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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:45:25 PM EDT
[#1]
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Of course, people could say that Iran will cheat during any agreement, but that is why it is important to get rigorous inspections as part of any deal, so that verification of Iran's compliance can be ensured. Are you daft? That far right defense hawk group, the IAEA  , themselves announced this week that Iran is not even complying with the inspection agreements that are ALREADY in place.
Iran will NEVER comply with, and NEVER agree to real inspections (meaning anywhere, any time, unannounced) because their true agenda has nothing to do with peaceful nuclear power. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:49:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Iran is going to get the bomb. All we can really do is focus on deterrence so that they never use any of these weapons. And as a safeguard, we need to continue to improve and build upon our missile defense system just in case deterrence fails. We can't just go around launching preemptive attacks against every rogue nation that desires to obtain WMDs. I don't really want to see Iran get the bomb. But there's not really a helluva lot we can do to stop it. I didn't want to see North Korea or Pakistan get nukes either, but they did.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:49:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm tired of WMD's evil stuff.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:57:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Iran is going to get the bomb. All we can really do is focus on deterrence so that they never use any of these weapons. And as a safeguard, we need to continue to improve and build upon our missile defense system just in case deterrence fails. We can't just go around launching preemptive attacks against every rogue nation that desires to obtain WMDs. I don't really want to see Iran get the bomb. But there's not really a helluva lot we can do to stop it. I didn't want to see North Korea or Pakistan get nukes either, but they did. Strongly disagree. Iran is not just another rogue nation. This is not the case of an agenda driven by politics, like in NK or Russia. This is driven by religious extremism. Iran would not hesitate to give the technology to any of its proxy terror groups. They would love nothing more than a chance to use it. Missile defense it useless against a WMD brought in by a cargo ship. Apocalyptic religious extremists must be defeated quickly before they can reach that potential. If it means bombing them every 2-3 years, so be it. The reason NK got the bomb is because nobody had the guts to do anything real to stop it. Once again the Libs were completely convinced that negotiations were the solution. Fortunately, NK is not nearly as serious a problem as the religious extremists in the middle east. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:59:59 PM EDT
[#5]
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Are you daft? That far right defense hawk group, the IAEA , themselves announced this week that Iran is not even complying with the inspection agreements that are ALREADY in place.
Iran will NEVER comply with, and NEVER agree to real inspections (meaning anywhere, any time, unannounced) because their true agenda has nothing to do with peaceful nuclear power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course, people could say that Iran will cheat during any agreement, but that is why it is important to get rigorous inspections as part of any deal, so that verification of Iran's compliance can be ensured. Are you daft? That far right defense hawk group, the IAEA , themselves announced this week that Iran is not even complying with the inspection agreements that are ALREADY in place.
Iran will NEVER comply with, and NEVER agree to real inspections (meaning anywhere, any time, unannounced) because their true agenda has nothing to do with peaceful nuclear power. We just need to talk more and appeal to their feels. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:01:28 PM EDT
[#6]
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It won't be solved until they pull a 9/11 on the U.S. or Israel, after which, if a Republican is in office, we will go all Hiroshima / Nagasaki on their ass. A nuclear 9/11 will likely come from AQ/IS actors with a Pakistani (if multi-stage) device or a homemade nuclear IED using Russian HEU. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:19:23 PM EDT
[#7]
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Bracken alluded to this, but, we could effectively shutdown a major world wide terror supporter if followed his suggestions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The West does not have the stomach to solve non-western problems. We will win every battle in the ME but lose every war because we will refuse to do what is necessary to win the war because it offends our western morals. Bracken alluded to this, but, we could effectively shutdown a major world wide terror supporter if followed his suggestions. You mean instead of enabling them by knocking off their biggest regional rival and letting it turn into an Iranian ally? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#8]
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A nuclear 9/11 will likely come from AQ/IS actors with a Pakistani (if multi-stage) device or a homemade nuclear IED using Russian HEU. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It won't be solved until they pull a 9/11 on the U.S. or Israel, after which, if a Republican is in office, we will go all Hiroshima / Nagasaki on their ass. A nuclear 9/11 will likely come from AQ/IS actors with a Pakistani (if multi-stage) device or a homemade nuclear IED using Russian HEU. Wherever it comes from it will awaken the sleeping Giant again and every bad actor with a nuclear capability is going to get turned into ash and glass. This time let the Generals off the chain. If they don't want to live in Peace then they can be serfs again. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:20:44 PM EDT
[#9]
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Wherever it comes from it will awaken the sleeping Giant again and every bad actor with a nuclear capability is going to get turned into ash and glass. This time let the Generals off the chain. If they don't want to live in Peace then they can be serfs again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It won't be solved until they pull a 9/11 on the U.S. or Israel, after which, if a Republican is in office, we will go all Hiroshima / Nagasaki on their ass. A nuclear 9/11 will likely come from AQ/IS actors with a Pakistani (if multi-stage) device or a homemade nuclear IED using Russian HEU. Wherever it comes from it will awaken the sleeping Giant again and every bad actor with a nuclear capability is going to get turned into ash and glass. This time let the Generals off the chain. If they don't want to live in Peace then they can be serfs again. Lol, no it won't. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:21:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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It might be because they are afraid if they use chemicals, Israel will respond with nukes and knock their sorry fucking asses back to the Stone Age where they will be humping camels instead of the young Iranian boys they prefer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Israel sure is being rocked by all those chemical weapons attacks right now, aren't they. You mean, like the Current Iranian leaders? Which is why those current Iranian leaders are trying to destroy Israel with their chemical weapon stockpile, right? Because they could enough of Israel to cause some extreme death totals. It might be because they are afraid if they use chemicals, Israel will respond with nukes and knock their sorry fucking asses back to the Stone Age where they will be humping camels instead of the young Iranian boys they prefer. But Iran is not afraid of Israel's response if Iran employs nuclear weapons? Seems legit |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:23:27 PM EDT
[#11]
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Boy, boy boy. Are you "LOL'ing" at your comment? I hope so. Quds force is commanding Shi'ite Iraqi forces not Kurdish my friend. The Kurds have long wanted North Iraq, Southern Turkey, and Northern Iran for an independent Kurdish homeland. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Right. We can't invade Iran. We can't bomb Iran. We can't rely on any deal with Iran. Sanctions will not stop them. So, we need to improve our Ballistic Missile Defense Shield in the region, in Europe, and here at home. We also need a more viable deterrent than our own nuclear weapons. We need Kinetic Energy Space Based Weapon Platforms. Time to get busy and defend America. The reality is that not only will Iran go nuclear, but other nations will as well in the future. In the next 50 years we should see probably at least two or three additional nuclear powers. I agree My only caveat being we bomb Iran to set them back to give us more time to build our defenses I'd support bombing if covert actions were deemed not to be a viable solution (assassinations of scientists and sabotage). One thing we could do is truly back the Kurds with military weapons and encourage them to invade Northern Iran where they could create one hell of an insurgency if properly supplied by the USA, but Turkey would probably have a heart attack if we did that. That option should at the very least be used as a stick at our negotiations. Northern Iran has a great deal of ethnic Kurds living there. Not that I expect any deal we would ever work out with them would be honored, but the more inspection rights we had the greater the difficulty at least and that could buy us time. Lol. Iran has good relations with the Kurds. They are helping them in Iraq right now. You'd have a much better chance of starting an insurgency in the south of Iran where there is a large population of Arabs. Boy, boy boy. Are you "LOL'ing" at your comment? I hope so. Quds force is commanding Shi'ite Iraqi forces not Kurdish my friend. The Kurds have long wanted North Iraq, Southern Turkey, and Northern Iran for an independent Kurdish homeland. There's more ways of helping than "commanding" my friend. They were the first to provide the Kurds with arms to battle ISIS, and they helped save Erbil from failing in the early days Of ISIS's invasion. http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/kurdistan-autonomy-isis-mosul-kirkuk-barzani-referendum.html# http://time.com/3196580/iran-kurds-isis-erbil-iraq/ The Kurds have a relationship with Iran going all the way back to the 90's where they helped the Kurds in their fight against Saddam. The Iranians and the Turks have cooperated in the past in suppressing the PKK, but Iran has managed to maintain stable relations with the Kurds in North Iraq for over 20 years. In other words, stay in your lane and stfu. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:31:52 PM EDT
[#12]
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Well unless you're 0bama. I don't think WE should be used . 
HE missed the boat. Or rather he actually. Wanted to SINK THE BOAT!  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We'd be better off fomenting regime change subversively in Iran. We missed the boat on that one.  Well unless you're 0bama. I don't think WE should be used .
HE missed the boat. Or rather he actually. Wanted to SINK THE BOAT! No... It's we. Because like it or not, he's leading our boat, and we're all along for the ride. We aren't riding in some separate boat off in distant waters. 
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:37:51 PM EDT
[#13]
I believe it will be SA that will be decimated if and when Iran gets the bomb. Jerusalem is no good to them irradiated.
Interesting read on the subject; |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't make the robber upset, he might rob you. Just give him you wallet. Don't make no trouble. 
Considering the consequences of a strike, and knowing that you aren't going to achieve your objectives through a strike, it makes a strike a bad idea. What about that is unclear to you? If they build a bomb...like you presume later in your post.....what is the sacrosanct NPT really worth? They haven't been burning up white papers in Tehran talking about how to deal with the dreaded NPT. Who said the NPT ever was worth anything? Clearly, the original intent of the NPT has been abandoned and was a sham to begin with. When the NPT was originally drafted, the original members of the nuclear club agreed that they would move toward nuclear disarmament. Obviously, that never happened, or will happen. Instead, the current context in which the NPT exists, where the Nuclear states have abandoned all notion of disarmament, only further highlights the distinct disparities between the nuclear haves and have nots. This will always provide incentive for the non-nuclear states to abandon their obligations under the NPT as well. We're giving them a blank check to build nukes if we don't stop them, as you've already alluded to. A deal that puts "verifiable" constraints on Iran's program that ensure they do not race toward a bomb is "stopping them". And if done this way, stopping them comes at a drastically reduced cost... In fact, it will actually be a net gain. With Iranian oil back on the market, the price will plummet even further, helping the world economy. (The fact that it will take an even bigger bite out of Russia's pocket book is another bonus.) PEACE IN OUR TIME.
Seriously.........go back through and re-read what you typed. Seriously... That's not an argument. All the people in this thread that are saying bomb Iran are totally ignorant to the consequences. They have no idea what to do the day after the bombs fall. They have no plan, or concept, of how they would manage the second and third order effects from such an operation. Any moron can say drop bombs on XYZ. It's the aftermath and the chaos that follows that is the problem. Good luck with that General Chairborne Ranger. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. I could talk at length about the potential for such strikes to trigger a conflict that escalates out of control and threatens to engulf the whole region in war.... About losing escalation dominance, about miscalculation and brinkmanship... All of which could go horribly wrong and lead to a war we never intended. But most people's eyes would just glaze over as they derped themselves back into their fantasy world of bombing Iran while furiously masterbating. Maybe you can have Hans Blix an El-Bareadi lead the effort. Hard men for a hard task. Were you and Marie Harf study buddies for your Poli Sci classes? No, we were't. Did you and John Bolton go to Toni and Guy's beauty college together? Jesus Fucking Christ In bold.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:04:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you daft? That far right defense hawk group, the IAEA , themselves announced this week that Iran is not even complying with the inspection agreements that are ALREADY in place.
Iran will NEVER comply with, and NEVER agree to real inspections (meaning anywhere, any time, unannounced) because their true agenda has nothing to do with peaceful nuclear power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course, people could say that Iran will cheat during any agreement, but that is why it is important to get rigorous inspections as part of any deal, so that verification of Iran's compliance can be ensured. Are you daft? That far right defense hawk group, the IAEA , themselves announced this week that Iran is not even complying with the inspection agreements that are ALREADY in place.
Iran will NEVER comply with, and NEVER agree to real inspections (meaning anywhere, any time, unannounced) because their true agenda has nothing to do with peaceful nuclear power. Well, if you really want to extend that logic out, and be a true skeptic, you could make the case that even if Iran did grant unfettered access on their soil, they could still be cheating outside the country. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1733794_Does_Iran_Have_Secret_Nukes_Hidden_in_North_Korea__If_so__this_Agreement_is_Moot.html We'll see what Iran agrees to. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:14:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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Strongly disagree. Iran is not just another rogue nation. This is not the case of an agenda driven by politics, like in NK or Russia. This is driven by religious extremism. Iran would not hesitate to give the technology to any of its proxy terror groups. They would love nothing more than a chance to use it. Missile defense it useless against a WMD brought in by a cargo ship. Apocalyptic religious extremists must be defeated quickly before they can reach that potential. If it means bombing them every 2-3 years, so be it. The reason NK got the bomb is because nobody had the guts to do anything real to stop it. Once again the Libs were completely convinced that negotiations were the solution. Fortunately, NK is not nearly as serious a problem as the religious extremists in the middle east. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Iran is going to get the bomb. All we can really do is focus on deterrence so that they never use any of these weapons. And as a safeguard, we need to continue to improve and build upon our missile defense system just in case deterrence fails. We can't just go around launching preemptive attacks against every rogue nation that desires to obtain WMDs. I don't really want to see Iran get the bomb. But there's not really a helluva lot we can do to stop it. I didn't want to see North Korea or Pakistan get nukes either, but they did. Strongly disagree. Iran is not just another rogue nation. This is not the case of an agenda driven by politics, like in NK or Russia. This is driven by religious extremism. Iran would not hesitate to give the technology to any of its proxy terror groups. They would love nothing more than a chance to use it. Missile defense it useless against a WMD brought in by a cargo ship. Apocalyptic religious extremists must be defeated quickly before they can reach that potential. If it means bombing them every 2-3 years, so be it. The reason NK got the bomb is because nobody had the guts to do anything real to stop it. Once again the Libs were completely convinced that negotiations were the solution. Fortunately, NK is not nearly as serious a problem as the religious extremists in the middle east. Nothing you just said is supported by Iran's past actions. They have never passed any of their proxies WMD in the past. You think they're going to start giving away nukes (strategic assets) the minute they develop them? Hell no. They would never give up control over those weapons because they would be held directly responsible for their use. There are ways to trace back the nuclear material used in a bomb to the source. No way is Iran going to take the chance of putting themselves at risk for nuclear retaliation because one of their proxies decided to slip their chain and go Ackbar Strangelove somewhere in the region. Secondly, Iran's leaders aren't driven by religious extremism. The leadership is driven by a desire to aggressively pursue what they perceive to be their national interests. They want to become the dominant power in the Persian Gulf. They don't want to die. They want to live and enjoy the fruits of their power and influence in the region. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:15:48 PM EDT
[#17]
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Violence has solved every problem known to man, it will work in this situation also. Roll credits. This thread is done! |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:18:00 PM EDT
[#18]
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Bombing Iran is a bad plan. Lifting the sanctions is a 10x worse plan. this "... there are only bad ideas. This is the best one." welcome to the fututre 
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:57:49 PM EDT
[#19]
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No, we were't. Did you and John Bolton go to Toni and Guy's beauty college together? I wish. I'd love to have John Bolton hair.......or John Edwards hair. My shit doesn't style well at all. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:52:25 AM EDT
[#20]
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I have a simple solution, and it involves thermodynamics and a whole lotta glass You are clear to press the "Go" button: 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:03:48 AM EDT
[#21]
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Meh....opinion piece written by an anti-war peacenik. Fucking peaceniks get a lot of people killed. The wrong people, usually. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:06:59 AM EDT
[#22]
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Use the same strategy that Reagan used with the Soviets, such as: - Bankrupt them. Make it tough for them to get credit, make financial transactions. - Threaten to bomb/invade them. Make them spend money/resources in defense. - Increase sanctions. Make it tough on their economy. - Isolate them. Make it tough for them to travel to developed countries. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Khrushchev banged his shoe on the table at the UN and shouted 'WE WILL BURY YOU!' No one felt the need to wet their pants and press the red button. Quoted:
I'M ALL EARS WHAT'S YOUR PLAN? Use the same strategy that Reagan used with the Soviets, such as: - Bankrupt them. Make it tough for them to get credit, make financial transactions. - Threaten to bomb/invade them. Make them spend money/resources in defense. - Increase sanctions. Make it tough on their economy. - Isolate them. Make it tough for them to travel to developed countries. This. Bombing them isn't a long term plan. It's a stop gap measure until you can come up with a real idea. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:24:59 AM EDT
[#23]
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The problem with bombing is that it's kinda like sucking dick. You can't do it a little and hope the guy will be a little less horny. If you're gonna start, you gotta keep sucking until the job's done, otherwise the outcome is the opposite of what you intended. Same with bombing. 
Jane speaks the truth. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:31:51 AM EDT
[#24]
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Perhaps not, compared to you, but enough to know that a half-blown guy tends to be irritable. Same as a half bombed country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with bombing is that it's kinda like sucking dick. You can't do it a little and hope the guy will be a little less horny. If you're gonna start, you gotta keep sucking until the job's done, otherwise the outcome is the opposite of what you intended. Same with bombing. are you an expert at dick sucking?  Perhaps not, compared to you, but enough to know that a half-blown guy tends to be irritable. Same as a half bombed country.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:45:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Bla bla bla . . .We are close to a nuclear deal with Iran bla bla . . . . Typical antiwar sheep mentality. Peace at any cost. Nevermind that this "deal" is absolutely horrible, hey let's run with it and call it a day! Yay peace! 10 years later Iran is nuked up, and their neighbors all want nukes now too. Now you have the most mentally unstable fucks on the planet in a nuclear arms race, all because weak, naive, cowards had to have a "deal" under their belts. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:50:16 AM EDT
[#26]
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IF we intend to stop Iran from developing a nuke, the only real solution is to blow shit up. If blowing shit up is too much a stretch we'd better get used to a nuclear armed Iran, and that leads to a nuclear armed Saudi Arabia too. And one of those fuckers will use one on Israel, and then the real fun begins........
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:54:12 AM EDT
[#27]
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No, I can not see that scenario. Not realistically. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Weaksauce argument based on vapor. Iran isn't going to start nuking Israel. Israel sure is being rocked by all those chemical weapons attacks right now, aren't they. No, I can not see that scenario. Not realistically. Sorry, then you are a fool. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:08:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Some folks in this thread have delusional levels of trust in the sanity and fitness of the leadership in Iran, Israel and Saudi Arabia combined.
Even a serious discussion of command authority and asset security will make the inevitable consequences of a nuclear Iran quite clear. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:12:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Get "a bigger hammer always" works well for me
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:28:15 AM EDT
[#30]
And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. Zechariah 14:12 |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:54:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. We can't invade Iran. We can't bomb Iran. We can't rely on any deal with Iran. Sanctions will not stop them. So, we need to improve our Ballistic Missile Defense Shield in the region, in Europe, and here at home. We also need a more viable deterrent than our own nuclear weapons. We need Kinetic Energy Space Based Weapon Platforms. Time to get busy and defend America. The reality is that not only will Iran go nuclear, but other nations will as well in the future. In the next 50 years we should see probably at least two or three additional nuclear powers. As a matter of fact they would likely wait until they had a dozen or more luring the West into a blind stupor while the pro Islamic forces continue to deflect the truth from the general population. It would not take much planning to schedule the arrival of the special shipments to coincide some 3 to 6 weapons arrivals in world ports. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 5:08:31 AM EDT
[#32]
FBHO
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:26:37 AM EDT
[#33]
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Oh so in addition to showing me Khomeini's willingness to become a martyr, you've got to show me that Iran's nuclear program is controlled by anyone other than the very highest reaches of Iran's government. You've got a lot of work to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Whoever said that never fought in the ME. I've seen plenty of people that sought out their death as martyrdom. I had to help pick up pieces of a couple of them. That quote completely fails to comprehend the willingness of a religion to sacrafice for an eventual goal. This is not about Iran or Iraq. It is a global islamic movement with specific goals that would sacrafice any single country without blinking if that sacrafice furthered their goals. Martyrs are celebrated. Parents are proud when their children martyr themselves. It isn't a bad thing in their culture...it is welcomed and encouraged. That is the direct opposite of the Russian example and why the two don't line up. The dirt farmers and morons of the middle east don't matter in this analysis. Show me Ayatollah Khomeini's willingness to become a martyr, and you'll have a point. You think Khomeini is actually in charge at the micro and macro level. How cute. Oh so in addition to showing me Khomeini's willingness to become a martyr, you've got to show me that Iran's nuclear program is controlled by anyone other than the very highest reaches of Iran's government. You've got a lot of work to do. You can try to paint yourself into a corner all you want. None of your points are correct. First, Khomeni doesn't have to become a martyr...he simply gets on a plane just like anyone else in the ruling class who knows what is coming and avoids the return fire. Have you never looked at continuation of government plans from the cold war? Leaders have plans to avoid their death. He ends up a sympathetic victim of zionist aggression and a hero of the Shia people who exist in large numbers worldwide. You fail to understand the goals of the global jihadist movement. How can you begin to comprehend this topic when you haven't understood the basic goals of the ideology and movement? You fail at the 101 level concepts and are trying to talk foreign policy? How very GD of you. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:33:24 AM EDT
[#34]
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................ You can try to paint yourself into a corner all you want. None of your points are correct. First, Khomeni doesn't have to become a martyr...he simply gets on a plane just like anyone else in the ruling class who knows what is coming and avoids the return fire. Have you never looked at continuation of government plans from the cold war? Leaders have plans to avoid their death. He ends up a sympathetic victim of zionist aggression and a hero of the Shia people who exist in large numbers worldwide. You fail to understand the goals of the global jihadist movement. How can you begin to comprehend this topic when you haven't understood the basic goals of the ideology and movement? You fail at the 101 level concepts and are trying to talk foreign policy? How very GD of you. Nah, Iran just wants to protect themselves from the nasty Jews and stuff. They would never be the aggressor in any conflict or negotiations...........they are for peace and stuff. Their leaders are real nice people who want to be loved and respected..........they are tired of being misunderstood and stuff. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:46:13 AM EDT
[#35]
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An Iranian nuke will not arrive over NYC via any missiles. It will be buried in a container ship in a lead lined container. An improved SCUD would work for the Jews tho. Bye bye Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. As a matter of fact they would likely wait until they had a dozen or more luring the West into a blind stupor while the pro Islamic forces continue to deflect the truth from the general population. It would not take much planning to schedule the arrival of the special shipments to coincide some 3 to 6 weapons arrivals in world ports. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Right. We can't invade Iran. We can't bomb Iran. We can't rely on any deal with Iran. Sanctions will not stop them. So, we need to improve our Ballistic Missile Defense Shield in the region, in Europe, and here at home. We also need a more viable deterrent than our own nuclear weapons. We need Kinetic Energy Space Based Weapon Platforms. Time to get busy and defend America. The reality is that not only will Iran go nuclear, but other nations will as well in the future. In the next 50 years we should see probably at least two or three additional nuclear powers. As a matter of fact they would likely wait until they had a dozen or more luring the West into a blind stupor while the pro Islamic forces continue to deflect the truth from the general population. It would not take much planning to schedule the arrival of the special shipments to coincide some 3 to 6 weapons arrivals in world ports. This. People are so uninformed with regards to the goals and objectives of the global jihadist movement. It doesn't require destruction of America. It requires that America be too weak or busy to intervene. That is a pretty easy standard to achieve. You simply collapse the economy. On 9-11, we bagan an economic cycle that cost us in the neighborhood of a TRILLION dollars. The largest concern post 9-11 wsnt a terrorist attack that would cost lives...it was whether the US Economy could survive another hit without us ending up in a a depression. The loss of NYC would easily cost us a trillion and could spark a world-wide depression. A non attributable bomb in the hand of a small splinter jihadist group gives deniability and could literally spark a world-wide depression if used correctly. There would be nobody to retalliate against and it is questionable as to whether it would improve the situation to do so. I poke fun at the air force for the "think strategic" comments, but it is true. This requires some strategic thinking. It isn't won on the battlefield. It is won economically, diplomatically, and militarilly...together. Look at the arab ways of war. How have they been successful over the years? Americans joke that they can't fight a stand up linear war with armor moving across the desert in waves...true...but they don't need to if they think strategically. They win through strategic assaults on alliances, economies, and resources. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:03:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There isn't one, at least not militarily. Iran will acquire nuclear weapons, regardless of what we do. Technology progresses. Weaponry gets more potent. The ease with which nations can produce nuclear weapons will continue to increase. Edit: Best bet is to continue the campaign of killing scientists and sabotaging equipment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I heard a guy say there are 4 known facilities right now, that if hit with ordnance we have now, would put them back as much as 10 years. Eta: some of it is already under ground. And in 5 years, when they've rebuilt and are working again, what do we do? Bomb them again? Perpetual bombing. This plan seems brilliant. I'M ALL EARS WHAT'S YOUR PLAN? There isn't one, at least not militarily. Iran will acquire nuclear weapons, regardless of what we do. Technology progresses. Weaponry gets more potent. The ease with which nations can produce nuclear weapons will continue to increase. Edit: Best bet is to continue the campaign of killing scientists and sabotaging equipment. You are all over the page. Bombing wont work so we should bomb them to destroy their equipment?  Ill add, the reason they haven't gassed the Israelis is due to Israel having the bomb. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:21:00 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. People are so uninformed with regards to the goals and objectives of the global jihadist movement. It doesn't require destruction of America. It requires that America be too weak or busy to intervene. That is a pretty easy standard to achieve. You simply collapse the economy. On 9-11, we bagan an economic cycle that cost us in the neighborhood of a TRILLION dollars. The largest concern post 9-11 wsnt a terrorist attack that would cost lives...it was whether the US Economy could survive another hit without us ending up in a a depression. The loss of NYC would easily cost us a trillion and could spark a world-wide depression. A non attributable bomb in the hand of a small splinter jihadist group gives deniability and could literally spark a world-wide depression if used correctly. There would be nobody to retalliate against and it is questionable as to whether it would improve the situation to do so. I poke fun at the air force for the "think strategic" comments, but it is true. This requires some strategic thinking. It isn't won on the battlefield. It is won economically, diplomatically, and militarilly...together. Look at the arab ways of war. How have they been successful over the years? Americans joke that they can't fight a stand up linear war with armor moving across the desert in waves...true...but they don't need to if they think strategically. They win through strategic assaults on alliances, economies, and resources. And how much of the cost of the 9-11 attacks was due not to the attacks themselves, but by our over reaction to those attacks? We were in a serious recession prior to 9-11 as a result of the bursting tech bubble. Then, we began the creation of a mammoth national security apparatus that brought us the Patriot Act, NSA monitoring the communications of US citizens, and high school dropouts frisking grandma at the airport. Does anyone think that the sprawling layers of overlapping bureaucratic ineptitude actually makes us safer? Our military doctrine moved from preemption to prevention, and on flimsy "evidence" provided by questionable sources we invaded and occupied Iraq, which had, ongoing nuclear weapons program and no ties to AQ, and served as a regional counterweight to Iran...until we knocked off SH. How much did maintaining 100K+ troops in Iraq, a 2.0 CSG presence in the Gulf, etc cost us out of that trillion dollars? Your argument is filled with coulds, mights, and appeals to emotion. A non-attributable bomb? Iran, unlike Iraq, actually has active WMD programs. Why haven't they given non-attributable chem/bio weapons to those jihadi groups. Slime Wall Street, slime the Pentagon, slime congress, etc. that would spark similar consequences and yet, that hasn't happened. As far as The Arab ways of war focusing on alliances, resources, and economies, nothing fracturs alliances and bankrupts economies like Imperal overreach. The US went from enjoying near universal support during OEF to the much smaller coalition of the willing in Iraq. In any case, I thought we were talking about Persians in Iran, not Arabs. If you want to bust alliances and break our economy, launch an invasion and occupation of Iran over an issue that is non-existential for the US. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:42:55 AM EDT
[#38]
I want to wake up one morning with Obama announcing that the last B-2 bomber has left Iranian airspace after successfully bombing all major nuclear facilities. Any other action by Obama is treason. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:12:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how much of the cost of the 9-11 attacks was due not to the attacks themselves, but by our over reaction to those attacks? We were in a serious recession prior to 9-11 as a result of the bursting tech bubble. Then, we began the creation of a mammoth national security apparatus that brought us the Patriot Act, NSA monitoring the communications of US citizens, and high school dropouts frisking grandma at the airport. Does anyone think that the sprawling layers of overlapping bureaucratic ineptitude actually makes us safer? Our military doctrine moved from preemption to prevention, and on flimsy "evidence" provided by questionable sources we invaded and occupied Iraq, which had, ongoing nuclear weapons program and no ties to AQ, and served as a regional counterweight to Iran...until we knocked off SH. How much did maintaining 100K+ troops in Iraq, a 2.0 CSG presence in the Gulf, etc cost us out of that trillion dollars? Your argument is filled with coulds, mights, and appeals to emotion. A non-attributable bomb? Iran, unlike Iraq, actually has active WMD programs. Why haven't they given non-attributable chem/bio weapons to those jihadi groups. Slime Wall Street, slime the Pentagon, slime congress, etc. that would spark similar consequences and yet, that hasn't happened. As far as The Arab ways of war focusing on alliances, resources, and economies, nothing fracturs alliances and bankrupts economies like Imperal overreach. The US went from enjoying near universal support during OEF to the much smaller coalition of the willing in Iraq. In any case, I thought we were talking about Persians in Iran, not Arabs. If you want to bust alliances and break our economy, launch an invasion and occupation of Iran over an issue that is non-existential for the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This. People are so uninformed with regards to the goals and objectives of the global jihadist movement. It doesn't require destruction of America. It requires that America be too weak or busy to intervene. That is a pretty easy standard to achieve. You simply collapse the economy. On 9-11, we bagan an economic cycle that cost us in the neighborhood of a TRILLION dollars. The largest concern post 9-11 wsnt a terrorist attack that would cost lives...it was whether the US Economy could survive another hit without us ending up in a a depression. The loss of NYC would easily cost us a trillion and could spark a world-wide depression. A non attributable bomb in the hand of a small splinter jihadist group gives deniability and could literally spark a world-wide depression if used correctly. There would be nobody to retalliate against and it is questionable as to whether it would improve the situation to do so. I poke fun at the air force for the "think strategic" comments, but it is true. This requires some strategic thinking. It isn't won on the battlefield. It is won economically, diplomatically, and militarilly...together. Look at the arab ways of war. How have they been successful over the years? Americans joke that they can't fight a stand up linear war with armor moving across the desert in waves...true...but they don't need to if they think strategically. They win through strategic assaults on alliances, economies, and resources. And how much of the cost of the 9-11 attacks was due not to the attacks themselves, but by our over reaction to those attacks? We were in a serious recession prior to 9-11 as a result of the bursting tech bubble. Then, we began the creation of a mammoth national security apparatus that brought us the Patriot Act, NSA monitoring the communications of US citizens, and high school dropouts frisking grandma at the airport. Does anyone think that the sprawling layers of overlapping bureaucratic ineptitude actually makes us safer? Our military doctrine moved from preemption to prevention, and on flimsy "evidence" provided by questionable sources we invaded and occupied Iraq, which had, ongoing nuclear weapons program and no ties to AQ, and served as a regional counterweight to Iran...until we knocked off SH. How much did maintaining 100K+ troops in Iraq, a 2.0 CSG presence in the Gulf, etc cost us out of that trillion dollars? Your argument is filled with coulds, mights, and appeals to emotion. A non-attributable bomb? Iran, unlike Iraq, actually has active WMD programs. Why haven't they given non-attributable chem/bio weapons to those jihadi groups. Slime Wall Street, slime the Pentagon, slime congress, etc. that would spark similar consequences and yet, that hasn't happened. As far as The Arab ways of war focusing on alliances, resources, and economies, nothing fracturs alliances and bankrupts economies like Imperal overreach. The US went from enjoying near universal support during OEF to the much smaller coalition of the willing in Iraq. In any case, I thought we were talking about Persians in Iran, not Arabs. If you want to bust alliances and break our economy, launch an invasion and occupation of Iran over an issue that is non-existential for the US. Go to war college and you can get the full version of what I wrote. Simplified for a forum post... Chem weapons are a strategic joke. They are hard to employ, difficult to transport, and have a relatively small effect on target that is easily cleaned up. Speed bumps...the Fire Dept is called to solve them. That isn't much of a weapon. Frankly, if you think the US is an imperialist overreaching surveillance state, you and I are never going to be on the same page...you and Obama are on the same paragraph on the same page though, so you got that going for you. It should work out for you. Obama will ensure that America is taken down a peg or two so that you don't have to worry about the mean Americans being a superpower in the world anymore. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:21:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IF we intend to stop Iran from developing a nuke, the only real solution is to blow shit up. If blowing shit up is too much a stretch we'd better get used to a nuclear armed Iran, and that leads to a nuclear armed Saudi Arabia too. THIS is the TRUTH. Our government are a bunch of pussies. I'm sure Israel will have to go it alone to blow shit up. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:26:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You fail at the 101 level concepts and are trying to talk foreign policy? How very GD of you. GD is the place where people that supported the Iraq war try to lecture others on foreign policy. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:48:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Iran is going to get the bomb. All we can really do is focus on deterrence so that they never use any of these weapons. And as a safeguard, we need to continue to improve and build upon our missile defense system just in case deterrence fails. We can't just go around launching preemptive attacks against every rogue nation that desires to obtain WMDs. I don't really want to see Iran get the bomb. But there's not really a helluva lot we can do to stop it. I didn't want to see North Korea or Pakistan get nukes either, but they did. Agreed. We just need to make a solid commitment to remove Iran from the planet if they use or facilitate in any way the use of their nukes or spread the tech to any who do. If we stipulate that they have the right to nuclear weapons, then they must accept the responsibility that comes with them. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:51:22 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are all over the page.
Bombing wont work so we should bomb them to destroy their equipment?
Ill add, the reason they haven't gassed the Israelis is due to Israel having the bomb. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I heard a guy say there are 4 known facilities right now, that if hit with ordnance we have now, would put them back as much as 10 years. Eta: some of it is already under ground. And in 5 years, when they've rebuilt and are working again, what do we do? Bomb them again? Perpetual bombing. This plan seems brilliant. I'M ALL EARS WHAT'S YOUR PLAN? There isn't one, at least not militarily. Iran will acquire nuclear weapons, regardless of what we do. Technology progresses. Weaponry gets more potent. The ease with which nations can produce nuclear weapons will continue to increase. Edit: Best bet is to continue the campaign of killing scientists and sabotaging equipment. You are all over the page.
Bombing wont work so we should bomb them to destroy their equipment?
Ill add, the reason they haven't gassed the Israelis is due to Israel having the bomb. Sabotage has nothing to do with bombing. I don't know how you reached the conclusion that I'm saying to bomb their equipment.
So they won't gas Israel because Israel has the bomb, but they will nuke Israel even though Israel has the bomb. Sure. That makes perfect sense.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:53:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Bombing them isn't a long term plan. It's a stop gap measure until you can come up with a real idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Use the same strategy that Reagan used with the Soviets, such as: - Bankrupt them. Make it tough for them to get credit, make financial transactions. - Threaten to bomb/invade them. Make them spend money/resources in defense. - Increase sanctions. Make it tough on their economy. - Isolate them. Make it tough for them to travel to developed countries. This. Bombing them isn't a long term plan. It's a stop gap measure until you can come up with a real idea. And those methods work when the bad guy realizes you'll fuck him up. Iran isn't being forced to choose between imminent doom or compliance. They won't fear the next President either. The biggest threat we have is making them sit in a room with Kerry for weeks on end. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:58:15 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to wake up one morning with Obama announcing that the last B-2 bomber has left Iranian airspace after successfully bombing all major nuclear facilities. Any other action by Obama is treason. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Seriously? This idiocy needs to stop. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:06:19 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GD is the place where people that supported the Iraq war try to lecture others on foreign policy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You fail at the 101 level concepts and are trying to talk foreign policy? How very GD of you. GD is the place where people that supported the Iraq war try to lecture others on foreign policy. The Iraq war was awesome. I bought a house after coming home and took some cool vacations...and paid cash for a truck. Plus we killed tens of thousands of stinky bearded insurgents, so there was that too. Oh, and we slaughtered AQ core to the point that the worlds leading Sunni terrorist group was broken to a level that they never recovered with upwards of 98% of their known members that were alive on 9-11-01 either dead or in prison. So, yeah, it was a good time. Fond memories. Money...dead insurgents...bad guys on the run, hiding from the justice that came via hellfire. Now the bad guys are seen as honest brokers in a negotiation about how they will get to kill us in the future. Yeah, this way is much better. That appeasement shit is the hottness. It will totally work this time...really
Don't knock war because your boy fucked up the end game. We were winning when I left. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:07:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You fail to understand the goals of the global jihadist movement. How can you begin to comprehend this topic when you haven't understood the basic goals of the ideology and movement? Oh God, now we're lumping Shia Iran in with the Sunni jihadist movement. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:08:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as The Arab ways of war focusing on alliances, resources, and economies, nothing fracturs alliances and bankrupts economies like Imperal overreach. The US went from enjoying near universal support during OEF to the much smaller coalition of the willing in Iraq. In any case, I thought we were talking about Persians in Iran, not Arabs. If you want to bust alliances and break our economy, launch an invasion and occupation of Iran over an issue that is non-existential for the US. He assumed you didn't know that. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go to war college and you can get the full version of what I wrote. Simplified for a forum post... Chem weapons are a strategic joke. They are hard to employ, difficult to transport, and have a relatively small effect on target that is easily cleaned up. Speed bumps...the Fire Dept is called to solve them. That isn't much of a weapon. Frankly, if you think the US is an imperialist overreaching surveillance state, you and I are never going to be on the same page...you and Obama are on the same paragraph on the same page though, so you got that going for you. It should work out for you. Obama will ensure that America is taken down a peg or two so that you don't have to worry about the mean Americans being a superpower in the world anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And how much of the cost of the 9-11 attacks was due not to the attacks themselves, but by our over reaction to those attacks? We were in a serious recession prior to 9-11 as a result of the bursting tech bubble. Then, we began the creation of a mammoth national security apparatus that brought us the Patriot Act, NSA monitoring the communications of US citizens, and high school dropouts frisking grandma at the airport. Does anyone think that the sprawling layers of overlapping bureaucratic ineptitude actually makes us safer? Our military doctrine moved from preemption to prevention, and on flimsy "evidence" provided by questionable sources we invaded and occupied Iraq, which had, ongoing nuclear weapons program and no ties to AQ, and served as a regional counterweight to Iran...until we knocked off SH. How much did maintaining 100K+ troops in Iraq, a 2.0 CSG presence in the Gulf, etc cost us out of that trillion dollars? Your argument is filled with coulds, mights, and appeals to emotion. A non-attributable bomb? Iran, unlike Iraq, actually has active WMD programs. Why haven't they given non-attributable chem/bio weapons to those jihadi groups. Slime Wall Street, slime the Pentagon, slime congress, etc. that would spark similar consequences and yet, that hasn't happened. As far as The Arab ways of war focusing on alliances, resources, and economies, nothing fracturs alliances and bankrupts economies like Imperal overreach. The US went from enjoying near universal support during OEF to the much smaller coalition of the willing in Iraq. In any case, I thought we were talking about Persians in Iran, not Arabs. If you want to bust alliances and break our economy, launch an invasion and occupation of Iran over an issue that is non-existential for the US. Go to war college and you can get the full version of what I wrote. Simplified for a forum post... Chem weapons are a strategic joke. They are hard to employ, difficult to transport, and have a relatively small effect on target that is easily cleaned up. Speed bumps...the Fire Dept is called to solve them. That isn't much of a weapon. Frankly, if you think the US is an imperialist overreaching surveillance state, you and I are never going to be on the same page...you and Obama are on the same paragraph on the same page though, so you got that going for you. It should work out for you. Obama will ensure that America is taken down a peg or two so that you don't have to worry about the mean Americans being a superpower in the world anymore. Seriously H46driver, you should go to a war college, and then probably serve on a CCDR staff. Too bad JFCOM isn't around then you'd have a good perspective on these things. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:10:55 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. You're back!
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