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Posted: 4/21/2001 4:43:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 4:43:40 PM EST by M4]
I realize that the answer for this question may very from state to state, but a general answer would be fine. If I'm out at say, the mall, and while I'm heading back to my car I see a guy trying to yank the purse out of a womans arms. There is an obvious struggle taking place. Is it legal for me to stop the crime by brandishing my weapon? Or does it have to be a situation where I am personally in danger or the life of someone else is in danger? I know citizens can make a citizens arrest, but can a CCP holder use his/her weapon to do so if a felony is occuring?
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 4:50:51 PM EST
Here in FL, it is legal, so long as it is in defense of your self, or unarmed members of your "party" from death/great bodily harm. I have a feeling, though, that unless you live in a majorily bass-ackwards state, that, Yeah. You could come to the aid of the lady without fear of prosecution. Speaking for myself, I thank god i'm not you. I don't live my life fearing such things. If my coincience told me 2 help her, then I would. Wouldn't have 2 think twice about it, or ask it as a question on a message board. Jeeeeeez. These are the people we are counting on to be recalcitrant when the "Gun Bans" come? Lame. McUZI
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 4:53:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 4:57:15 PM EST by M4]
Originally Posted By ChiefCrappingCattle: Here in FL, it is legal, so long as it is in defense of your self, or unarmed members of your "party" from death/great bodily harm. I have a feeling, though, that unless you live in a majorily bass-ackwards state, that, Yeah. You could come to the aid of the lady without fear of prosecution. Speaking for myself, I thank god i'm not you. I don't live my life fearing such things. If my coincience told me 2 help her, then I would. Wouldn't have 2 think twice about it, or ask it as a question on a message board. Jeeeeeez. These are the people we are counting on to be recalcitrant when the "Gun Bans" come? Lame. McUZI
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I didn't say I was affraid of anything now did I? And I never said that I'd allow unjust laws from preventing me from doing the right thing. I simply asked about the legality of the situational use of a firearm. Reading, it's fundamental......McTard
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 4:54:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 4:55:36 PM EST by Halfcocked]
A good person would lend a hand to the person in trouble whether armed or not. Then if the perp came after you, while helping the victom , pop a cap on his ass.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 4:56:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 5:03:44 PM EST by jeepboy]
Originally Posted By ChiefCrappingCattle: Here in FL, it is legal, so long as it is in defense of your self, or unarmed members of your "party" from death/great bodily harm. I have a feeling, though, that unless you live in a majorily bass-ackwards state, that, Yeah. You could come to the aid of the lady without fear of prosecution. Speaking for myself, I thank god i'm not you. I don't live my life fearing such things. If my coincience told me 2 help her, then I would. Wouldn't have 2 think twice about it, or ask it as a question on a message board. Jeeeeeez. These are the people we are counting on to be recalcitrant when the "Gun Bans" come? Lame. McUZI
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Hey, McUzi, I too am in Fl. and I dont think it has to be someone in your party. If you were walking and heard screams, investigated, and saw woman being raped, I believe you have the right to intervene with your firearm. As long as there is the potential of death or bodily harm involved, I THINK you have the right. BTW, I have noticed (how could anyone NOT) all the back and forth, for and against you. No matter if we disagree or not, or the outcome of you getting flamed and booted all the time, I believe you have a hell of an imagination, and are pretty damn funny. "ChiefCrappingCattle" is just another example. I am just not sure if you are schitzo. or not. Brian
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 4:57:47 PM EST
Horseshit M4, and you know it. If you operate solely on the basis of your concience (Like a free man), then "...what matters the legal script..." Or, translated for you dumbasses, If you do what you want to do, regardless of the law, why waste valueable time inquring about laws that have no effect on you?? Why? Because they do have an effect on you, M4. You WILL follow them, no matter what your concience tells you to do. I can tell from your inquiry. It screams [B][RED]SERF!!![/B][/RED]
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:00:14 PM EST
Are you defending the life of yourself or another? If yes, than it would be OK to brandish the gun to get control of the situation. But try to use = force first (hands/feet/elbows/etc.). Cops know this concept as the "use of force continuum." However. [u][b]DO NOT[/b][/u] fire the weapon unless you are in [red]grave danger[/red] (IE. you are about to be attacked with a weapon or you are WAY outnumbered). Remember, it is just a purse. No one should die because of a purse. Your life on the other hand.... If you have not read it already, read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. Great advice for civilian armed encounters.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:02:32 PM EST
M4, would you try and intervene,WITHOUT USING YOUR CARRY FIREARM? You would not want to do so and then wait if the situation escalated to use it. Too late then. Now you didnt mention if it was McUzi who is stealing the purse?? Brian
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:05:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By ChiefCrappingCattle: Horseshit M4, and you know it. If you operate solely on the basis of your concience (Like a free man), then "...what matters the legal script..." Or, translated for you dumbasses, If you do what you want to do, regardless of the law, why waste valueable time inquring about laws that have no effect on you?? Why? Because they do have an effect on you, M4. You WILL follow them, no matter what your concience tells you to do. I can tell from your inquiry. It screams [B][RED]SERF!!![/B][/RED]
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I was bored and curious. But that explanation ruins all your fun at flaming a total stranger. But then again, I'm sure your leap in to fantasy-land makes you feel far more adequate than real life could ever afford you. Have fun dork.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:07:35 PM EST
In AZ you have the legal right to use whatever force is necessary to stop a robbery. If the perp had no weapon and was not striking or hurting anyone you can still draw down on them, if they come at you, you can shoot. In the event you describe without violence you could be in big trouble if you shoot though depending on the judge and jury. I would recommend helping without drawing your weapon until there is a sign of a real threat to you or the person being robbed. THISISME
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:08:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:09:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 5:28:51 PM EST by ChiefCrappingCattle]
Look M4. You are acting all cranky like you have the clap, or something. Do you have a rash on your vagina? What should you do??
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:17:56 PM EST
Hey McDork, just smear a little Vagisil on it and come back tomorrow, you're a little whiney today.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:21:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 5:21:08 PM EST by jeepboy]
Originally Posted By M4: Hey McDork, just smear a little Vagisil on it and come back tomorrow, you're a little whiney today.
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DAMN, IS EVERY THREAD DOOMED TO A STANDOFF BETWEEN MCUZI AND SOMEONE????? FUNNY NONETHELESS. Brian
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:23:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: Never brandish a firearm in a situation where shooting the person dead is not appropriate. Some people would believe that killing a purse-snatcher is appropriate - good luck on finding a jury that wouldn't convict you or a state full of lawyers who wouldn't sue to into the poorhouse for killing a purse-snatcher. If the wayward fellow was beating the woman to death to take her purse it's a different matter. Waving a pistol at someone hoping that it will scare them away isn't good tactics. Typically you'll spend longer in jail than the purse-snatcher. If you attempt to murder the youngster likewise you're in for a longer sentence. Yelling at the guy or advancing toward the parties would be the gallant thing to do. I would say something like I’ve called the police. Shooting the turd would be a less than satisfactory result. In your house a different set of engagement rules exist and in some states your car as well. For the house I like “I’ve got a gun and the police are on the way”. In my CCW training I was told never to display the weapon unless I was drawing it and to never draw without the intent to shoot and never shoot without the objective to kill. I have a life, career, family, and property that I'm not willing to piss away over some ladies purse ... my estate and freedom could buy the woman several new purses.
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Sure, Paul, but that's no fun. Thinking can lead to headaches, and I just want to kill somebody. If I have to settle for a purse snatcher, well, so be it. After all, he is wrong, and purses are worth dying for when I am around. There's a new law in town now!
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 5:54:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2001 5:56:38 PM EST by Matt_S]
I think this varies BIG TIME by state. I just went throught the AZ CCW class today, and if her life is not reasonably in jeapordy, you could be in trouble. I envision him holding the strap of the purse while trying to run away. There are certain crimes that you can draw a firearm and try to stop. Robbery is one of them. But I think you had better think real hard before you show your weapon. If the BG sees your weapon on him, and he kills you, he was acting in self defense. Especially if you could not see a weapon on him. In Indiana you have just brandished a firearm, and may be in trouble for that. What I would do if I were in your shoes is get a copy of your state laws. And read them and know them. If her life is not endanger, yeah she may lose her purse, and you violate a law of your state, all you have succeeded in doing is destroying your life. Please do your research, and know your laws before you act. I legal system unfortunately does not act on honor, it just tries to maximize prosecutions, righfully or not.... Edited to say, sorry thisisme I didn't read your post before. You give good advice!
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 6:09:58 PM EST
What Paul said, If he's beating her with a pipe, then in most states you are ok to draw and fire if he doesn't obey you warning to stop or he comes after you. If he's just attempting to take her purse you would not be justified in using or threatening the use of deadly force.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 6:25:03 PM EST
In Florida its called another persons shoes law.If you see some one being attacked you may intervine.If you believe this person is about to be hurt or killed you may use the same force as if it was yourself.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 6:42:44 PM EST
Be careful when you walk into the middle of an incident as you have no idea what has taken place beforehand. In your instance, the woman may have stolen the purse from someone else and her husband is attempting to retrieve it. Also, citizens arrest varies from state to state. NC has no such thing at all. The most we can do is hold someone for a reasonable time for the police to show up.
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 8:34:01 PM EST
If you are in Colorado, what constitutes a reasonable amount of time for the police to act?
Link Posted: 4/21/2001 9:03:25 PM EST
Deadly Physical Force can be used in cases where you are preventing Serious Physical Injury or death to yourself or a third person here in NY. Physical Force (i.e. the force necessary to halt an action) may be used to terminate a misdemeanor on up, like say criminal mischief. Honestly, if someone is commiting a strongarm robbery(a felony) it can quickly degrade to an assault to accomplish the criminal's intent(getting the purse.) If I as a CCW holder am going to intervene, my first thought of the method to do so is not "fists, hands, feet". Why risk an ass whipping, only to have my weapon taken from me. I think I'd voice my presence, my possesion of a weapon, and a wish for the perp to terminate his actions. We'd move on from there. Remember, just brandishing in it of itself is not necessarily a crime. We need to know the context of the action. If I pay a visit to the local deli and tell them if they ever short me on the full pound of mozzerella cheese I asked for, there's gonna be trouble, while brushing back my wind breaker to reveal my .38 snubbie in my waistband....now that's brandishing! If displayed in accordance with the laws there should be no problem in worryiong about legal reprecussions from acting properly. It's not deadly physical force if you don't shoot 'em/ Just my thoughts. I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm gonna have some more cough syrup.
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