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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:25:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Prepare for the GDer's to rant that if you can't pay cash you're a sucka.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:39:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Yeah we just did too. Dropped the property tax check off a minute ago.
4.75% to 3.75% Reduced our monthly payments by about $290. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:41:11 PM EDT
[#3]
We went from 5% to 4% two and a half years ago. Also dropped PMI for a total savings of $274 a month.
What's the significance of getting your wife's name off the mortgage? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:42:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Went from 7.875% on a 30 year note to 3.75% on a 15 year (after paying for 5 years so reduced it by only 10 years), but the monthly payments only went up a couple of hundred $'s.
Long story how we got stuck in that... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:43:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the significance of getting your wife's name off the mortgage? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:44:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I went from 5.5 to 4.5 a few years ago. I was told not to bother with a refi unless you were saving 1 percent or more.
Do you think I can get a 30 year fixed at 3.5 yet? Maybe later this year? The one thing I don't want to do all over again is pay in (up front cost) to pmi and start my 30 year countdown all over again. I guess if the savings are there, it's worth it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:45:16 PM EDT
[#7]
How much did you shorten the term of the loan?
People love to talk about payments and rates, while not realizing they had 25 years to go and just changed it to a new 30 year loan. You want to go down in rate and length of term. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:45:41 PM EDT
[#8]
We just did 2.875% fixed for 15 down from 3.625 on 30 we got a few years ago. We had 20 years left on the note and purchased the house 7 years ago so it will work out to 22 years total if we don't pay any extra principal going forward.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:50:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much did you shorten the term of the loan? People love to talk about payments and rates, while not realizing they had 25 years to go and just changed it to a new 30 year loan. You want to go down in rate and length of term. Save money now. Get finances right and with money saved make extra payments on the principle and save in long run. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:50:57 PM EDT
[#10]
I financed right around 3.4% when we bought ours, don't think I would be able to match that now though
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:52:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Last Summer I got a 4.25% on 30 years once I made a down payment on our new house. Previous house was 6.25%, our current payment is only $100 more, and we pay extra on the principle every month. Gonna work hard to pay it all by the time I am 50.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:53:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Went from a 4.375 30 year fixed to a 2.5% 15 year fixed.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 4:56:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Not bad. My original loan, 15 year fixed, is 2.75%
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:04:01 PM EDT
[#14]
2 years ago I refinanced. They called me. Went from 5.625% down to 3.5%. At the time I was just under 10 years of a 30. I refinanced for 20 which cut off about 6 months of the original 30. During the paperwork I did not make a house payment. In the end I did not pay anything to refinance and even saved one month payment. Over the 10 years of the original loan my payments had creeped up just over $100. The refinancing took is down about $130.00 per month so I'm now paying less per month than the original 30 year mortgage.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:05:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Why drop the wife off the note?
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:09:14 PM EDT
[#16]
I refi'd one piece of property that was paid for and took that $225,000.00 at 5 1/2% and paid off ten townhouse rental properties that were in the 7.5-8.25% range. Saved me several hundred per month and only have one note instead of ten. Commercial rates are rough!
Bought a beach house a few years back and couldn't get a good rate because I had my name on too many loans. Go figure, someone who pays all their bills on time every time can't get a break. Ended up putting a substantial down payment on the beach house and taking a ten year home equity on the house (paid for) for the balance . |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 6:24:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I refi'd one piece of property that was paid for and took that $225,000.00 at 5 1/2% and paid off ten townhouse rental properties that were in the 7.5-8.25% range. Saved me several hundred per month and only have one note instead of ten. Commercial rates are rough! Bought a beach house a few years back and couldn't get a good rate because I had my name on too many loans. Go figure, someone who pays all their bills on time every time can't get a break. Ended up putting a substantial down payment on the beach house and taking a ten year home equity on the house (paid for) for the balance . Not following that bit. Did you get a home equity loan? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 6:29:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Impressive wife probably had shit credit we see it all the time |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:20:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Wife actually has pretty good credit as well. There was no reason for her to be on the note as she isn't working now so loan was based on my income only. In theory it is better not to have the wife on a note in a recourse state as it limits the bank's ability to go after other assets held in tenancy by the entireties, not that I am planning on a default. To those asking how much time I cut off, I added a year as I was 1 year into a 30 year, no prepayment penalty however and will be making additional principal payments periodically.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:21:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Congrats on getting it done and wife off the mortgage.
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:24:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Looking at the exact same thing. 4.35 currently on a 30 in the house about 1.5 years. Bank eats closing costs
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:24:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Congrats on getting it done and wife off the mortgage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Congrats on getting it done and wife off the mortgage. Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Wife is still on the mortgage, not the note. If a bank lets you remove your wife from a mortgage on property that is jointly titled, they have screwed the pooch. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:27:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Went from a 4.375 30 year fixed to a 2.5% 15 year fixed. I did this in 2013. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:41:30 PM EDT
[#24]
you paid out of pocket, increased loan balance, assuming you increased the loan term as well back to a 30 year term all for $160 a month savings
I would have gone from a 30 year loan at 4.325 to a 20 year loan 3.625, payment wouldn't increase that much and you woulda knocked off 10 years of mortgage payments |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:47:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Went from 7.875% on a 30 year note to 3.75% on a 15 year (after paying for 5 years so reduced it by only 10 years), but the monthly payments only went up a couple of hundred $'s. Long story how we got stuck in that... Did something similar about a year and a half ago.. Went from a 9.3/30y fixed with 22 left to a 3.65 /15 fixed and still dropped payments by about $225.  |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:54:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Bought 2 years ago this month (first home). 3.5% on 30yr fixed. Now I wish I would of looked at the 15yr option as well.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:56:45 PM EDT
[#27]
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/mortgage_rates/ you can see that current rates are towards the lowest that they have been in a year, so if you are looking for a time to re-fi... note: the rates shown on the link above are "primary" rates -basically wholesale. retail rates can be slightly higher -- the people in the middle are getting paid too. for example, here are WF rates: https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ today, using the rates from those two respective sites, WF is 0.125% (1/8th percent) higher than the primary rate. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:57:15 PM EDT
[#28]
30 year 5.5% down to a 15 year 2.625%
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:03:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bought 2 years ago this month (first home). 3.5% on 30yr fixed. Now I wish I would of looked at the 15yr option as well. i don't know about that. given rates today there is not the pressing rush to pay off a note like there would be if rates were substantially higher. assuming you are in a "normal" tax bracket, your 3.5% loan is costing you -- including the mortgage deduction -- about 75% of 3.5%, or approximately 2.6% annually. it is not difficult to achieve an after-tax return of higher than 2.6%. and, odds are it will get easier, not more difficult, to do so over time (the Fed has already signaled a rise in rates). therefore this is a situation where you are better off *not* pre-paying a mortgage note. or said another way, the longer the mortgage term, the better. think about it this way: if your mortgage terms were 0% over 30 years, you'd never pay a nickel in pre-payment. and, given the option of a 15 year or 30 year note at 0%, you would always pick the 30 year note. ps dear GD "all-debt-is-bad" people -- you have to use math, not emotion, sometimes. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:15:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Pretty good deal for you . I'm sitting at 8.75 % right now. Last time I tried to refi it was down to 3.75% which would save me $75 a month. At a cost of $10k. This was VA Regular loan was at 4.75% which lowered my payment from ~$750 to $868 I've got 15 years left on my loan . The fucksticks who run that refi bullshit scam by me get told in no uncertain terms what I think of their scams. Fucking joke |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:18:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you paid out of pocket, increased loan balance, assuming you increased the loan term as well back to a 30 year term all for $160 a month savings I would have gone from a 30 year loan at 4.325 to a 20 year loan 3.625, payment wouldn't increase that much and you woulda knocked off 10 years of mortgage payments You can always pay early. You can't pay off a loan late. And going from a 30 to 20 year term adds about 33% to the monthly payment. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:23:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I just refinanced from 6.25 to 3 percent and dropped 4.5 years off the loan and save $40.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:24:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i don't know about that. given rates today there is not the pressing rush to pay off a note like there would be if rates were substantially higher. assuming you are in a "normal" tax bracket, your 3.5% loan is costing you -- including the mortgage deduction -- about 75% of 3.5%, or approximately 2.6% annually. it is not difficult to achieve an after-tax return of higher than 2.6%. and, odds are it will get easier, not more difficult, to do so over time (the Fed has already signaled a rise in rates). therefore this is a situation where you are better off *not* pre-paying a mortgage note. or said another way, the longer the mortgage term, the better. think about it this way: if your mortgage terms were 0% over 30 years, you'd never pay a nickel in pre-payment. and, given the option of a 15 year or 30 year note at 0%, you would always pick the 30 year note. ps dear GD "all-debt-is-bad" people -- you have to use math, not emotion, sometimes. ar-jedi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bought 2 years ago this month (first home). 3.5% on 30yr fixed. Now I wish I would of looked at the 15yr option as well. i don't know about that. given rates today there is not the pressing rush to pay off a note like there would be if rates were substantially higher. assuming you are in a "normal" tax bracket, your 3.5% loan is costing you -- including the mortgage deduction -- about 75% of 3.5%, or approximately 2.6% annually. it is not difficult to achieve an after-tax return of higher than 2.6%. and, odds are it will get easier, not more difficult, to do so over time (the Fed has already signaled a rise in rates). therefore this is a situation where you are better off *not* pre-paying a mortgage note. or said another way, the longer the mortgage term, the better. think about it this way: if your mortgage terms were 0% over 30 years, you'd never pay a nickel in pre-payment. and, given the option of a 15 year or 30 year note at 0%, you would always pick the 30 year note. ps dear GD "all-debt-is-bad" people -- you have to use math, not emotion, sometimes. ar-jedi Well said. I owe 60k in car payments at 1.85%. I could pay them off at any time, but I'm earning a steady 16% invested. I am about to get a 30 year mortgage without a down payment too. I agree that the debt can easily get out of control and be very damaging; it can also be a great tool to make money. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:34:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty good deal for you . I'm sitting at 8.75 % right now. Last time I tried to refi it was down to 3.75% which would save me $75 a month. At a cost of $10k. This was VA Regular loan was at 4.75% which lowered my payment from ~$750 to $868 I've got 15 years left on my loan . The fucksticks who run that refi bullshit scam by me get told in no uncertain terms what I think of their scams. Fucking joke Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Pretty good deal for you . I'm sitting at 8.75 % right now. Last time I tried to refi it was down to 3.75% which would save me $75 a month. At a cost of $10k. This was VA Regular loan was at 4.75% which lowered my payment from ~$750 to $868 I've got 15 years left on my loan . The fucksticks who run that refi bullshit scam by me get told in no uncertain terms what I think of their scams. Fucking joke i don't understand your logic here. don't get mad, get saving money. assuming you have decent credit (say, >720 or so), you should be able to get -- without even breaking a sweat -- one of the following: either -- a 3.5% APR 15 year fixed with no points and about $500-750 of out of pocket costs https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ or -- a 3.0% APR 15 year fixed with 1% origination https://www.penfed.org/15-Year-Fixed-Mortgage/ ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:46:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i don't understand your logic here. don't get mad, get saving money. assuming you have decent credit (say, >720 or so), you should be able to get -- without even breaking a sweat -- one of the following: either -- a 3.5% APR 15 year fixed with no points and about $500-750 of out of pocket costs https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ or -- a 3.0% APR 15 year fixed with 1% origination https://www.penfed.org/15-Year-Fixed-Mortgage/ ar-jedi Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Pretty good deal for you . I'm sitting at 8.75 % right now. Last time I tried to refi it was down to 3.75% which would save me $75 a month. At a cost of $10k. This was VA Regular loan was at 4.75% which lowered my payment from ~$750 to $868 I've got 15 years left on my loan . The fucksticks who run that refi bullshit scam by me get told in no uncertain terms what I think of their scams. Fucking joke i don't understand your logic here. don't get mad, get saving money. assuming you have decent credit (say, >720 or so), you should be able to get -- without even breaking a sweat -- one of the following: either -- a 3.5% APR 15 year fixed with no points and about $500-750 of out of pocket costs https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ or -- a 3.0% APR 15 year fixed with 1% origination https://www.penfed.org/15-Year-Fixed-Mortgage/ ar-jedi Not mad at all bud, I've tried and tried, it's the home value that is fucking things up. They changed the mortgage insurance rules. Since my house is small and not a McMansion , the value never came back from the housing dump. Fuck the banks, just fuck it, I'm thinking about selling my car and sinking the payment into principal on the house . Love the car so Im still debating 
Soon as the bank sees what the house is worth and what I owe, they just go into blow me off mode. 65k to a bank is a complete waste of time. I think that's why I can't get anyone to actually work it out |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:48:26 PM EDT
[#36]
So....what's the plan for the $160 you'll be saving per month?
Aloha, Mark |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:08:38 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not following that bit. Did you get a home equity loan? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I refi'd one piece of property that was paid for and took that $225,000.00 at 5 1/2% and paid off ten townhouse rental properties that were in the 7.5-8.25% range. Saved me several hundred per month and only have one note instead of ten. Commercial rates are rough! Bought a beach house a few years back and couldn't get a good rate because I had my name on too many loans. Go figure, someone who pays all their bills on time every time can't get a break. Ended up putting a substantial down payment on the beach house and taking a ten year home equity on the house (paid for) for the balance . Not following that bit. Did you get a home equity loan? It was our building/property our business is in. Refinanced it and paid off the rental properties. The other was a home equity loan on our house which we used to buy the house at the beach. Wife wanted it. Been there a handful of times in the past four years. As long as it stays rented, I'm good...lol. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:13:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Converted my 30-year 6.25 to a 15-year 3.5 back in 2011.
I had about 22 years left on the 30-year mortgage. The P&I portion of the payment actually went down about $80 a month or so. The escrow portion (taxes and insurance) went up about $40 so my net gain was about $40 a month. I still try to throw an additional $200-300 a month on the principal to help pay it down as quickly as possible. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:28:17 PM EDT
[#39]
What is a mortgage?
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:45:51 PM EDT
[#40]
We modified our 30year mortgage 01/2013. We started it 06/2009.
Went from 5.25% to 3.5%. The fee was right around $2k and we save $125ish/month, IIRC. Since it was a mod, not a refi, we added no time to the mortgage. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:16:28 PM EDT
[#41]
I spent 10k to refi my 1st and second into a VA loan 2 years ago. dropped from 4.85 and 7.25 to 2.85%. worth everypenny.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:55:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can always pay early. You can't pay off a loan late. And going from a 30 to 20 year term adds about 33% to the monthly payment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: you paid out of pocket, increased loan balance, assuming you increased the loan term as well back to a 30 year term all for $160 a month savings I would have gone from a 30 year loan at 4.325 to a 20 year loan 3.625, payment wouldn't increase that much and you woulda knocked off 10 years of mortgage payments You can always pay early. You can't pay off a loan late. And going from a 30 to 20 year term adds about 33% to the monthly payment. a 30 year loan at 4.325% for $200,000 is $992.68 a month a 20 year loan at 3.625% for $200,000 is $1,172.81 a month, about 18% increase If you had 30 year mortgage and 4 years into it and refinanced for 30 years, that's the same as getting a 34 year mortgage. Yeah can pay early, but knock the years off up front with a shorter term, most people won't have the discipline to pay down a 30 year loan sooner, they'll spend the money on other stuff. Keep paying every extra dollar towards the loan and you'll find you might be able to pay it off in 12 or so years. The last 3 or 4 years is mostly principle and gets harder and harder to knock down the loan term by avoiding the interest. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:47:37 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is a mortgage? it is a financial instrument uniquely suited to taking advantage of low interest rate environments -- one which allows you to borrow money inexpensively and pay it off over a long period of time at a low interest rate, effectively moving a lot of risk to the lender while effectively enabling more optimal asset allocation across potentially better performing financial instruments. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:00:47 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not mad at all bud, I've tried and tried, it's the home value that is fucking things up. They changed the mortgage insurance rules. Since my house is small and not a McMansion , the value never came back from the housing dump. Fuck the banks, just fuck it, I'm thinking about selling my car and sinking the payment into principal on the house . Love the car so Im still debating
Soon as the bank sees what the house is worth and what I owe, they just go into blow me off mode. 65k to a bank is a complete waste of time. I think that's why I can't get anyone to actually work it out Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just signed on the refinance of my home owned for about a year and a half. Went from 4.325 to 3.625 while taking my wife off the note. Closing costs: 60 origination fee, $785 prepaid interest for the month of April, and about $1500 to my old loan to get my loan to value ratio from 60.5% to 60% to qualify for 3.625 % instead of 3.875. Bank paid all other closing costs. Cut my monthly payment by about $160. What have the rest of you been able to lock in over the last few months? Pretty good deal for you . I'm sitting at 8.75 % right now. Last time I tried to refi it was down to 3.75% which would save me $75 a month. At a cost of $10k. This was VA Regular loan was at 4.75% which lowered my payment from ~$750 to $868 I've got 15 years left on my loan . The fucksticks who run that refi bullshit scam by me get told in no uncertain terms what I think of their scams. Fucking joke i don't understand your logic here. don't get mad, get saving money. assuming you have decent credit (say, >720 or so), you should be able to get -- without even breaking a sweat -- one of the following: either -- a 3.5% APR 15 year fixed with no points and about $500-750 of out of pocket costs https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/ or -- a 3.0% APR 15 year fixed with 1% origination https://www.penfed.org/15-Year-Fixed-Mortgage/ ar-jedi Not mad at all bud, I've tried and tried, it's the home value that is fucking things up. They changed the mortgage insurance rules. Since my house is small and not a McMansion , the value never came back from the housing dump. Fuck the banks, just fuck it, I'm thinking about selling my car and sinking the payment into principal on the house . Love the car so Im still debating
Soon as the bank sees what the house is worth and what I owe, they just go into blow me off mode. 65k to a bank is a complete waste of time. I think that's why I can't get anyone to actually work it out it's not a waste of time to you. you are certainly eligible for one or more programs -- HARP, HARM, etc -- hence i would go and talk to the folks at Wells Fargo, at PenFed, and other places and see how they can work up something for you. yes, there are going to be some speedbumps along the way. but sitting on a 8.75% note is not a good situation, as you know. hell, i'll buy that note from you and only charge you 7.75%. APR 
seriously though, my advice would be to create an account over on FatWallet in the Finance Forum (aka FWF, i'll provide a link in a moment) and post up what you have: your mortgage terms, approximate appraisal on your house, and also how long you expect to stay in the house. ask the people there for some ideas, some methods, some brainstorming. believe me, FatWallet Finance (FWF) folks have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MINDSET than typical ARFCOM'ers. FWF'ers are not beholden to the "victimization" in terms of financial matters that ARFCOM'ers are. to this end FWF'ers are not complaining to each other about getting screwed by their bank or credit card company; instead they are incessantly devising ways to screw the bank or credit card company. and, furthermore, to take advantage of prevailing economic conditions whether good or bad. http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/ it will take you 5 minutes to create an account and 5 more minutes to make a post in the Finance forum. you could end up saving thousands of dollars.... ar-jedi |
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