in this case, especially with the solid chain of command they had at the time under William Jefferson Blythe III's Justice Department, and the younger Hillary Rodham working closely with high level decisions normally reserved for the President, NSC, DOJ, and key policy makers. Don't listen to anyone who suggest something different than what is told to you by official court testimony (not the thousands of pages of sealed documents-ignore those, they aren't really relevant). Anyone who brings up points that don't support the government's final statements on this event are kooks, conspiracy theorists, and loons who think everything is a conspiracy. They don't have all the facts, and we have provided you the important ones that make everything easy for you to understand. All the local Oklahoman's who might tell you otherwise have just bought into kook conspiracy theories, and don't really know what they saw, are unreliable witnesses, rednecks, white trash, local yocals who lack the intelligence and experience that the professional in Washington D.C. have at their disposal. So feel free to remember this evil act of white power domestic terrorism as we have explained it to you, and don't deviate from the story we have worked so hard to provide you. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 1:09:32 PM EDT
[#6]
One has to wonder how did Nichols or McVeigh get in with Middle Eastern terrorists? Nichols and Mcveigh just happened to hook up with Al-Qaeda while migrating from Arizona to Michigan, put out a wanted ad "bombmaker needed"? How did Nichols meet up with the number 2 most wanted terrorist guy and get in with the group?
The other thing to wonder is what were the Middle Easterners who were hooking up with Nichols doing in Oklahoma? What was the purpose for them to hang around? McVeigh and Nichols clearly gathered the materials for the bomb (numerous people reported that they sold ammonium nitrate, racing fuel, chemical drums to the two of them), they were involved with the manufacturing of the bomb (McVeigh was covered with ANFO and TNT when his clothes he was wearing was tested), McVeigh drove the bomb, etc. Why would this terrorist cell have a bunch of people hanging around, acting all suspicious? There is no doubt that some people reported seeing Nichols or McVeigh hanging around with numerous Middle Eastern types. In the days that followed there were numerous reports of McVeigh sightings, and once Nichols had been identified and arrested reported sightings of him started to happen as well. This was of course after weeks of extensive coverage and everyone being glued to the media reports. There were reported sightings of McVeigh that contradicted each other, one woman said she saw McVeigh somewhere but he had red hair at the time. The maid of the motel that they frequented testified that she saw McVeigh and John Doe Number 2 with the Ryder truck in the parking lot of the motel, the problem was the Ryder truck wasn't rented yet at the time she said she saw them. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 1:31:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read that book shortly after I married my (brown) wife. It was a good reminder that there literally are people in the world who would happily kill me for marrying outside my race. I burned the fucking thing after I read it however. Same here, I read The Turner Diaries during McVeigh's trial, I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I burned it after reading, lest someone else read it and be influenced by it. I'm not for censorship, but some books just need burnin', and this was one of those. My former roommate printed off a bootleg version...he wanted to see what it was all about. I found it on the coffee table, read half a paragraph, handed it back to him and told him that in addition to being tripe, the writing style was awful. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 2:12:38 PM EDT
[#8]
An ANFO truck bomb follows a pretty standard format, in regards to how the bomb is constructed, the method it's transported, etc.
Hezbollah typically employed suicide bombers to drive the truck and detonate it, such as seen in the barracks bombing in Beriut, or the US embassy bombings in Africa. Obviously that is not the case with the OKC Bombing. True, the WTC bombing of 1993 used a truck bomb (built with different materials, not ANFO) where they didn't use a suicide bomber (and here we're talking Islamic Jihadists in general, not Hezbollah obviously). However, the IRA used an ANFO truck bomb at Bishopsgate in 1993, certainly without help from "numerous Middle Eastern men." Just using an ANFO truck bomb (or in the case of OKC, ANNM) doesn't mean it followed the "hezbellah footprint." |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 2:50:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about the elevator doors in the Murrah Building? Ahh yes, the elevators, from one of which the heroic ATF agent escaped, after the multi-story free-fall, then proceeding to help in rescuing other victims of the bombing. 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:20:52 PM EDT
[#10]
The biggest focal points the FBI doesn't know about now due to generational changeover, and Clinton Admin orders at the time are:
The Palestinian property manager, Samir Khalil, whose wife died in the Murrah Building bombing, who he never reported her death until prodded to do so. The people he employed, including Al Hussaini, who matched the description of John Doe #2 to a T, including the Salman Pak tattoo on his arm. The fact that Dr. Samir Khalil owned Samara Properties and the Mazda pick up truck had been seen there by several eye witnesses, including employees of Samir. The fact that Samir employed numerous Middle Eastern ex-pats who were witnessed cheering when the bombing took place. The fact that Al Hussaini was recognized by the 2 FBI agents that Jayna Davis showed the video to. She had started following leads from the case per instructions from her supervisor, and ended up at the business of Dr. Samir, a Federal felon convict who had ties to Yasser Arafat's PLO back in Palestine, where he had immigrated from. She hired a PI the station used to do surveillance on Samir's business, and one of the men matched John Doe #2's description. That is where Al Hussaini comes into the picture. He later left OKC to live in the Boston area, and was working for 2 Iraqi brothers who managed a food services contract for Boston Logan International. According to 1997 medical records produced during his federal suit, Alhussaini said he had worked for a while at Boston's Logan Airport (where two of the planes were hijacked on Sept. 11). Quoting from those records, Alhussaini first told his psychiatrist that he had quit his airport job because, "If anything happens there, I will be a suspect." However, he later told his doctor that he "wanted to look for another job because he feels unsafe in the environment he works in, the airport, given the recent events involving his being previously suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma bombing."
Alhussaini's specific job at the airport was never identified. I contacted the Massachusetts Port Authority, which oversees Logan, to obtain dates of employment. A spokesperson said the agency would not release any information. During the course of her investigation, Davis made contact with Yossef Bodansky, executive director of the 13-year-old Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. Bodansky told Davis the task force had warned of an impending Islamic-sponsored terrorist attack in America's heartland back in 1995. On Feb. 27, 1995, the task force had issued its first confidential warning to federal agencies that Islamic terrorists "may soon strike Washington D.C., specifically the Capitol and the White House." This confidential alert, which he said was quietly distributed to federal intelligence agencies and law enforcement, claimed the attacks were to begin after March 21, 1995. "Striking inside the U.S. is presently a high priority for Iran," stated the warning. The alert also stated that upcoming terrorist strikes might be directed against "airports, airlines and telephone systems." In light of Sept. 11, it was a telling note. On March 3, 1995, the task force issued an update. This "super-sensitive" alert stated there was a "greater likelihood the terrorists would strike at the heart of the U.S." Bodansky also told Davis that after the truck bombing, he reviewed intelligence data that confirmed, "Oklahoma City was on the list of potential targets." Bodansky gave Davis copies of the task force's original alert and some of his confidential notes detailing the update and Oklahoma City's target status. His material notes an independent warning from Israeli intelligence a month before the bombing. The warning indicated a terrorist attack was impending and that "lilly whites" would be activated. Lilly whites, Bodansky writes, were people without any background or police records who would not be suspected members of a terrorist group. From Glenn Beck's summary and follow-up on Jayna Davis' work on the case. The Middle Eastern Connection Keep in mind Jayna Davis' work was done before Glenn Beck's National TV career, which didn't begin until 2006. Still think McVeigh and Nichols acted alone? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:22:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The official explanation of how Nichols and McVeigh constructed the device is a pathetic joke as well. The most detailed description of how it was built, where it was built, and who built it is in Jayna Davis' book, The Third Terrorist. Nobody in DC can admit what really transpired, because it opens a whole can of worms as to why the FBI has been allowing foreign terrorists to basically run free since the 1980's, to include operating training camps on Long Island, advising ME cells on how to attack critical US targets, and then setting up patsy fall guys to be paraded on TV after selling them fake bomb components. There is no way the details in The Third Terrorist were just pulled from a hat. Jayna's book is horrible. You can tell it is written by someone who has no idea how to write a book nor narrate a story, |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:31:21 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jayna's book is horrible. You can tell it is written by someone who has no idea how to write a book nor narrate a story, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The official explanation of how Nichols and McVeigh constructed the device is a pathetic joke as well. The most detailed description of how it was built, where it was built, and who built it is in Jayna Davis' book, The Third Terrorist. Nobody in DC can admit what really transpired, because it opens a whole can of worms as to why the FBI has been allowing foreign terrorists to basically run free since the 1980's, to include operating training camps on Long Island, advising ME cells on how to attack critical US targets, and then setting up patsy fall guys to be paraded on TV after selling them fake bomb components. There is no way the details in The Third Terrorist were just pulled from a hat. Jayna's book is horrible. You can tell it is written by someone who has no idea how to write a book nor narrate a story, I didn't get that impression at all. It's not a Harry Potter book, but an account of her investigative findings after years of research, starting from Day 1 of the bombing, where she was present as a reporter. If you're looking for Earnest Hemingway's or Robert Frost's poetic discourses on international terrorism, and this is your critique, I find your perspective and motives very strange, given the context. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 3:55:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The biggest focal points the FBI doesn't know about now due to generational changeover, and Clinton Admin orders at the time are: The Palestinian property manager, Samir Khalil, whose wife died in the Murrah Building bombing, who he never reported her death until prodded to do so. The people he employed, including Al Hussaini, who matched the description of John Doe #2 to a T, including the Salman Pak tattoo on his arm. The fact that Dr. Samir Khalil owned Samara Properties and the Mazda pick up truck had been seen there by several eye witnesses, including employees of Samir. The fact that Samir employed numerous Middle Eastern ex-pats who were witnessed cheering when the bombing took place. The fact that Al Hussaini was recognized by the 2 FBI agents that Jayna Davis showed the video to. She had started following leads from the case per instructions from her supervisor, and ended up at the business of Dr. Samir, a Federal felon convict who had ties to Yasser Arafat's PLO back in Palestine, where he had immigrated from. She hired a PI the station used to do surveillance on Samir's business, and one of the men matched John Doe #2's description. That is where Al Hussaini comes into the picture. He later left OKC to live in the Boston area, and was working for 2 Iraqi brothers who managed a food services contract for Boston Logan International. From Glenn Beck's summary and follow-up on Jayna Davis' work on the case. The Middle Eastern Connection Keep in mind Jayna Davis' work was done before Glenn Beck's National TV career, which didn't begin until 2006. Still think McVeigh and Nichols acted alone? Quote HistoryQuoted: The biggest focal points the FBI doesn't know about now due to generational changeover, and Clinton Admin orders at the time are: The Palestinian property manager, Samir Khalil, whose wife died in the Murrah Building bombing, who he never reported her death until prodded to do so. The people he employed, including Al Hussaini, who matched the description of John Doe #2 to a T, including the Salman Pak tattoo on his arm. The fact that Dr. Samir Khalil owned Samara Properties and the Mazda pick up truck had been seen there by several eye witnesses, including employees of Samir. The fact that Samir employed numerous Middle Eastern ex-pats who were witnessed cheering when the bombing took place. The fact that Al Hussaini was recognized by the 2 FBI agents that Jayna Davis showed the video to. She had started following leads from the case per instructions from her supervisor, and ended up at the business of Dr. Samir, a Federal felon convict who had ties to Yasser Arafat's PLO back in Palestine, where he had immigrated from. She hired a PI the station used to do surveillance on Samir's business, and one of the men matched John Doe #2's description. That is where Al Hussaini comes into the picture. He later left OKC to live in the Boston area, and was working for 2 Iraqi brothers who managed a food services contract for Boston Logan International. According to 1997 medical records produced during his federal suit, Alhussaini said he had worked for a while at Boston's Logan Airport (where two of the planes were hijacked on Sept. 11). Quoting from those records, Alhussaini first told his psychiatrist that he had quit his airport job because, "If anything happens there, I will be a suspect." However, he later told his doctor that he "wanted to look for another job because he feels unsafe in the environment he works in, the airport, given the recent events involving his being previously suspected of involvement in the Oklahoma bombing." Alhussaini's specific job at the airport was never identified. I contacted the Massachusetts Port Authority, which oversees Logan, to obtain dates of employment. A spokesperson said the agency would not release any information. During the course of her investigation, Davis made contact with Yossef Bodansky, executive director of the 13-year-old Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare. Bodansky told Davis the task force had warned of an impending Islamic-sponsored terrorist attack in America's heartland back in 1995. On Feb. 27, 1995, the task force had issued its first confidential warning to federal agencies that Islamic terrorists "may soon strike Washington D.C., specifically the Capitol and the White House." This confidential alert, which he said was quietly distributed to federal intelligence agencies and law enforcement, claimed the attacks were to begin after March 21, 1995. "Striking inside the U.S. is presently a high priority for Iran," stated the warning. The alert also stated that upcoming terrorist strikes might be directed against "airports, airlines and telephone systems." In light of Sept. 11, it was a telling note. On March 3, 1995, the task force issued an update. This "super-sensitive" alert stated there was a "greater likelihood the terrorists would strike at the heart of the U.S." Bodansky also told Davis that after the truck bombing, he reviewed intelligence data that confirmed, "Oklahoma City was on the list of potential targets." Bodansky gave Davis copies of the task force's original alert and some of his confidential notes detailing the update and Oklahoma City's target status. His material notes an independent warning from Israeli intelligence a month before the bombing. The warning indicated a terrorist attack was impending and that "lilly whites" would be activated. Lilly whites, Bodansky writes, were people without any background or police records who would not be suspected members of a terrorist group. From Glenn Beck's summary and follow-up on Jayna Davis' work on the case. The Middle Eastern Connection Keep in mind Jayna Davis' work was done before Glenn Beck's National TV career, which didn't begin until 2006. Still think McVeigh and Nichols acted alone? OKLAHOMA CITY — After the ceremony commemorating the 20th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing ended, families lingered among the 168 chairs on the ground that held lovingly fastened flowers and other mementos on their loved ones spots. The passage of time is different for those who have this date etched in their minds. "It’s very sad day. I remember just like yesterday,” said Samir Khalil. Khalil lost his wife in the tragedy. He would often visit her at the federal building where they would eat lunch together. He was supposed to be there that fateful day. "I just hear the bombing, shook the whole town. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the smoke,” said Khalil. Since the Mazda pickup truck was owned by an employee that worked in the building next door to the Murrah building, wouldn't it be natural for her truck to be seen in the area of the bombing? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 4:03:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Completely aside from what was, or wasn't, seen by credible (or not) witnesses in OKC, the events of the past twenty years tend to lead credence to the "standard" version of events.
Twenty years have passed, the GWOT in full swing, and still no claim of responsibility by Muslim radical groups. A terrorist attack without crediting the attacker has no value, so this makes no sense. Shit, some "good" attacks often having competing claims of responsibility. Second, keeping the true narrative secret would require a vast conspiracy.... and in my experience the government sucks at keeping secrets. Some senior Fed somewhere would have blown the roof off this thing years ago... best selling book and movie rights as a given. Neither has happened. Very unlikely. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 4:14:16 PM EDT
[#15]
If you think about lawsuits and what can of worms that opens this up to, there are probably over a $billion reasons why the FBI isn't going to come out and admit intimidation of witnesses, let alone tarnish the Bureau's image. Ever read any book from a former FBI agent that spoke critically of the Bureau that got National recognition?
As to Middle Eastern actors, if they were going to claim responsibility, they wouldn't have recruited lily whites, and would have just used suicide bombers. There are certain nations that only want at least one, if not two layers of surrogates to be used. Iran is one of those. "Hey! We just struck at the hear of America, you dirty infidel dogs! Your retort?" Keep in mind there has been a proxy war going on between the Islamist Iranian groups and the US for decades, to include the shoot-down of Iranian airlines with medals for the Navy officer, the Lockerbie bombing in retaliation, all the Hezbollah and shady unaffiliated Islamic Jihad group attacks against US targets in the Middle East in the 1980's and 1990's before OKC, and the penetration of US intelligence and diplomatic communities. Terrorist Attacks in the US or against US |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The neo-nazi BS is disinformation from the Clinton DOJ to keep people on-track that it was a domestic terrorist event, to be blamed on those hateful right-wingers. Never let a crisis go to waste. Keep in mind who was in Clinton's DOJ at the time, and you see the fruit and the tree. I'm not sure it was necessarily neo-nazi's, but it's amazing, if you dig deep enough, how many names keep circulating in the same circles regarding Iran-Contra, OKC, and some other events. Makes me wonder if people who got in trouble in one event were then used by the Feds under threat of prosecution for that event to infiltrate other events (such as they tried to do with Randy Weaver). Also amazing how many things I remember from the Iran-Contra days have disappeared from the records... |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 4:35:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you think about lawsuits and what can of worms that opens this up to, there are probably over a $billion reasons why the FBI isn't going to come out and admit intimidation of witnesses, let alone tarnish the Bureau's image. Ever read any book from a former FBI agent that spoke critically of the Bureau that got National recognition? As to Middle Eastern actors, if they were going to claim responsibility, they wouldn't have recruited lily whites, and would have just used suicide bombers. There are certain nations that only want at least one, if not two layers of surrogates to be used. Iran is one of those. "Hey! We just struck at the hear of America, you dirty infidel dogs! Your retort?" Keep in mind there has been a proxy war going on between the Islamist Iranian groups and the US for decades, to include the shoot-down of Iranian airlines with medals for the Navy officer, the Lockerbie bombing in retaliation, all the Hezbollah and shady unaffiliated Islamic Jihad group attacks against US targets in the Middle East in the 1980's and 1990's before OKC, and the penetration of US intelligence and diplomatic communities. Terrorist Attacks in the US or against US Why would the Middle Eastern actors have bothered with recruiting lily whites? How would they have gone about recruiting McVeigh or Nichols? It doesn't make sense. First, they need to somehow recruit multiple people into helping them out. Then they import a bunch of Middle Easterners into the area that don't do anything to further the cause. Then they blow up a building and sneak away without letting anyone know they were responsible, letting right-wing Americans take the blame. Does that even make sense to anyone here? If they wanted to blow up the Murrah building, why recruit some Americans to do it? If they were able to recruit two Americans to do it, why would they need 5 to 8 Middle Eastern guys to be on the ground in OK? McVeigh and Nichols bought or stole all of the components that went into the bomb, McVeigh rented the truck, they built the bomb itself. McVeigh even paid for the operation himself. Even if McVeigh and Nichols received advice on how to build the bomb from a Middle Eastern source, that would take one guy. What were the extra guys for? Wouldn't it have been easier to just build the bomb themselves, detonate it and get on a plane to somewhere, much like they did with the WTC bombing? Why hide their involvement? They just blew up the building just because? Ramzi Yousef mailed letters to New York newspapers claiming responsibility for the WTC bombing right before personally driving the truck to the site. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 5:11:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you think about lawsuits and what can of worms that opens this up to, there are probably over a $billion reasons why the FBI isn't going to come out and admit intimidation of witnesses, let alone tarnish the Bureau's image. Ever read any book from a former FBI agent that spoke critically of the Bureau that got National recognition? As to Middle Eastern actors, if they were going to claim responsibility, they wouldn't have recruited lily whites, and would have just used suicide bombers. There are certain nations that only want at least one, if not two layers of surrogates to be used. Iran is one of those. "Hey! We just struck at the hear of America, you dirty infidel dogs! Your retort?" Keep in mind there has been a proxy war going on between the Islamist Iranian groups and the US for decades, to include the shoot-down of Iranian airlines with medals for the Navy officer, the Lockerbie bombing in retaliation, all the Hezbollah and shady unaffiliated Islamic Jihad group attacks against US targets in the Middle East in the 1980's and 1990's before OKC, and the penetration of US intelligence and diplomatic communities. Terrorist Attacks in the US or against US Bin Ladin didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 until 2004 for whatever reason. Claims aren't always a necessity or even a part of a terrorists goals. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 5:12:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Good blog post about Jayna Davis and her book, pointing out where she exaggerates or bends facts to make the book seem more exciting:
"To wit: Dr. Samir Khalil and Samara Properties are pseudonymized in the book as "Dr. Anwar Abdul" and "Salman Properties" (in a not very subtle attempt to forge a connection in the reader's mind between the latter and the Salman Pak camp in Iraq). On page 67 of the paperback edition, Davis breathlessly informs us that "Dr. Abdul was paroled from prison [on an insurance fraud conviction] not long after the Gulf War ended. He immediately resumed operating his rental empire, but continued to run his business sub rosa. Scouring the company registrations with the Oklahoma Secretary of State, the Southwestern Bell phone book, and directory assistance, I found no official record of Salman Properties." Now, the Internet is much more convenient, accessible and information-rich than it used to be, and it's always possible that things have changed, but it only took me a couple of minutes to find an "official record" of Samara Properties -- from the county assessor's office (a pretty obvious place to look when investigating a property management firm). A few more minutes, and I had confirmation on my screen of an incorporation by Dr. Samir Khalil ... of Dr. Samir Khalil ... with the Secretary of State. Since Davis doesn't bother to mention that Dr. Khalil went "legit" later (and her narrative runs up to 2005), either she wants us to believe that he's still operating, as she puts it, sub rosa or else she's hyping the story up beyond what the facts warrant with her claim that he was doing so in the first place (or, perhaps, she's just possessed of poor research and investigation skills). I'm not a lawyer, but it looks like the most Dr. Khalil could really be accused of here is neglecting to file a fictitious business name registration form, if even that." |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 5:20:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bin Ladin didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 until 2004 for whatever reason. Claims aren't always a necessity or even a part of a terrorists goals. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you think about lawsuits and what can of worms that opens this up to, there are probably over a $billion reasons why the FBI isn't going to come out and admit intimidation of witnesses, let alone tarnish the Bureau's image. Ever read any book from a former FBI agent that spoke critically of the Bureau that got National recognition? As to Middle Eastern actors, if they were going to claim responsibility, they wouldn't have recruited lily whites, and would have just used suicide bombers. There are certain nations that only want at least one, if not two layers of surrogates to be used. Iran is one of those. "Hey! We just struck at the hear of America, you dirty infidel dogs! Your retort?" Keep in mind there has been a proxy war going on between the Islamist Iranian groups and the US for decades, to include the shoot-down of Iranian airlines with medals for the Navy officer, the Lockerbie bombing in retaliation, all the Hezbollah and shady unaffiliated Islamic Jihad group attacks against US targets in the Middle East in the 1980's and 1990's before OKC, and the penetration of US intelligence and diplomatic communities. Terrorist Attacks in the US or against US Bin Ladin didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 until 2004 for whatever reason. Claims aren't always a necessity or even a part of a terrorists goals. "Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed: Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results. Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden?" The reason they didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 is they didn't need to. There wasn't much doubt over who was responsible. Did Bin Laden allow the blame to fall on anyone else's shoulders? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 9:23:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you think about lawsuits and what can of worms that opens this up to, there are probably over a $billion reasons why the FBI isn't going to come out and admit intimidation of witnesses, let alone tarnish the Bureau's image. Ever read any book from a former FBI agent that spoke critically of the Bureau that got National recognition? As to Middle Eastern actors, if they were going to claim responsibility, they wouldn't have recruited lily whites, and would have just used suicide bombers. There are certain nations that only want at least one, if not two layers of surrogates to be used. Iran is one of those. "Hey! We just struck at the hear of America, you dirty infidel dogs! Your retort?" Keep in mind there has been a proxy war going on between the Islamist Iranian groups and the US for decades, to include the shoot-down of Iranian airlines with medals for the Navy officer, the Lockerbie bombing in retaliation, all the Hezbollah and shady unaffiliated Islamic Jihad group attacks against US targets in the Middle East in the 1980's and 1990's before OKC, and the penetration of US intelligence and diplomatic communities. Terrorist Attacks in the US or against US Bin Ladin didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 until 2004 for whatever reason. Claims aren't always a necessity or even a part of a terrorists goals. "Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed: Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results. Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden?" The reason they didn't claim responsibility for 9/11 is they didn't need to. There wasn't much doubt over who was responsible. Did Bin Laden allow the blame to fall on anyone else's shoulders? The point is claims aren't a necessity for a terror attack and the lack of one does not rule out the involvement of ME terrorists. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 12:19:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Went to school with Tim and graduated with his sister. They are both very intelligent and very political / anti-government. I have no doubt that he carried out the bombing. I don't think anybody is disputing that he carried out the bombing. The question is whether he and Terry Nichols were the ONLY ones involved. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:32:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think anybody is disputing that he carried out the bombing. The question is whether he and Terry Nichols were the ONLY ones involved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Went to school with Tim and graduated with his sister. They are both very intelligent and very political / anti-government. I have no doubt that he carried out the bombing. I don't think anybody is disputing that he carried out the bombing. The question is whether he and Terry Nichols were the ONLY ones involved. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:02:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the closing statement of the Grand Jury's report, seems appropriate. During the course of this Grand Jury's investigation, we have observed a tremendous amount of journalistic overlap in a number of magazines, books, talk radio shows and Internet websites. The same misprinted information is repeated over and over again without anyone validating its veracity. Sadly, these organizations and individuals have glorified those convicted in federal court by vilifying the federal government and increasing the public's distrust of its government by providing half-truths, uncorroborated, and oftentimes out-right false information. You there! Cut it out! There will be no rational discussion. You have been warned. I would type more but my hot pocket is getting cold.... |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 6:08:26 PM EDT
[#25]
February 10th, 1995. Senator Joe Biden introduced Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, US Senate bills S.390 and S.761 on behalf of the Clinton Administration. The bill was co sponsored by Senators Alfonse D'Amato, Dianne Feinstein, Robert J. Kerrey, Herb Kohl, Jon Kyl, Barbara A. Mikulski and Arlen Specter.[4] Representative Chuck Schumer sponsored the bill (H.R. 896) in the US House of Representatives.[3] Following closely on the heels of Executive Order 12947, prohibiting transactions with terrorists, President Clinton described the bill as a "comprehensive effort to strengthen the ability of the United States to deter terrorist acts and punish those who aid or abet any international terrorist activity in the United States" and requested "the prompt and favorable consideration of this legislative proposal by the Congress". Bill Summaries 1995-1996 According to the summary by President Clinton, the bill was intended to establish federal criminal jurisdiction over acts of international terrorism.[5] Civil liberty advocacy groups opposed the bill on the grounds that it would violate fundamental civil liberties, including the right to confront one's accuser.[3] Another source of opposition was the Government's ability to use evidence from secret sources in deportation proceedings for suspected terrorists.[3] During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."[7] Joe Biden's History with Legislation Still wanna believe the freaking drivel you're being fed? This is why public school is so bad. Biden introduced the legislation on February 10th, 1995. The OKC Bombing and murder of 168 people was on April 15th, 1995. Joe Biden, never to be one to duck from the spotlight, made sure everyone knew he drafted the provisions of the PATRIOT Act, but made it sound like he did it after OKC, not before. Why? |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 6:49:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bill Summaries 1995-1996 Joe Biden's History with Legislation Still wanna believe the freaking drivel you're being fed? This is why public school is so bad. Biden introduced the legislation on February 10th, 1995. The OKC Bombing and murder of 168 people was on April 15th, 1995. Joe Biden, never to be one to duck from the spotlight, made sure everyone knew he drafted the provisions of the PATRIOT Act, but made it sound like he did it after OKC, not before. Why? Quote HistoryQuoted: February 10th, 1995. Senator Joe Biden introduced Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, US Senate bills S.390 and S.761 on behalf of the Clinton Administration. The bill was co sponsored by Senators Alfonse D'Amato, Dianne Feinstein, Robert J. Kerrey, Herb Kohl, Jon Kyl, Barbara A. Mikulski and Arlen Specter.[4] Representative Chuck Schumer sponsored the bill (H.R. 896) in the US House of Representatives.[3] Following closely on the heels of Executive Order 12947, prohibiting transactions with terrorists, President Clinton described the bill as a "comprehensive effort to strengthen the ability of the United States to deter terrorist acts and punish those who aid or abet any international terrorist activity in the United States" and requested "the prompt and favorable consideration of this legislative proposal by the Congress". Bill Summaries 1995-1996 According to the summary by President Clinton, the bill was intended to establish federal criminal jurisdiction over acts of international terrorism.[5] Civil liberty advocacy groups opposed the bill on the grounds that it would violate fundamental civil liberties, including the right to confront one's accuser.[3] Another source of opposition was the Government's ability to use evidence from secret sources in deportation proceedings for suspected terrorists.[3] During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."[7] Joe Biden's History with Legislation Still wanna believe the freaking drivel you're being fed? This is why public school is so bad. Biden introduced the legislation on February 10th, 1995. The OKC Bombing and murder of 168 people was on April 15th, 1995. Joe Biden, never to be one to duck from the spotlight, made sure everyone knew he drafted the provisions of the PATRIOT Act, but made it sound like he did it after OKC, not before. Why? |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 6:51:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Perhaps Joe Biden didn't remember excactly when he introduced legislation from 6 years before? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
February 10th, 1995. Senator Joe Biden introduced Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, US Senate bills S.390 and S.761 on behalf of the Clinton Administration. The bill was co sponsored by Senators Alfonse D'Amato, Dianne Feinstein, Robert J. Kerrey, Herb Kohl, Jon Kyl, Barbara A. Mikulski and Arlen Specter.[4] Representative Chuck Schumer sponsored the bill (H.R. 896) in the US House of Representatives.[3] Following closely on the heels of Executive Order 12947, prohibiting transactions with terrorists, President Clinton described the bill as a "comprehensive effort to strengthen the ability of the United States to deter terrorist acts and punish those who aid or abet any international terrorist activity in the United States" and requested "the prompt and favorable consideration of this legislative proposal by the Congress". Bill Summaries 1995-1996 According to the summary by President Clinton, the bill was intended to establish federal criminal jurisdiction over acts of international terrorism.[5] Civil liberty advocacy groups opposed the bill on the grounds that it would violate fundamental civil liberties, including the right to confront one's accuser.[3] Another source of opposition was the Government's ability to use evidence from secret sources in deportation proceedings for suspected terrorists.[3] During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."[7] Joe Biden's History with Legislation Still wanna believe the freaking drivel you're being fed? This is why public school is so bad. Biden introduced the legislation on February 10th, 1995. The OKC Bombing and murder of 168 people was on April 15th, 1995. Joe Biden, never to be one to duck from the spotlight, made sure everyone knew he drafted the provisions of the PATRIOT Act, but made it sound like he did it after OKC, not before. Why? Biden is sharp as a tack. He would never make a mistake. |
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