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5/29/2017 5:35:05 AM
Posted: 4/22/2001 6:23:13 PM EDT
I know we had a thread awhile back about this book, butI just gotta put it out in the open for those new members who haven't got a chance to read probably the best book I've read in years. Better than Harry Potter, dammit. NSF
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 6:35:15 PM EDT
Good lookin girl on that dust cover. I dont recall her holding a squirt gun and a rubber knife. Yep, good read
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 6:35:33 PM EDT
That is the greatest book I have ever read(I would say the Holy Bible, but I never read the whole thing[;)] Anyway, it should be required reading in schools along with the US Constitution, Madison's Notes on the Federal Convention, and pretty much everything the founders wrote.
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 7:37:14 PM EDT
Several people recommended that book to me last year. I ordered it off the internet from Barnes and Noble and was surprised that it was such a large book when I got it, but it was well worth reading. It is one of the best books that I have read regarding the second amendment and where our country might be heading. I learned so many things from that book, and I will definitely read it again. I recommend it to everyone who hasn't read it.
Link Posted: 4/22/2001 7:45:35 PM EDT
It's a great book. Learn some neat stuff, like that old hillbilly Miller never bothered to respond to the govt's appeal to the Supreme Court in U.S. v. Miller, the font of anti-RKBA propoganda about not individual right to KABA. Miller probably would have won that case back in the 30's. Congruity of the Nazi Gun control act of 1938 or whenever and US gun control acts of 1968 and later send a chill up your back. Fiction part started really going outthere towards the end though. Still, and all, a good read.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 12:32:59 AM EDT
Makes you wonder what you'll do when (or if) the time comes. Entertaining book, couldn't put it down, but the last 50 pages or so were a little far fetched.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 5:00:41 AM EDT
I am interested in reading the book. Can you fellows tell me where to get it and how much it is? TIA.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 5:07:24 AM EDT
Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble. About $20-25 shipped.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 6:07:53 AM EDT
I just saw Unintended Consequences at [url]www.buy.com[/url]for $20.99 +$3.25 for standard shipping. That's cheaper than I have seen it. I was looking for a used copy at half.com but I guess those who have it don't want to sell it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 6:10:09 AM EDT
made it through my copy in about three days, after that i keep lending it out to all my friends so it is never 'home'. but that is what 'the good book' is for, to be read by as many as it can
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 6:55:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2001 7:01:26 AM EDT by platform389]
"Good lookin girl on that dust cover." That is "Justice". Note the scales on the ground next to her. No doubt you have seen the statue at the courthouse or something. The illustration is supposed to represent the ATF thugs knocking Justice down by their actions. Although the ending is weak, the book is loaded with facts every gun owner needs to know about their governments actions over the years.
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 7:12:22 AM EDT
FANTASTIC reading/history! I've got two books 'touring' the US right now. Got to order another for the next 'candidate'. I've read it twice and will again. Must read!
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 5:13:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 5:53:51 PM EDT
[b]Unintended Consequences[/b] rocks! If my poor ass can afford it so can you! READ IT!
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 10:37:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2001 11:47:49 PM EDT
I ordered the book from Amazon yesterday, and I just noticed that they e-mailed me today to tell me it would be at least a couple of weeks before it would ship. They estimated 2-3 days on the order form. Anyone know where to get it electronically so I can start reading it now rather than waiting on Amazon? I still want a copy for the bookshelf, but I'm impatient.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 7:36:57 PM EDT
All the factual statements in the book seemed correct to me. Did anyone find factual errors that I missed? Never heard about the FBI "sandwich" down in Miami Dade before. Is this true or just sensationalism?
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 7:53:58 PM EDT
Just finished it myself. Very good book, I was impressed. I couldn't put it down, and finished it in less than a week. Heck, I think I learned a lot about gun laws and gun history as well as shooting just from reading it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2001 8:04:02 PM EDT
gwalchmai- I'm not sure if the sex part of the story is true but the incident did happen. Justice Files on Discovery Channel did a great reenactment.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 5:41:59 AM EDT
would make a great movie but i'mm not holding my breath, blue ain't my color
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 7:41:39 PM EDT
I don't usualy read novels but I read UC twice.
Link Posted: 5/3/2001 8:01:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gwalchmai: All the factual statements in the book seemed correct to me. Did anyone find factual errors that I missed? Never heard about the FBI "sandwich" down in Miami Dade before. Is this true or just sensationalism?
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From everything I've read, the "sandwich" was, as you asked, sensationalism. However, the idiocy of taking their guns out of their holsters and laying them on the CAR SEATS wasn't. I think Ross "spiced up" the book with kinky sex just to help it sell (or he likes kinky sex. More power to him.) Other than that, I don't know of any "factual errors". Outstanding book (except for the Feds rolling over at the end.) Ross is an occasional contributor to the rec.guns newsgroup. He has just recently gone through a divorce, and the BATF went sniffing around his ex-wife apparently with the intent to use her to entrap him - she didn't go for it, and his lawyer was sicced on them. Anyway, he agrees that the ending was too pat, and he is working on a sequel, but with his private life in turmoil he hasn't had a lot of time. I hope he finishes it, though. [sniper]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 2:52:02 PM EDT by CAR15M4]
I just finished reading it last night, and thank God for it. I was disapointed that it was nothing more than a history lesson: In other words, nothing I didn't already know. For the un-educated, I'm sure it's interesting reading, but it bored me. It took about 5 months of on and off reading to finish it. And after reading it, I don't understand why the ATF went after the author's wife to try to get her to turn on the author, except that maybe they felt the same way about the book as me. On the other hand, it is heavy enough to make a nice paper weight: I didn't like it !!! *** "Bill" at Keypoint Sales: Your lucky day *** Jay Arizona
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:47:53 AM EDT
One thing I never got- Who was the woman in the trailer they killed? Did I miss something? (very possible in a 861 pg. book.)
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 10:07:17 PM EDT
Who was the woman in the trailer they killed? Hoople I take it as Janet Reno.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 10:10:26 PM EDT
[b]Caution: SPOILER:[/b]
Originally Posted By Gwalchmai: Who was the woman in the trailer they killed? Hoople I take it as Janet Reno.
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Definitely Janet Reno.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 10:12:29 PM EDT
Ross beat up the M-60 pretty bad. Do any of you have first hand knowledge of the weapon? Is it as bad as he says?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 10:15:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gwalchmai: Who was the woman in the trailer they killed? Hoople I take it as Janet Reno.
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Wow, never thought about that, I guess I forgot about that part. This might be a stupid question, but what do you think happened to Neumann? He wasn't really a "bad guy" and Bowman didn't seem to have a problem with the FBI in particular. Oh well, I guess he probably still fed him to the hogs...
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 3:53:34 PM EDT
Wasn't the woman living alone in a trailer in the middle of the desert? How do you guys figure it is Janet Reno? If my memory serves me (and it doesn't much anymore) didn't the woman say something about testifying again to the killers, thinking they were from the government? If the book wasn't so damn long I'd try and find that section again.
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 4:34:49 PM EDT
We usually have a copy or two around, but are currently out. If there are interested buyers, let me know and I'll see how many copies I can lay my hands on. [url]www.bowmansbrigade.com[/url] As I understand it, there are a couple of factual errors in the story, but darned if I can remember exactly what they are. Ross does a fine job of portraying a serious national problem.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:09:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 8:09:00 AM EDT by Gwalchmai]
P849 of Unintended Consequences at the bottom is where the Reno scene starts. Note the references to her thick glasses, & The ? about more hearings. The clincher for me is the suicide note. I TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:24:35 AM EDT
Ahem, she finally took responsibility after all these years, excellent. Excellent book, IMHO. Don't complain about the length of the book. The historical 'prologue' was absolutely necessary to understand what was to take place. Without it, Henry Bowman would come off looking like a [b]richer, better educated Timothy McVeigh![/b] Eric The(Radical)Hun
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 8:50:59 AM EDT
HKocher wrote what do you think happened to Neumann? He wasn't really a "bad guy" and Bowman didn't seem to have a problem with the FBI in particular. Oh well, I guess he probably still fed him to the hogs... I think Henry would have shot him immediately if that was his intention. Besides, Ross is a pretty good Author, and might need the character in the sequel.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 2:57:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 4:13:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 4:14:55 PM EDT by MG_ME]
[b]Ross beat up the M-60 pretty bad. Do any of you have first hand knowledge of the weapon? Is it as bad as he says?[/b] My idea from the book the reason the M60 is bad is because saco won't FUCKING listen to no one about the design flaws. the M60 had problems i think with the changes in the E3 might have fixed some of them. the book said the cam path angle's were not right. the sear trip is upside down the headspace get excessive after so many 1000's(what ever the book said rounds). that was the same thing with the M16 jamming problem in vietnam they tried to tell the Gov about needing chrome lining chamber's but they would not listen. I broke an M60 when i was in the army. i broke the charging handle lever, and the bolt jammed up with the sear(Don't know why!) well you get the picture.
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 4:34:13 PM EDT
It sucked, and was a big let down for the most part. Some of the history tidbits were of interest. However, the right-wing extremist militia nut jobs and uneducated trailer trash types seem to think it’s great literature, it’s even the first read for most of them. This book does nothing to help gun owners rights, it just enforces the stereotype of the angry white male. Hell, it was even an inspiration to Timmy, good think that sick puppy was already in jail awaiting to get cooked. RK
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 4:50:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Righteous Kill: It sucked, and was a big let down for the most part. Some of the history tidbits were of interest. However, the right-wing extremist militia nut jobs and uneducated trailer trash types seem to think it’s great literature, it’s even the first read for most of them. This book does nothing to help gun owners rights, it just enforces the stereotype of the angry white male. Hell, it was even an inspiration to Timmy, good think that sick puppy was already in jail awaiting to get cooked. RK
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Oh, and I suppose some handle like Righteous Kill is the best thing to have when spouting your mouth off about "angry white male". Anti's probably wouldn't read it, anyway. The book talked about those "right wing militia nuts" not DOING ANYTHING. IT was about citizens being pushed way to far and having their inalienable rights trampled on, which you must think is okay. Hypocrite. Got anything else constructive to say? NSF
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:23:45 PM EDT
From Righteous Kill -
...right-wing extremist militia nut jobs and uneducated trailer trash types....
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Funny, I've never heard any serious proponents of gun rights speak in this manner, but it sure as hell sounds like many gun-banning pinhead liberal a**holes I've heard spewing forth on this subject. Is there any such thing as a 'left-wing extremist'? That's a term one seldom hears on the six o'clock news, but references to [u]right[/u][u]wing[/u] extremisim are rampant! At least according from Dan & Peter & Tom & whoever's on CNN! Righteous Kill are you certain whose side you're on in this fight? And do you really think that people who live in trailer homes are uneducated, or just underfunded? Or maybe just not much caught up in the modern ratrace? Or maybe just marching to the beat of a different drummer? Eric The Hun
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 5:37:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2001 5:39:23 PM EDT by Righteous_Kill]
Yeah,in Star Wars the Rebels fought the Evil Empire that wanted to oppress them. Only Star Wars has better character development, better plot, and was more believable. What’s your point? So the book rags on the militia guys? It’s been four or five years since I had the displeasure of reading it. My apologies to the militia types, I wrongly included you with people who find this sort of crap entertaining. Hypocrite? Yeah right, I’ll add it to the list of other things people think I am. “Righteous Kill” suggests a kill made for justifiable reasons. Now what you and I consider justifiable probably varies greatly. “Come back and I shall taunt you a second time.”
Link Posted: 5/6/2001 9:37:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gwalchmai: Ross beat up the M-60 pretty bad. Do any of you have first hand knowledge of the weapon? Is it as bad as he says?
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M-60 is a fine wepon if proplerly maintained. A lot can go wrong on it, but if you take care of it, it'll do just fine. [img]http://www.milpubs.com/range.gif[/img] We shoot about 2000-3000 rounds through each of ours in two days or so every year. Aviator
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 6:11:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2001 6:12:12 AM EDT by Hoople]
Originally Posted By Righteous Kill: This book does nothing to help gun owners rights, it just enforces the stereotype of the angry white male. I strongly disagree. I learned quite alot about the history of gun control laws and the events occurring in our nation's history at the time that triggered them. This book was never claimed to be a literary masterpiece, and it sure was never meant to be another Star Wars. R.K. are you white? You certainly are angry. Is this the way you represent youself as a gunowner to other people? I'm white,have a college degree, live in a house in a nice neighborhood and you know what? It does not make me any better than someone living in a trailer. You seem to have bought into the whole media thing with your "angry white male" and "right wing militia nuts" quotes. Just by using these mainstream media images you help perpetuate the way many view gunowners. Rich or poor,house or trailer dweller,white or black united we stand or......well you know what we're headed for if certain people get their way. Thanks to the posters who helped answer my question about the book, it was the 1st book I ever read so I had a little trouble with it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 8:40:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Righteous Kill: Yeah,in Star Wars the Rebels fought the Evil Empire that wanted to oppress them. Only Star Wars has better character development, better plot, and was more believable. What’s your point?
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Bawaaaaaahhhhhhh, please make him STOP! Gasp, Gawd that hurts, my sides are aching, I can't see the keyboard for the tears of laughter. I can't take it any longer.....
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 12:44:20 PM EDT
I’m not angry about anything. Just can’t figure why people think this book is so great? Yes, there was some very good history in this book. The notion of an unintended consequence was excellent, a near-perfect way to show the burden placed on the American gun owner. I had such great hopes for the book and was really let down when it spiraled into a male-ego trashy fantasy. How great would be a book you could loan a friend who was sitting on the fence about gun control and other political views. A book that showed what was wrong with the system and what could come as a result. That’s not this book. I would be ashamed to loan this book to anyone. As for the trailer trash and militia cracks, it was a poor attempt to stir the pot. My apologies to militia member and anyone who lives in a trailer park. I was a general stereotype and not direct at anyone in particular.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 12:45:51 PM EDT
Crow, I’m not sure what to make of your post. Either way, glad you got a good laugh out of it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2001 1:03:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Righteous Kill: I had such great hopes for the book and was really let down when it spiraled into a male-ego trashy fantasy. How great would be a book you could loan a friend who was sitting on the fence about gun control and other political views. A book that showed what was wrong with the system and what could come as a result. That’s not this book. I would be ashamed to loan this book to anyone.
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I'm going to have to somewhat agree with you on a few things here, as far as the trashy male-ego fantasy thing, yes it's there but it's a friggin story! it's supposed to be like that we wouldn't read it otherwise. I really did enjoy all the US rkba history and gun facts but the story itself was rather lacking and probably only accounted for 15% of the text. If a couple hundred pages were added to the back half of the book about the actual 'fight' it'd be better. On the subject of a magickal 'conversion' text we can indoctrinate liberals with hmm...I have a friend who is a socialist liberal elitist P.o.S. of the worst kind being that he is a gun-owner. I'v thought about loaning him this and then making him watch "The Patriot" over and over in hopes that some of his programming can be torn down, but I really think the thoughts of attacks on his precious government would scare the hell out of him.
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