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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#1]
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That was a popular idea up until the 1980's or so, when it became clear from more refined study of distant galactic redshifts, that the Universe wasn't ever going to slow down. And now that they can see that dark energy is actually accelerating the expansion, not a chance. So not only once all the stars and Hydrogen are used up, and black holes have nothing to "eat", and the Universe suffers the "heat death" of cold and darkness, with increasingly less frequent neutron star and black hole collisions, and then the black holes evaporating through Hawking Radiation after hundreds of billions of years, the remaining atoms and photons themselves will get ripped apart into an almost, but just barely non-zero amount of energy because space/time itself is expanding faster and faster. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What about the possibility that the universe has formed countless times and experienced the big crunch countless times until now? That was a popular idea up until the 1980's or so, when it became clear from more refined study of distant galactic redshifts, that the Universe wasn't ever going to slow down. And now that they can see that dark energy is actually accelerating the expansion, not a chance. So not only once all the stars and Hydrogen are used up, and black holes have nothing to "eat", and the Universe suffers the "heat death" of cold and darkness, with increasingly less frequent neutron star and black hole collisions, and then the black holes evaporating through Hawking Radiation after hundreds of billions of years, the remaining atoms and photons themselves will get ripped apart into an almost, but just barely non-zero amount of energy because space/time itself is expanding faster and faster. Redshift is bullshit ... photons just get tired, after traveling all that way. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#2]
I was using this argument as a substitute for the classical multiverse. instead of countless failed universes existing at once perhaps it happened countless times until the present universe happened with the current physical laws.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:09:10 PM EDT
[#3]
I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:15:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Huh? That made my head hurt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now you can't claim free will and still have him all knowing. Just because He is able to know what we are going to choose does not pre-ordain that we choose it. Huh? That made my head hurt. Like I said, it makes more sense if you keep in your mind you're talking about a being that does not exist inside, or as part of, time as we perceive it. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:18:18 PM EDT
[#5]
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I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:21:27 PM EDT
[#6]
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God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. That's your belief. He was stating his belief. Mine as well, though I don't believe the universe was created that firmly, I just accept it as a possibility. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:22:36 PM EDT
[#7]
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I understand red shift and the Doppler effect. What I was trying to ask is, if the universe were slowing down, wouldn't looking into the distant past see it expanding at a faster rate then as compared to now?  Please take into account that I am a lay person and a little dense.
http://www.spaceanswers.com/deep-space/expansion-of-the-universe/ This can teach it better than I can via forum posts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Believe in a god all you want but if someone believes the bible got it right then they are not reading the bible. It is not the answer so keep looking for a better book to worship. I tried and there is not one book that has all the answers and there never will be. By using the scientific process we are slowly figuring out how it all fits together. I am perfectly fine with a finite life and not having the answers. I am not fine with not looking for the answers through logical processes that science has taught us. As of now based on the direct observation using various experiments such as WMAP and COBE we have see evidence that supports the big bang theory and the age of the universe. Edwin Hubble discovered red shift and the expanding universe that expands faster the father out we look. These experiments support the Big Bang. If we learn more in the future that changes what we know, GREAT!!!! I effing LOVE science and astronomy, it speaks the truth to all of us by being self correctly and open to critical review. Religion does not do this and never has. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSRI9Nq-WjM-ZcF9J07EEOfV8vdDrs51ClveTVNjMds6RDirmQLA I subscribe to the big bang, it is to me the most plausible explanation. I know I don't understand a lot of the physics. When we look out to the furthest edge of the observable universe we are seeing back in time 13 billion years, within a few hundred thousand years of the big bang itself. If the expansion were slowing, over time, wouldn't we expect the further into the past we looked the galaxies would be moving away faster? Yep, Hubble's discovery was contrary to the expected slowing of the expansion of the universe due to gravity. We don't know exactly why the universe is expanding at an accelerated pace. We have discovered dark matter and dark energy and currently we use their existence at the causal factor. We can infer their existence from the gravitational impacts they cause when viewing distant galaxies. Dark matter causes twists and bubbles in space which warps the light and energy those distant galaxies emit. We have observed these effects with the HST. There are experiments going on right now that are trying to better understand the effects of dark energy, we just don't know exactly what is going on with it but we are trying to learn. Hubble found through direct spectral observation that the farther galaxies he observed where shifted toward the color red, known as red shift. Because of the finite speed of light the faster things go away from you the more the light they emit turns toward the red color. The wave length changes and stretches out. Eventually you get past visible light and end up in wave lengths that the satalites and experiments I mentioned detect. If you put your car radio on AM and between stations you hear static, about 1 % of that noise is the Big Bang. The farther you get from civilization then the 1% goes up. I understand red shift and the Doppler effect. What I was trying to ask is, if the universe were slowing down, wouldn't looking into the distant past see it expanding at a faster rate then as compared to now? Please take into account that I am a lay person and a little dense.
http://www.spaceanswers.com/deep-space/expansion-of-the-universe/ This can teach it better than I can via forum posts. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:26:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Why couldn't the big bang be God creating the universe?
Side note, Back in college I took an Astro-physics class taught by a retired multi Phd Nuclear physicist, and probably one of the smartest people I have ever met. One thing that will always stick with me is what he said on the first day of that class. He made a comment on how lots of scientists and professors will like to bash the existence of God, but he was only here to talk about the things we do know, how the universe rapidly came into existence and is still expanding today. He then said if you would like to believe the big bang created everything, or if choose to believe God made that happen, science currently cannot prove either to be false. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:29:07 PM EDT
[#9]
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Hey guys which of these two unprovable options makes you feel better? POLL INBOUND! LMAO exactly |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:31:08 PM EDT
[#10]
If there is a God, then he created the observable laws of nature so the answer is either "The Scientific Explanation or Both". There is no "God Only" option unless you believe that God is deliberately putting on a light show to deceive us. I don't see why an all powerful being would need to do that.
If God is almighty, then why not just kick off all existence with a specific set of natural laws knowing full well how it will unfold? That would quite frankly be the most divine act of omnipotence that my human brain could possibly conceive. So unless someone wants to make the argument that God is a trickster with great but still limited power, I'm sticking with the idea that God is the "who" and the "why" and Science is the "how". |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 2:34:09 PM EDT
[#11]
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Big Bang and God are both bullshit. Pretty much one in the same. Everything was created from nothing? Yeah fucking right. That's not really how the Big Bang theory works. It appears you do not have enough information to decide yet. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:08:18 PM EDT
[#12]
I never have understood how this is so hard. There was nothing and then poof, God said make it so and it was.
God has to be the ultimate scientist since he made so much neat shit. Look at a tree some time. If you're a reasonably intelligent person you probably know how its entire life cycle works, how it grows reproduces and how it grows. Now, go make one. From scratch. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:18:07 PM EDT
[#13]
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I was using this argument as a substitute for the classical multiverse. instead of countless failed universes existing at once perhaps it happened countless times until the present universe happened with the current physical laws. Gee! .......... Do you mean it (sort of) evolved? |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never have understood how this is so hard. There was nothing and then poof, God said make it so and it was. God has to be the ultimate scientist since he made so much neat shit. Look at a tree some time. If you're a reasonably intelligent person you probably know how its entire life cycle works, how it grows reproduces and how it grows. Now, go make one. From scratch. The "golly gee whiz that's neat" theory. The problem is, 100 years ago most everything you have in your possession now, including computers who rely on near-quantum mechanics to function, was the domain of "golly gee whiz" and beyond human know-how. We aren't quite at the "make a living being from nothing" stage in human development, but we're not far off considering that just in your lifetime we've cracked the genetic code. I'm not trying to be insulting, but that's really a childish way to rationalize the divine, especially through the lens of mankind's incredible advances in knowledge, know-how, and science.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:31:38 PM EDT
[#15]
The Big Bang seems to be as plausible as any other theory regarding the creation of the universe.
What caused the Big Bang? Unicorns and fairies weren't around yet. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:38:05 PM EDT
[#16]
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The Big Bang seems to be as plausible as any other theory regarding the creation of the universe. What caused the Big Bang? Unicorns and fairies weren't around yet. Prove it. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:41:12 PM EDT
[#17]
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Prove it.
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The Big Bang seems to be as plausible as any other theory regarding the creation of the universe. What caused the Big Bang? Unicorns and fairies weren't around yet. Prove it.
Good point |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:50:13 PM EDT
[#18]
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So you believe that none of us are here but you never thought of that before? How odd. ETA::I realize you missed the point of my reply. The point of my reply was to show the hypocricy of using special pleading "Something can't come from nothing, escept this special thing that I going to make up and pretend can come from nothing." That is what god, when used in this context, is. It is not compelling, it is not reasonable, it is just a logically fallacy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For those who don't believe in God, how can something be made out of nothing? It's scientifically impossible. So none of us are here? mindblown.gif Gee mr. scientist I never thought of that. How odd. ETA::I realize you missed the point of my reply. The point of my reply was to show the hypocricy of using special pleading "Something can't come from nothing, escept this special thing that I going to make up and pretend can come from nothing." That is what god, when used in this context, is. It is not compelling, it is not reasonable, it is just a logically fallacy. My point is that you consistently act like people who believe in God are small minded and have never contemplated the vastness of the universe or odd defying nature of our exsistence. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:53:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Given that the universe is infinite both small and large one could theroize that we may have been created by a mischievous child setting off a fire cracker( Big Bang)
We will never know, but that mischievous child would represent God |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:56:26 PM EDT
[#20]
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The two are not mutually exclusive. Absolutely amazes me how many so called "educated" people can't grasp this concept. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 3:57:30 PM EDT
[#21]
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Gee! .......... Do you mean it (sort of) evolved? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was using this argument as a substitute for the classical multiverse. instead of countless failed universes existing at once perhaps it happened countless times until the present universe happened with the current physical laws. Gee! .......... Do you mean it (sort of) evolved? I tend to think so. It seems the natural progression of, well, nature. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#22]
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Like I said, it makes more sense if you keep in your mind you're talking about a being that does not exist inside, or as part of, time as we perceive it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now you can't claim free will and still have him all knowing. Just because He is able to know what we are going to choose does not pre-ordain that we choose it. Huh? That made my head hurt. Like I said, it makes more sense if you keep in your mind you're talking about a being that does not exist inside, or as part of, time as we perceive it. Now my head hurts even more. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:11:17 PM EDT
[#23]
God did it by creating a Big Bang. Why do people think these two concepts are mutually exclusive?
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:13:45 PM EDT
[#24]
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Only if you ignore the last several hundred years of philosophy.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Believe in a god all you want but if someone believes the bible got it right then they are not reading the bible. It is not the answer so keep looking for a better book to worship. I tried and there is not one book that has all the answers and there never will be. By using the scientific process we are slowly figuring out how it all fits together. I am perfectly fine with a finite life and not having the answers. I am not fine with not looking for the answers through logical processes that science has taught us. As of now based on the direct observation using various experiments such as WMAP and COBE we have see evidence that supports the big bang theory and the age of the universe. Edwin Hubble discovered red shift and the expanding universe that expands faster the father out we look. These experiments support the Big Bang. If we learn more in the future that changes what we know, GREAT!!!! I effing LOVE science and astronomy, it speaks the truth to all of us by being self correctly and open to critical review. Religion does not do this and never has. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSRI9Nq-WjM-ZcF9J07EEOfV8vdDrs51ClveTVNjMds6RDirmQLA http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/high_five_stephen_colbert.gif Great post. Oh you poor thing.. 
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:17:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, but they are a human mechanism by which we APPLY science to seek answers. Science itself does not need assumptions. In fact, they slow it down...because they can predispose a person into trying to fit the evidence to an assumption. Science does have assumptions. They tend to be fairly narrow but they are there. Science assumes that phenomena is caused by observable, testable, natural forces. Science also tends to assume that the laws of physics are fairly constant (with certain exceptions such as the Big Bang), so that gravity will work the same way in the Andromeda galaxy as our own, or that sedimentation rates are constant so you can date the fossil in the rock. It is this narrow set of assumptions that makes science both powerful and limited as a form of human understanding. Science tends to offer a certain degree of comfort in its conclusions (you cannot say certainty in the strictest sense, as the postmodernists point out). But science is limited to what one small species on one obscure rock in the Milky Way galaxy can observe. That is surely a small part of the potential knowledge out there. But more specifically, because science assumes that natural forces are the cause of observable events, science cannot conceptually approach the question of God. Using science to determine the question of God is like using a hammer to play the piano. It just doesn't work. If you choose to believe that only the observable, verifiable things are real, that is not science but logical positivism, which is a philosophy and must be justified on philosophical grounds. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:23:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh you poor thing..  |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:34:15 PM EDT
[#27]
I couldn't possibly care less. It matters not a whit.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:40:22 PM EDT
[#28]
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Science does have assumptions. They tend to be fairly narrow but they are there. Science assumes that phenomena is caused by observable, testable, natural forces. Science also tends to assume that the laws of physics are fairly constant (with certain exceptions such as the Big Bang), so that gravity will work the same way in the Andromeda galaxy as our own, or that sedimentation rates are constant so you can date the fossil in the rock. It is this narrow set of assumptions that makes science both powerful and limited as a form of human understanding. Science tends to offer a certain degree of comfort in its conclusions (you cannot say certainty in the strictest sense, as the postmodernists point out). But science is limited to what one small species on one obscure rock in the Milky Way galaxy can observe. That is surely a small part of the potential knowledge out there. But more specifically, because science assumes that natural forces are the cause of observable events, science cannot conceptually approach the question of God. Using science to determine the question of God is like using a hammer to play the piano. It just doesn't work. If you choose to believe that only the observable, verifiable things are real, that is not science but logical positivism, which is a philosophy and must be justified on philosophical grounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, but they are a human mechanism by which we APPLY science to seek answers. Science itself does not need assumptions. In fact, they slow it down...because they can predispose a person into trying to fit the evidence to an assumption. Science does have assumptions. They tend to be fairly narrow but they are there. Science assumes that phenomena is caused by observable, testable, natural forces. Science also tends to assume that the laws of physics are fairly constant (with certain exceptions such as the Big Bang), so that gravity will work the same way in the Andromeda galaxy as our own, or that sedimentation rates are constant so you can date the fossil in the rock. It is this narrow set of assumptions that makes science both powerful and limited as a form of human understanding. Science tends to offer a certain degree of comfort in its conclusions (you cannot say certainty in the strictest sense, as the postmodernists point out). But science is limited to what one small species on one obscure rock in the Milky Way galaxy can observe. That is surely a small part of the potential knowledge out there. But more specifically, because science assumes that natural forces are the cause of observable events, science cannot conceptually approach the question of God. Using science to determine the question of God is like using a hammer to play the piano. It just doesn't work. If you choose to believe that only the observable, verifiable things are real, that is not science but logical positivism, which is a philosophy and must be justified on philosophical grounds. However assuming there are phenomena outside the constraints of the physical laws of the universe are consistent, runs a risk of making it's own assumption, that "God" is capricious, lies, or is a rather "seat of the pants" deity. From my point of view, it's more an issue of if there are no constants one can work from, there's no point in trying. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 4:53:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, but they are a human mechanism by which we APPLY science to seek answers. Science itself does not need assumptions. In fact, they slow it down...because they can predispose a person into trying to fit the evidence to an assumption. Science does have assumptions. They tend to be fairly narrow but they are there. Science assumes that phenomena is caused by observable, testable, natural forces. Science also tends to assume that the laws of physics are fairly constant (with certain exceptions such as the Big Bang), so that gravity will work the same way in the Andromeda galaxy as our own, or that sedimentation rates are constant so you can date the fossil in the rock. It is this narrow set of assumptions that makes science both powerful and limited as a form of human understanding. Science tends to offer a certain degree of comfort in its conclusions (you cannot say certainty in the strictest sense, as the postmodernists point out). But science is limited to what one small species on one obscure rock in the Milky Way galaxy can observe. That is surely a small part of the potential knowledge out there. But more specifically, because science assumes that natural forces are the cause of observable events, science cannot conceptually approach the question of God. Using science to determine the question of God is like using a hammer to play the piano. It just doesn't work. If you choose to believe that only the observable, verifiable things are real, that is not science but logical positivism, which is a philosophy and must be justified on philosophical grounds. You keep saying science assumes that natural forces are the cause of all events, but saying it twice isn't convincing. Saying science assumes constants is not entirely true. A person may assume these things, but science is more flexible than that, which is why quantum mechanics, sometimes mysterious and unpredictable, are studied and accepted as a part of the natural universe. When observation shifts outcome, goodbye constants. But, back to assuming nature thus we can't find God.... A. That only holds up if god is supernatural, perhaps he's as natural as dark matter, elusive and powerful but not supernatural. In which case our concept of a god may be in error. Or, such a God as awesome and omnipotent as something can be, may someday be understood or observed in a way that provides human beings a real, tangible evidence of his machinations. My "pokes his face through the cloud and says Hey it's Me!!!!" example is crude, but serves this as an example. B: It is a HUMAN concept that assumes nature behind all curtains, science itself is just the mechanism by which observation, evidence and theories are collected, present themselves and are honed again and again...it's never set, it's never completely settled. That's the beauty of it all. Talk about people, since it's clear you think people have the bias assuming a natural origin of everything, because people aren't science. And, even among scientists, there have been some who assumed God was at play, and sought that in their research (which, some might argue is bad science, but is an assumptive endeavor none the less in favor of the supernatural).
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Posted: 1/29/2015 5:00:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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Yes, I am poor. Fucking Obama economy.
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Oh you poor thing..
Nice. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 5:20:50 PM EDT
[#31]
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Why couldn't the big bang be God creating the universe?... It could be. Show us your evidence. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 5:32:35 PM EDT
[#32]
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I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. There must be a hell of a big rubber band hidden somewhere. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:07:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point is that you consistently act like people who believe in God are small minded and have never contemplated the vastness of the universe or odd defying nature of our exsistence. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So none of us are here? mindblown.gif Gee mr. scientist I never thought of that. How odd. ETA::I realize you missed the point of my reply. The point of my reply was to show the hypocricy of using special pleading "Something can't come from nothing, escept this special thing that I going to make up and pretend can come from nothing." That is what god, when used in this context, is. It is not compelling, it is not reasonable, it is just a logically fallacy. My point is that you consistently act like people who believe in God are small minded and have never contemplated the vastness of the universe or odd defying nature of our exsistence. There is no such thing that anyone has ever demonstrated. Please cite your statement, as I suspect it is just going to be a repackaging of the same old long debunked logical fallacies and misunderstandings of the universe, physics, and statistics. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:20:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:22:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:28:51 PM EDT
[#36]
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I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately.... Please elaborate. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:35:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. He works wonder for people. He does answer prayers. My point was he doesn't always answer prayers for people that want things for themselves (money, material things) without giving theirselves to him. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:36:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. I'm almost positive that every single religious Jew thrown into the gas chambers spent their last moments in the most deep, profound prayer you could ever imagine to live and have their loved ones spared, and probably as earnest as anyone who's prayed....to the same God you pray to. MILLIONS of human beings. Throughout history? Probably billions. It's awful hard to believe that he answers prayers to some people, because what they asked for got answered, while others suffer horrendously or die in the face of their prayers. Your testimony, as earnest it may be, does not make me think anything is real. A god is in serious question, and I've been listening and open to seeing or hearing to the contrary my entire life. So far, nothing. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:39:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm almost positive that every single religious Jew thrown into the gas chambers spent their last moments in the most deep, profound prayer you could ever imagine to live and have their loved ones spared, and probably as earnest as anyone who's prayed....to the same God you pray to. MILLIONS of human beings. Throughout history? Probably billions. It's awful hard to believe that he answers prayers to some people, because what they asked for got answered, while others suffer horrendously or die in the face of their prayers. Your testimony, as earnest it may be, does not make me think anything is real. A god is in serious question, and I've been listening and open to seeing or hearing to the contrary my entire life. So far, nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. I'm almost positive that every single religious Jew thrown into the gas chambers spent their last moments in the most deep, profound prayer you could ever imagine to live and have their loved ones spared, and probably as earnest as anyone who's prayed....to the same God you pray to. MILLIONS of human beings. Throughout history? Probably billions. It's awful hard to believe that he answers prayers to some people, because what they asked for got answered, while others suffer horrendously or die in the face of their prayers. Your testimony, as earnest it may be, does not make me think anything is real. A god is in serious question, and I've been listening and open to seeing or hearing to the contrary my entire life. So far, nothing. All you have to do is look at tornado alley. I guess some people pray better than others. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:48:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All you have to do is look at tornado alley. I guess some people pray better than others. People in trailers don't pray worth a shit, apparently. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:48:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I believe a God created the big bang. He wound it up and let the creation spin. I don't believe a God answers prayers and or gives special favor to individual lives. God answers prayers but not to appease a particular individual but to show his love and grace for us. I've witnessed miracles. Had prayer answered immediately. God exists. There is no question. He's there and if you seek Him you will find Him. It's all real. Don't you suppose most of the people that suffered the holocaust prayed for help from their loving father? What was his answer.......crickets. "God exists. " I question it. What would make a person believe that God would have to kill his own son to forgive people hundreds of generations removed from Eve, because she ate some fruit? Just because a person prays for some divine intervention to solve some problem and the problem is resolved doesn't exactly mean it was divine intervention. Let us go back to the holocaust, millions prayed, how many pleas to God were answered? 12 million deaths by the most horrible means. If this is God's love wow. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:51:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It never really gets old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh, is this the weekly "rabid atheists vs religious zealots" slug-fest thread? I'll be back in a second, need to go grab some popcorn. It never really gets old. TPNI |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 6:59:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Stupid poll. God does not work apart for science. He can bend science as well.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:00:34 PM EDT
[#44]
God wanted it and BANG! It happened.
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:00:57 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm almost positive that every single religious Jew thrown into the gas chambers spent their last moments in the most deep, profound prayer you could ever imagine to live and have their loved ones spared, and probably as earnest as anyone who's prayed....to the same God you pray to. MILLIONS of human beings. Throughout history? Probably billions.... Well, there is that. But on the other hand, He helps Tim Tebow win football games. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:01:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stupid poll. God does not work apart for science. He can bend science as well. Got any examples? |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:05:03 PM EDT
[#47]
If you're into turtle arguments, the simulation argument is, mathematically, rather more likely than magic.
Plus praying to the Lords of the Matrix sounds cooler than praying to Acme Agricultural Norm Incentive #23. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:11:15 PM EDT
[#48]
My testimony is dicounted by you before I've even told you about it.
I should be dead several times over. He saved me. Why you might ask, I'm not really sure but I believe in my heart that He loves me and had mercy on me. I don't understand the mind of God. Ill keep it short. I was hit by a car, thrown about 15-20 ft through the air, on the interstate, my body crushed in another vehicle like I was in a Superman movie. When I landed on the ground I immediately called out to God to save me from harm. I got up and suffered not a scratch or a bruise. There is more to the story but that's the abbreviated version. |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:29:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My testimony is dicounted by you before I've even told you about it. I should be dead several times over. He saved me. Why you might ask, I'm not really sure but I believe in my heart that He loves me and had mercy on me. I don't understand the mind of God. Ill keep it short. I was hit by a car, thrown about 15-20 ft through the air, on the interstate, my body crushed in another vehicle like I was in a Superman movie. When I landed on the ground I immediately called out to God to save me from harm. I got up and suffered not a scratch or a bruise. There is more to the story but that's the abbreviated version. Cite? |
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Posted: 1/29/2015 7:35:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My testimony is dicounted by you before I've even told you about it. I should be dead several times over. He saved me. Why you might ask, I'm not really sure but I believe in my heart that He loves me and had mercy on me. I don't understand the mind of God. Ill keep it short. I was hit by a car, thrown about 15-20 ft through the air, on the interstate, my body crushed in another vehicle like I was in a Superman movie. When I landed on the ground I immediately called out to God to save me from harm. I got up and suffered not a scratch or a bruise. There is more to the story but that's the abbreviated version. Why did he hit you with a car in the first place? |
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