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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:27:22 PM EDT
[#1]
I'll never understand people who's first instinct in times of crisis is to just start screaming uncontrollably and incessantly.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:32:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll never understand people who's first instinct in times of crisis is to just start screaming uncontrollably and incessantly. Most people have never been stress inoculated. Not sure why he was there or why others allowed him to go. Complacency kills. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:33:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Agreed. He shouldn't have been up there.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:34:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:40:27 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:40:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Venting a roof is normal and beneficial in many circumstances. But this roof is clearly compromised. Bad decision by someone.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:44:07 PM EDT
[#7]
I saw this a day or two ago, news said he had burns over 60% of his body.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:44:48 PM EDT
[#8]
AAR? News article?
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:45:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Sounding the roof gives f/fs an idea of the structural integrity of the building. Some folks like to use a pike pole others use a trash hook. It looks like he was using a trash hook. Its a good idea to use a roof ladder when doing that... keeps your body weight plus the 50+ lbs of turnout gear spread out.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:46:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is the .gif for it
I posted it in the notrega WTF thread a few days ago. (Not calling a dupe OP!) |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:46:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:48:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. He was up there to vent the structure but should not have been. There was no risk to life and could easily have been vented by other means. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:51:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? You sound a roof out and cut on either side of the rafter to create a hole. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:51:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? That's why you have to do it a bunch and I'm using an axe. Although it looked from the video that some of the shingles were smoking from the heat underneath which would have been reason enough to walk off that part of the roof. Frankly unless there was a report of someone trapped I don't think I'd be playing that aggressive with that structure, the insurance company already owned it at that point. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:54:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Been in a ff family ever since I can remember. did it myself for a couple years before going .mil. venting a roof is a normal thing but they really need a couple guys min, one watching for signs of possible danger and the other doing it, It's a dangerous process.
My dad has fallen through roofs, down stairs, and the only time I know he had to go to er was from getting a hot ash in his eye. even had a brick from the chimney fall and hit top dead center of his helmet and to anyone that know how hard the helmets are it put a small dent in it. (He's still got the helmet) he's been the chief for over 18 years now (less physical danger but has to deal with keeping ff safe) Stay safe all Arfcom firefighters. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 10:54:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's why you have to do it a bunch and I'm using an axe. Although it looked from the video that some of the shingles were smoking from the heat underneath which would have been reason enough to walk off that part of the roof. Frankly unless there was a report of someone trapped I don't think I'd be playing that aggressive with that structure, the insurance company already owned it at that point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? That's why you have to do it a bunch and I'm using an axe. Although it looked from the video that some of the shingles were smoking from the heat underneath which would have been reason enough to walk off that part of the roof. Frankly unless there was a report of someone trapped I don't think I'd be playing that aggressive with that structure, the insurance company already owned it at that point. Agreed. It's just a garage. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:00:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sound a roof out and cut on either side of the rafter to create a hole. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. The hitting the roof he was doing was to sound it to check the integrity not to knock holes in it, that would come later. Although a closet rake wouldn't be my preferred tool for the job. I'm not a fireman but don't you run the risk of hitting a rafter and giving you a false sense of integrity? You sound a roof out and cut on either side of the rafter to create a hole. I guess I'm imagining me sounding a wall to hang a picture...after poking at least 3 unneeded holes in my wall. 
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:03:00 PM EDT
[#18]
 Fuck that was dumb being up there.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:06:02 PM EDT
[#19]
I agree with the posters above. I would not have been on that roof, nor would I have put anyone on it.
25 year vet should have known better. Complacency or arrogance. Still, he has my sympathy, no one should have to suffer that kind of hell. 60% 2cns & 3rd, he'll be lucky if he survives.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:15:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with the posters above. I would not have been on that roof, nor would I have put anyone on it. 25 year vet should have known better. Complacency or arrogance. Still, he has my sympathy, no one should have to suffer that kind of hell. 60% 2cns & 3rd, he'll be lucky if he survives. Whoever sent him up should be kicked in the balls and fired. 20 years as a ff and counting. I'm also pissed about the slow looking response to get to him. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:17:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Ugh
Also, him and the second guy go up top to presumably vent the roof with just a hook and an axe? Don't hang out on roofs, bring a chainsaw, cut the hole, get off. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:21:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Are these guys vols or pros?
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:23:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are these guys vols or pros? 1/2 a million population city in CA? What do you think? |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:26:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ugh
Also, him and the second guy go up top to presumably vent the roof with just a hook and an axe? Don't hang out on roofs, bring a chainsaw, cut the hole, get off. Slow -mo the video, the LT was leading the way and sounding the roof, FF behind him was carrying a chain saw. Hard to see, but it's there. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:26:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1/2 a million population city in CA? What do you think? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are these guys vols or pros? 1/2 a million population city in CA? What do you think? I assume pros but it was an honest question. It doesn't matter to me either way I hope the ff fully recovers and this will just be a hell of a story for him to tell at the fire hall. ETA: your avatar is appropriate for this thread
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:41:05 PM EDT
[#26]
He was up there to prevent the brothers underneath him from taking a beating.They had crews on the interior. Very few think of the firefighters on the inside a life hazard. IMHO vertical ventilation is the safest form of ventilation for the guys on the inside. I would never put a guy on a roof I wouldn't put guys under. With that being said, judging by the smoke conditions, I don't think they should have been interior either. . Then again this is a 25 yr vet of a truck that does roof work every shift. How can I say with the comparatively measly experience I have that I know better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was up there to vent the structure but should not have been. There was no risk to life and could easily have been vented by other means. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. He was up there to vent the structure but should not have been. There was no risk to life and could easily have been vented by other means. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:44:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever sent him up should be kicked in the balls and fired. 20 years as a ff and counting. I'm also pissed about the slow looking response to get to him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I agree with the posters above. I would not have been on that roof, nor would I have put anyone on it. 25 year vet should have known better. Complacency or arrogance. Still, he has my sympathy, no one should have to suffer that kind of hell. 60% 2cns & 3rd, he'll be lucky if he survives. Whoever sent him up should be kicked in the balls and fired. 20 years as a ff and counting. I'm also pissed about the slow looking response to get to him. Guy was a capt.....probably of a ladder company. My guess he decided to go do it with out direct orders. Tunnel vision, complacency or arrogance will get you hurt. There is another vid that shows guys ripping down the garage door ASAP when he goes. I think they moved as quick as possible. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:48:38 PM EDT
[#28]
I understand your point but nobody was in that garage. I would have been trying to make a stop at the door into the house from the garage. Rip down the garage door and hit the fire from the interior. He did not even ladder the roof from the side of the garage, he did it off the house.
r Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had crews on the interior. Very few think of the firefighters on the inside a life hazard. IMHO vertical ventilation is the safest form of ventilation for the guys on the inside. I would never put a guy on a roof I wouldn't put guys under. With that being said judging by the smoke conditions, I don't think they should have been interior either. Then again this is a 25 yr vet of a truck that does roof work every shift. How can I say with the comparatively measly experience I have that I know better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had crews on the interior. Very few think of the firefighters on the inside a life hazard. IMHO vertical ventilation is the safest form of ventilation for the guys on the inside. I would never put a guy on a roof I wouldn't put guys under. With that being said judging by the smoke conditions, I don't think they should have been interior either. Then again this is a 25 yr vet of a truck that does roof work every shift. How can I say with the comparatively measly experience I have that I know better. Quoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. He was up there to vent the structure but should not have been. There was no risk to life and could easily have been vented by other means. |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:54:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Firefighting is obviously an extremely dangerous task. All it takes is one mistake, one quick lapse in judgment, just a bit of complacency...and that fire will bite you on the ass. That is why we spend so much time training and performing case studies on incidents such as this.
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:54:34 PM EDT
[#30]
His super hero name is now- The Ventilator!
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:55:42 PM EDT
[#31]
That sucks.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/1/2015 11:59:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Yea, I think that that fire could have been handled differently all around. Open it up and hit it from the exterior. I do however hate the fact that this will be used to further the agenda of the anti-vertical ventilation crowd. I can hear the sound of the collective knee jerk by dozens of Chiefs across the country halting roof ops for the safety of truckies while the engine gets barbecued inside.
Is roof work dangerous? He'll yea it is. But so is being interior with poor or improper ventilation. Vertical ventilation is a sound and proven tactic when used appropriately Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand your point but nobody was in that garage. I would have been trying to make a stop at the door into the house from the garage. Rip down the garage door and hit the fire from the interior. He did not even ladder the roof from the side of the garage, he did it off the house. r Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand your point but nobody was in that garage. I would have been trying to make a stop at the door into the house from the garage. Rip down the garage door and hit the fire from the interior. He did not even ladder the roof from the side of the garage, he did it off the house. r Quoted:
They had crews on the interior. Very few think of the firefighters on the inside a life hazard. IMHO vertical ventilation is the safest form of ventilation for the guys on the inside. I would never put a guy on a roof I wouldn't put guys under. With that being said judging by the smoke conditions, I don't think they should have been interior either. Then again this is a 25 yr vet of a truck that does roof work every shift. How can I say with the comparatively measly experience I have that I know better. Quoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. He was up there to vent the structure but should not have been. There was no risk to life and could easily have been vented by other means. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:15:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Venting a roof is normal and beneficial in many circumstances. But this roof is clearly compromised. Bad decision by someone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Venting a roof is normal and beneficial in many circumstances. But this roof is clearly compromised. Bad decision by someone. Quoted:
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link cause I don't know how to imbed Terrible for the guy to be honest he never should have been up on the roof. No kidding. I don't know jack about fire fighting so maybe someone who does can chime in. Is it normal to walk around a garage roof with smoke billowing out trying to knock holes in it? Seems awful dangerous for a structure with no one inside in danger. That looked like a pretty disorganized crew. Didn't they ignore several warning signs that putting someone on the roof to vent would be a bad idea? |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:21:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Firemen really do have a dangerous job. I pray for the safety of all of you, and especially this guy.
Okay, so what you are calling "venting" looks like backdraft to me. That flame was massive! I would never want to open a vent like that, let alone fall in it. I can't believe he survived at all. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:21:45 AM EDT
[#35]
That sucks.
If balls were brains... |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:22:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Lost a relative many years ago when he and another fire fighter fell through a roof.
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:30:10 AM EDT
[#37]
I had some meathead firemen do @ $5k damage to my house including falling through the ceiling while stomping around in the attic. There was no fire but they didn't let that stop them from breaking down the front door and tearing up my home. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 4:43:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Oh yeah, the bystanders are real helpful.
Shrieking Lady, and Mr Shaky Cam shouting suggestions even though he can't point a camera. Good jerb. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:33:06 PM EDT
[#39]
never should have been on the roof, it was compromised and in shit condition.
Most garages in CA have exposed trusses, there was a whole lot of fire in that garage. Rafters and sheeting both fucked. The IC messed up putting him there and he messed up by not saying "no" The garage was wasted, protect any exposes, cut a hole on the garage door or find a widow put water in the hole or window. |
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Posted: 4/2/2015 12:39:15 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Firemen really do have a dangerous job. I pray for the safety of all of you, and especially this guy. Okay, so what you are calling "venting" looks like backdraft to me. That flame was massive! I would never want to open a vent like that, let alone fall in it. I can't believe he survived at all. The idea of ventilation is to provide the heat and fire products a controlled way out of the fire area. Vertical ventilation is the best method of doing this since it gets the hottest air out of the room in a manner in which physics wants it to. Done in a coordinated manner, where the vent team opens up the hole right before the attack team goes into the room it makes things a whole lot safer for the attack team and reduces damage while improving the survival chances of people caught in the room. |
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