3rd Update - Pg 38 - LaRue's response to NutNFancy's "LaRue Sucks" video - Page 32

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 3rd Update - Pg 38 - LaRue's response to NutNFancy's "LaRue Sucks" video (Page 32 of 42)

Posted: 1/27/2015 3:32:31 PM EDT

[#1]

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Did anyone happen to save the now-deleted 250 comments ?

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http://i.imgur.com/PbEnvcR.png

Covering your tracks... Always the deeds of righteous people.

works great when you post a hour long video that everyone already has saved on their hard drives

Did anyone happen to save the now-deleted 250 comments ?

nothing ever gets deleted. a supeona to youtube will likely recover them

Posted: 1/27/2015 3:33:52 PM EDT

[#2]

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Exactly. My point was that the gas port could be correct for most ammo in most areas/weather in the lower 48, but maybe not with the ammo he wanted to run through it, where he lived, and in that weather. The cold and altitude brings new issues into the formula, yes? If the Stealth wasn't built and tested to run steel .223 pressure ammo in the snowy mountains of "wherever Nutn' lives" (is it Alaska? Where is he?), then I fail to see how Larue "failed" to fix or address his cycling problems. Did Nutn' tell them his altitude, temperature, and what ammo he was trying to use?

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Did anyone happen to save the now-deleted 250 comments ?

It might be wise to have your lawyers send NF a preservation letter.

I'd actually be more put off by Larue suing, even if there is standing to do so. There's no need for Mark Larue to put himself in the same company as Ron Smith, Dick Swan, or the guys from Tactical Rifles.

Simply put, if the gas port was well within spec for what a 20" rifle should have, then it was Nutn's goof for selecting a precision type upper and expecting it to operate like an AK. It's the 87 octane gas in a Porsche 911 that needs premium to perform. Mix adverse weather and environment, some low power ammo, and maybe even questional lubrication, and you are going to have an upper that doesn't meet your "operational criteria", whatever it is that Nutn' thinks his are

. He bought a Subaru rallycar when he really wants a pickup. Heck, if opening the gas hole is his solution because he's in the small percent of people that want to use a Stealth in some really rough conditions, fine. But I wouldn't say that's a design or manufacturing failure on Larue's part. If Nutn' wants a precision upper that will work in ice, mud, mountains, whatever, perhaps he should have considered that in the first place and looked elsewhere. But his disparaging comments that it was a 100% QC error on Larue's side are disingenuous IMO.

Where does Nutn' live/shoot? Is the environment and altitude there not a factor when mixed with low power ammo? How about factory match rounds?

Nutn goes on to say LaRue should have checked the gas port.... then goes to to say he measured it and it looked right....

Exactly. My point was that the gas port could be correct for most ammo in most areas/weather in the lower 48, but maybe not with the ammo he wanted to run through it, where he lived, and in that weather. The cold and altitude brings new issues into the formula, yes? If the Stealth wasn't built and tested to run steel .223 pressure ammo in the snowy mountains of "wherever Nutn' lives" (is it Alaska? Where is he?), then I fail to see how Larue "failed" to fix or address his cycling problems. Did Nutn' tell them his altitude, temperature, and what ammo he was trying to use?

True, but that's beside the point. NF took a perfectly good upper that we know he had from 2008 to 2010 and was in working order, bubba'd it by disassembling it, painting it, and putting on other manufacturer's parts, sent it back, had it fixed, bubba'd it a second time, then erroneously faulted the manufacturer. Ammo has nothing to do with it. Based alone on how he used a hammer and punch to remove a Glock baseplate in a vise, it is obvious ammo choice has little to do with it and is more attributable to his hack job garage gun smithing.

If I were ML, I would vigorously defend my products and reputation as well. True, NF is a kook, but unfortunately, hundreds of thousands listen to him. I don't see it as just defending himself, he is defending products I own. Thanks ML for a quality product backed by a quality warranty and for having the integrity to stand up and defend both.

Posted: 1/27/2015 3:41:36 PM EDT

[#3]

I do but it will cost you an 18" OBR to get them

Posted: 1/27/2015 3:44:45 PM EDT

[#4]

woops. did not mean to post.

Posted: 1/27/2015 3:48:32 PM EDT

[#5]

A sojourn of failure & redemption of a LaRue upper, latest vid used video from 6 yrs of testing, from 6 hard drives!

David Perez ?@DPerez812 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy enjoyed the up and downs of the review. Keep up the good work!

Todd Strelka ?@toddstrelka Jan 25
@Nutnfancy great honest review. Thanks for the hard work and the truth.

Chops688 ?@chops688 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy Thanks for all the hard work & enduring frustration on this one. Proves we can't just assume any companies products are all good

Colby Park ?@colbyprk Jan 25
@Nutnfancy fantastic stuff mate!

ANTHONY ?@TheOfficialAW Jan 25
@Nutnfancy "duracoating an upper throws off the harmonics and molecular integrity causing it to jam" - Fanboy

Douglas ?@Dmichael14 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy how did they redeem themselves when you fixed the problem

Philip R ?@ihavehotmail2 16h16 hours ago
@Nutnfancy - good call on the rock river r3 as an alternative, I went that route after watching the RRA entry tac review and SPR build -100%

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Posted: 1/27/2015 4:01:54 PM EDT

[#6]

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There's more.

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I got a topic doesn't exist

So I got banned from ARf.com
Post by Die-Tryin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:38 am

LoL..apparently they need to change their motto to "Be an individual, just like us", cuz if you go against the grain there, they get sand in their maginas. :ham'r

Re: So I got banned from ARf.com
Post by Die-Tryin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:13 pm

No it was in the Laboob (larue) camp..There was a discussion about all the FREE stuff you get when you order their over priced AR components. I simply said that Free isnt Free and that Promo items are calculated into the product cost and the over all business expense. I said that Id rather they keep their free stuff and lower cost. But i understand the promo stuff is under advertisement budget, etc. But apparently this went over like a lead balloon and the laboob pack wanted to say that this isnt how businesses are run, that the owner gives the free stuff out of his pocket. lol. I explained that this isnt how business' run and they failed Econo 101..and then it just got ugly from there. lol.

Re: So I got banned from ARf.com
Post by Die-Tryin » Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:40 pm

echo6 wrote:
The survival forum wont be the same without you and your mad cow avatar.

Thanks..I appreciate it.

My own fault for being baited like that. Ill be honest, I play it on shear boredom, I ventured into that arena and shouldve known better. That was the biggest abortion Ive ever seen, the icing was the thread theyve got going about me and some ppl had to get his punches in. I guess it goes to show money dont buy class. lol

There's more.

Not just that forum either, I'm to lazy to search but either CK5 or Pirate a few years ago.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:02:43 PM EDT

[#7]

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[url=https://twitter.com/Nutnfancy/status/559522161929375744]A sojourn of failure & redemption of a LaRue upper, latest vid used video from 6 yrs of testing, from 6 hard drives! [/url]

David Perez ?@DPerez812 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy enjoyed the up and downs of the review. Keep up the good work!

Todd Strelka ?@toddstrelka Jan 25
@Nutnfancy great honest review. Thanks for the hard work and the truth.

Chops688 ?@chops688 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy Thanks for all the hard work & enduring frustration on this one. Proves we can't just assume any companies products are all good

Colby Park ?@colbyprk Jan 25
@Nutnfancy fantastic stuff mate!

ANTHONY ?@TheOfficialAW Jan 25
@Nutnfancy "duracoating an upper throws off the harmonics and molecular integrity causing it to jam" - Fanboy

Douglas ?@Dmichael14 Jan 25
@Nutnfancy how did they redeem themselves when you fixed the problem

Philip R ?@ihavehotmail2 16h16 hours ago
@Nutnfancy - good call on the rock river r3 as an alternative, I went that route after watching the RRA entry tac review and SPR build -100%

He seems to want to help in the "discovery" process doesn't he?

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:04:20 PM EDT

[#8]

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True, bud that's beside the point. NF took a perfectly good upper that we know he had from 2008 to 2010 and was in working order, bubba'd it by disassembling it, painting it, and putting on other manufacturer's parts, sent it back, had it fixed, bubba'd it a second time, then erroneously faulted the manufacturer. Ammo has nothing to do with it. Based alone on how he used a hammer and punch to remove a Glock baseplate in a vise, it is obvious ammo choice has little to do with it and is more attributable to his hack job garage gun smithing.

If I were ML, I would vigorously defend my products and reputation as well. True, NF is a kook, but unfortunately, hundreds of thousands listen to him. I don't see it as just defending himself, he is defending products I own. Thanks ML for a quality product backed by a quality warranty and for having the integrity to stand up and defend both.

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I wouldn't count that out just yet. If NF were running 100% Federal XM193, MH Mk262, FGMM, etc, then it would lend a lot more credibility to his claims the barrel was undergassed. All his monkeying aside, his video did show it having cycling issues even it what appeared to be a "factory" config, ie no PRI FSB or Troy rails. Like I said before, lower powered ammo may have exacerbated the issue. Even if his PRI FSB were a little bit too close to the shoulder, the opening should have allowed enough gas. But if it was indeed obscuring the port, maybe it would have been fine with XM193, but with steel or PMC bronce, it wasn't.

I am not defending him, absolutely not. I think the gas port was perfectly fine for most situations, NF just happens to be running in that small % that is introduced by his environment and selected ammo. I wouldn't expect my Mk12 to operate the same way as my old BCM 16" M4 upper. That upper is designed to eat everything I thow at it. Mk12, not so much.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:09:25 PM EDT

[#9]

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actually what he posted in that thread is a complete lie. i locked for a particular comment. and he was not banned.

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As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:11:20 PM EDT

[#10]

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Simply put, if the gas port was well within spec for what a 20" rifle should have, then it was Nutn's goof for selecting a precision type upper and expecting it to operate like an AK.

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Except that, in no way, reflects what the issue at hand is all about.

Pretty much a complete swing and a miss.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:12:35 PM EDT

[#11]

Update in OP.

ETA 2

Way back in this thread I posted had he come by our booth, I'd have loaded him down with booth uppers.

The Shotshow trailer is back so I had the guys pull a 5.56 out of the gunbox, slap a Surefire can on it, run 1000 rounds through it (they shot 1,025 rounds), no oil, no cleaning.

It ran non-stop, no oil, no cleaning. We shot groups before and after just for the heck of it.

The tOBR ...

Gunk pic ...

Before starting 1,000 round run ...

After 1,025 rounds - note 1st group / 1st round flyer - rifle had been allowed to completely cool but no cleaning no oil ...

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:14:09 PM EDT

[#12]

Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:14:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Just a thought, but why would one duracoat a rifle that was unreliable or a lemon, straight out of the manufacturer's box? Seems dumb to invest the time and introduce other possible complications to something that already didn't work as expected or had problems. I would think one would try to isolate and fix any problems then, before making it look pretty. Maybe some think duracoating a rifle fixes issues?

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:15:26 PM EDT

[#14]

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As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

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Quoted:

actually what he posted in that thread is a complete lie. i locked for a particular comment. and he was not banned.

As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

Nutnfancy drew first blood. There is nothing wrong with a business defending its reputation in a public forum.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:16:45 PM EDT

[#15]

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Update in OP.

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But was it PMC?

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:16:47 PM EDT

[#16]

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Update in OP.

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Clearly a faulty upper. You only hit the paper twice with your first "after" group.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:17:15 PM EDT

[#17]

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I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

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Posted: 1/27/2015 4:17:30 PM EDT

[#18]

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Nutnfancy drew first blood. There is nothing wrong with a business defending its reputation in a public forum.

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actually what he posted in that thread is a complete lie. i locked for a particular comment. and he was not banned.

As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

Nutnfancy drew first blood. There is nothing wrong with a business defending its reputation in a public forum.

I understand, defending on a public forums in a mature way is different than this thread has gone and Im just as guilty as the rest. Some ppl think Mark is handling it just fine, I disagree, that is what makes this country great.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:17:34 PM EDT

[#19]

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Update in OP.

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Clearly an invalid test.

Please retest with a incorrectly installed PRI gas block and post results.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:17:53 PM EDT

[#20]

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But was it PMC?

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Update in OP.

But was it PMC?

Uh, no.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:18:12 PM EDT

[#21]

Not a bad way to spend an hour "Go dump a thousand rounds thru a Tobr"

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:22:15 PM EDT

[#22]

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<snip>

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

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Is it already milkin' time again.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:25:41 PM EDT

[#23]

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Except that, in no way, reflects what the issue at hand is all about.

Pretty much a complete swing and a miss.

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Simply put, if the gas port was well within spec for what a 20" rifle should have, then it was Nutn's goof for selecting a precision type upper and expecting it to operate like an AK.

Except that, in no way, reflects what the issue at hand is all about.

Pretty much a complete swing and a miss.

What did I miss? He claims the rifle wasn't cycling, sent it back repeatedly, still didn't do what he wanted, so he drills the gas port himself. NF states the gas port was "within spec", drills it out, now it works. Larue didn't fix what wasn't broke (the gas port), but fixed what was (his gas block install).

Yes, I know he aparently bungled the PRI gas block. But we repeatedly see him shooting all different kinds of ammo, including steel case, PMC stuff, etc. We see that it's cold and snowy. And aparently he's in Utah. Is it not within reason that even with a spec gas port for a 20" rifle, given his location, the weather, and his choice of ammo, that those factors could have induced some of the stoppages?

I know the issue at hand is that NF claims the upper never worked, contradicts himself a bunch, bubba'd' the rifle, and has stepped in it. I was trying to understand whether his claim that it had stopages "out of the box" can hold any water in the absolute worst case scenario of ammo and weather.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:28:52 PM EDT

[#24]

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As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

actually what he posted in that thread is a complete lie. i locked for a particular comment. and he was not banned.

As much as Ill probably regret this...I do believe in integrity and when called out for it, ill make it right. I have done it in other threads before, and ill do it in this one too.

In the spirit of full disclosure..I wasnt perma banned from AR15.com. I was temporarily locked for 20-30days, it could come down to symantics (sp), but the fact was I was locked out for 20-30 days for the comments I made in the Larue forums, it was a discussion that obviously got out of hand. So, if anyone was mislead by my posts on another forums 5-6years ago. I apologize. I was temporarily banned from AR15.com back then, not perma banned (obviously)

And for all the hate mail ive received, I was never nor am I now a nutnfancy fan or whore (as it was posted to me). I never said Larue wasnt a good product, I do feel there is a lack of professionalism, but ive never said their product wasntny good, a bit pricey.

I have REPEATEDLY stated that I believe nutnfancy messed up his rifle on his own, apparently no one read those parts. I also believe no one is immune from product defect. The fact that nutnfancy altered the gas hole before larue may have had an oppurtunity to look at it, does take it out of the manufactors hands, not once did I say that Larue was responsible for fixing it, im surprised they bothered, but was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Thats just good business.

I even asked legit questions to never get a reply, instead got replies of immature comments and .gifs.

This thread should have never been started IMO, it shouldve been a matter that was taken behind closed doors.

Waka Waka, is that you?

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:29:33 PM EDT

[#25]

There is no reason why a 20" Stealth upper won't run even in extreme cold, with PMC fodder, unless PMC dropped the pressures so low, it will short stroke.

Nutnfancy was having FTFire issues that I'm not even sure were properly diagnosed, but that PRI gas block flip-up front sight tells me he played around with what arrived as a functioning upper, and then it didn't function.

I saw him walking through the halls of SHOT either last year or the year before, and he was like a skunk. Nobody wanted to go near him. It was a bit amusing to me to watch.

I frequently run a lot of high volume shooting in arctic conditions, with lesser guns than the Stealth, and they run fine.

The video Fudd'nnancy did was nowhere near arctic conditions, so I see nothing in the climate of Idaho with the sun shining that is going to make an AR choke.

This was a modified hack job with an improperly aligned gas block, pure and simple. We see this all the time with noobs to the AR15 and AR10, where they never measure the distance from the barrel shoulder-to-gas port at the gas block journal, or the distance from the rear of the gas block to the center of the gas port inside the block.

And then they pipe into the Variants section or other technical sub forums complaining about "jams". These malfs are without exception short stroke malfs, with failure to feed.

For someone who has been messing around with AR15's for years, they should know the basic set-up of a correctly aligned gas block.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:34:23 PM EDT

[#26]

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What did I miss?

Yes, I know he aparently bungled the PRI gas block.

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That's where the issue starts and ends.

While low powered ammo and cold weather might contribute to the issues a bungled gas block install is nearly guaranteed to cause problems. More importantly, once Nutt&butter starts monkeying with the equipment the warranty is null and void and LaRue isn't responsible for anything. Period.

This entire saga starts the second Nuttbuggerer decides to disassemble the stock product.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:35:47 PM EDT

[#27]

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Not a bad way to spend an hour "Go dump a thousand rounds thru a Tobr"

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Damn no kiddin!

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:35:48 PM EDT

[#28]

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

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Even filthy after the 1,000 straight rounds, it had the makings of a 1 MOA challenger.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:37:09 PM EDT

[#29]

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

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Yeah, might as well send that upper to IG. He did a boat load of work and that upper is now un-sellable.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:37:28 PM EDT

[#30]

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Even filthy after the 1,000 straight rounds, it had the makings of a 1 MOA challenger.

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

Even filthy after the 1,000 straight rounds, it had the makings of a 1 MOA challenger.

Well a dirty puppy is still cute

And I bet the shooters were a bit tired and werent up to their best performance when shooting those groups

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:38:19 PM EDT

[#31]

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

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I'll give $25 and two dillos....

And I will keep the gas block on it and not cerakote it either.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:38:55 PM EDT

[#32]

I have some more work to do..... after I finish that we will see If I can put up listening to more of the BS for part 2.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:40:49 PM EDT

[#33]

Nutn's still looking for a gas block to fit his revolver's new gas ports.

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

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I'll give $25 and two dillos....

And I will keep the gas block on it and not cerakote it either.

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Hey now, a good upper doesn't need a gas block to cycle.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:43:50 PM EDT

[#34]

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Update in OP.

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Optics?

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:44:43 PM EDT

[#35]

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Yeah, might as well send that upper to IG. He did a boat load of work and that upper is now un-sellable.

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

Yeah, might as well send that upper to IG. He did a boat load of work and that upper is now un-sellable.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:46:06 PM EDT

[#36]

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Optics?

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Quoted:

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Update in OP.

Optics?

Written on cardboard .

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:46:20 PM EDT

[#37]

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:47:52 PM EDT

[#38]

The way you handle your business and stand up for your company and its reputation has repeatedly convinced me that my first Higher end AR should be from your company Mr. LaRue.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:48:53 PM EDT

[#39]

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Written on cardboard .

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Update in OP.

Optics?

Written on cardboard .

I mount mine

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:49:16 PM EDT

[#40]

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Written on cardboard .

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Update in OP.

Optics?

Written on cardboard .

I mount mine on the rifle. Can't read.

Or post competently.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:53:25 PM EDT

[#41]

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That's where the issue starts and ends.

While low powered ammo and cold weather might contribute to the issues a bungled gas block install is nearly guaranteed to cause problems. More importantly, once Nutt&butter starts monkeying with the equipment the warranty is null and void and LaRue isn't responsible for anything. Period.

This entire saga starts the second Nuttbuggerer decides to disassemble the stock product.

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What did I miss?

Yes, I know he aparently bungled the PRI gas block.

That's where the issue starts and ends.

While low powered ammo and cold weather might contribute to the issues a bungled gas block install is nearly guaranteed to cause problems. More importantly, once Nutt&butter starts monkeying with the equipment the warranty is null and void and LaRue isn't responsible for anything. Period.

This entire saga starts the second Nuttbuggerer decides to disassemble the stock product.

Yep, I agreed with that already, in relation to the issue of Nutn blaming the issue on Larue.

I was pointing out that it was silly for Mr. "Run around in the snow acting like it's the end of the world" to select a precision upper, run shitty ammo in it, in bad weather, and expect it to eat any ammo like a BCM M4. I wanted to explore his claims that it didn't work out of the box, and what possible factors could have led to him having feeding problems IF it were still factory stock. We know that later he did swap parts around, but he still claims that at one point, in factory condition, he had problems with it. That's the particular part of this I was trying to get at.

But even if you can prove a factory perfect 20" Stealth would have cycling issues with PMC bronze or steel ammo in cold weather and higher altitudes than Tx where they are built, it still wouldn't be a smoking gun for Nutn'. Unless Mark comes in and says the 20" Stealth uppers, or the Stealth uppers in general are gassed to run any ammo in any conditions anywhere in the planet, I'm going to assume they are tuned for using the minimal amount of gas to run factory match ammo and factory quality 5.56 pressue ammo, and that using .223 pressure, steel or brass cased ammo could potentially push the upper outside its design limitations to function.

Posted: 1/27/2015 4:58:47 PM EDT

[#42]

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Even filthy after the 1,000 straight rounds, it had the makings of a 1 MOA challenger.

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Poor abused tOBR needs a good home

Even filthy after the 1,000 straight rounds, it had the makings of a 1 MOA challenger.

Don't clean it.
That upper, those targets.
The most awesome February contest ever.

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:00:28 PM EDT

[#43]

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Yep, I agreed with that already, in relation to the issue of Nutn blaming the issue on Larue.

I was pointing out that it was silly for Mr. "Run around in the snow acting like it's the end of the world" to select a precision upper, run shitty ammo in it, in bad weather, and expect it to eat any ammo like a BCM M4. I wanted to explore his claims that it didn't work out of the box, and what possible factors could have led to him having feeding problems IF it were still factory stock. We know that later he did swap parts around, but he still claims that at one point, in factory condition, he had problems with it. That's the particular part of this I was trying to get at.

But even if you can prove a factory perfect 20" Stealth would have cycling issues with PMC bronze or steel ammo in cold weather and higher altitudes than Tx where they are built, it still wouldn't be a smoking gun for Nutn'. Unless Mark comes in and says the 20" Stealth uppers, or the Stealth uppers in general are gassed to run any ammo in any conditions anywhere in the planet, I'm going to assume they are tuned for using the minimal amount of gas to run factory match ammo and factory quality 5.56 pressue ammo, and that using .223 pressure, steel or brass cased ammo could potentially push the upper outside its design limitations to function.

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There is no reason why a 20" RLGS AR15 with a .094" gas port should not run in those warm conditions Fudd'nancy was shooting in, even with PMC. He mis-aligned the gas block, didn't ensure a correct seal or alignment, and failed to trouble-shoot his megabortion. I mean, why would you complain about the LaRue gas block's weight, then slap on a PRI flip-up?

Fudd'nancy be tarded again. He's farted intestinal nuggest all over the bed, in his sheets and blanky, then smeared it on the wall, and mama and dadda need to come in and clean up the mess.

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:03:19 PM EDT

[#44]

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Optics?

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Update in OP.

Optics?

Look at the notes on the targets.

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:06:54 PM EDT

[#45]

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I wouldn't count that out just yet. If NF were running 100% Federal XM193, MH Mk262, FGMM, etc, then it would lend a lot more credibility to his claims the barrel was undergassed. All his monkeying aside, his video did show it having cycling issues even it what appeared to be a "factory" config, ie no PRI FSB or Troy rails. Like I said before, lower powered ammo may have exacerbated the issue. Even if his PRI FSB were a little bit too close to the shoulder, the opening should have allowed enough gas. But if it was indeed obscuring the port, maybe it would have been fine with XM193, but with steel or PMC bronce, it wasn't.

I am not defending him, absolutely not. I think the gas port was perfectly fine for most situations, NF just happens to be running in that small % that is introduced by his environment and selected ammo. I wouldn't expect my Mk12 to operate the same way as my old BCM 16" M4 upper. That upper is designed to eat everything I thow at it. Mk12, not so much.

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True, bud that's beside the point. NF took a perfectly good upper that we know he had from 2008 to 2010 and was in working order, bubba'd it by disassembling it, painting it, and putting on other manufacturer's parts, sent it back, had it fixed, bubba'd it a second time, then erroneously faulted the manufacturer. Ammo has nothing to do with it. Based alone on how he used a hammer and punch to remove a Glock baseplate in a vise, it is obvious ammo choice has little to do with it and is more attributable to his hack job garage gun smithing.

If I were ML, I would vigorously defend my products and reputation as well. True, NF is a kook, but unfortunately, hundreds of thousands listen to him. I don't see it as just defending himself, he is defending products I own. Thanks ML for a quality product backed by a quality warranty and for having the integrity to stand up and defend both.

I wouldn't count that out just yet. If NF were running 100% Federal XM193, MH Mk262, FGMM, etc, then it would lend a lot more credibility to his claims the barrel was undergassed. All his monkeying aside, his video did show it having cycling issues even it what appeared to be a "factory" config, ie no PRI FSB or Troy rails. Like I said before, lower powered ammo may have exacerbated the issue. Even if his PRI FSB were a little bit too close to the shoulder, the opening should have allowed enough gas. But if it was indeed obscuring the port, maybe it would have been fine with XM193, but with steel or PMC bronce, it wasn't.

I am not defending him, absolutely not. I think the gas port was perfectly fine for most situations, NF just happens to be running in that small % that is introduced by his environment and selected ammo. I wouldn't expect my Mk12 to operate the same way as my old BCM 16" M4 upper. That upper is designed to eat everything I thow at it. Mk12, not so much.

Good points. I know you aren't defending him. I just don't think PMC is going to choke a gun like that, especially one with a full length barrel. I would be inclined to think that the LaRue upper would run just fine on Wolf ammo if it hadn't been screwed with. I could see it happening to an SBR though. I had a batch of Centurion I ran through my rifle with a 11.5 " DD barrel and factory installed gas block that wouldn't cycle reliably. XM193, Prvi, and others ran just fine through it over thousands of rounds. The Centurion ammo chronoed at around 2500 fps from my rifle and was noticeably weak. It certainly wasn't the fault of Daniel Defense, and I sure as hell wasn't going to take my DeWalt drill to the gas port just so I could run some shitty Centurion ammo through it!

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:15:21 PM EDT

[#46]

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The way you handle your business and stand up for your company and its reputation has repeatedly convinced me that my first Higher end AR should be from your company Mr. LaRue.

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+1

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:16:45 PM EDT

[#47]

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What did I miss? He claims the rifle wasn't cycling, sent it back repeatedly, still didn't do what he wanted, so he drills the gas port himself. NF states the gas port was "within spec", drills it out, now it works. Larue didn't fix what wasn't broke (the gas port), but fixed what was (his gas block install).

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Simply put, if the gas port was well within spec for what a 20" rifle should have, then it was Nutn's goof for selecting a precision type upper and expecting it to operate like an AK.

Except that, in no way, reflects what the issue at hand is all about.

Pretty much a complete swing and a miss.

What did I miss? He claims the rifle wasn't cycling, sent it back repeatedly, still didn't do what he wanted, so he drills the gas port himself. NF states the gas port was "within spec", drills it out, now it works. Larue didn't fix what wasn't broke (the gas port), but fixed what was (his gas block install).

20" uppers are just about the most reliable uppers that you can get assuming you don't tinker with them of course.

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:19:18 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

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Update in OP.

ETA 2

Way back in this thread I posted had he come by our booth, I'd have loaded him down with booth uppers.

The Shotshow trailer is back so I had the guys pull a 5.56 out of the gunbox, slap a Surefire can on it, run 1000 rounds through it (they shot 1,025 rounds), no oil, no cleaning.

It ran non-stop, no oil, no cleaning. We shot groups before and after just for the heck of it.

The tOBR ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zps26135d4c.jpg

Gunk pic ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zpse5e6366e.jpg

Before starting 1,000 round run ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zpsc956cbda.jpg

After 1,025 rounds - note 1st group / 1st round flyer - rifle had been allowed to completely cool but no cleaning no oil ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/photo_zps95c24ecb.jpg

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Awesome. I just got an e-mail with this from your company. I can only hope NF is still on the LT distribution list and received it as well.

Posted: 1/27/2015 5:26:09 PM EDT

[#49]

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http://i.gyazo.com/7fc1c36f1b6ccb9936c4244c1dcab231.png

The gas port wasn't broke, the end users brain was.

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Simply put, if the gas port was well within spec for what a 20" rifle should have, then it was Nutn's goof for selecting a precision type upper and expecting it to operate like an AK.

Except that, in no way, reflects what the issue at hand is all about.

Pretty much a complete swing and a miss.

What did I miss? He claims the rifle wasn't cycling, sent it back repeatedly, still didn't do what he wanted, so he drills the gas port himself. NF states the gas port was "within spec", drills it out, now it works. Larue didn't fix what wasn't broke (the gas port), but fixed what was (his gas block install).

http://i.gyazo.com/7fc1c36f1b6ccb9936c4244c1dcab231.png

The gas port wasn't broke, the end users brain was.

Yes, I saw that. I'm aware of that. Reading comprehension and all, I was trying to look at his claims of failures BEFORE HE SWAPPED IN THE PRI. I get that his attempts at installing the PRI FSB led to a misaligned gas block.

Watch Infinite's counterpoint vid, it nicely breaks down NF's statements that, in his words, he mounted it (the upper) and had feeding issues right out of the gate. That's where I was trying to figure out if it was even remotely feasible that an as-built 20" Stealth, pre-NF screwing with it, would have been sensitive to ammo like Wolf or MPC bronze based on the weather or his altitude.

And yes, finally NF admits that when he checks the gas port it's within spec for a 20" before he whacks it with his drill. That's why I'm trying to get at what other factors, if the gas port was correct, and with the original gas block in place, could have cause NF to claim to have stoppages. Obviously something smells shitty here because NF's story doesn't seem to line up with his own comments IN THE SAME VID. I agree that his real issues lie in his poor workmanship.