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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:18:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:26:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Should have had two engines all along.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:32:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Guess the old bird is getting long in the tooth.
Time to start upgrading. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:37:04 PM EDT
[#4]
TRILLIONS...
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:43:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Wasn't there a big argument over the 2 engine option? And now this comes out..... Hmm.... Not a P&W study I am sure.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:44:10 PM EDT
[#6]
GE J79 - 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner
PW F135 - 43,000 lbf (191.35 kN) with afterburner The F-35's 1 engine has more power than the F-4's 2 engines combined. Yet the F-35 is regularly criticized for being under powered while the F-4 is look back upon, reverently, as being a brick held aloft by the might of its powerful engines. (yes I realize the problem presented in the linked article is much more complex, I just find the above dichotomy amusing) |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:46:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Total goat fuck
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:49:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TRILLIONS... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--JMX7gP9P--/17kdjxvdqvygyjpg.jpg That pretty much sums it up. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:50:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective It doesn't even have the software to shoot its gun yet, so, a lot of good that will do. 
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:55:13 PM EDT
[#10]
I was gonna call it the flying Bradley but that's an insult to the Bradley.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:58:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't even have the software to shoot its gun yet, so, a lot of good that will do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective It doesn't even have the software to shoot its gun yet, so, a lot of good that will do. That's the joke... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:59:11 PM EDT
[#12]
So when is someone going to hang for this? Do you we need to dig up Eisenhower?
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:03:03 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:04:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Maybe we can just roll them down a hill at the enemy?
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:05:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective LOL FPNIA |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:06:23 AM EDT
[#16]
A trillion or so will fix that.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:07:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Maybe the pilot can lean out of the window and shoot 'em with his m9.
Wait, they killed that too, didn't they? Hard to keep up with it all sometimes. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:07:48 AM EDT
[#18]
And they were pimping this as a potential A-10 replacement?
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:08:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Sounds like GE is just butthurt the F-136 didn't get selected
Non-story |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:08:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GE J79 - 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner PW F135 - 43,000 lbf (191.35 kN) with afterburner The F-35's 1 engine has more power than the F-4's 2 engines combined. Yet the F-35 is regularly criticized for being under powered while the F-4 is look back upon, reverently, as being a brick held aloft by the might of its powerful engines. (yes I realize the problem presented in the linked article is much more complex, I just find the above dichotomy amusing) How does the F-4 airframe compare to the F-35? It's all relative. They are saying that because of the advanced airframe of the F-35 those powerful engines are havng to run with afterburner on too much (thus too hot) and even then aren't capable of pushing the airframe to the limits they designed it to handle. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:10:10 AM EDT
[#21]
The Tea Party is credited with killing the second engine. GE/Rolls Royce.... lost the battle.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:10:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How does the F-4 airframe compare to the F-35? It's all relative. They are saying that because of the advanced airframe of the F-35 those powerful engines are havng to run with afterburner on too much (thus too hot) and even then aren't capable of pushing the airframe to the limits they designed it to handle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
GE J79 - 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner PW F135 - 43,000 lbf (191.35 kN) with afterburner The F-35's 1 engine has more power than the F-4's 2 engines combined. Yet the F-35 is regularly criticized for being under powered while the F-4 is look back upon, reverently, as being a brick held aloft by the might of its powerful engines. (yes I realize the problem presented in the linked article is much more complex, I just find the above dichotomy amusing) How does the F-4 airframe compare to the F-35? It's all relative. They are saying that because of the advanced airframe of the F-35 those powerful engines are havng to run with afterburner on too much (thus too hot) and even then aren't capable of pushing the airframe to the limits they designed it to handle. It doesn't say it was to fly with AB more anywhere in that article The entire article reeks of GE bullshit |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:44:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't say it was to fly with AB more anywhere in that article The entire article reeks of GE bullshit Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: GE J79 - 17,835 lbf (79.3 kN) with afterburner PW F135 - 43,000 lbf (191.35 kN) with afterburner The F-35's 1 engine has more power than the F-4's 2 engines combined. Yet the F-35 is regularly criticized for being under powered while the F-4 is look back upon, reverently, as being a brick held aloft by the might of its powerful engines. (yes I realize the problem presented in the linked article is much more complex, I just find the above dichotomy amusing) How does the F-4 airframe compare to the F-35? It's all relative. They are saying that because of the advanced airframe of the F-35 those powerful engines are havng to run with afterburner on too much (thus too hot) and even then aren't capable of pushing the airframe to the limits they designed it to handle. It doesn't say it was to fly with AB more anywhere in that article The entire article reeks of GE bullshit You didn't read the entire article, did you.   |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:51:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Super Hornets FTMFW !!!
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:52:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Pratt & Whitney? Wasn't their crap that almost killed the Mustang?
Maybe the F-35 also needs some Rolls Royce love. 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:55:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pratt & Whitney? Wasn't their crap that almost killed the Mustang? Maybe the F-35 also needs some Rolls Royce love.
Meh... Rolls charges you for parts you don't even need! 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:56:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Un-believable. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:57:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should have had two engines all along. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:09:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should have gone with the F-22 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Should have had two engines all along. I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:12:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Should have had two engines all along. I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. yep. That thing looked awesome |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:14:11 AM EDT
[#31]
Wasnt the F 35 the one with the fuel problem? Or was that the F22?
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:14:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective I thought the guns weren't going to work for a few years yet. They haven't written the software or something. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:16:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Should have had two engines all along. I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. I'm pretty sure it lost because it just looks all wonky and the fighter mafia didn't care for that. 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:21:44 AM EDT
[#34]
This entire F-35 is just one big
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:22:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the guns weren't going to work for a few years yet. They haven't written the software or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah but at least when it's flying slow its guns will be more effective I thought the guns weren't going to work for a few years yet. They haven't written the software or something. Exactly |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:28:49 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pratt & Whitney? Wasn't their crap that almost killed the Mustang? Maybe the F-35 also needs some Rolls Royce love.
No, it was Allison whose engines were in the early Mustangs. Pratt & Whitney powered the F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F8F Bearcat, F7F Tigercat, F4U Corsair, B-50 Superfortress, C-119 Flying Boxcar, B-36 Peacemaker, C-97 Stratofreighter (and -tanker), hell even the Spruce Goose! |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:34:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Should have gone with the F-22 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Should have had two engines all along. The F-22 was never in competition with the F-35. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:35:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Just wait until it needs a bigger fully redesigned fuel system or the new engine needs some exotic fuel or some other ridiculous thing. As was posted above, trillion doller plane, here we come.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:45:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep. That thing looked awesome Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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Should have had two engines all along. I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. yep. That thing looked awesome And the O2 system worked. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:15:26 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And the O2 system worked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Should have had two engines all along. I'm sure you meant YF-23 Black Widow. yep. That thing looked awesome And the O2 system worked. I'm fairly damned certain that both flight demonstrators (the YF-22 and YF-23, which only vaguely resemble the desired product) used LOX, not OBOGS. Had the F-23 been selected, its non-existent OBOGS would also have had to have been developed. And it, too, could have had problems. The YF-23 lost for a reason. It was an incomplete prototype without even a demonstration of its complicated and potentially problematic weapons bay. If Northrop had wanted to win the ATF contract, they should have built an actual proof of concept aircraft showcasing their ability the overcome the highest risk elements in their design. That's what Lockheed did, and it's why Lockheed won. The F-23 might have been a little stealthier, in theory. It offered little else over the F-22. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:34:42 AM EDT
[#41]
This article on, Overall Pressure Ratio, explains some of the design constraints of jet engines.
Add to this the stealth requirement of minimizing the waste heat dumped overboard and you get the problems the F-35 is having. These problems are not a surprise, they were expected, the trick is to find work-arounds, like the variable pressure ratio engine so the engine adapts to the flight situation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overall_pressure_ratio |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:50:03 AM EDT
[#42]
If I recall correctly, the F35 is the first fighter since vietnam to have less than a 1-1 thrust to weight ratio. That engine is working hard to do what it does...so one would assume it is going to get hot and have problems as it isn't all that powerful compared to the mission weight of the aircraft.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:48:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I recall correctly, the F35 is the first fighter since vietnam to have less than a 1-1 thrust to weight ratio. That engine is working hard to do what it does...so one would assume it is going to get hot and have problems as it isn't all that powerful compared to the mission weight of the aircraft. which variant? there are 3; A,B, and C. I think the A version is similar thrust to weight to an F16, but thrust to weight is a pretty general rating. for instance, an F-35A loaded with some JDAMS amd AMRAAMS can store them internally, decreasing the drag over a similarly loaded F16. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:00:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This article on, Overall Pressure Ratio, explains some of the design constraints of jet engines. Add to this the stealth requirement of minimizing the waste heat dumped overboard and you get the problems the F-35 is having. These problems are not a surprise, they were expected, the trick is to find work-arounds, like the variable pressure ratio engine so the engine adapts to the flight situation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overall_pressure_ratio Apparently not, if they are currently in production with said problems. It's time to find and stop the Sino-Russian agents responsible for keeping the F-35 program alive. 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:11:24 AM EDT
[#45]
I wonder if the new engine will be louder than the current one.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:19:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I recall correctly, the F35 is the first fighter since vietnam to have less than a 1-1 thrust to weight ratio. That engine is working hard to do what it does...so one would assume it is going to get hot and have problems as it isn't all that powerful compared to the mission weight of the aircraft. No, Strike Eagles have less than a 1:1 (by a decent amount - they're heavy) (Not sure where you're basing the thrust/weight ratio off of - that statement might be true if you were talking about light weight |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:28:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Just to bring people up to speed on the YF-23.. There was even a thread on ARFCOM ~~ https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1435392
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:35:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
The current F135 engine is at the limits of its capabilities and can’t push the jet out to the outer edges of its airframes capabilities. So it still flies, but it doesn't give pilots a chubby? This is a reason to upgrade the engines on 1500+ aircraft, most of which you haven't even bought yet? You guys really need to cock-punch the folks driving your procurement. They need to learn that they're buying weapons, not Italian sports cars. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:06:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it still flies, but it doesn't give pilots a chubby? This is a reason to upgrade the engines on 1500+ aircraft, most of which you haven't even bought yet? You guys really need to cock-punch the folks driving your procurement. They need to learn that they're buying weapons, not Italian sports cars. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The current F135 engine is at the limits of its capabilities and can’t push the jet out to the outer edges of its airframes capabilities. So it still flies, but it doesn't give pilots a chubby? This is a reason to upgrade the engines on 1500+ aircraft, most of which you haven't even bought yet? You guys really need to cock-punch the folks driving your procurement. They need to learn that they're buying weapons, not Italian sports cars. It brings me back to the original F-14A with its shit TF30 engines. How long did the Navy accept the sub-par performance of the TF30 before they they went with the F-100 engines? 13 years. And even then they didn't re-engine the entire fleet, the Navy was still flying the F-14A right up until it was retired. How many F-14A's were lost due to that craptastic engine? At least this time around they are acknowledging the issue and working a solution instead of hiding their head in the sand. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:08:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TRILLIONS... http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--JMX7gP9P--/17kdjxvdqvygyjpg.jpg 
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