The people involved with pushing this thing through have been very irresponsible. There were studies done way back that warned of everything that has happened and more. If you spend a little time researching it, it's almost comical! Except its costing us money. A lot of money. And at this point everybody involved is pointing the finger at somebody else as to who is on the hook for the over runs. I know one thing for a fact! Christine Gregoire was very rude and dismissive toward anyone that had any warnings about this project. And for that I would like to kick her in the twat!

 

It's a sad day when even the Stranger agrees with you: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/who-to-blame-for-bertha/Content?oid=19894105

Oy.  For almost a decade I built labs.  One of my last projects, and the one that probably did the second most damage to my career, was where they needed tight environmental controls, but didn't have a lot of money.  One of the subcontractors proposed using commercial grade HVAC units instead of the lab grade that was specified.  The engineer told the owner, point blank, that it could work, but there was a substantial risk that they would have problems.  On the construction side, I had misgivings about the subcontractor; they were a plumbing outfit that had expanded into general mechanical work, and this was NOT a straightforward project.  But my senior PM overruled me, and the owner went for the "value engineering."

A year later, it's raining in one of the labs because the RTU's don't control for humidity and were massively oversized for the load - the owner had slowed down their timeline and had only moved in half the production equipment the place was designed for.  

Contractor? "Hey, these units are intended for malls, you can't expect too much of them."
Engineer? "I warned you, and I have my malpractice insurance paid up.  Go ahead and sue."
Senior PM (to me, privately) "Don't you DARE tell me 'I told you so!'" (I wasn't going to, but my face must have betrayed my feelings on the matter.)
Owner CFO "Well, the president of the company and his wife [who made the decisions before construction] are no longer involved with the day to day operations of the company.  Tell me how you are going to fix this."

We wound up tearing the controls out of the HVAC units and installing new controls to run them in a manner they really weren't designed to do - hence voiding the warranty. In the meantime the company really couldn't operate, which meant no revenues.  By the time the system was running "correctly", they were on the financial ropes, and were bought out shortly thereafter.  NOBODY did well out of that situation - company went belly up, subcontractor lost money and reputation, I had a black mark on my resume.  It had the potential to be a little jewel of a building, but people insisted on hiring consultants for their expertise and then NOT listening to them.

Nice. That'll be fun.

That was going to be my question. NYC does it a lot, but they're sitting on bedrock so they don't have the same issues to deal with.

but...but..Queen Christine assured us....why...she even visited Bostons "big dig"  so we would do it right.

aww.....did he hurt your widdle feewings?

Well..by and large voters in Seattle are socialist morons.

What about the projections that most people won't use the tunnel because it will be tolled?

Crumbling down buildings is a much better way than eminent domain what with no courts needed and all.

came here for this, watch out for rotters!

Boneshaker

 lol...let me guess...

Lets not forget the 405 toll idea.....use tax money to build new lanes...charge tax payers to use it.

Is the current double decker viaduct even open right now ? I know they are always measuring for strength ( actual lack of strength ) and shifting / movement every time there is a .0004 magnitude quake in the PNW.

Had they just bull dozed that piece of shit after the big quake when they discovered what a pile of junk it is. It would have been rebuilt and paid for by now with all the: inspection fees - few redos / rebuilds on it and all the feasibility and proposals - studies - hiring experts / analysts etc ... that was wasted on developing the 'Big Bertha Abortion'

I never go into hippy-ville unless I have to. And I avoid the via duct even when I do go.



I will avoid that stretch of interstate also if they ever try to jam a toll up my ass to drive on it. Pretty soon I will live exclusively in Snoho county and never venture into King county for anything

ETA

When I see the buses jammed full of FSA peeps that are on the bus for free - using the interstate system for free ( they own no car - pay no gas tax ) - bypassing the tolls because they are 'on a bus' ....... it gives me a case of the Red Ass.  Yes I know legit tax paying commuters use the bus also... I am referring to the FSA bus riders. Take a look at who is standing around the bus stops. Like any of those pieces of shit have a job

The viaduct is awesome. It should have been bulldozed and rebuild with more lanes.

My wife drives those buses....she tends to give the FSA types a bad time about not paying.

I completely agree on the boulevard.

I think from the sound of it a lot of the changes that they are making downtown are probably good for pedestrian safety. The reason that they pick a 20 MPH speed limit is because pedestrian survivability is extremely good at that speed.

I'm not sure what the right answer is in the long term... the location of the city doesn't make a lot of room for north-south through traffic.

Adding freeway capacity doesn't usually help anything. Many cities have been tearing down their waterfront and elevated freeways. Off the top of my head I can think of New York and San Francisco that have done so quite successfully.

Dallas is currently experiencing a movement to tear down one of theirs.

The land is more valuable to everyone than the freeway is.

My theory is that advances in transport as well as improved urban planning will reduce the need for these things greatly over the next few years.

VMT is already falling in almost every state.

Ask anyone who lives in west seattle how valuable the viaduct is. It's going to be nothing short of nightmarish after this clusterfuck is over.

The viaduct is horrible, it really does ruin what should be the best part of the city.  They should have gone cut-and-cover.  The reason I say that is that the city STILL had to (is in the process of) replace the seawall.  A cut-and-cover viaduct replacement would have killed two birds with one stone.  Seattle is paying twice for what could have been done with one project as best I can see.

as long as someone gets it on camera



 

 
It is in the path of north to south traffic on I-5. I have no need for Seattle. It just blocks my way.  I'm all for anything that gets me through there with the least resistance.  

I'd tell you, you are fucked in the head - but you'd probably take it as a compliment.



I'm to assume you get your jollies watching the planes crash in to the towers, don't you? Good thing they got it on camera, huh?

Its a shame, all the good people here, who have to be associated with shit like this. You are the reason I never tell people I know I frequent this site.

 
Building the state convention center on top of I-5 wasn't any brighter an idea, FWIW, and is the limiting factor for I-5 expansion here.


I-5 running into Portland is just as bad.

Is this similar to Boston's "Big Dig"??

I believe the Big Dig was all cut and cover.

Edit....N/M

Can someone provide me a link to this? Every time I argue against my Seattle friends, who favor this tunnel, I can never find a link that specifically says Hitachi told them.

FWIW - the alternative proposed plan from Cary Moon's group looks better and better every day. Why Seattle didn't go with that- I don't know.

Its kinda similar ....

It is BIG

As far as 'dig' .............. meh - not so much  

They have a groovy escape hatch dug now.

Trying to be tunnel half...full?

The raging hardon you have for me is embarrassing you dude. You should really stop digging.

All you have to do is say "boo" and he'll scamper off.  Classic "give but can't take" mentality.   For all his bluster one of the thinnest skinned people I've ever seen on arf.



ETA-  Also easily manipulable.   Let him think he's "won" and he'll drift off with smug satisfaction of his perceived superiority.  It's pretty funny.





 

Edit: never mind. I don't have the time to get into internet fights over imaginary natural disasters.

the fuck you talking about little boy?

lol..you really think you're all that and a bag of chips...don't ya?   who is it that has who on ignore?...me thinks you are tossing rocks while living in a glass house.

Oh Lord. The butthurt I've caused. Lol. If you cant easily recognize sarcasm as blatantly obvious as my initial comment, then I am sorry for you. Seattle is full of liberal, freedom hating fuck tards, yes, but i still do not wish the death of millions of innocent Americans.

Are you saying that his Bertha is stuck?

Oh no, our Ghost city might collapse! What will all the seamstresses* do?

There's been a lot of interesting conversation about the actual project and the TBM.. let's stick to that.

I honestly have no idea what he is running his yap about....

lol...it's your fault....ya douche.

Oh You mean like the Interstate 5 Columbia Crossing project? lol