Who's basement will this fight be staged in?

Anthony Pettis doesn't even traps

You might want to ban the leg kicks, too.

No, he isn't muscular by any means. Neither is Anderson Silver at 6' 2" and fighting at 185 pounds. He is likely the best the sport has ever seen at any weight class. Not sure about his walking weight but it is probably about 200 pounds:

Do you even Fedor, brah?

You know it!



But with the freakshow matches and the questionable Pride practices I think Anderson has a bigger list of confirmed accomplishments. Now that Andy popped though who the fuck knows who had the more impressive career.  Maybe GSP should be considered the best ever now. I try to stay away from pound for pound discussions because they don't really mean anything because the fighters in them shouldn't be fight each other. Probably something I should have done here because Ronda will never fight men much less random arfcommers. If they want to think about beating up women let them right?

Ha. Bas Rutten has a funny bit he likes to do when this subject comes up. "Never, ever fuck with someone that has a dominant position over you."

JRE Podcast 2:40 min mark

LOL.

Just noticed he said "even though she outweighs him." Ronda is a bantamweight as well. So even weight.

If someone walked into work and said, "Hey, I've played a bit of street ball, I bet I could take Jordan/Kobe/Lebron (or pick the worst player in the NBA) with my size and strength".  You'd look at that person like a moron.

There's no less skill involved for someone, man or woman, that's honed their craft over 17 years.

Foot stomps were ok in early UFC. So was stomping someone who was down. Good stuff, good stuff.

Actual athletic results prove men are more skilled, faster, and stronger.

Her girly skills cannot overcome biology. Evolution is a bitch

A lot of people want to think they can use "dirty fighting" to overcome skill. Biting someone who is armbaring you is a good way to lose an arm.

On the other hand, if someone walked into work and said  "hey, I've played a bit of street ball, I bet I could be in the WNBA", you'd probably nod thoughtfully and agree. Especially if they played ball in high school or college.

Hmmm. Something in this post sounds familiar. Like it's been stated more than once in this very thread.

So were nut shots. I watched every one of the early fights. Cheap shots never changed the direction of a single fight.

Ruas and (iirc) Varlens were stomping the shit out of each other's feet. Didn't make a difference.

Actually it's been proven many times that a smaller, weaker opponent can beat a larger stronger one, so long as they have enough superior skill. It doesn't matter if that person is smaller and weaker because of their gender or not.

What kind of idiot would take that bet???

Those who have put in the time playing a competitive sport as a young adult are aware of their limitations if they're honest with themselves. They know what it means to be strong because they're been beaten by them. They know what it takes to be strong because they've trained beside them. They've either tried to go pro and failed or they realized the monumental amount of work ahead of them and decided to settle for playing on a recreational level.

In other words if someone tells you they could go pro, view with skepticism.

Yeah, but those leg kicks worked.

Mostly it was Ruas with the stomps. Hard to say how much they were working, like the leg kicks it was the result of many over time.

Oh, yeah. I remember that, now. Can you imagine what his legs looked like in a couple days? They were already purple during the fight. Guys can break baseball bats, kicking like that.

One thing I will always remember about Muy Thai training. We had a girl that trained at the same gym and at the end of class, we would all spar a round or two. If there was not another girl there, she sparred with a guy. When I would spar against her, it was always odd at first, because it went against everything I was taught and hitting a female was so taboo. It only took a few leg kicks from her for me to realize I needed to get my shit together before I looked like a fool. Also she was only 15 years old or so and I was 18-21. Ever her leg kicks hurt like a mofo.

I would be interested to see what many of these guys that don't feel Rousey could challenge them in the slightest would do against a woman with high level striking, much less high level grappling (which is much more difficult to overcome).

A few leg kicks against a guy that has no idea how to check them would be commical.

You played my trap card!  

Could that guy beat the best WNBA player in the league?

I bring politics into this because I hate to see members of a site that celebrates the constitution of this great nation wittingly or unwittingly forwarding a communist goal.  I am just trying to help people of this site of from being one of Lenin's useful.......

No emotion just cold hard facts.  Do you deny that feminism is part of communism?

FWIW fat guys carry "pointless mass" until they fall on you, or you try take them down.  

It was an everyday occurrence watching "mr. 180 pound six pack" get completely incapacitated when he got speared by a fat bastard.

FIGHT HER

Favor Rousey 2016

Because, Murica! Don't be listenen to dat Obama stuff. He da devil. I beat all da womenz wit my mighty rugby spear. I learned it watching that Bill Goldberg wrasslin.

Here's a cold, hard fact for you, Donny:  You don't know what you're talking about.  You've bought into years of shitty movies and magical martial-arts marketing.

You are watching the best native hockey player in Cambodia and saying they could beat anyone on a rec League in Canada.   We have idiots in here the actually believe that there are seventy year old Japanese men who could break anybody in three seconds with their depth of knowledge.  
A question for that guy.  Where are all the seventy year old boxers?  Shouldn't they keep gaining more and more skill and experience to overcome their shortcomings? I thought skill could overcome anything?

The unpleasant reality is that no matter how skilled you are, it is dramatically limited by the physical abilities of your body, much like putting Mario Andretti in a Prius.  
Some people understand this, and some people believe that no, it's just a matter of knowing the right thing too do, and if you take my REX-KWON-DO course YOU TOO can OVERCOME ALL OBSTACLES!!!

Lets take a look at some physical evidence, in handy .gif format for the breakdown of just how much of a size and strength matter.

First up: What many people think is the #1 female contender to Rousey, Cris Cyborg, training with former UFC champ Tito Ortiz, who's going at about 30%.



Tito shucks her off like a child, and then hits basic single leg and casually powers her over.




Tito has her up against the wall.  Here's where she uses her skill to leverage off a much larger opponent, who's not even really trying.  Oops, didnt work.  Maybe the crossface?  Nope, not that either. Tito is unmoved by using the technique of Being Large.

Now let's look at Rousey sparring with Gegard Mousasi



Casual trip takedown, hip control, muscled to her back at about 50% effort.  First-year wrestling stuff.




Gegard just picks her up

(Continued from the last)


Gegard rolls her over.  Pay attention to her complete inability to deal with an opponent this size.  She tries to get her hips over him, can't.  Tries to post up, gets her leg straightened out from underneath her.





Again, just a bear hug to the ground






Rousey attacks!  She is unable to impose her will or force her position.  Gegard half-asses his way out of danger




Gegard uses a kind of shuck/duckunder to spin to a heel-grab, wins the scramble for top




Gegard uses his weight and size to avoid counters, picks Rousey up yet again.




I would like to make a few points about the above vidoes:
1.  Those guys are really, really not trying hard.  At all.  Especially on defense, they can pretty much just hunker down and be unmoved.
2.  Every time there is a scramble for positioning, the smaller female fighter loses.  Every time.
3.  If you think the reason these guys are winning is because they are professional male fighters, please show me the high level skills they are employing.  Because to me it looks like pretty damn basic grappling stuff, executed with a minimum of effort.  

Don't think so?  Still think they're using their superior UFC training?

Watch some High School state wrestling matches

There are literally hundreds of high school kids who could do this to these women.

Strikeforce Light Heavyweight Champion.  UFC Light Heavyweight Champion.  

 

I like how you cut off the last part of my post.  You know, the part that specifically addresses this.


Here, I'll post it again for you:

I would like to make a few points about the above vidoes:

1.  Those guys are really, really not trying hard.  At all.  Especially on defense, they can pretty much just hunker down and be unmoved.
2.  Every time there is a scramble for positioning, the smaller female fighter loses.  Every time.
3. If you think the reason these guys are winning is because they are professional male fighters, please show me the high level skills they are employing.  Because to me it looks like pretty damn basic grappling stuff, executed with a minimum of effort.  

Don't think so?  Still think they're using their superior UFC training?

Watch some High School state wrestling matches

There are literally hundreds of high school kids who could do this to these women.

Thanks for posting again.  I did not see your phenomenal point before.  Problem is, that ship sailed long before.  Watch the early UFC's where BJJ goes through everyone, including wrestlers, or any of the TUF series where an amateur with wrestling doesn't know his BJJ yet, or the 1st Frank Mir v. Brock Lesnar fight.  Rhonda has to treat Gegard and Ortiz different because they know BJJ.  She can't use risky or trash moves that would be easily countered by someone who knows what they are doing.  Same way a boxer will approach a skilled opponent versus an unskilled opponent.  Much more cautious.    

 

I don't pretend to know shit about the status of HS wrestling in South Dakota but I believe this girl took seventh place.

I'd think that boys would be lining up for an easy win.

I looked up Gegard and saw that he fought as high as a heavyweight. why compare him to her.

The early days of the UFC had a very thin competitor pool. Within a year or two, wrestling became the dominant style, where it remains today by a large margin. Nearly all of the successful fighters have a wrestling background and have dabbled in or studied other disciplines. Jose Aldo today is the only MMA fighter who has a BJJ basis and is a true standout. Frank Mir was a state champion wrestler, by the way.

 


I'd throw one of these and be winded


 

Ronda got stalled and stopped from using anything while getting muscled into the simplest of takedowns.  

Again with the BJJ is magic shit. The problem with BJJ is that you don't have to be good at it to avoid it.  

She was unable to dictate the situation. She was unable to establish position. She could not enforce her will. She pretty much couldn't do jack shit.

It seems as though boys are just as likely to forfeit as they are to wrestle a girl. Men are psychologically programmed - instinctively - to hold back against women, not hurt them. Competing against a woman is a no-win situation.

There's also the issue of where to put your hands. Wrestling a girl, which I never did, has got to be uniquely different.

Your descriptions of these gifs really show that you don't know what you're looking at.

We're talking about Rousey versus someone who doesn't know BJJ, not wrestler base versus BJJ base versus boxing base.  



 

So, all of Ken Shamrock's years in shootfighting and pancrase should have been plenty to avoid a very simple hadaka jime against a guy whom he had 50 pounds and a considerable amount of strength on, right?

The choke was one of the most basic. The set up was not. That's where the skill and experience matter.

How much experience do you have on the mat or submission fighting against highly skilled competitors?

Break it down for me please!  

eta.
You seem like a reasonable dude.  I feel like we're talking past eachother here, and that we could come to an agreement.
I'm not saying your average dude at Denny's could take Rousey, despite having a distinct size advantage on her.

I'm saying that she is at a significant disadvantage due to her physical limitations against a much larger opponent of moderate skill.  That large men with grappling experience are perhaps more common than people think.  And that I have not seen significant evidence to convince me that her skill level is high enough to overcome such a significant disadvantage. Rousey is not Royce Gracie.

Gegard uses a kind of shuck/duckunder to spin to a heel-grab, wins the scramble for top

This one, in particular, stands out. She was obviously drilling on converting uchi mata into a tuck under knee bar. Gegard obviously knew what she was working on and was presenting several different defenses to that attack. She's not going 100% either, because that's not how you work on technique. In fact, we don't know how long she's been at it. Work on the mat for 3, 4, 5 hours. Even the best, most conditioned fighter, when placed against a larger or fresher one will look very bad. We called them round robins. The guy training for the fight would have 3 or more guys who rotate in so he's always facing someone fresh. This serves several purposes but, I digress.


I won't take the time you took to comment on every one. Obviously some of them you called correctly. But several you are calling "sparring" when it is obviously not randori. They're drilling a specific technique. When doing that, the uke knows what's coming that hones the ability of the tori to hit the technique because when you can hit it against someone who knows it's coming you have it down.


Perhaps I'm misinterpreting your general point. But, if you're trying to say that technique can't make up for size/strength difference regardless of the genders involved, you're demonstrably incorrect. Of course, someone larger, stronger and with some training will beat her. No one who knows whereof they speak is claiming otherwise. That point is further up the graph than many realize, particularly those who have never fought submission.

ETA: To address your ETA Generally agreed.

I would like to cheerfully turn this around on you and question exactly how much you know about wrestling, since you seem to think that many of the things you talk about are unique to some kind of Martial arts training.  I assure you, round robins and technique-specific drilling are carried out in every entry level wrestling program in the nation.   Probably every kid in the video has been wrestling for over a decade, and is in professional-athlete shape.

There are many practitioners of Eastern Martial Arts who still cannot shake of the aura of mysticism and "one true path" feeling that their practice is somehow unique and carries with it some kind of secret lore.  This has been deliberately played up, of course, by enthusiasts and those who are marketing their particular teachings.  I'm not saying you are one of those people.  But they're in this thread.

You can see this in other discussions on the internet - people want easy answers.  What's the best martial art for me to learn.  What's the best gun.  What's the best ammo. What's that secret thing I need to know that will give me the edge.  Nobody wants to hear "hard work" as the answer, or face the idea that nature has it's own cruel limitations that are contrary to your wants and desires.

There is ultimately, very little new under the sun. Techniques go by different names in different places. What the male opponents in the above clips were doing is very, very basic stuff for wrestlers - jockeying for position, closing the distance, manipulating your opponent, limiting their options, controlling their center of gravity.  Most of the moves don't have cool Japanese names, or even the same names from one state to the next.  But they are the product of the distilled experience of millions of man-hours.    

I've seen enough and experience enough combat sports to understand that while there are no absolutes, nature has some very heavy handed suggestions dictated by physics and biology.  We're all searching for that 'One Weird Trick!' that can get us around this fact,  But there's a lot of shit in life that's just not fair.  

I'm surprised you haven't crossed my path here, before. I agree that there is no mystical magic. There's no trick technique (although I  have a couple that some would swear and be damned that I'm practicing some sort of magic. )

I've taught kids, women, MMA hopefuls, cops and your sentiment about "no magic bullet" is one of the first things covered. Particularly with women's courses. "There is no technique I can teach you to allow you to over come a 200 pound violent, muscular man except for how to effectively use a good handgun". Yeah, that didn't go well with some of the woman power types.

I didn't wrestle in school. I have cross trained with some good wrestlers, MT guys, aikido/aikijutsu, and BJJ. Studied a little traditional pancrase. Did some silat and escrima with TDI when John asked my consult on their CQPC course. My main art was JJJ. So I understand the cross over in techniques and terms. I also understand the difference in approaches, styles, nuances, etc. Not tooting my own horn, I assure you. You're wondering where I came from so I'm giving you the facts.  

I've rolled with guys who were fairly good at what they did.
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I could kick. her. ass.

Well, when she was like, 7 or 8 years old.  But you see, that's why I only fight the elderly and children.  It's the warrior in me.

Zhukov, the reason I brought it up is the simple fact someone decided to create an uber-troll thread with the specific intention of trying to tell the men in GD they were weak.  Contrary the manufactured reality of GD, not every guy on this site is fat slob.  

That's feminism, feminism is part of communism.  Perpetuating a lie, to promote an ideology.  Don't be useful to Lenin.

Just because some of us called some bloke out on a load of bollocks, doesn't mean all who disagree are insecure.  Favourite feminist insult too BTW.

I don't think the people arguing are actually in as much disagreement as it appears. Both sides agree: she's not just elite, but arguably the best in the world, someone who fights for a living and has done so all her life, someone at the far end of the spectrum in terms of athleticism and skill. And yet it wouldn't take an elite male fighter to defeat her, merely a skilled one.  A skilled male fighter can beat a bigger, stronger non-fighter. The same holds for women, but the threshold beyond which skill cannot reach is lower. That is the best illustration of the inherent disadvantage women have when facing men that I can think of.