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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:34:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go look on Gunbroker, there's 38 pages of ads for .22LR. That tells you something. Huge amounts of .22LR are being bought up for sale on the secondary market. Your whole argument can be reduced to Neckbeard or the act of Neckbearding. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:38:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since 2004-2008 Base price of production has increased. Metal prices have increased. Fuel prices have increased. A simple 6% increase in costs per year (inflation, dollar weaker, fuel costs, transportation costs, metal costs, healthcare, etc...) $10.99 in 2004 would be annualized to $20.86 in 2015. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bottom has to fall out eventually. Since 2004-2008 Base price of production has increased. Metal prices have increased. Fuel prices have increased. A simple 6% increase in costs per year (inflation, dollar weaker, fuel costs, transportation costs, metal costs, healthcare, etc...) $10.99 in 2004 would be annualized to $20.86 in 2015. TRG True. But read this thread and see that some people can find 22. They just aren't willing to pay the new market price. The stores that don't have it, most likely are refusing to pay a higher price to get it in the store. But it's hard to sell a 22 rifle or pistol when you can't supply the ammo. This ammo isn't going back to $8 dollars a brick again. Not at the rate people are buying it. I know two people who work at a local big box store. The 22 ammo never makes it to the shelves. They will text a heads up to friends when 22 comes in. Some of their co-workers are texting the guys who flip it online. I saw a guy buy his limit then pay two women $10 each to come in and buy more bricks for him. This guy was known to the staff. He was pissed that the girl working the cash register "Wouldn't play ball" when she refused to sell him an entire basket of CCI. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:40:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's your problem: Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's your problem: Quoted: When it comes back I'm buying it all and stacking it deep |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:40:51 AM EDT
[#4]
I got an email notification from one of my online vendors that had Federal American Eagle 500rds for $39.00 with free shipping.
Limit 2 per customer and they had 99+ in stock @ 9:40. By 10:05 they were all sold out. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 10:45:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol Not only is that not true, it wouldn't be smart even if it was. .22 already has the lowest profit margin. They are selling their entire inventory constantly and running their equipment 24/7. All that equipment won't continue to pay off in the long run. Once this .22 panic blows over, now they have way more capacity than they need and all sorts of equipment that won't get used. It doesn't make smart business sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. In the last two years the demand would have paid off new equipment, new buildings, new Beemers for each worker, and daily knob polishing for the executives. WTF are they waiting for? This correction will take years. Not only is that not true, it wouldn't be smart even if it was. .22 already has the lowest profit margin. They are selling their entire inventory constantly and running their equipment 24/7. All that equipment won't continue to pay off in the long run. Once this .22 panic blows over, now they have way more capacity than they need and all sorts of equipment that won't get used. It doesn't make smart business sense. Shortages are bad for the industry but surpluses are worse. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:05:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: here is a thought. just tossing it out there to ponder. there was no centerfire on the shelves for 6 months. but there was very little .22LR to be found. then hunting season comes along and there are cases and cases of centerfire ready for hunting season. I am betting there might me a sudden burst of .22LR in the next month or so. if this happens. I have to wonder about supply channels for powder/brass and lead. remember when the last Lead Smelt was shutdown last year? They don't make Christmas wrapping paper in February, either. As for the lead smelting thing... ammo manufacturers haven't used fresh lead made from iron ore to make bullets since well, ever. Bullets are made out of recycled and scrap lead. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:09:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bottom has to fall out eventually. Yep, its already started to happen with centerfire, minus the M855 scare. Give it time, it will happen to 22LR as well. The problem is all the newbies that Newtown brought in all bought 22 caliber guns, so its taking longer for the market to catch up. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:09:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Double tap
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:13:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got an email notification from one of my online vendors that had Federal American Eagle 500rds for $39.00 with free shipping. Limit 2 per customer and they had 99+ in stock @ 9:40. By 10:05 they were all sold out. That's 8 cents per round, with shipping. No wonder it sold out. Even CCI at Wal-Mart is going to be 10 cents per round, plus tax, plus your time. TRG |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:16:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:16:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every place around here still has guys at the door every morning an hour before they open that immediately head to the gun counter and ask for .22 when the doors open. They are doing the same thing here. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:21:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. But read this thread and see that some people can find 22. They just aren't willing to pay the new market price. The stores that don't have it, most likely are refusing to pay a higher price to get it in the store. But it's hard to sell a 22 rifle or pistol when you can't supply the ammo. This ammo isn't going back to $8 dollars a brick again. Not at the rate people are buying it. I know two people who work at a local big box store. The 22 ammo never makes it to the shelves. They will text a heads up to friends when 22 comes in. Some of their co-workers are texting the guys who flip it online. I saw a guy buy his limit then pay two women $10 each to come in and buy more bricks for him. This guy was known to the staff. He was pissed that the girl working the cash register "Wouldn't play ball" when she refused to sell him an entire basket of CCI. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bottom has to fall out eventually. Since 2004-2008 Base price of production has increased. Metal prices have increased. Fuel prices have increased. A simple 6% increase in costs per year (inflation, dollar weaker, fuel costs, transportation costs, metal costs, healthcare, etc...) $10.99 in 2004 would be annualized to $20.86 in 2015. TRG True. But read this thread and see that some people can find 22. They just aren't willing to pay the new market price. The stores that don't have it, most likely are refusing to pay a higher price to get it in the store. But it's hard to sell a 22 rifle or pistol when you can't supply the ammo. This ammo isn't going back to $8 dollars a brick again. Not at the rate people are buying it. I know two people who work at a local big box store. The 22 ammo never makes it to the shelves. They will text a heads up to friends when 22 comes in. Some of their co-workers are texting the guys who flip it online. I saw a guy buy his limit then pay two women $10 each to come in and buy more bricks for him. This guy was known to the staff. He was pissed that the girl working the cash register "Wouldn't play ball" when she refused to sell him an entire basket of CCI. It won't go back to 8 bucks just based upon inflation of the cost of production over the last decade. If people are buying everything off the shelf and they have invented a gray market economy, more power to them. It's a free country. I don't pay 60 bucks for a pack of 325 golden bullets at gunshows. I've managed, in the last month, to buy almost 5k rounds of 22LR by just routine trades and EE items. It wasn't the price per round I paid as a kid 30 years ago when a 50 round box was 50 cents though. TRG |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:25:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century  I hear ya. I used to buy a box every week on our grocery-shopping trip. Had a known where we would end-up, I would have bought TWO every week. I haven't seen jack for .22LR here in MT for the past two years either. I rarely even ask any more.
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG Dang! Sounds like a middle-eastern wedding or something. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:37:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Its a little better around here but it still requires some leg work one way or the other.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:39:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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2 solid years since I saw CCI Blazer in stock anywhere. I can find CCI Standard for $0.10 a round. Federal of any kind is still very rare. All I see is CI and Rem. Golden bullets. I need Blazer and Standard Vel. for a competition I participate in. I'm pretty sure we won't have a competition this year with 22 being so hard to find. Especially quality ammo. What gives with CCI and Federal? How is it this bad two full years later with demand as high as ever? What is interfering with supply meeting demand? I'm most likely going to spend $50 a brick for standard velocity tomorrow because I need it to compete. Am I crazy? CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Believe it or not, but CCI SV is very popular with competition match shooters (I never see anyone shooting CCI Green Tag, if they still make). "Ammo Used" is recorded on our Mini Palma Match scoresheets. It's a 3-way split between Wolf Match Target, SK Jagd Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Velocity. By the way, the former two are the exact same ammo sold under different brand labeling. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:40:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Same here but I don't see it happening. Not unless supply increases a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All I can say is, when it comes back down to $25 or less per 500 rd bulk pack, I am buying a stash that will make even a seasoned neckbeard weep openly, Same here but I don't see it happening. Not unless supply increases a lot. I will too. So will everyone else. That's why there's none on the shelves. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:43:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dang! Sounds like a middle-eastern wedding or something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century I hear ya. I used to buy a box every week on our grocery-shopping trip. Had a known where we would end-up, I would have bought TWO every week. I haven't seen jack for .22LR here in MT for the past two years either. I rarely even ask any more.
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG Dang! Sounds like a middle-eastern wedding or something. I will admit to being a little nervous until the first rounds fell AWAY from my location. TRG |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:43:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got an email notification from one of my online vendors that had Federal American Eagle 500rds for $39.00 with free shipping. Limit 2 per customer and they had 99+ in stock @ 9:40. By 10:05 they were all sold out. I got that notification, too. Bought two bricks, and it still said "99+ in stock". |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:44:20 AM EDT
[#19]
I managed to put an extra 5k on my shelves to gather dust. Always good to have over 10k .22 on hand... Kids need something to shoot.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:45:23 AM EDT
[#20]
I'll give you very good price my friend.
I bought a shit ton of .22lr thinking I was going to buy a M&P 22, but that didn't happen 
My Marlin Model 60 has a LOT of work to do. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:52:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.22 is efectively dead. I argued with someone here a year ago that it wasn't but he was right and i was wrong. I've gone back to bullet casting. even buying scrap lead locally at a buck a pound. I can make a 9mm bullet for less than 3 cents. another 3 cents for the primer and 2 cents for powder puts me at 8 cents for 9mm and thats buying lead. I'm working my way through 130 lbs of lead i've had for 10 years. I wouldn't go so far as to say dead, but it ain't the same. I bought a Ciener conversion for my 1911 years ago and used .22 to run drills and practice for USPSA. Now that .22 runs 10 cents a round it makes no sense, since I can reload .45's for 12 cents a round. Now, I still put it on there for my 8 year old to shoot since he's not ready for full power .45s, but that's about it. I still use a .22 conversion in my AR though since I reload .223 at 20 cents a round. And I still hunt small game with my 10/22. Obviously you need .22 for that. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:53:32 AM EDT
[#22]
I've given up on .22lr until the day I can go online and reorder what I'm shooting up.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:56:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But think of all the ammo forts that are being made with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There's the vast majority of two years production in closets and on shelves. Most of it will never be shot. But think of all the ammo forts that are being made with it. Those bricks will be available at discount prices during estate sales in 5-10 years. The neckbeards I have seen in the wild have all been people close to or well into their retirement years. The last guy I saw had his wife drop him off out in front of the store so he could get a heard start in while she was parking. A Korean War veteran... |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 11:58:22 AM EDT
[#24]
I used to shoot 1 or 2 bricks a week. I have not shot more than 5 or 6 bricks in the last several years, I can load and shoot 9mm for about the same price or lower than I can find 22 ammo.
It pisses me off cause I have three 22 cans. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:00:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got that notification, too. Bought two bricks, and it still said "99+ in stock". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I got an email notification from one of my online vendors that had Federal American Eagle 500rds for $39.00 with free shipping. Limit 2 per customer and they had 99+ in stock @ 9:40. By 10:05 they were all sold out. I got that notification, too. Bought two bricks, and it still said "99+ in stock". 99+ could have meant they had 100 or 1,000 in stock. Just for shits and giggles, I refreshed the page every few minutes just to watch the numbers dwindle. It dropped 6-8 boxes easy in between the time I got up from the computer, found my wallet and dug out my CC. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:02:13 PM EDT
[#26]
OP, I am reminded of some Snoop Dogg lyrics .........
"This kinda shit happens all the time...." "You gotta get yours before I gets mine...." There are people hoarding and buying every .22 LR in sight. Common knowledge. AND there are people just waiting to hoard every round they come across when the price eventually drops a little. So there are hoarders and "hoarders-in-waiting." I don't see any improvement coming for AT LEAST several years - and by then incoming president Hillary will probably have it banned anyway. I bought my .22 LR CCI mimimags before this all started by just buying 3-5 plastic 100-round boxes whenever I happened to be in Walmart. Little did I know what was coming regarding the .22 LR panic. I would never have dreamed of the present situation. BUT, could anybody have foreseen this? Many on this board keep some ammo stored and some have vast ammo forts but even they surely could not have foreseen this insane panic. I would have guessed that the 5.56 would get scarce or the 7.62 and 5.45 would have been totally cut off form import but I would never have guessed that CCI minimags would become as "scarce as hen's teeth." |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:05:59 PM EDT
[#27]
I have plenty cheap 7n6 stashed away for plinking. Neckbeards can have their .22.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:09:15 PM EDT
[#28]
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I don't buy it. Nothing runs at full capacity 24/7 and not saturate the market, no matter who's buying it. Look at fuel recently, everyone was buying and they still out produced demand and the price dropped. I'm saying production hasn't out paced demand........somebody is buying it and I'm not so sure it is actually average citizens, or they are not running production 24/7 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. I don't buy it. Nothing runs at full capacity 24/7 and not saturate the market, no matter who's buying it. Look at fuel recently, everyone was buying and they still out produced demand and the price dropped. I'm saying production hasn't out paced demand........somebody is buying it and I'm not so sure it is actually average citizens, or they are not running production 24/7 It's ok to be wrong. Most arfcommers don't understand supply and demand. 
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:30:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since 2004-2008 Base price of production has increased. Metal prices have increased. Fuel prices have increased. A simple 6% increase in costs per year (inflation, dollar weaker, fuel costs, transportation costs, metal costs, healthcare, etc...) $10.99 in 2004 would be annualized to $20.86 in 2015. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The bottom has to fall out eventually. Since 2004-2008 Base price of production has increased. Metal prices have increased. Fuel prices have increased. A simple 6% increase in costs per year (inflation, dollar weaker, fuel costs, transportation costs, metal costs, healthcare, etc...) $10.99 in 2004 would be annualized to $20.86 in 2015. TRG Stop trying to bring facts and logic into the situation. Well all know the truth. FEMA, the DOJ, and the neckbearding society are all working together to ensure that average decent hardworking American cannot find any .22 ammo. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:38:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century I hear ya. I used to buy a box every week on our grocery-shopping trip. Had a known where we would end-up, I would have bought TWO every week. I haven't seen jack for .22LR here in MT for the past two years either. I rarely even ask any more.
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG How long did it take them to fall back down? |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century I just finished off the last one of those I had. Red and blue box, tagged $9.00. Ah the good ole days. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 12:49:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Glad I stocked up on cci sv when it was $25 a brick. I had people demand I sell them 22lr for what I payed for it. Piss off to them
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Posted: 3/26/2015 1:11:38 PM EDT
[#33]
It is comical how we turned the anemic 22LR which no politician planned on touching into unobtainium by our own doing.
I remember folks on here bragging about how many bricks of 22 they bough during the panic. "Ergh ma gad, just bough out wally worlds 10k 22LR ammo supply, I'll be king when TSHTF  " or "Better buy up 22, people will treat it like cash when TEOTWAWKI happens"
All for a round that is pretty much useless outside of squirrel hunting and plinking. During the same time, most folks weren't really buying all that much more 5.45, 556, or 7.62, the ammo the politicians actually did go after. Sure there was a surge, but you could find it for the right price. People are fucking retarded. The end. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 1:56:16 PM EDT
[#34]
The last time I bought .22LR was in 2003-2004 when our local "The Andersons" was getting out of guns and ammo. All they had for bulk was Remington Thunderbolts. $0.99 per 50 or $9.89 for a brick of 500. I asked for two bricks, when the sales associate handed them to me he said, "we're getting rid of all our guns and ammo and reducing the fishing dept by 50% as well."
I asked for ALL the Remington bricks, as well as the rest of their .22LR inventory. I walked out of the store with a shopping cart 3/4 full with .22LR ammo. The total haul was around 27,000 rounds of various .22LR (Mostly Remington Thunderbolts, some Yellow Jackets, Stingers, MiniMags, and CCI SV). I didn't buy anything but LR, left all the shorts and magnums behind. I've down to 3.5 bricks of Thunderbolt from that haul and have not seen .22LR on the retail shelves for a long time (not that I was looking for any until after the recent panic). Currently I can load lead .45acp for the same 10cpr as .22LR, so I'll save my .22LR for the S.O. and any new shooters I need to introduce to the shooting scene. P.S. Apparently the Thunderbolt .22LR made back then aren't near as bad as the new production Thunderbolts. 
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Posted: 3/26/2015 1:58:33 PM EDT
[#35]
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Believe it or not, but CCI SV is very popular with competition match shooters (I never see anyone shooting CCI Green Tag, if they still make). "Ammo Used" is recorded on our Mini Palma Match scoresheets. It's a 3-way split between Wolf Match Target, SK Jagd Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Velocity. By the way, the former two are the exact same ammo sold under different brand labeling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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2 solid years since I saw CCI Blazer in stock anywhere. I can find CCI Standard for $0.10 a round. Federal of any kind is still very rare. All I see is CI and Rem. Golden bullets. I need Blazer and Standard Vel. for a competition I participate in. I'm pretty sure we won't have a competition this year with 22 being so hard to find. Especially quality ammo. What gives with CCI and Federal? How is it this bad two full years later with demand as high as ever? What is interfering with supply meeting demand? I'm most likely going to spend $50 a brick for standard velocity tomorrow because I need it to compete. Am I crazy? CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Believe it or not, but CCI SV is very popular with competition match shooters (I never see anyone shooting CCI Green Tag, if they still make). "Ammo Used" is recorded on our Mini Palma Match scoresheets. It's a 3-way split between Wolf Match Target, SK Jagd Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Velocity. By the way, the former two are the exact same ammo sold under different brand labeling. Those are definitely the most popular for some matches (and for me), but the really serious guys use higher end stuff than that. But even they will use CCI SV or Wolf Match for practice. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:01:32 PM EDT
[#36]
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I'm telling you - go to the gun shop - buy a cheap-ass 38 special revolver like a taurus or something. Go to wal-mart and buy up jugs of pyrodex instead of 22LR. Jump online to buy some cast lead bullets and a Lee Classic Loader (AKA Lee Whack-A-Loader). Get some primers. Produce the most dirt-cheap, dirty-shooting, hardcast lead 38 rounds for $0.015 for powder $0.060 for cast lead bullet (purchased - you could cast your own for cheaper) $0.019 for primer Now you're shooting 38 special low velocity plinking rounds for $0.095. Cheaper than the going rate of .22LR. Since I cast my own lead bullets, I can shoot the same 38's for $0.055 per round. If I wanted to shoot a pistol, I would just shoot my one of my 9mm pistols, which have cheap ammo available everywhere now. That doesn't replace the ammo for my precision .22 rifles.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:09:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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It is comical how we turned the anemic 22LR which no politician planned on touching into unobtainium by our own doing. I remember folks on here bragging about how many bricks of 22 they bough during the panic. "Ergh ma gad, just bough out wally worlds 10k 22LR ammo supply, I'll be king when TSHTF " or "Better buy up 22, people will treat it like cash when TEOTWAWKI happens"
All for a round that is pretty much useless outside of squirrel hunting and plinking. During the same time, most folks weren't really buying all that much more 5.45, 556, or 7.62, the ammo the politicians actually did go after. Sure there was a surge, but you could find it for the right price. People are fucking retarded. The end. Yes, a lot of this was caused by neckbeards and hoarders. But supply of .22 was fairly tight even before the election panic of 2008 and 2012. Then when you add the growing popularity of AR .22s, there would still be a shortage, even without any panic, if nothing was done to add capacity. Everyone needs to stop buying new .22 rifles and pistols. Maybe then companies like S&W and Ruger will start talking to companies like CCI about how they can't sell guns because there is no ammo, and work out a deal. I've been saying this for over 6 years now, but the shortages are not going away until the manufacturers add capacity, regardless of what the neckbeards do. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:12:51 PM EDT
[#38]
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It's a 3-way split between Wolf Match Target, SK Jagd Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Velocity. By the way, the former two are the exact same ammo sold under different brand labeling. I have to disagree with that based on all the rounds I've shot of each brand. I can't get Wolf to shoot well in two of my CZs, no matter what lot number I try. However, every lot of SK Standard Plus I get shoots in both rifles very well. Something isn't the same there. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:17:09 PM EDT
[#39]
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How long did it take them to fall back down? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I miss the Walmart Federal 550 round bulk packs for $8.87. Believe it or not that was actually in this century I hear ya. I used to buy a box every week on our grocery-shopping trip. Had a known where we would end-up, I would have bought TWO every week. I haven't seen jack for .22LR here in MT for the past two years either. I rarely even ask any more.
I used to do the same. I maintained a fairly good supply around the house. I still have plenty in the basket where I empty my pockets, little jars of odds and ends of shotgun shells, 556, 22LR. there is still at least a bulk pack in my truck's glovebox, some out on shelf in the garage. I am sure there is 22LR stuck in a coat pocket or two. It was, once, just throw away ammo. I didn't care how much I had, loose, and scattered around the place. Dear lord, the massive amounts I fired through my Ciener kit on my M16. Just to watch the water splash in a pond or creek. I recall, about 2003... I was sitting next to a 30 acre private lake. I decided to see if I could aim 'up' and hit the lake with the rounds when they fell back to Earth. 30 "PLUNKS!" in a row ... walking across a lake. It was damn cool. TRG How long did it take them to fall back down? 12 years ago ... I'd just be guessing, but it seemed like 10-12 seconds between fired and impact. Subsonic 40gr Dynapoints were my go-to 22LR back then. Probably a calculator would give a a better estimate than my memory. "Different bullet types behave in different ways. A .22LR bullet reaches a maximum altitude of 1179 metres and a terminal velocity of either 6o metres per second or 43 metres per second depending upon whether the bullet falls base first or tumbles. The total flight time for the .22LR is between 30 and 36 seconds, while for the .30-06 it is about 58 seconds. The velocities of the different bullets as they leave the rifle muzzle are much higher than their falling velocities. A .22LR has a muzzle velocity of 383 metres per second and the .30-06 has a muzzle velocity of 823 metres per second." Mine were subsonic to begin with, so it might have been more than 12 seconds, but I don't think it was 30 or more. TRG |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:20:50 PM EDT
[#40]
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.22 rimfire is the lowest profit margin round out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. In the last two years the demand would have paid off new equipment, new buildings, new Beemers for each worker, and daily knob polishing for the executives. WTF are they waiting for? This correction will take years. They need to keep a couple cents more per round for themselves and that would be all it would take. At 4 million rds per day, $0.02 per round means $80,000 a day more income. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:23:38 PM EDT
[#41]
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lol Not only is that not true, it wouldn't be smart even if it was. .22 already has the lowest profit margin. They are selling their entire inventory constantly and running their equipment 24/7. All that equipment won't continue to pay off in the long run. Once this .22 panic blows over, now they have way more capacity than they need and all sorts of equipment that won't get used. It doesn't make smart business sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. In the last two years the demand would have paid off new equipment, new buildings, new Beemers for each worker, and daily knob polishing for the executives. WTF are they waiting for? This correction will take years. Not only is that not true, it wouldn't be smart even if it was. .22 already has the lowest profit margin. They are selling their entire inventory constantly and running their equipment 24/7. All that equipment won't continue to pay off in the long run. Once this .22 panic blows over, now they have way more capacity than they need and all sorts of equipment that won't get used. It doesn't make smart business sense. If the current demand pays off all that land and equipment they would be stupid not to. Why wouldn't they want more assets free and clear? |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:25:40 PM EDT
[#42]
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CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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2 solid years since I saw CCI Blazer in stock anywhere. I can find CCI Standard for $0.10 a round. Federal of any kind is still very rare. All I see is CI and Rem. Golden bullets. I need Blazer and Standard Vel. for a competition I participate in. I'm pretty sure we won't have a competition this year with 22 being so hard to find. Especially quality ammo. What gives with CCI and Federal? How is it this bad two full years later with demand as high as ever? What is interfering with supply meeting demand? I'm most likely going to spend $50 a brick for standard velocity tomorrow because I need it to compete. Am I crazy? CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. $0.10 a round delivered. I just found CCI standard for $0.085 per and bought 1000 rounds. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:28:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Glad to hear you found some.
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:33:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember when most people shot .22 bolt guns, pistols or 10/22's with 10 rnd mags? Then the tacticool explosion of every military style weapon, semi auto handgun in .22 lr. Now people are blowing through a brick of 500 in the time they used to shoot 50. It adds up. A whole generation of kids that all have .22 ARs when we all had a 10/22 or a Marlin. We actually shot targets not just mag dumped as fast as possible. When I was a kid, I had a single shot bolt action .22 and a box of 50 lasted my entire range trip. Last weekend I took the wife out shooting. The wife had her purple tiger camo M&P 15-22 with eight loaded 25 round magazines. She emptied them in just a few minutes while I was still unloading my gear. Note: She had reactive targets and wasn't just doing mag dumps into the dirt. Sorta made me wonder how quick you can shoot a 15-22 before it gets hot enough to melt the plastic. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:35:16 PM EDT
[#45]
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But it doesn't exist. You can't buy the shit out of something that you can't find. The prices should have killed the neck beard pricing structure by now. Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's your problem: Quoted:
When it comes back I'm buying it all and stacking it deep But it doesn't exist. You can't buy the shit out of something that you can't find. The prices should have killed the neck beard pricing structure by now. Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? Maybe specialized production equipment that can't be caliber swapped? Big capex to.spend. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:38:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 2 solid years since I saw CCI Blazer in stock anywhere. I can find CCI Standard for $0.10 a round. Federal of any kind is still very rare. All I see is CI and Rem. Golden bullets. I need Blazer and Standard Vel. for a competition I participate in. I'm pretty sure we won't have a competition this year with 22 being so hard to find. Especially quality ammo. What gives with CCI and Federal? How is it this bad two full years later with demand as high as ever? What is interfering with supply meeting demand? I'm most likely going to spend $50 a brick for standard velocity tomorrow because I need it to compete. Am I crazy? CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now. http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. This past weekend I shot up the last of my CCI subsonic. Yesterday I saw that PSA had CCI standard velocity. I placed an order with the hopes it will stay subsonic in my gun. I just got a ship confirmation with UPS tracking info so I should soon know if it will say subsonic and still run my gun. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:44:05 PM EDT
[#47]
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I have to disagree with that based on all the rounds I've shot of each brand. I can't get Wolf to shoot well in two of my CZs, no matter what lot number I try. However, every lot of SK Standard Plus I get shoots in both rifles very well. Something isn't the same there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's a 3-way split between Wolf Match Target, SK Jagd Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Velocity. By the way, the former two are the exact same ammo sold under different brand labeling. I have to disagree with that based on all the rounds I've shot of each brand. I can't get Wolf to shoot well in two of my CZs, no matter what lot number I try. However, every lot of SK Standard Plus I get shoots in both rifles very well. Something isn't the same there. I don't know, but the cartridges certainly look identical (including headstamp), and they shoot roughly the same out of my rifles. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:46:40 PM EDT
[#48]
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I think it is fairly clear now that the increased demand will continue. Time to put in a new production line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is the profit margin too low on 22 long rifle to bother producing more? They're already running 24/7 on the machinery they have. The problem is, increasing production requires a significant capital investment. There's no assurance that the increased level of demand will continue, so the manufacturers have little incentive to invest. They just milk the cash cow they have. Yep, there's been a serious shift in demand that is likely to remain for the foreseeable future. Tons and tons of people purchased .22 rifles in the past few years. The demand curve has shifted, and it's time for the supply curve to adapt to the new demand curve. |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:48:38 PM EDT
[#49]
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Glad to hear you found some. I grabbed another brick. $42.59 otd |
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Posted: 3/26/2015 2:50:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:CCI standard velocity has been available on PSA for the last couple days. It is there right now.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cci-22lr-standard-velocity-500rd-box-50035.html At 9 cents per round, it is slightly higher than what it was 3 years ago (about 7 cents per round), but it is still available. CCI was always higher priced than other brands, but those who shot it know it was because it is some of the most consistent and reliable rimfire out there. I bought some more because it works great with my suppressors. Woa...wait a min. I'm not going to chime in on the "lack of .22LR" topic because I think most of here know why it is so hard to find... But I will reply to your claims. If you were paying $.07/rd pre 2013 for standard vel CCI...they saw you coming. I was routinely getting CCI Blazer 525 bulk boxes for $15-17/pc. Look here: http://web.archive.org/web/20120928155716/http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1301133745/cci-blazer-ammunition-22-long-rifle-40-grain-lead-round-nose Late 2012...5000 case of CCI Blazer bulk $181.99 and from Midway (which was NOT the cheapest place to get .22 back then). Even with Midway's inflated pricing, it was still $.03/rd (almost $.04). Is there such a thing as inflation? Sure. A 200-300% increase in 26 months? No. On topic...I have around 2K left of quality .22...which will all be shot through my M&P 15-22 and all by my 6 year old daughter. After that? I don't give a shit, I'll let that rifle rot before I even contemplate dropping $.10-.20/rd for some cheap-ass .22LR. |
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