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A series that rivals LOTR as best fantasy movie series of all time. IMO.

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Ah, found the explanation in the Silmarillion:
"But of those unhappy ones who were ensnared by Melkor little is known of a certainty. For who of the living has descended into the pits of Utumno, or has explored the darkness of the counsels of Melkor? Yet this is held true by the wise of Eressëa, that all those of the Quendi who came into the hands of Melkor, ere Utumno was broken, were put there in prison, and by slow arts of cruelty were corrupted and enslaved; and thus did Melkor breed the hideous race of the Orcs in envy and mockery of the Elves, of whom they were afterwards the bitterest foes."

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A dwarf-elf love triangle?


So much wasted potential...

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It all comes down to this:

Jackson truly loves Tolkein's work, but he doesn't "get" it.

He can't fathom the subtle temptation of the ring for Galadriel, so he "spookifies" it.

He doesn't understand the dynamics and flow of the battle of minas tirith, so he wings it.

He doesn't understand the siege of helm's deep, so he throws in a bunch of shit (and elves, but I repeat myself).

He doesn't understand dwarves, so he makes them a running joke.

He doesn't understand Thorin Oakenshield, so he makes something else up.

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I liked Evangeline Lilly

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Gollum was a Stoor, one of the River-folk, not a Hobbit.

BTW, it's spelled as shown above Gollum, not golem, as was used and repeated so often, above.

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I definitely feel like Peter went the way of Lucas the further he got into the series.

When Fellowship came out, it was mindblowing. Everything "bigatures", CGI was well streamlined without being too obvious. Legolas wasn't over the top. Aragorn vs the Uruks + Lurtz was the most visceral fight scene I'd seen to date, evidenced by Viggo's chipped tooth.

Two Towers comes out, by which point I'd actually gone back and read the books. I was immediately disappointed to realize Jackson altered the Narsil/Anduril storyline. Aragorn departs Rivendell on the quest with Anduril, and it is a very significant part of Helms Deep. Helms deep was portrayed as one night, when my memory seems to say it was a few day siege, multiple waves of attacks. Overall, lots of fighting but Legolas is now surfing and shooting arrows, like the SW prequels seemingly cool at first but in retrospect un-needed.

Return of the King comes out. FINALLY Anduril, but barely gets any of the limelight. Army of the Dead at Pellenor, because I guess explaining that Aragorn forms an army as they sail upriver is too much work? No scouring of the Shire, I guess some folks don't care but I thought it was important that they return from their adventure to find Hobbiton overrun.

What's this have to do with Hobbit?

Hobbit flicks added way too much in the name of "extra plot" to help the less Tolkienized viewers enjoy it. Hobbit was a children's adventure story, it didn't need a she-elf, Legolas CGI-ing all the things, and certainly seemed a bit stretched to fit into 3 movies. CGI Dain was also very obvious.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

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It was entertaining but missed parts of the original story and created new parts that were not in the original story. I know they took parts of other books and included it, but I would have liked to see them stick to the original as much as possible.

Orcs.
Their nature and origin require more thought. They are not easy to work into the theory and system.

(1). As the case of Aule and the Dwarves shows, only Eru could make creatures with independent wills, and with reasoning powers. But Orcs seem to have both: they can try to cheat Morgoth / Sauron, rebel against him, or criticize him.

(2). ? Therefore they must be corruptions of something pre-existing.

(3). But Men had not yet appeared, when the Orcs already existed. Aulë constructed the Dwarves out of his memory of the Music; but Eru would not sanction the work of Melkor so as to allow the independence of the Orcs. (Not unless Orcs were ultimately remediable, or could be amended and 'saved'?)

It also seems clear (see 'Finrod and Andreth') that though Melkor could utterly corrupt and ruin individuals, it is not possible to contemplate his absolute perversion of a whole people, or group of peoples, and his making that state heritable. [Added later: This latter must (if a fact) be an act of Eru.]

In that case Elves, as a source, are very unlikely. And are Orcs 'immortal', in the Elvish sense? Or trolls? It seems clearly implied in The Lord of the Rings that trolls existed in their own right, but were 'tinkered' with by Melkor.

(4). What of talking beasts and birds with reasoning and speech? These have been rather lightly adopted from less 'serious' mythologies, but play a part which cannot now be excised. They are certainly 'exceptions' and not much used, but sufficiently to show they are a recognized feature of the world. All other creatures accept them as natural if not common.

But true 'rational' creatures, 'speaking peoples', are all of human / 'humanoid' form. Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will. Huan and Sorontar could be Maiar - emissaries of Manwë. But unfortunately in The Lord of the Rings Gwaehir and Landroval are said to be descendants of Sorontar.

In any case is it likely or possible that even the least of the Maiar would become Orcs? Yes: both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits - some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive (and much more powerful and perilous) Orcs; but by practising when embodied procreation they would (cf. Melian) [become] more and more earthbound, unable to return to spirit-state (even demon-form), until released by death (killing), and they would dwindle in force. When released they would, of course, like Sauron, be 'damned': i.e. reduced to impotence, infinitely recessive: still hating but unable more and more to make it effective physically (or would not a very dwindled dead Orc-state be a poltergeist?).

But again - would Eru provide fëar for such creatures? For the Eagles etc. perhaps. But not for Orcs.

It does however seem best to view Melkor's corrupting power as always starting, at least, in the moral or theological level. Any creature that took him for Lord (and especially those who blasphemously called him Father or Creator) became soon corrupted in all parts of its being, the fëa dragging down the hröa in its descent into Morgothism: hate and destruction. As for Elves being 'immortal': they in fact only had enormously long lives, and were themselves physically 'wearing out', and suffering a slow progressive weakening of their bodies.

In summary: I think it must be assumed that 'talking' is not necessarily the sign of the possession of a 'rational soul' or fëa. The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (to mock Men and Elves) deliberately perverted I converted into a more close resemblance to Men. Their 'talking' was really reeling off 'records' set in them by Melkor. Even their rebellious critical words - he knew about them. Melkor taught them speech and as they bred they inherited this; and they had just as much independence as have, say, dogs or horses of their human masters. This talking was largely echoic (cf. parrots). In The Lord of the Rings Sauron is said to have devised a language for them.

The same sort of thing may be said of Húan and the Eagles: they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher level - but they still had no fëar.

But Finrod probably went too far in his assertion that Melkor could not wholly corrupt any work of Eru, or that Eru would (necessarily) interfere to abrogate the corruption, or to end the being of His own creatures because they had been corrupted and fallen into evil.

It remains therefore terribly possible there was an Elvish strain in the Orcs. These may then even have been mated with beasts (sterile!) - and later Men. Their life-span would be diminished. And dying they would go to Mandos and be held in prison till the End.

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They could have accomplished just as much in 2 movies. The acting was good, the story was bloated and tedious.

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A daunting wall of text from Tolkein
....

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I liked them fine enough, though I've never read any of the books. Those of you bitching about the film adaptation - did you REALLY expect things to resemble the books in any way, shape, or form? Lower your expectations, perhaps.

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I liked them fine enough, though I've never read any of the books. Those of you bitching about the film adaptation - did you REALLY expect things to resemble the books in any way, shape, or form? Lower your expectations, perhaps.

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A series that rivals LOTR as best fantasy movie series of all time. IMO.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

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I liked part one best only because it was the first LOTR movies without whiny Froto.