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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:30:56 PM EDT
[#1]
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For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. Why don't you go back to the very first response you made to me, and make an honest assessment of who started the condescending snarkiness. Which you then continued even after I posted links to relevant Code sections. You didn't want answers to questions, you wanted to have a dick-measuring contest on the Internet. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:30:57 PM EDT
[#2]
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And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Always get a police report. Always. And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. Hey, when I was a cop I didn't even get paid. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:36:21 PM EDT
[#3]
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Xrays don't show damage to a disc What? Yes they do. Certain types anyways.... |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:37:00 PM EDT
[#4]
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Why don't you go back to the very first response you made to me, and make an honest assessment of who started the condescending snarkiness. Which you then continued even after I posted links to relevant Code sections. You didn't want answers to questions, you wanted to have a dick-measuring contest on the Internet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. Why don't you go back to the very first response you made to me, and make an honest assessment of who started the condescending snarkiness. Which you then continued even after I posted links to relevant Code sections. You didn't want answers to questions, you wanted to have a dick-measuring contest on the Internet. Fine, I'll give you one last chance. The Rules of Evidence is in conflict with the statute you linked to me. If you can explain how this works to me without accusing me of not being able to read (or of not understanding English), I'm interested in your response as someone who has experience in this area. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#5]
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For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The section linked me says the report can't be used as evidence in a criminal trial. So answer my question. Read it again, Sparky. Or find someone who can read, to read it to you. It applies to both civil and criminal trials. It's amazing how you can arrogantly and condescendingly avoid answering a simple fucking question. Stop acting like a d-bag. If you want to give legal advice over the internet and have a serious discussion about this, you'd be best to drop the attitude. Otherwise, GTFO. What question have I not answered? Police accident reports are not admissible as evidence in any criminal or civil trial in Virginia. Or in California. I posted citations to the relevant Code sections. Is there some other windmill that you'd like to tilt at, now? For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. That escalated quickly. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:40:25 PM EDT
[#6]
This is one of the few times it's acceptable to invite the man in your life, OP.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:43:28 PM EDT
[#7]
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And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Always get a police report. Always. And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. No, no we don't. Nice try at trolling though. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:44:12 PM EDT
[#8]
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I just learned the hard way the only way to win is to become what you hate. Play dirty, I promise you everyone else is. The time to start playing dirty was August 2014. With no treatment or documented injuries for over 3 months after the accident, there is almost no chance of a successful bodily injury settlement at this time. At this point he should be shooting for his own insurance company to pay some medical expenses. That might be the best he can do. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:44:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry for your luck OP. You need a lawyer. Things will move along at an accelerated pace. I was fortunate, the lawyer took the case for 10%, he swears it was just enough to cover his paralegal's time and paperwork and filing court documents. I didn't get rich, I didn't even get to put a kid through college, but I did get to replace my totaled vehicle, and my back, while not 100% perfect, is in better shape now than before the wreck. ETA: I did get a police report. The van that hit me hit another car before me, the driver of the other car had some kind of anxiety attack and had to be taken to the hospital, I should have went to the hospital, but had my three year old son, who was in the back seat but wasn't injured with me. When I talked to the lawyer, he asked me if I had any passengers in the vehicle and if they were injured, I told him my toddler son was with me, strapped in to a child seat in the back and not injured, I didn't know a lawyer could smile so wide as he did when I answered that question. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:47:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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Fine, I'll give you one last chance. The Rules of Evidence is in conflict with the statute you linked to me. If you can explain how this works to me without accusing me of not being able to read (or of not understanding English), I'm interested in your response as someone who has experience in this area. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. Why don't you go back to the very first response you made to me, and make an honest assessment of who started the condescending snarkiness. Which you then continued even after I posted links to relevant Code sections. You didn't want answers to questions, you wanted to have a dick-measuring contest on the Internet. Fine, I'll give you one last chance. The Rules of Evidence is in conflict with the statute you linked to me. If you can explain how this works to me without accusing me of not being able to read (or of not understanding English), I'm interested in your response as someone who has experience in this area. 1. Statute> Court Rule in general, and because more specific rules always trump general ones. Basic rules of construction. 2. It's not past recollection recorded as a hearsay exception, because the officer didn't witness anything firsthand. That exception requires that the person once had firsthand knowledge. 3. There is a ton of case law on this. The codified rules of evidence are actually a fairly new thing in VA (a couple years old). There's case law on this issue in your state, too. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:51:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Not even a question. Get a lawyer asap.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:52:05 PM EDT
[#12]
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1. Statute> Court Rule in general, and because more specific rules always trump general ones. Basic rules of construction. 2. It's not past recollection recorded as a hearsay exception, because the officer didn't witness anything firsthand. That exception requires that the person once had firsthand knowledge. 3. There is a ton of case law on this. The codified rules of evidence are actually a fairly new thing in VA (a couple years old). There's case law on this issue in your state, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For someone who conducts business on this site, you'd think you would treat your potential customers a little nicer. I'll go find someone a lot more polite and a little less full of himself to answer my questions. Nice chatting with you, Dave. Why don't you go back to the very first response you made to me, and make an honest assessment of who started the condescending snarkiness. Which you then continued even after I posted links to relevant Code sections. You didn't want answers to questions, you wanted to have a dick-measuring contest on the Internet. Fine, I'll give you one last chance. The Rules of Evidence is in conflict with the statute you linked to me. If you can explain how this works to me without accusing me of not being able to read (or of not understanding English), I'm interested in your response as someone who has experience in this area. 1. Statute> Court Rule in general, and because more specific rules always trump general ones. Basic rules of construction. 2. It's not past recollection recorded as a hearsay exception, because the officer didn't witness anything firsthand. That exception requires that the person once had firsthand knowledge. 3. There is a ton of case law on this. The codified rules of evidence are actually a fairly new thing in VA (a couple years old). There's case law on this issue in your state, too. How about witnesses statements taken at the scene of the accident? Are they excluded because they are submitted as part of the accident report, or are they admissible because they're recorded documents written by actual witnesses? |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:55:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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It happened in CA. Police were not called. At the time I didn't know I needed them to respond with all the pictures and video I took. A giant mistake on my part. Edit: I even have a witnes on file. A fellow motorist, not related to me or in my car. Call it a learning experience. Call the cops next time You can't change it now so don't fret over it. All you can control is what happens in the future so you need to right the ship asap. Getting an attorney is the only path from here. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:56:54 PM EDT
[#14]
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Police report will tell who was at fault...no police report ....it is like GD...pics or it didn't happen. You can litigate this all you want but if the police were not brought in you will be SOL. Completely false. It's a civil matter. He simply has to prove that his version of the events are more likely than not based upon a preponderance of the evidence. If he has an impartial witness, as he claims, he's light-years ahead. Cops are good for your case in court, they are by no stretch of imagination necessary. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:57:32 PM EDT
[#15]
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ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get a police report!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It happened in CA. Police were not called. At the time I didn't know I needed them to respond with all the pictures and video I took. A giant mistake on my part. Edit: I even have a witnes on file. A fellow motorist, not related to me or in my car. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get a police report!!! Good luck with that in Houston, or any major metropolis, for that matter. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 10:59:25 PM EDT
[#16]
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How about witnesses statements taken at the scene of the accident? Are they excluded because they are submitted as part of the accident report, or are they admissible because they're recorded documents written by actual witnesses? They'd be excluded because they're hearsay in any of those cases (whether written in the report - which is double hearsay - or written by the witness), assuming they're offered as evidence to prove some matter in the case and don't meet a hearsay exception. The witnesses can come and testify to things about which they have firsthand knowledge, and their written statements can be used to refresh their memories (past recollection recorded) if proper foundation is laid, or impeach them. But the statements themselves (generally speaking) are not admissible. At most, they could be read by the witness if proper foundation is laid. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:01:56 PM EDT
[#17]
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No, that isn't how police reports work. Sorry, but I'm guessing you aren't a cop who has been called into court to testify in civil cases regarding what you were told, as well as what you saw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lawyer No he's not. Also, police reports aren't gospel - they get things wrong quite frequently. They're not even admissible here, because they're pure hearsay and because the cop is just filling out what other people told him, and what he saw in the aftermath. No, that isn't how police reports work. Sorry, but I'm guessing you aren't a cop who has been called into court to testify in civil cases regarding what you were told, as well as what you saw. He's the one chasing the ambulance down the road. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:03:22 PM EDT
[#18]
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I guess it differs state to state. In Texas I would always get a police report unless it happened on private property like a parking lot. On a public roadway a police report goes a long way here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It happened in CA. Police were not called. At the time I didn't know I needed them to respond with all the pictures and video I took. A giant mistake on my part. Edit: I even have a witnes on file. A fellow motorist, not related to me or in my car. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get a police report!!! There are a lot of places that no longer send out the police for an accident unless it is blocking and/ or a report of medical aid needed. The vast majority of accidents have nothing to do with the police, it is more a matter of insurance companies wanting the police to do he work for them. This. There are now signs on the freeway in California that say "Involved in a minor accident? Pull off the freeway and exchange information". Basically, don't call us, deal with it amongst yourselves. I guess it differs state to state. In Texas I would always get a police report unless it happened on private property like a parking lot. On a public roadway a police report goes a long way here. You wouldn't get one in Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Dallas, Fort Worth, McAllen, Waco and a bunch of other cities. They won't even send a cruiser unless an ambulance is requested or a disabled vehicle is blocking traffic. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:05:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Call Joel the Hammer Stanley
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#20]
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They'd be excluded because they're hearsay in any of those cases (whether written in the report - which is double hearsay - or written by the witness), assuming they're offered as evidence to prove some matter in the case and don't meet a hearsay exception. The witnesses can come and testify to things about which they have firsthand knowledge, and their written statements can be used to refresh their memories (past recollection recorded) if proper foundation is laid, or impeach them. But the statements themselves (generally speaking) are not admissible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How about witnesses statements taken at the scene of the accident? Are they excluded because they are submitted as part of the accident report, or are they admissible because they're recorded documents written by actual witnesses? They'd be excluded because they're hearsay in any of those cases (whether written in the report - which is double hearsay - or written by the witness), assuming they're offered as evidence to prove some matter in the case and don't meet a hearsay exception. The witnesses can come and testify to things about which they have firsthand knowledge, and their written statements can be used to refresh their memories (past recollection recorded) if proper foundation is laid, or impeach them. But the statements themselves (generally speaking) are not admissible. Don't reports and statements serve the purpose of locking in the officers actions, scope of testimony and what he can testify to in the case of a report and locking witnesses into what they can testify to in court proceedings? While not admissible, they are or can be relevant in regards to any testimony that the officer or witness provides that would have a profound influence on the jury that was not previously disclosed in the report or statement and also not disclosed in depositions? |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:11:41 PM EDT
[#21]
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Don't reports and statements serve the purpose of locking in the officers actions scope of testimony and what he can testify to in the case of a report and locking witnesses into what they can testify to in court proceedings? While not admissible, they are or can be relevant in regards to any testimony that the officer or witness provides that would have a profound influence on the jury that was not previously disclosed in the report or statement and also not disclosed in depositions? Sure, I didn't say they were useless generally. They're just not admissible themselves. They can be used to impeach witnesses. The whole conversation started because some people here posted that the lack of an accident report was somehow a huge problem for an accident case. It's not. And in OP's case, he has much bigger issues. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:13:12 PM EDT
[#22]
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Lawyer up. Sue your insurance company. They will sue the other insurance companies in turn. Insurance companies are not there to insure anyone. They are there to make a profit. That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works! |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:16:37 PM EDT
[#23]
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No, no we don't. Nice try at trolling though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Always get a police report. Always. And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. No, no we don't. Nice try at trolling though. Well, I do.... |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:16:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Has anyone told you to lawyer up yet? Just in case no one has, lawyer up. There is a time limit, you're not there yet but any further delay is just stupid.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:38:29 PM EDT
[#25]
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Always get a police report. Always. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 11:45:00 PM EDT
[#26]
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How were they "used" in civil cases? "Used" is a very vague term. The reports aren't admissible ANYWHERE in the state, in ANY court, because the Code says so and because much of their contents would be hearsay in any event. This is really basic stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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An accident report is the result of an investigation by the reporting officer; the results of the investigation include a diagram based upon the officer's reconstruction of the accident. Physical evidence is used for this. Witness interviews may assist in the reconstruction of the accident. My accident reports were used in civil cases any number of times. Accidents involving death or serious injury were handled by the specialists who are experts in accident reconstruction. Where in Virginia do you practice that this information is not admissible? How were they "used" in civil cases? "Used" is a very vague term. The reports aren't admissible ANYWHERE in the state, in ANY court, because the Code says so and because much of their contents would be hearsay in any event. This is really basic stuff. True, used is a vague term: to be more specific I have been called to testify both in criminal and civil trials in which my reconstruction of an accident was used as evidence. The "report" in and of itself was not the evidence, my testimony and reconstruction was. I can tell you specifically of two judges in traffic court who used accident reports in their determination. For the most part that determination, absent egregious traffic violations, was "let the insurance companies sort it out". For purposes of this thread, police involvement would not make a difference for the OP |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 12:03:05 AM EDT
[#27]
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Xrays don't show damage to a disc They can indicate that there may be a disc problem. Spondylolisthesis and other issues can be seen. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 1:53:33 AM EDT
[#28]
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Well, I do.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Always get a police report. Always. And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. No, no we don't. Nice try at trolling though. Well, I do.... Apparently I caught something........ |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 3:28:43 AM EDT
[#29]
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And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Always get a police report. Always. And GD bitches about paying for cops.............. When people never see a cop except when they show up to write a ticket or see them/their boss show up at some meeting to bitch about resources, people can get resentful. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 4:18:53 AM EDT
[#30]
dbrowne1 is technically correct, but has not done a good job of explaining his position (a common affliction for professionals in his industry).
A police report itself it technically not evidence. But its contents are generally considered to contain accurate accounts of the testimonial evidence that would be offered by the various players if called to testify. And more importantly, they may as well be considered evidence, as they are usually the centerpiece of pretrial negotiations in criminal and civil matters. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 8:27:00 AM EDT
[#31]
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They're not even admissible here, because they're pure hearsay and because the cop is just filling out what other people told him, and what he saw in the aftermath. That's what all of my accident reports were. Nowhere in the report would it say who was at fault. It was usually just the conflicting stories of the people involved. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:12:03 AM EDT
[#32]
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It happened in CA. Police were not called. At the time I didn't know I needed them to respond with all the pictures and video I took. A giant mistake on my part. Edit: I even have a witnes on file. A fellow motorist, not related to me or in my car. 
Just curious, how old are you? |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:20:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Wow, life's tough, wear a helmet.
In the Grand scheme of figuring shit out, I feel this is something that every adult should be able to figure. ETA: lol at the get a police report and thinking it makes a difference. Especially if no Amberlamps were called. Unless they witnessed it, it ain't going to change anything. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:26:04 AM EDT
[#34]
If there is no police report, pepper your angus. ALWAYS get a police report in a crash, even if a fender bender. Otherwise, unless it was recorded on video, there is no proof of what happened. insurance companies wInd you at fault unless you can prove otherwise.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:48:23 AM EDT
[#35]
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If there is no police report, pepper your angus. ALWAYS get a police report in a crash, even if a fender bender. Otherwise, unless it was recorded on video, there is no proof of what happened. insurance companies wInd you at fault unless you can prove otherwise. First, it's not always possible to obtain a police report. Second, insurance companies don't simply "find you at fault" unless you can prove otherwise. If your assertion was true there's be no insurance payouts, ever, on any MVA with 2 or more drivers and no police report. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:50:30 AM EDT
[#36]
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If there is no police report, pepper your angus. ALWAYS get a police report in a crash, even if a fender bender. Otherwise, unless it was recorded on video, there is no proof of what happened. insurance companies wInd you at fault unless you can prove otherwise. 
No. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:50:57 AM EDT
[#37]
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First, it's not always possible to obtain a police report. Second, insurance companies don't simply "find you at fault" unless you can prove otherwise. If your assertion was true there's be no insurance payouts, ever, on any MVA with 2 or more drivers and no police report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If there is no police report, pepper your angus. ALWAYS get a police report in a crash, even if a fender bender. Otherwise, unless it was recorded on video, there is no proof of what happened. insurance companies wInd you at fault unless you can prove otherwise. First, it's not always possible to obtain a police report. Second, insurance companies don't simply "find you at fault" unless you can prove otherwise. If your assertion was true there's be no insurance payouts, ever, on any MVA with 2 or more drivers and no police report. They don't simply find you at fault, but you will be equally responsible resulting in your rates being jacked up. Get as much evidence as possible to but the responsibly soley on the at fault party. If no police report is possible, get pictures, witnesses, etc. I've been in this situation and had an insurance company that didn't give a shit about sticking up for its customers. YMMV |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 9:55:14 AM EDT
[#38]
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Lawyer This is the only answer. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:07:45 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote History
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:28:01 AM EDT
[#40]
OP,
As others have said, find a lawyer. You are going to sue the person who hit you and the person who hit them, not their insurance companies. Document everything, receipts for medical bills, car repairs, the money you are out for your deductible, everything. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:36:02 AM EDT
[#41]
So GD is always talking about don't call the cops into your life and cops are bad. Then there's a crash with no apparent injuries on scene and you all scream "call the police!!!!" Unless the vehicles are disabled or you need a squad there at the scene, don't call police.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:39:38 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote Historyfucking FPNI. at 4:57 pm yesterday I got a call from a friend who was in an accident. I picked him up from the chevy dealer where the car was towed to. by 6pm I had my lawyers cell number in his hand and by 7:42 my lawyer had some one on it. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#43]
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So GD is always talking about don't call the cops into your life and cops are bad. Then there's a crash with no apparent injuries on scene and you all scream "call the police!!!!" Unless the vehicles are disabled or you need a squad there at the scene, don't call police. Generally speaking if you are in no way at fault for the accident then you should call the police and get a report done. If you are at fault, you don't want the police there. Also police generally do not involve themselves with accidents that occur on private property such as parking lots, unless there is an injury or a hit and run type deal. I have encountered many accidents where the at fault party denies it ever occurred. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 10:51:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Where in California? If it is in the Los Angeles area, I have a good attorney you can call.
This exact thing happened to me. After getting the run-around from my insurance, both of their insurances and my health insurance (because they wanted to be reimbursed for the expenses), I got an attorney and everyone fell into line. Let me know. Eric  |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:03:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Larry H Parker.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:48:26 AM EDT
[#46]
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That's what all of my accident reports were. Nowhere in the report would it say who was at fault. It was usually just the conflicting stories of the people involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're not even admissible here, because they're pure hearsay and because the cop is just filling out what other people told him, and what he saw in the aftermath. That's what all of my accident reports were. Nowhere in the report would it say who was at fault. It was usually just the conflicting stories of the people involved. We're required to lay blame on one party. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:51:25 AM EDT
[#47]
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should have contacted a competent accident injury lawyer in august of 2014, probably still can This. I've been dicked around by insurance companies before - retain an attorney who specializes in this type of work. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Left lane camper spiking his brakes?
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Posted: 1/30/2015 12:00:02 PM EDT
[#49]
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We're required to lay blame on one party. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're not even admissible here, because they're pure hearsay and because the cop is just filling out what other people told him, and what he saw in the aftermath. That's what all of my accident reports were. Nowhere in the report would it say who was at fault. It was usually just the conflicting stories of the people involved. We're required to lay blame on one party. If I'm not trained in accident investigation I'm not putting anyone at fault on the report. Let the insurance company figure it out. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 12:01:57 PM EDT
[#50]
You really do need a lawyer these days. Suck it up, its worth it.
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