User Panel
[#1]
Quoted:
Get back with me when its selling at pre-Obama prices. View Quote There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. |
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[#2]
Quoted:
There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Get back with me when its selling at pre-Obama prices. There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. |
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[#3]
Thr .22lr market is my barometer to know when to get back into shooting on a regular basis.
I know CSB or "well bye" but I cant bring myself to really shoot much of my stash without being able to replace it. |
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[#4]
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I view it as a dead caliber at this point. It's not really exciting to shoot either so I don't know why people are so upset. Go shoot airsoft guns hooked up with HPA tanks at 500fps and you're getting roughly the same experience. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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All I can say is, when it comes back down to $25 or less per 500 rd bulk pack, I am buying a stash that will make even a seasoned neckbeard weep openly, and when 500,000 people say and do the same thing, we won't see plentiful 22lr supplies for a decade. I view it as a dead caliber at this point. It's not really exciting to shoot either so I don't know why people are so upset. Go shoot airsoft guns hooked up with HPA tanks at 500fps and you're getting roughly the same experience. If you shot the competition I run you would have a blast and enjoy the challenge. We shoot 50 silhouettes in the woods. 12 to 100 yards all off hand. Scoped Rifle, scoped pistol, opens sight rifle, and open sight pistol. 50/50 is very rare with scope rifles. Very tough course. It is great off hand practice. You won't have that experience with an airsoft gun. |
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[#5]
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You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Get back with me when its selling at pre-Obama prices. There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. No. I am just adjusting to the new reality. I think after some of the demand subsides we might see more and more ammo on store shelves in that price range, but it will most likely be years. I have a competition to run and shoot in. |
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[#6]
This .22 nonsense if getting frustrating. We had the green tip crisis just a few weeks ago, and this very morning I bought 600rds of American eagle for about .35 per round. Yet the .22 thing has been going on for years.
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[#7]
Quoted:
This .22 nonsense if getting frustrating. We had the green tip crisis just a few weeks ago, and this very morning I bought 600rds of American eagle for about .35 per round. Yet the .22 thing has been going on for years. View Quote its a false shortage. if 100% of production was hitting the shelves there would be no shortage... this could happen with virtually any product. it will only end when folks are no longer willing to pay $.10+/ round. |
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[#8]
The problem is that you are looking for perhaps a good discussion about when and how market conditions might align again so that .22 rimfire ammo is comparable in price to where it was 3 or 4 years ago.
This is GD. That said, the price needs to adjust upward in terms of cpr. Wal-Mart is probably a good indicator of what happens when a HUGE supplier is still selling massive quantities at below market (i.e. 2011 era prices). Of course you're going to have that group of guys that have all the time in the world and enough money to buy $20 bulk pack and $7.99 CCI in the quantities that arrive. ETA: What's interesting is that the MSRP showing on the print-outs and boxes is still low. I was predicting 2 years ago that if CCI Stinger (~8.99 box) was wholesaling at say $2.99 to Wal-Mart that CCI would up it to $4.99 to reflect the boom market and the MSRP would become $10.99. Same with Federal bulk etc. That never really happened. It's a very very interesting economic case in supply and demand of a product. Just don't expect much in the way of good discussion here. Quoted:
I shoot about 3,000 to 5,000 rounds a year and I use up most of that in competition. This year I will use Wolf MT in my scope rifle, Blazer in my tech sighted 1970 10/22, and CCI standard in my Mk 2 and Mk 3 for the two pistol divisions. I have thousands of rounds of Federal Automatch for plinking ammo but my stocks of Blazer and Wolf MT are dropping quickly with the competition. 2500 rounds of Wolf MT is worth $500 these days. My point in this thread was not to bitch about the prices but the availability in regular stores and online sources. Finding one or two places where neckbeards are selling Blazer on gun broker is not proving availability. If Blazer is readily available it would be at some online vendors at the least. I searched dozens of places and found none. I was thrilled to pay $0.085 a round for CCI standard. I'm not trying to avoid market prices. That gun broker auction for a full case is more than I can afford right now. Still looking for online sources for Blazer. My buy price is $40 -$50 a brick or under if I can score it. View Quote |
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[#9]
I'm surprised a new ammo manufacturer hasn't come online that makes nothing but rimfire cartridges. That's how capitalism is supposed to work. The demand is high, the supply is low, so someone could get rich filling the niche.
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[#10]
Quoted:
I view it as a dead caliber at this point. It's not really exciting to shoot either so I don't know why people are so upset. Go shoot airsoft guns hooked up with HPA tanks at 500fps and you're getting roughly the same experience. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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All I can say is, when it comes back down to $25 or less per 500 rd bulk pack, I am buying a stash that will make even a seasoned neckbeard weep openly, and when 500,000 people say and do the same thing, we won't see plentiful 22lr supplies for a decade. I view it as a dead caliber at this point. It's not really exciting to shoot either so I don't know why people are so upset. Go shoot airsoft guns hooked up with HPA tanks at 500fps and you're getting roughly the same experience. Really? There are airsoft guns which can shoot under .5 MOA at 50 yards, like my precision .22s? Why haven't I heard of these precision airsoft guns before? |
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[#11]
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You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Get back with me when its selling at pre-Obama prices. There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. I bought brick after brick back in the day when it was dirt cheap. Me and my kids have hunted squirrels and target practiced with no problem because I stored about 30,000 rounds. In today's world if it came down to $35 a brick I will buy the shit out of it. Why? Because .22 is a great survival round to put food on the table and I will make sure my kids have a shitload!!! I'm sorry alot of you were asleep at the switch but that will not stop me from buying the shit out of it if prices become only half nuts! |
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[#12]
2 years and counting. I've shot about 2,000 rounds of .22 and still have around 10,000 stocked.
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[#13]
Quoted:
I'm surprised a new ammo manufacturer hasn't come online that makes nothing but rimfire cartridges. That's how capitalism is supposed to work. The demand is high, the supply is low, so someone could get rich filling the niche. View Quote Apparently there's no profit in it regardless of how much it sells for. This is a new branch of science that will redefine most of what we know about arithmetic. |
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[#14]
Even at the greatly inflated prices, demand exceeds supply. Welcome to the new market price of 22.
What will be interesting will be seeing how the industry responds to several years of this. Will 22LR firearms still be a staple in their lineup? |
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[#15]
I only feel sorry for new shooters, anyone who has been around awhile are just grasshoppers crying about ants.
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[#16]
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You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Get back with me when its selling at pre-Obama prices. There is no chance it will ever get that low again. I would happily pay $30 - $50 a brick for the quality ammo I am looking for. It might be a long time before we see these kind of prices commonly and local availability. You are a big part of the problem. neckbeards wouldn't exist if not for people like you. Yeah man, he should hold out for $10 a brick like you |
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[#17]
Quoted:
Even at the greatly inflated prices, demand exceeds supply. Welcome to the new market price of 22. What will be interesting will be seeing how the industry responds to several years of this. Will 22LR firearms still be a staple in their lineup? View Quote I can see .22lr guns going by the wayside if this keeps up. Not gone but little to no focus on them. Right before all this shit happened we bought our boys each a 10/22... they've barely been able to shoot them... Only recently have I been able to get decently priced 22 ammo for them to shoot. I will not pay $30+ for a brick of 22 plinking ammo. I am getting single boxes of 50 rounds for $3 (not $30 per 50rd box but if I could by a brick worth, It would only be $3 over what a brick used to cost) over what a brick used to be. The catch is that we can only buy one box per family per day... I'd rather do that then give the douche bags trying to keep the prices artificially inflated my money. Fuck them. Walmart should institute a similar restriction. Not 1 brick, but cut it down to 1 box of 50 rounds. Do that for a while and the neckbeards would be fucked... But supply would catch up to a degree. |
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[#18]
I have done like some and given up on the 22, I scored 4 boxes of ZQI at wally world today, I am happy, then I think, damn 10 bucks each time I feed a mag.
Oh well...... |
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[#19]
Quoted:
Please don't buy it because you're going to feed the secondary market. If everyone held off and just didn't buy shit from the neckbeards they'd be able to scoop it up on the shelves 6 months later. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I have gotten time outs for less. You need one. Please don't buy it because you're going to feed the secondary market. If everyone held off and just didn't buy shit from the neckbeards they'd be able to scoop it up on the shelves 6 months later. Said the guy who doesn't understand secondary markets. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
its a false shortage. if 100% of production was hitting the shelves there would be no shortage... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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This .22 nonsense if getting frustrating. We had the green tip crisis just a few weeks ago, and this very morning I bought 600rds of American eagle for about .35 per round. Yet the .22 thing has been going on for years. its a false shortage. if 100% of production was hitting the shelves there would be no shortage... |
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[#21]
Quoted:
I have done like some and given up on the 22, I scored 4 boxes of ZQI at wally world today, I am happy, then I think, damn 10 bucks each time I feed a mag. Oh well...... View Quote Some of you guys still don't seem to understand where .22 falls for some of us. There is no cheaper way to practice precision rifle than with .22LR. You cannot load any centerfire cartridge for the price of a decent .22 such as Wolf or SK match. Obviously it doesn't replace long range shooting where you need to compensate for wind, but it's still good practice and good fun, and it used to be cheap fun and cheap practice. We don't all just shoot to make noise and watch dirt fly around tin cans. |
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[#22]
I don't know how much .22 I have. I do not want to count it. I keep CCI sleeves stuck back. Loved shooting my 10/22 and MKII. What does 70 or 80 pounds of 22 come out to?
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[#23]
Quoted:
Some of you guys still don't seem to understand where .22 falls for some of us. There is no cheaper way to practice precision rifle than with .22LR. You cannot load any centerfire cartridge for the price of a decent .22 such as Wolf or SK match. Obviously it doesn't replace long range shooting where you need to compensate for wind, but it's still good practice and good fun, and it used to be cheap fun and cheap practice. We don't all just shoot to make noise and watch dirt fly around tin cans. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I have done like some and given up on the 22, I scored 4 boxes of ZQI at wally world today, I am happy, then I think, damn 10 bucks each time I feed a mag. Oh well...... Some of you guys still don't seem to understand where .22 falls for some of us. There is no cheaper way to practice precision rifle than with .22LR. You cannot load any centerfire cartridge for the price of a decent .22 such as Wolf or SK match. Obviously it doesn't replace long range shooting where you need to compensate for wind, but it's still good practice and good fun, and it used to be cheap fun and cheap practice. We don't all just shoot to make noise and watch dirt fly around tin cans. I practice off hand shooting for my competition. I have plenty of plinking ammo so I don't buy the shitty stuff that seems to be most of what is available . I'm just trying to buy ammo to shoot this year and maybe next. |
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[#24]
When the market do stabilize there will be a huge wave of bunkered ammo reappearing in the market as people realize they don’t need 10 000+ rounds of .22LR. That will probably have a few companies completely stop producing .22LR which might create a second shortage.
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[#25]
The odd thing about the "Shortage" is that only one company is producing "plinking" rounds and that is Remington and those are the Golden Bullets and those are crap.
Everyone else is producing their higher quality stuff. Winchester is pumping out their SuperX, Federal AutoMatch, CCI Standard Velocity but almost no bulk pack fodder stuff. I have been buying Rem subsonics and CCI Standard Velocity regularly and the prices are less than or equal to pre Sandy Hook pricing. |
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[#26]
Quoted:
When the market do stabilize there will be a huge wave of bunkered ammo reappearing in the market as people realize they don’t need 10 000+ rounds of .22LR. That will probably have a few companies completely stop producing .22LR which might create a second shortage. View Quote And when this does happen, and the manufactures have built new factories to produce it, what would then happen to those factories and employees? |
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[#27]
Quoted:
When the market do stabilize there will be a huge wave of bunkered ammo reappearing in the market as people realize they don’t need 10 000+ rounds of .22LR. That will probably have a few companies completely stop producing .22LR which might create a second shortage. View Quote When the prices stay dropping people like me will buy it all up quickly. I will never get caught like this again. |
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[#28]
Quoted:
And when this does happen, and the manufactures have built new factories to produce it, what would then happen to those factories and employees? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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When the market do stabilize there will be a huge wave of bunkered ammo reappearing in the market as people realize they don’t need 10 000+ rounds of .22LR. That will probably have a few companies completely stop producing .22LR which might create a second shortage. And when this does happen, and the manufactures have built new factories to produce it, what would then happen to those factories and employees? There are far too many new shooters and far too much demand for that to happen. |
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[#29]
Quoted: What difference does it make if you are paying MSRP of 60.00 from a neckbeard or a retailer? How does increasing MSRP suddenly eliminate a person paying MSRP and reselling even higher? TRG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: From what I have been told, the profit margin does not make it worth enlarging the production facilities. So we just have to suck it up. I can buy it for 10cpr all day long. If they up their production capacity, we would see a jump in the base price I am sure. I keep my eyes open at WM and such and keep enough to replace what I shoot. I have enough stocked up to last for a while. That's the biggest failure of this whole thing. If they had doubled their prices, we would have more production and no shortage. What difference does it make if you are paying MSRP of 60.00 from a neckbeard or a retailer? How does increasing MSRP suddenly eliminate a person paying MSRP and reselling even higher? TRG |
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[#30]
I've pretty much given up on .22 LR for blasting, esp if $45 bricks are the new norm. I'm thinking of picking up a .38 Special revolver and carbine for the kids to plink with, at least it's reloadable.
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[#31]
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[#32]
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[#33]
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes That ain't coming back..... |
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[#34]
They cannot make it fast enough, been that way for a long time, now it has caught up. These type articles have been out for awhile. Depends on where you are in the country too, I have been able to find it in northern Delaware and SW PA all along.
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[#35]
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That ain't coming back..... I know. I bought a lot of it at that price about 10 years ago. If folks stopped hoarding every round they saw, it would probably fall back to $20-$25 per brick. |
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[#36]
.22 lr is going the way of .32 rimfire......you are witnessing a cartridge become obsolete.
Sad too, .22 has trained many a new shooter....has inspired future generations of firearms owners and hunters. But what will happen is that people will get tired of seeing a dust covered rifle or pistol in the closet, and sell them to buy a firearm they CAN get ammo for. Ruger 10/22's , Marlin 39's, Henry Goldenboy's........will go the way of the 30-40 Krag. .22 ammo will still be around, but never in the quantities it was when you grew up. The 0.5% of .22lr owners remaining will still be paying $75+ / brick ....and that's only because they want to keep a small stash of ammo to occasionally go out and shoot Grandad's rifle; the one they're keeping around for nostalgia or as an heirloom. Manufacturers will scrap their .22 production to expand into other calibers. CEO's will lament about how mismanagement and bad forecasting caused the loss of such a noble round....and vow to "listen to the people" from now on.. All .22 ammo will be made by a subsidiary of Cerberus in Guatemala that will boast of its 79% ignition rate. This is your free peek into the future. |
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[#37]
Quoted:
.22 lr is going the way of .32 rimfire......you are witnessing a cartridge become obsolete. Sad too, .22 has trained many a new shooter....has inspired future generations of firearms owners and hunters. But what will happen is that people will get tired of seeing a dust covered rifle or pistol in the closet, and sell them to buy a firearm they CAN get ammo for. Ruger 10/22's , Marlin 39's, Henry Goldenboy's........will go the way of the 30-40 Krag. .22 ammo will still be around, but never in the quantities it was when you grew up. The 0.5% of .22lr owners remaining will still be paying $75+ / brick ....and that's only because they want to keep a small stash of ammo to occasionally go out and shoot Grandad's rifle; the one they're keeping around for nostalgia or as an heirloom. Manufacturers will scrap their .22 production to expand into other calibers. CEO's will lament about how mismanagement and bad forecasting caused the loss of such a noble round....and vow to "listen to the people" from now on.. All .22 ammo will be made by a subsidiary of Cerberus in Guatemala that will boast of its 79% ignition rate. This is your free peek into the future. View Quote Hmmm... Interesting theory there GoVol98. So just like the banning of "Hi-Cap" Wonder9's in the early 90's fostered a massive rebirth and resurgence of interest in the 45ACP 1911's the persistent shortage of 22lr could foster a resurgence of pistol caliber carbines. I would miss my 22lr's but I certainly be interested in a modernized version of a Ruger PC9 that took Glock mags.! |
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[#38]
Quoted:
.22 lr is going the way of .32 rimfire......you are witnessing a cartridge become obsolete. Sad too, .22 has trained many a new shooter....has inspired future generations of firearms owners and hunters. But what will happen is that people will get tired of seeing a dust covered rifle or pistol in the closet, and sell them to buy a firearm they CAN get ammo for. Ruger 10/22's , Marlin 39's, Henry Goldenboy's........will go the way of the 30-40 Krag. .22 ammo will still be around, but never in the quantities it was when you grew up. The 0.5% of .22lr owners remaining will still be paying $75+ / brick ....and that's only because they want to keep a small stash of ammo to occasionally go out and shoot Grandad's rifle; the one they're keeping around for nostalgia or as an heirloom. Manufacturers will scrap their .22 production to expand into other calibers. CEO's will lament about how mismanagement and bad forecasting caused the loss of such a noble round....and vow to "listen to the people" from now on.. All .22 ammo will be made by a subsidiary of Cerberus in Guatemala that will boast of its 79% ignition rate. This is your free peek into the future. View Quote Not true at all. There is profit in making it. Just not as much as some of the other calibers. The other calibers are very easy to find anywhere so they will produce what the market wants. .22 lr has another 100 years to go at least. |
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[#39]
I'm just wondering when the guys who didn't stock up and can't find ammo are going to start selling their rifles and handguns for cheap. Everyone still seems to want near new pricing on their guns, but once I start finding deals I'm going to hop all over it
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[#40]
Quoted: .22 lr is going the way of .32 rimfire......you are witnessing a cartridge become obsolete. Sad too, .22 has trained many a new shooter....has inspired future generations of firearms owners and hunters. But what will happen is that people will get tired of seeing a dust covered rifle or pistol in the closet, and sell them to buy a firearm they CAN get ammo for. Ruger 10/22's , Marlin 39's, Henry Goldenboy's........will go the way of the 30-40 Krag. .22 ammo will still be around, but never in the quantities it was when you grew up. The 0.5% of .22lr owners remaining will still be paying $75+ / brick ....and that's only because they want to keep a small stash of ammo to occasionally go out and shoot Grandad's rifle; the one they're keeping around for nostalgia or as an heirloom. Manufacturers will scrap their .22 production to expand into other calibers. CEO's will lament about how mismanagement and bad forecasting caused the loss of such a noble round....and vow to "listen to the people" from now on.. All .22 ammo will be made by a subsidiary of Cerberus in Guatemala that will boast of its 79% ignition rate. This is your free peek into the future. View Quote If there is ever a round that will never go anywhere, it is the .22lr. There are just too many guns out there that use it. It'll come back. People will run out of space and get tired of filling up on it eventually. |
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[#41]
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[#42]
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[#43]
talked to my Dad today. Friday he went to our Walmart. Picked up a box of Winchester 333. This was at 10:30 am and our Walmart still puts ammo out at 7 am. They still had 4 left out of the 10 that came in. This is the same Walmart that I went to Wednesday morning at 7 and was only person at ammo counter. They got a case of the 333 that day too. Limit 1 box of 22 lr over 100 rd box. So it appears the neckbearding is over in our area and its just shooter/stock up buying now. So maybe it will catch up in other areas soon.
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[#44]
Quoted:
talked to my Dad today. Friday he went to our Walmart. Picked up a box of Winchester 333. This was at 10:30 am and our Walmart still puts ammo out at 7 am. They still had 4 left out of the 10 that came in. This is the same Walmart that I went to Wednesday morning at 7 and was only person at ammo counter. They got a case of the 333 that day too. Limit 1 box of 22 lr over 100 rd box. So it appears the neckbearding is over in our area and its just shooter/stock up buying now. So maybe it will catch up in other areas soon. View Quote If you want to track when this will be over... simply head over to gunbroker and places like http://texasguntrader.com/index.php?a=5&b=906 Just watch the prices as they fall. Federal 550 packs are already only $40 on the secondary market. (7 cents a round) 333 packs are $26 (8 cents) CCI minimags are $15 per 100. (15 cents) That's getting really close to "not freaking worth the trouble" |
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[#45]
Quoted:
I'm just wondering when the guys who didn't stock up and can't find ammo are going to start selling their rifles and handguns for cheap. Everyone still seems to want near new pricing on their guns, but once I start finding deals I'm going to hop all over it View Quote I know. Last year I bought a Marlin Model 60 from a guy I know. New and still in original box. Said he put about a hundred rounds through it. I believe him. I gave him a hundred dollar bill. I'm happy. |
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[#46]
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[#47]
Quoted:
Sounds a lot like descriptions I see in the EE. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Last year I bought a Marlin Model 60 from a guy I know. New and still in original box. Said he put about a hundred rounds through it. I believe him. I gave him a hundred dollar bill. I'm happy. Sounds a lot like descriptions I see in the EE. Sounds more like an Ex of mine. TRG |
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[#48]
Quoted:
I have over 10k rds, just 'cause. I never use .22 any more though. It's not exciting and keeping up with the AR and CCW keeps me busy and poor. Even though I have an awesome MKII and a Colt Woodsman, .22 doesn't hold a candle to the M1A, now does it. FBHO. View Quote There's your answer. |
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[#49]
You guys are doing it all wrong.
I'm shooting federal 22lr from 2005 and 200b. Most of my stock was bought in 08 when the first shortage appeared.. I/m also shooting 762r that I bought for $89 per 1k.. And then there's the 762N.... See a trend?? |
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[#50]
Quoted:
.22 lr is going the way of .32 rimfire......you are witnessing a cartridge become obsolete. Sad too, .22 has trained many a new shooter....has inspired future generations of firearms owners and hunters. But what will happen is that people will get tired of seeing a dust covered rifle or pistol in the closet, and sell them to buy a firearm they CAN get ammo for. Ruger 10/22's , Marlin 39's, Henry Goldenboy's........will go the way of the 30-40 Krag. .22 ammo will still be around, but never in the quantities it was when you grew up. The 0.5% of .22lr owners remaining will still be paying $75+ / brick ....and that's only because they want to keep a small stash of ammo to occasionally go out and shoot Grandad's rifle; the one they're keeping around for nostalgia or as an heirloom. Manufacturers will scrap their .22 production to expand into other calibers. CEO's will lament about how mismanagement and bad forecasting caused the loss of such a noble round....and vow to "listen to the people" from now on.. All .22 ammo will be made by a subsidiary of Cerberus in Guatemala that will boast of its 79% ignition rate. This is your free peek into the future. View Quote No, .32 rimfire became obsolete because high velocity 22LR ammo in smokeless powder became available and outperformed .32 rimfire. Also, there were new centerfire cartidges that became available that were superior to .32 rimfire. 22LR will become obsolete when a viable and better replacement for it is manufactured. Right now demand is sky high for the stuff. Manufacturers won't stop producing it just because you can't find it on the shelves at Walmart. They are at 100% capacity and selling at higher profit margins than ever before. In other words, they are making money hand over fist on 22LR and will continue to make it as long as there are profits to be had. People aren't throwing away their 22's just because ammo is scarce. There are a few that have given up, but most people that like the round are able to find what they need even if they have to pay a higher price than they did 3 years ago. |
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