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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:12:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: "What was really novel was the use of real estate to address crime,” aka "profiling". Mortage lenders ran afoul of using the same technique to deny loans and got sued for "red lining" That being said, profiling works, who doesn't want 50% less crime? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:17:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This guy gets it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So who is the "lucky" community? 
East Liberty just pushed out to Point Breeze, Fox Chapel (Don't want to believe me? Go to the new Market District) Wilkinsburg (whatever isn't already bombed out slums), Penn Hills, Plum, & Monroeville. It just pushes east near mass transit. Look for a busway. Roughly following an old plumbing adage, East in Pgh is approximately downhill and don't chew your fingernails. This guy gets it. Yup. I get to live it. Leaving the area soon. Where's Merrell? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:25:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. The cancer spread ... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:40:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The cancer spread ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. The cancer spread ... Which was the whole idea. Re-normalizing the suburbs to be just as crime-ridden as the inner city, if not more so. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 8:51:07 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. Yep. 
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Posted: 3/30/2015 9:30:56 AM EDT
[#6]
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Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. Cleveland didn't notice the uptick. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:42:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:51:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. I get to live it. <snip> North Side here. I'm within staggering distance between Light of Life and Zone 1 station. I hear you on living it. I'll still take the north side over anything east of 16th street. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 10:52:15 AM EDT
[#9]
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The big problem with how city planning works today, in all countries, is that we make areas with low value residences OR high value residences. This means that we get high concentrations of poor people in the same place with little supporting infrastructure and social support etc. A better way of planning is to ensure that the area have both high and low value residences. This reduces segregation as many studies show; segregation is one of the corner pillars in organized crime and gang wars. Like someone posted earlier. Keep that crap in one place and don't go there. After Katrina some less desirables moved into my neighborhood. Went downhill from there. We moved. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:15:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Fights and shootings inside Monroeville Mall so they close it to the youts. So now the youts are at the Waterfront throwing rocks at cops and running wild. Same stuff different place.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just wait until the move them to other areas in the state.. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:31:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fights and shootings inside Monroeville Mall so they close it to the youts. So now the youts are at the Waterfront throwing rocks at cops and running wild. Same stuff different place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fights and shootings inside Monroeville Mall so they close it to the youts. So now the youts are at the Waterfront throwing rocks at cops and running wild. Same stuff different place. Quoted:
Just wait until the move them to other areas in the state.. I had not heard about the waterfront issues, but I had heard about the mall shooting. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:02:07 PM EDT
[#12]
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Where did the crime go? It went to Wilkinsburg, Penn Hills, etc... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:41:18 PM EDT
[#13]
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But you obey the law (I assume) If you had a sizable portion of the "elites" telling you it was OK to break the law because of your disability, would that change things for you? Hell, you have a job and no criminal record. Nothing defective about that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I meant "bad" as in defective, not necessarily evil. I'm saying that as a guy with a childhood brain injury who drives a forklift for a living. I'm one of the defective ones. But you obey the law (I assume) If you had a sizable portion of the "elites" telling you it was OK to break the law because of your disability, would that change things for you? Hell, you have a job and no criminal record. Nothing defective about that. Agreed. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:52:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? We don’t have a minimum wage set by the law but instead set by the particular branch and the unions. It can be as low as 16 000 SEK per month, as a reference a newly graduated IT student can expect 30 000 – 32 000 a month. Of course not everyone work full time or have a job at all. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:57:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Same thing happened when they relocated folks after Katrina.
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Posted: 3/30/2015 12:58:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like someone posted earlier. Keep that crap in one place and don't go there. After Katrina some less desirables moved into my neighborhood. Went downhill from there. We moved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The big problem with how city planning works today, in all countries, is that we make areas with low value residences OR high value residences. This means that we get high concentrations of poor people in the same place with little supporting infrastructure and social support etc. A better way of planning is to ensure that the area have both high and low value residences. This reduces segregation as many studies show; segregation is one of the corner pillars in organized crime and gang wars. Like someone posted earlier. Keep that crap in one place and don't go there. After Katrina some less desirables moved into my neighborhood. Went downhill from there. We moved. Yeah, the US has already created “bad” people and once a person I set on a certain path it’s hard to turn that around. I never said that we should forcibly move people or even that a sudden implementation of mixed income housing would fix you problems all at ones. This is something that should have built into your city planning from the beginning. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough about that. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:14:38 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same thing happened when they relocated folks after Katrina. Haha, I remember that. Came across some of the displaced Katrina victims while in Atlanta (job related). Apparently, they do not like exterior lighting as they disabled every last one in a motel's rear wing. Good times... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:16:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It went to Wilkinsburg, Penn Hills, etc... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Where did the crime go? It went to Wilkinsburg, Penn Hills, etc... Yup. Nothing like leaving early to go to work and finding two dead guys in their SUV because you decided to take a shortcut. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:17:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? They just haven't tasted the rainbow yet. Won't be long and that kumbaya attitude will change... |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:41:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What are you basing this on? My own experience supports his claim. What's your skepticism based on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The big problem with how city planning works today, in all countries, is that we make areas with low value residences OR high value residences. This means that we get high concentrations of poor people in the same place with little supporting infrastructure and social support etc. A better way of planning is to ensure that the area have both high and low value residences. This reduces segregation as many studies show; segregation is one of the corner pillars in organized crime and gang wars. I don't even know where to start... 
It doesn't work that way here. What are you basing this on? My own experience supports his claim. What's your skepticism based on? My skepticism is based on the fact that when you start low value residences near high value residences, the high value residences' value begins to plummet. Why would the property owners sit by and watch this happen? So they sell and get the hell away from the people who tend to live in low value residences. No one wants to live near a criminal element. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 1:52:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you basing this on? My own experience supports his claim. What's your skepticism based on? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The big problem with how city planning works today, in all countries, is that we make areas with low value residences OR high value residences. This means that we get high concentrations of poor people in the same place with little supporting infrastructure and social support etc. A better way of planning is to ensure that the area have both high and low value residences. This reduces segregation as many studies show; segregation is one of the corner pillars in organized crime and gang wars. I don't even know where to start... It doesn't work that way here. What are you basing this on? My own experience supports his claim. What's your skepticism based on? My guess: reality. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:24:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We don’t have a minimum wage set by the law but instead set by the particular branch and the unions. It can be as low as 16 000 SEK per month, as a reference a newly graduated IT student can expect 30 000 – 32 000 a month. Of course not everyone work full time or have a job at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. Just curious, but how different is the culture/values of low income vs middle and high income people in Sweden? Is it more or less homogeneous? We don’t have a minimum wage set by the law but instead set by the particular branch and the unions. It can be as low as 16 000 SEK per month, as a reference a newly graduated IT student can expect 30 000 – 32 000 a month. Of course not everyone work full time or have a job at all. I think you misunderstood what I was asking. I was not asking about how much money, I was wondering about if the different groups had them same societal norms etc.. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:32:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, pittsburgh, and post gazette are all racist Don't forget Numeritics, Victoria Hill, and Carnegie Mellon University. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:32:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:32:58 PM EDT
[#25]
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There were people in my precinct who paid $1 mil for brownstones that were 1 block from the projects. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why would anyone spend, say, $300,000 on a nice house that's located next door to a sec. 8 project? There were people in my precinct who paid $1 mil for brownstones that were 1 block from the projects. That is called running "them" (insert whomever the local them is) with stacks of $100 bills. Either the neighborhood becomes too expensive to live in or the policing gets exponentially greater because of the money involved. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:34:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any crime stats for the areas in TX where Katrina "victims" were moved or did they all go back to NO? The funniest thing during that whole relocation debacle was when they tried sending "victims" to WV and they refused.  Sometimes having a bad reputation is a great thing. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:36:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which was the whole idea. Re-normalizing the suburbs to be just as crime-ridden as the inner city, if not more so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. The cancer spread ... Which was the whole idea. Re-normalizing the suburbs to be just as crime-ridden as the inner city, if not more so. The problem is this aint the 70s and the sheep are armed and unwilling in more than a few case to be sheared. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:42:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My skepticism is based on the fact that when you start low value residences near high value residences, the high value residences' value begins to plummet. Why would the property owners sit by and watch this happen? So they sell and get the hell away from the people who tend to live in low value residences. No one wants to live near a criminal element. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What are you basing this on? My own experience supports his claim. What's your skepticism based on? My skepticism is based on the fact that when you start low value residences near high value residences, the high value residences' value begins to plummet. Why would the property owners sit by and watch this happen? So they sell and get the hell away from the people who tend to live in low value residences. No one wants to live near a criminal element. Nailed it. In some of the areas where the criminal element began bumping into the burb those housing prices fell. When the folks from the high crime area use the street as it transitions from Avenue to Road to dump off their ODing or wounded comrades people tend to get frustrated. Many left. Those houses did not sell for much more than what the owners paid for them ten, twenty, even thirty years before. Now the houses are bought up by those who WANT to escape the hood life while others are bought out by flippers and landlords who are happy to get a little section 8 money. Demographic change...and as those new folks move in some bring their old problems which can easily be transferred up and down road to avenue and vice versa. This sends more residents of the burb moving away...and the demographics and crime inch forward. In Pittsburgh's case most of it moved east and south following along main routes of travel. The burb loses its higher tax paying residents as those who remain are lower income or stuck because of relatives (me). A responsible minority middle class element is overshadowed by the minority element that tends to live in their old ways. Schools get failing grades discouraging responsible families from moving in. More people flee. The elderly remain who don't pay as much taxes and are more vulnerable to crime. The demographics change again shifting further and further out. Housing prices stagnate or deflate; foreclosures common.. Businesses buy up the houses and turn them into section 8 rental properties...rinse, repeat, etc. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:46:29 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:49:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which was the whole idea. Re-normalizing the suburbs to be just as crime-ridden as the inner city, if not more so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. The cancer spread ... Which was the whole idea. Re-normalizing the suburbs to be just as crime-ridden as the inner city, if not more so. It all works best when it is spread around........Hell the cities can't afford to pay for them anymore...........serves the suburbanites for fleeing. It's payback time. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:50:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what happened in good ole Chiraq. Daley torn down chunks of the projects and we call it "sharing the wealth" the sh*t moved its way down the nearest "free" expressways into the burbs- good luck to the surrounding burbs over there Yeah, when you remove crime from the city and send it to the suburbs, then crime in the city will go down. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 2:59:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. We have this in Sweden in many places and the system is completely market driven. From my experience it works really well. I live in a quite sizable house, 10 minutes by foot from the city center, from the early years of the 20th century and a decent garden but there are several apartment buildings in my block. We have very little crime, in fact the last time I heard a siren was last year. Also, you Americans seem to be very confused about the political spectrum. Just because you aren’t conservative you are not a communist. Communists are seen as just as strange here in Sweden as in the US, they are extreme. Even many people in the most leftist party in Sweden tend to look down at them. a socialist is nothing more than a communist who lacks the courage of his convictions. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:08:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m not talking about subsidized projects or forcing people to move into certain areas. I’m talking about city planning, i.e. the general rules a city puts up for how the city should be built. Putting all the low income housing in the same place or mix them up with the middle and high income houses/buildings. The same amount of buildings will be built anyway; it’s just a matter of where you build them. We have this in Sweden in many places and the system is completely market driven. From my experience it works really well. I live in a quite sizable house, 10 minutes by foot from the city center, from the early years of the 20th century and a decent garden but there are several apartment buildings in my block. We have very little crime, in fact the last time I heard a siren was last year. Also, you Americans seem to be very confused about the political spectrum. Just because you aren’t conservative you are not a communist. Communists are seen as just as strange here in Sweden as in the US, they are extreme. Even many people in the most leftist party in Sweden tend to look down at them. The Homogenous nature of your society contributes greatly to this working, probably to a greater degree than you realize. You really can't compare apples to oranges. There are large segments of our society that have been raised in an environment so distinct from anything you or I can ever understand. |
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Posted: 3/30/2015 5:31:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same thing happened in Baltimore. They demolished the high-rise projects and gave the residents bus tickets to the suburbs. 
Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's what happened in good ole Chiraq. Daley torn down chunks of the projects and we call it "sharing the wealth" the sh*t moved its way down the nearest "free" expressways into the burbs- good luck to the surrounding burbs over there Same thing happened in Baltimore. They demolished the high-rise projects and gave the residents bus tickets to the suburbs.
Kharn 
Of course, once it's out of your town... 
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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:16:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless they killed the former occupants they didn't reduce crime, they just moved it to another neighborhood. One of the former police chiefs here used to say, "You can't stop crime, only move it around." |
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Posted: 4/9/2015 5:32:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what happened in good ole Chiraq. Daley torn down chunks of the projects and we call it "sharing the wealth" the sh*t moved its way down the nearest "free" expressways into the burbs- good luck to the surrounding burbs over there This, the southern suburbs used to be very nice when I was a kid. Now the same neighborhood I grew up in is nearing "Wild Hundreds" levels of stupidity. |
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