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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:39:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really...just another noisy troll thread by folks who do not believe...but, just gotta be as noisy as possible about what they do not believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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 Agreed. One of the more out there stories. Not really...just another noisy troll thread by folks who do not believe...but, just gotta be as noisy as possible about what they do not believe. Did you read the linked article? It's an explanation of why Noah's Ark could be literally true, not a debunking of it. The OP is not a nonbelieving troll unless he's being very subtle about it. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:40:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:41:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Next you are going to say it is only the "literal fundies" who Think Jesus was GOD incarnate who healed the sick raised the dead and turned water into wine. you know they recently found an underground ocean 3 times bigger than our surface oceans. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth-core-underground-video_n_5491692.html Christians have been saying this for a long time science is just catching up. Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:41:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:41:47 PM EDT
[#5]
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It's difficult for me to fathom that people have such a hard time with the concept that the Bible may be a mixture of fact and literary devices like metaphor and parable. Why they must cling to the idea that one may either believe all of it literally, or none of it. If the flood story is a metaphor for something, then it can be true without being literally true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm curious how some people can definitively say that "this" or "that" from the bible isn't true, but that other stuff is. Where does one draw the line? If you don't accept the Great Flood as being literal, what about turning water into wine? Raising from the dead? Parting the Red Sea? The virgin birth? The fact that Jesus called Himself the Son of God? How can one believe in an all-powerful Creator of the universe and then not believe any of the above? It's difficult for me to fathom that people have such a hard time with the concept that the Bible may be a mixture of fact and literary devices like metaphor and parable. Why they must cling to the idea that one may either believe all of it literally, or none of it. If the flood story is a metaphor for something, then it can be true without being literally true. Except there really was a flood. A big one. No one knows precisely how big, but it was of "biblical" proportions (no pun intended). |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:42:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because if it's literal then it's demonstrable non-factual. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:42:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except there really was a flood. A big one. No one knows precisely how big, but it was of "biblical" proportions (no pun intended). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm curious how some people can definitively say that "this" or "that" from the bible isn't true, but that other stuff is. Where does one draw the line? If you don't accept the Great Flood as being literal, what about turning water into wine? Raising from the dead? Parting the Red Sea? The virgin birth? The fact that Jesus called Himself the Son of God? How can one believe in an all-powerful Creator of the universe and then not believe any of the above? It's difficult for me to fathom that people have such a hard time with the concept that the Bible may be a mixture of fact and literary devices like metaphor and parable. Why they must cling to the idea that one may either believe all of it literally, or none of it. If the flood story is a metaphor for something, then it can be true without being literally true. Except there really was a flood. A big one. No one knows precisely how big, but it was of "biblical" proportions (no pun intended). We DO know that it wasn't global and it didn't cover the highest mountains. We're about 100% certain of that. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:42:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats funny he says reason be damned but he has discounted it without any actual knowledge and has only made flawed assumptions. It is like talking to Anthropological Global warming Cultists or holocaust deniers. you can provide them with the evidence that they say they want all day long but it will never be enough they are stuck in their minds that the bible is an allegory and myth. They delude themselves telling each other how smart and progressive they are when the whole lot are utterly blind to the reality around them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Next you are going to say it is only the "literal fundies" who Think Jesus was GOD incarnate who healed the sick raised the dead and turned water into wine. you know they recently found an underground ocean 3 times bigger than our surface oceans. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth-core-underground-video_n_5491692.html Christians have been saying this for a long time science is just catching up. Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true  The irony is hilarious. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:42:55 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:42:58 PM EDT
[#10]
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head.  
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:43:39 PM EDT
[#11]
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At one point it was literal, until it became increasingly non-factual. Today's fundamentalist Christians are yesterday's regular old Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because if it's literal then it's demonstrable non-factual. Actually, that's not really true. The current crop of literalist fundamentalists are a fairly recent phenomenon, dating only to the early 20th Century. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:44:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except there really was a flood. A big one. No one knows precisely how big, but it was of "biblical" proportions (no pun intended). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm curious how some people can definitively say that "this" or "that" from the bible isn't true, but that other stuff is. Where does one draw the line? If you don't accept the Great Flood as being literal, what about turning water into wine? Raising from the dead? Parting the Red Sea? The virgin birth? The fact that Jesus called Himself the Son of God? How can one believe in an all-powerful Creator of the universe and then not believe any of the above? It's difficult for me to fathom that people have such a hard time with the concept that the Bible may be a mixture of fact and literary devices like metaphor and parable. Why they must cling to the idea that one may either believe all of it literally, or none of it. If the flood story is a metaphor for something, then it can be true without being literally true. Except there really was a flood. A big one. No one knows precisely how big, but it was of "biblical" proportions (no pun intended). There have been many catastrophic floods throughout human history. No evidence of one that covered the entire world, not to mention the issues with the assumption that all aquatic life would survive such an event. So maybe the flood was real, but its proportions and the story of the ark are metaphor. Still can be true without being literally true. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:45:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm curious how some people can definitively say that "this" or "that" from the bible isn't true, but that other stuff is. Where does one draw the line? If you don't accept the Great Flood as being literal, what about turning water into wine? Raising from the dead? Parting the Red Sea? The virgin birth? The fact that Jesus called Himself the Son of God? How can one believe in an all-powerful Creator of the universe and then not believe any of the above? Most likely because it is a culmination for stories written by many different mortal men over a very long period of time. The stories were then picked and assembled by mortal men over a period of time. After that, it was edited and translated many times over, again by mortal men over a long period of time. Whether we believe it is the true "word of god" or not, I think it's important we remember how the modern bible came to be. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:45:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. What then is that thing on Ararat? 
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:45:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really...just another noisy troll thread by folks who do not believe...but, just gotta be as noisy as possible about what they do not believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Agreed. One of the more out there stories. Not really...just another noisy troll thread by folks who do not believe...but, just gotta be as noisy as possible about what they do not believe. Job is thought, by even some very conservative Christians, to be a parable. Paul states that some of what he wrote is just his opinion. Fanatical, blind, fundamentalism is rarely a good thing when approaching anything. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:45:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:48:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I was brought up Roman Catholic and from an early age I was always in trouble for asking why this and why that. Only the truly brain damaged can take the Bible, Tora, Koran or any other book of like nature as literal truth. You can still have faith in a higher power while questioning the writings of men.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:49:10 PM EDT
[#18]
You know this is why the Unicorns died out?
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:50:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh because you say so, apparently you and others like you are the arbators of truth. You are so self righteous in your thought that you think the bible is wrong or a metaphor that you attack people who disagree with you because you have no proof to the claims you make and when proof shows you incorrect you try to discount them and make it out to be something else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. You've offered no proof, nor even evidence. And you're the one doing the attacking, if you hadn't noticed. And the word is "arbiters." |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:50:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh because you say so, apparently you and others like you are the arbators of truth. You are so self righteous in your thought that you think the bible is wrong or a metaphor that you attack people who disagree with you because you have no proof to the claims you make and when proof shows you incorrect you try to discount them and make it out to be something else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. Says the guy who claims authority to declare who is and is not Christian. Catholics don't subscribe to biblical literalism or sola scriptura - and there's 1.2 billion of us. That's some serious hubris on your part. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:51:24 PM EDT
[#21]
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/30/science/30species.html?_r=0
In recent decades, scientists have looked for better ways to determine how many species are left to find. In 1988, Robert May, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Oxford, observed that the diversity of land animals increases as they get smaller. He reasoned that we probably have found most of the species of big animals, like mammals and birds, so he used their diversity to calculate the diversity of smaller animals. He ended up with an estimate 10 to 50 million species of land animals.
Other estimates have ranged from as few as 3 million to as many as 100 million. Dr. Mora and his colleagues believed that all of these estimates were flawed in one way or another. Most seriously, there was no way to validate the methods used, to be sure they were reliable. For the new estimate, the scientists came up with a method of their own, based on how taxonomists classify species. Each species belongs to a larger group called a genus, which belongs to a larger group called a family, and so on. We humans, for example, belong to the class of mammals, along with about 5,500 other species. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:52:40 PM EDT
[#22]
The only true god is Eugene Stoner and the only boat I know about is the one that sank with all my guns.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:55:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL false. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Next you are going to say it is only the "literal fundies" who Think Jesus was GOD incarnate who healed the sick raised the dead and turned water into wine. you know they recently found an underground ocean 3 times bigger than our surface oceans. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth-core-underground-video_n_5491692.html Christians have been saying this for a long time science is just catching up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Next you are going to say it is only the "literal fundies" who Think Jesus was GOD incarnate who healed the sick raised the dead and turned water into wine. you know they recently found an underground ocean 3 times bigger than our surface oceans. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/13/hidden-ocean-earth-core-underground-video_n_5491692.html Christians have been saying this for a long time science is just catching up. Aw...it's cute when fundies try |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:56:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only the parts they agree with. Just look at how Christians treat Leviticus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can never remember which parts of the Torah Christians buy and which parts they do not. Only the parts they agree with. Just look at how Christians treat Leviticus. The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We DO know that it wasn't global and it didn't cover the highest mountains. We're about 100% certain of that. Even today the vast majority of the worlds population lives on or very near the coast. Rising sea levels could easily explain an ancient perception of a Global flood when 80% to 90% of your population was displaced. I'm not saying this is what caused the Noah story but throwing it out there a a possible theory. Hell just start a rumor at work and see how fast the story evolves in a very short period of time. The story of a great ancient flood appears in many ancient civilizations not just the Bible. So to me there is no doubt something happened to cause this. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:03:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? Yes I do How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? There was called Pangaea but way long before people way way longer than 6000 years ago. Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. Yep Scientist's call it plate tectonics. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Mountains are formed when plate push together and push up the rock where they meet. Ocean are where plates are spreading apart. But this happen on a scale of millions of years not thousands. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:04:04 PM EDT
[#27]
I just don't see anything worth getting worked up about here. As others have said long ago,
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary." I'm willing to accept some things on faith with the hope that someday God will bless me with greater understanding as I prepare my heart and mind to receive it. I am not opposed to studying the world around me to better understand the laws that govern it, either. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:04:52 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm just here so I don't get fined...............
I think the earth looked different before and after the flood. Doesn't explain anything but there is no mention of how high the mountains and hills were before the flood. Something drastic tore up the earth at some point in history. Don't know if that is related to the great flood or not. ymmv |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:05:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can never remember which parts of the Torah Christians buy and which parts they do not. Only the parts they agree with. Just look at how Christians treat Leviticus. The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? I love how you completely ignore my statement regarding how many Fundamentalist Christians only follow the old Laws they agree with, and then go off on a completely unrelated tangent. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:15:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get out of my head. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:15:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh because you say so, apparently you and others like you are the arbators of truth. You are so self righteous in your thought that you think the bible is wrong or a metaphor that you attack people who disagree with you because you have no proof to the claims you make and when proof shows you incorrect you try to discount them and make it out to be something else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Science is knowledge of GOD creation. Just because atheists ant anti theists try to Hijack Science and equate it as absent of GOD and that SCIENCE and GOD are separate. Sorry but a lot of what is being thrown out as science has nothing to do with science it is an attempt to try to discredit a belief in GOD. If a scientists comes out in and uses evidence to show How GOD is the creator he is immediately cast out of the "scientific" community. All science is is the understanding of GODS creation and the laws he put into place. The outright denial or ignoring of the creator shows that many so called scientists are not scientific at all but hacks. You get so many who make outlandish claims against the bible and later get proven wrong and all their supporters are like "well that means nothing" It is like a mental disorder. The ignorance here is striking. You don't know the first thing about science. Or history. Or even the Bible, beyond having read his particular translation of it. If you believe, you should just believe. Stop tying to PROVE it. Science is the admission that you don't know how something happens and trying to figure it out. You claim to know how everything happened and then fit whatever info you cherry pick to prove that end. Science is the ability to be shown that your best guess was wrong. It's not the original guess of how something happens, it's the final result. They don't always match. If you are not willing to do that, just call it faith and stop with the crap understanding of science. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:19:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't see anything worth getting worked up about here. As others have said long ago, "For those who believe, no proof is necessary." I'm willing to accept some things on faith with the hope that someday God will bless me with greater understanding as I prepare my heart and mind to receive it. I am not opposed to studying the world around me to better understand the laws that govern it, either. That's exactly where I am. It's no skin off my back if water once covered the entire earth or not, or if the Red Sea parted. What I won't do is dogmatically say "it didn't happen," because...maybe it did. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:21:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even today the vast majority of the worlds population lives on or very near the coast. Rising sea levels could easily explain an ancient perception of a Global flood when 80% to 90% of your population was displaced. I'm not saying this is what caused the Noah story but throwing it out there a a possible theory. Hell just start a rumor at work and see how fast the story evolves in a very short period of time. The story of a great ancient flood appears in many ancient civilizations not just the Bible. So to me there is no doubt something happened to cause this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We DO know that it wasn't global and it didn't cover the highest mountains. We're about 100% certain of that. Even today the vast majority of the worlds population lives on or very near the coast. Rising sea levels could easily explain an ancient perception of a Global flood when 80% to 90% of your population was displaced. I'm not saying this is what caused the Noah story but throwing it out there a a possible theory. Hell just start a rumor at work and see how fast the story evolves in a very short period of time. The story of a great ancient flood appears in many ancient civilizations not just the Bible. So to me there is no doubt something happened to cause this. And the there's the Bible Codes. Only discovered when man plugged the Bible into computers... No other piece of literature, let alone series of books, has them. And they cross over, from book to book. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#34]
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LOL false. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. If you do not believe in stories like the flood you are not a christian. Bullhockey. Do I believe the story is true? Yes. Do I believe the story is literally true? I highly doubt it. So obviously there is a story there that God is trying to teach a lesson through. Like the fact that He keeps His covenants with those who obey Him. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:23:45 PM EDT
[#35]
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one of the many absurdities that drove me away from the faith. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true
one of the many absurdities that drove me away from the faith. Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. 
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:27:13 PM EDT
[#36]
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Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true
one of the many absurdities that drove me away from the faith. Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. Sadly its waaaay more than just a few. Maybe it where I live but every church I've ever been in has been that way. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:27:44 PM EDT
[#37]
I will take this opportunity to say I believe in the literal translation of the bible and don't care what anyone thinks of that.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:29:22 PM EDT
[#38]
  
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:30:57 PM EDT
[#39]
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Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. thanks man, sincerely. i grew out of my ardent atheist phase, and am open to the idea of god once again. there are times i actually wish i still believed, but i just don't--it no longer has the ring of truth for me. but i keep my heart open. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:31:33 PM EDT
[#40]
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I love how you completely ignore my statement regarding how many Fundamentalist Christians only follow the old Laws they agree with, and then go off on a completely unrelated tangent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can never remember which parts of the Torah Christians buy and which parts they do not. Only the parts they agree with. Just look at how Christians treat Leviticus. The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? I love how you completely ignore my statement regarding how many Fundamentalist Christians only follow the old Laws they agree with, and then go off on a completely unrelated tangent. When Jesus told the crowd, "he who is without sin, throw the first stone", any one of them could have walked up to Jesus and handed Him a rock. It would have been a different story, I guess...but there will always be this debate on the law. Long story short - Romans 7:1-13 |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:32:41 PM EDT
[#41]
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Sadly its waaaay more than just a few. Maybe it where I live but every church I've ever been in has been that way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why can't the Bible be literal? Either its all true or none of its true
one of the many absurdities that drove me away from the faith. Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. Sadly its waaaay more than just a few. Maybe it where I live but every church I've ever been in has been that way. I know, but I'm speaking about those who repel rather than welcome. I believe Scripture to be 100% true and inerrant. On the other hand, it is readily apparent that a global flood did not cover the planet in anything resembling the time period covered by the geologic record, so obviously there is more to it than just history. I believe there is more in what the story represents than its literal truth. And if one day we find scientific proof of it, then fine. If not, then also fine. Doesn't make or break my faith one way or the other. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:34:53 PM EDT
[#42]
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thanks man, sincerely. i grew out of my ardent atheist phase, and am open to the idea of god once again. there are times i actually wish i still believed, but i just don't--it no longer has the ring of truth for me. but i keep my heart open. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... Sadly, that premise is all wrong. Come on back, and don't let a few folks dissuade you. thanks man, sincerely. i grew out of my ardent atheist phase, and am open to the idea of god once again. there are times i actually wish i still believed, but i just don't--it no longer has the ring of truth for me. but i keep my heart open. I never reached militant phase, but for a very brief time, I too concluded that there was nothing else. Fortunately the Big Guy reached into my heart and smacked me back into reality.
I won't say it's easy. After all, either conclusion is earth-shattering in its own right. I guess the only advice I can humbly offer is to find those who believe quietly, and struggle with doubt every day. I know I can't be the only one.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:37:31 PM EDT
[#43]
I used to be a fundamentalist. Then I realized I was allowed to think.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 3:37:57 PM EDT
[#44]
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When Jesus told the crowd, "he who is without sin, throw the first stone", any one of them could have walked up to Jesus and handed Him a rock. It would have been a different story, I guess...but there will always be this debate on the law. Long story short - Romans 7:1-13 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can never remember which parts of the Torah Christians buy and which parts they do not. Only the parts they agree with. Just look at how Christians treat Leviticus. The laws were given to the Israelites to live by. They were to be a nation of priests for the world. They were set apart. They were different. They were holy. God never required the rest of the world to live by those laws, unless they resided with the Israelites. And Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. As to the flood, you think the Grand Canyon was made by a little river? How come there aren't any others remotely like it? However, a landlocked ocean... Mountains make it impossible? What if at the time there was only one continent? Google earth shows how things broke up, slide around. That's probably how and when most mountain ranges were formed, even in the oceans. Why is it important for Christians to believe God? When He tells us that before the fall of man there was no death? It's the entire salvation story. Jesus dying on a cross was meaningless if there was never a moment in time man fell. In the garden. Just as described in Genesis. Evolution was invented by a heathen who needed to come up with another way we all came to be, devoid of a loving God and Creator. Scientists are the high priests of this new religion. Man was made in the image of God. So chose what will save you. Some asshat wearing a white coat or the Son of God? I love how you completely ignore my statement regarding how many Fundamentalist Christians only follow the old Laws they agree with, and then go off on a completely unrelated tangent. When Jesus told the crowd, "he who is without sin, throw the first stone", any one of them could have walked up to Jesus and handed Him a rock. It would have been a different story, I guess...but there will always be this debate on the law. Long story short - Romans 7:1-13 So, although you probably have your reasons for dancing around the issue, what should I say to people who use one verse out of context to back up their personal views, while ignoring the verses that come before and after the verse that they've cherry-picked? For instance, Leviticus 19:28 was recently brought up in a thread about tattoos by a person who was not following the commandments of Leviticus 19:27 or 19:26 for that matter. Also, the post was made on the Sabbath, which would violate several other Commandments. What should I say to them to keep them accountable? |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:09:09 PM EDT
[#45]
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Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Supreme Being can do anything. But it doesn't make sense that He create the laws of nature and then have to suspend them. Just the simple fact that, that much fresh water would kill all the ocean fish would cause a logically minded person to contemplate a different meaning and possibility for the story. I like Mr. Feynman's thoughts on the matter. (not directly regarding the flood story, but still applicable, I think) Belief is great if you have it. For some, it's not available. One can't force one's self to believe something they do not.
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:18:51 PM EDT
[#46]
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Supreme Being can do anything. But it doesn't make sense that He create the laws of nature and then have to suspend them. Just the simple fact that, that much fresh water would kill all the ocean fish would cause a logically minded person to contemplate a different meaning and possibility for the story. I like Mr. Feynman's thoughts on the matter. (not directly regarding the flood story, but still applicable, I think) Belief is great if you have it. For some, it's not available. One can't force one's self to believe something they do not.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Supreme Being can do anything. But it doesn't make sense that He create the laws of nature and then have to suspend them. Just the simple fact that, that much fresh water would kill all the ocean fish would cause a logically minded person to contemplate a different meaning and possibility for the story. I like Mr. Feynman's thoughts on the matter. (not directly regarding the flood story, but still applicable, I think) Belief is great if you have it. For some, it's not available. One can't force one's self to believe something they do not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4To you or I..it doesn't make sense.....but who are we? |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:23:10 PM EDT
[#47]
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Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? No, he lacks the evil intent to do that and make every piece of evidence say it didn't happen. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#48]
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To you or I..it doesn't make sense.....but who are we? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Supreme Being can do anything. But it doesn't make sense that He create the laws of nature and then have to suspend them. Just the simple fact that, that much fresh water would kill all the ocean fish would cause a logically minded person to contemplate a different meaning and possibility for the story. I like Mr. Feynman's thoughts on the matter. (not directly regarding the flood story, but still applicable, I think) Belief is great if you have it. For some, it's not available. One can't force one's self to believe something they do not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4To you or I..it doesn't make sense.....but who are we? We are logical beings, created in His image who have acquired the knowledge of good and evil and become "like Him" with regard to that ability and therefore have fallen and are held accountable for that ability. With that comes the ability to use reason and logic. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:31:25 PM EDT
[#49]
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Noah's Ark is just another example of how Fundamentalists have hamstrung themselves by a too-literal reading of the book of Genesis, really. Rational Christians could take it as the story of a regional flood (for which there is ample evidence) in the Middle East in prehistory used as a morality tale by the Bible. Instead, literalist Fundamentalists insist on a literal flooding of the Earth beyond the top of the highest mountains with all the physical impossibilities that entails. The real message in the story of the Ark is that God is not going to destroy the earth every time humans act evil. If He did that then the world would have been flooded again in the 1940s and other times, wouldn't it? Genesis is neither a history book or a science book. It is a narrative of the relationship between Man and God and should be view as such. |
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Posted: 2/24/2015 4:34:11 PM EDT
[#50]
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To you or I..it doesn't make sense.....but who are we? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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most likely because it was written for Bronze Age nomadic tribes and they wouldn't have understood it otherwise. Get out of my head. Let me see if I have this straight...A God..capable of creating an entire universe...lacks the ability to cover one planet with water? Supreme Being can do anything. But it doesn't make sense that He create the laws of nature and then have to suspend them. Just the simple fact that, that much fresh water would kill all the ocean fish would cause a logically minded person to contemplate a different meaning and possibility for the story. I like Mr. Feynman's thoughts on the matter. (not directly regarding the flood story, but still applicable, I think) Belief is great if you have it. For some, it's not available. One can't force one's self to believe something they do not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4To you or I..it doesn't make sense.....but who are we? Interesting to realize that while filming that he knew he was probably going to succumb to cancer. In answer to your question who are we? I suspect the only truly terrifying thing would be to know the mind of God, not so much for the content, rather the enormity of it. |
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