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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:22:15 PM EDT
[#1]
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If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme.Then please explain how throughout history trained military units have fallen to loose rabbles, mobs and rioters. It happened often enough in the ancient world, still happens in the modern world. . But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:22:26 PM EDT
[#2]
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Thank you. There ya go Mike. Directly from the top. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. I can now return to my regularly scheduled day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme. In your fantasy scenario though, I imagine push come to shove, the Romans would eventually eat it. I mean, nothing else, get in trucks and just slam into them. We're assuming that both sides adhere strictly to the "weapons" they would have had access to. If a time warp opened up in the middle of the day and out marches Caesar's Legio X, directly into a mob of FSA shitbirds, then of course it would go well for the Romans, though I think most would run away and it would take days to root them all out, and most people in Ferguson would die with the FSA. But that's a stupid ass premise. In order for this to even be interesting at all, the FSA mob would have at least 1 hour or more of a warning that Romans are in the area and are planning to kill them all. That's the length of time it would take to form the Romans up in their camp (which they would HAVE TO HAVE, being Roman they didn't fight battles without a camp nearby), march out of the camp, march to the site of battle/riot, form for battle from column to line, move any heavy weapons, allow movement for any flanking units, deploy skirmishers, etc. In that time, Tyrone Biggums the addict can smoke some crack, jack a truck, and run over a shit load of Romans. As soon as people see how successfully that worked, the streets will almost be jam packed with cars crushing Romans to death. Everything else is gravy at that point. The only hope is for the Roman commander to "release" the Legion in pursuit, to avoid clustering, but considering the alien terrain/technology and the large population of Ferguson that will be hostile to only a paltry 5,000 men armed with ancient weapons, that could go very poorly. Thank you. There ya go Mike. Directly from the top. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. I can now return to my regularly scheduled day. Put what in my crack pipe? His argument that I agree with, which once again shows how you are dead wrong? OK, declare victory on that. LOL. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:24:46 PM EDT
[#3]
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But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme.Then please explain how throughout history trained military units have fallen to loose rabbles, mobs and rioters. It happened often enough in the ancient world, still happens in the modern world. . But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". Confined to a street (bottleneck) is much more of a detriment to the Romans whose entire fighting system is based on organized formations. The rabble is always more fluid. Roman insistence, and need to move in defensible units becomes their downfall in the streets. Concentrated and susceptible to attacks from fire, large vehicles, electricty, explosives and gunfire. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:26:59 PM EDT
[#4]
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Oh, are you still here not adding anything to the conversation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Anti-Ceasar had already decreed that. Mike just forgot. Oh, are you still here not adding anything to the conversation? Your side just conceeded. I honestly didn't think it would be that easy. You both read too much into the scenario, and I'm glad you did. Thanks for making it an entertaining donnybrook. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:30:53 PM EDT
[#5]
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Your side just conceeded. I honestly didn't think it would be that easy. You both read too much into the scenario, and I'm glad you did. Thanks for making it an entertaining donnybrook. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Anti-Ceasar had already decreed that. Mike just forgot. Oh, are you still here not adding anything to the conversation? Your side just conceeded. I honestly didn't think it would be that easy. You both read too much into the scenario, and I'm glad you did. Thanks for making it an entertaining donnybrook. Nobody conceded anything, and you are still trolling hard. So lame. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:32:28 PM EDT
[#6]
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since we are dealing in FANTASY its ok to just wave your hands and forget about all that reality stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They would flee in terror and confusion at the sight of the modern world. since we are dealing in FANTASY its ok to just wave your hands and forget about all that reality stuff. They'd probably die of laughter after the first car with rims drove by. The Legion I picked brought monkeys. Their specialty is throwing flaming monkeys with siege weapons. (I hate finding a mispelled word after it's too late to correct.) |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:35:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First off, stop sycophanting. Your master can handle his own arguments. Second of all, A specific legion is not needed. Any trained force of 5000 armed men could handle the FergFsa. 5000 Spartans? done. 5000 Huns? Done. 5000 Zulus? Done. The Ferg wouldn't have had the chance to get organised. A large, trained, well equipped, cohesive force, beats a rabble. That has been the history of mankind. Deep down, you know this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There you go again. Changing the rules. Cheating. Again.  You said we could pick Any Roman Legion. Now, we get third rate slackers? Can you at least try to be consistant? Nobody changed the rules, and nobody cheated. You still haven't picked a specific legion, even tho he has asked several times. Seriously, if you're not going to bring a single thing to the conversation, just bow out. First off, stop sycophanting. Your master can handle his own arguments. Second of all, A specific legion is not needed. Any trained force of 5000 armed men could handle the FergFsa. 5000 Spartans? done. 5000 Huns? Done. 5000 Zulus? Done. The Ferg wouldn't have had the chance to get organised. A large, trained, well equipped, cohesive force, beats a rabble. That has been the history of mankind. Deep down, you know this. Some examples of Roman legions destroyed by rabble, as well as Greek: I hope this post wasn't too sycophanting
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:36:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you. There ya go Mike. Directly from the top. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. I can now return to my regularly scheduled day. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme. In your fantasy scenario though, I imagine push come to shove, the Romans would eventually eat it. I mean, nothing else, get in trucks and just slam into them. We're assuming that both sides adhere strictly to the "weapons" they would have had access to. If a time warp opened up in the middle of the day and out marches Caesar's Legio X, directly into a mob of FSA shitbirds, then of course it would go well for the Romans, though I think most would run away and it would take days to root them all out, and most people in Ferguson would die with the FSA. But that's a stupid ass premise. In order for this to even be interesting at all, the FSA mob would have at least 1 hour or more of a warning that Romans are in the area and are planning to kill them all. That's the length of time it would take to form the Romans up in their camp (which they would HAVE TO HAVE, being Roman they didn't fight battles without a camp nearby), march out of the camp, march to the site of battle/riot, form for battle from column to line, move any heavy weapons, allow movement for any flanking units, deploy skirmishers, etc. In that time, Tyrone Biggums the addict can smoke some crack, jack a truck, and run over a shit load of Romans. As soon as people see how successfully that worked, the streets will almost be jam packed with cars crushing Romans to death. Everything else is gravy at that point. The only hope is for the Roman commander to "release" the Legion in pursuit, to avoid clustering, but considering the alien terrain/technology and the large population of Ferguson that will be hostile to only a paltry 5,000 men armed with ancient weapons, that could go very poorly. Thank you. There ya go Mike. Directly from the top. Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it. I can now return to my regularly scheduled day. The Romans would never fight a battle, quell a riot, or lay siege to anything if they didn't have a camp to fall back to. In other words, they could not just appear out of nowhere and slaughter anyone. The centurions alone would revolt against the tribunes and Legate if they attempted that. A camp would get built, one way or another, and it would need to be about 200 square yards, would need to be defensible, near a water source, and within quick marching distance of the riot area. Probably means a local school or golf course. Being winter, digging is going to be a pain in the ass and forget about grazing the pack animals and horses, so they'd start having feeding issues in about a week. In conclusion:  |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:38:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your side just conceeded. I honestly didn't think it would be that easy. You both read too much into the scenario, and I'm glad you did. Thanks for making it an entertaining donnybrook. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Anti-Ceasar had already decreed that. Mike just forgot. Oh, are you still here not adding anything to the conversation? Your side just conceeded. I honestly didn't think it would be that easy. You both read too much into the scenario, and I'm glad you did. Thanks for making it an entertaining donnybrook. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:45:02 PM EDT
[#10]
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Dude...you suck at history. Seriously, where do you live cause I'll paypal you whatever it costs for a fucking library card. Some examples of Roman legions destroyed by rabble, as well as Greek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Servile_War#Defeat_of_the_praetorian_armies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beth_Horon_(66) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica#Boudica.27s_uprising http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helots#Helot_revolts I hope this post wasn't too sycophanting
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There you go again. Changing the rules. Cheating. Again.
You said we could pick Any Roman Legion. Now, we get third rate slackers? Can you at least try to be consistant? Nobody changed the rules, and nobody cheated. You still haven't picked a specific legion, even tho he has asked several times. Seriously, if you're not going to bring a single thing to the conversation, just bow out. First off, stop sycophanting. Your master can handle his own arguments. Second of all, A specific legion is not needed. Any trained force of 5000 armed men could handle the FergFsa. 5000 Spartans? done. 5000 Huns? Done. 5000 Zulus? Done. The Ferg wouldn't have had the chance to get organised. A large, trained, well equipped, cohesive force, beats a rabble. That has been the history of mankind. Deep down, you know this. Some examples of Roman legions destroyed by rabble, as well as Greek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Servile_War#Defeat_of_the_praetorian_armies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beth_Horon_(66) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudica#Boudica.27s_uprising http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helots#Helot_revolts I hope this post wasn't too sycophanting
And as I pointed out earlier, failed repeatedly against Spartacus' slave rebellion. Slaves. And in the ancient world, Roman slaves often were fairly accepting of their lot in life, as it was just an accepted part of the world they lived in. And yet these slaves handed the Romans their asses more than once. Yet we're expected to believe that protesters in Ferguson couldn't possibly organize and do what largely compliant slaves in ancient times did, without the use of any modern weapons and tools. Wow. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:50:00 PM EDT
[#11]
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A FUBU Hoodie is no protection from a Pilum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LMFAO
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:50:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They'd probably die of laughter after the first car with rims drove by. The Legion I picked brought monkeys. They're specialty is throwing flaming monkeys with siege weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: They would flee in terror and confusion at the sight of the modern world. since we are dealing in FANTASY its ok to just wave your hands and forget about all that reality stuff. They'd probably die of laughter after the first car with rims drove by. The Legion I picked brought monkeys. They're specialty is throwing flaming monkeys with siege weapons. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:51:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It requires technical prowess dramatically beyond any Roman soldier's comprehension. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But you have a mob of angry 40oz swillers suddenly confronted with an organized group of killers who want to kill them most efficiently, they aren't going to scout about for their laptops (LOL--as if) and they won't comprehend that these are primitives. They will have initial shock and confusion that turns to fear and running when heads start coming off. You cannot remove any sort of thought or discernment from the Romans and then grant that same level (or even higher) thought to the FSA, because they have not demonstrated it yet. The rabble is used to an "enemy" that is not permitted to hurt them, not really, and they wouldn't be able to get their minds around that aspect, much less present a coordinated effort nor understanding and capitalizing on the weaknesses of the Romans. I think you've watched too much Star Trek. Gods don't bleed. They may be taken aback by a handgun at first, but would rapidly understand it as a weapon wielded by a man, and adjust accordingly if given the opportunity and, since the FSA would not be coordinated for a bit, they would have that opportunity. You have a dramatically unrealistic view of the technological prowess of protesters who, many among them, were live broadcasting the protests from their cell phones on internet video streams. Despite trying to portray them as brainless 40oz swilling zombies, many of them were hardly that. Streaming a video from today's smartphones and apps doesn't require "technological prowess." It requires technical prowess dramatically beyond any Roman soldier's comprehension. Ah, but that wasn't what you said.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:52:30 PM EDT
[#14]
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Confined to a street (bottleneck) is much more of a detriment to the Romans whose entire fighting system is based on organized formations. The rabble is always more fluid. Roman insistence, and need to move in defensible units becomes their downfall in the streets. Concentrated and susceptible to attacks from fire, large vehicles, electricty, explosives and gunfire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme.Then please explain how throughout history trained military units have fallen to loose rabbles, mobs and rioters. It happened often enough in the ancient world, still happens in the modern world. . But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". Confined to a street (bottleneck) is much more of a detriment to the Romans whose entire fighting system is based on organized formations. The rabble is always more fluid. Roman insistence, and need to move in defensible units becomes their downfall in the streets. Concentrated and susceptible to attacks from fire, large vehicles, electricty, explosives and gunfire. I dunno...Just my wild guessing, but I imagine most rioters are gonna break really quick after the first few are stabbed and hacked in close quarters. I don't see veteran, armed troops of any stripe falling apart as fast, even if their training dictates a different style of fighting. The assumption here is a fighting group rounding the street corner and ordered to take down a mob of rioters who can't just disperse into the city. Now you give 21st-century American males advance warning of what's coming and time to prepare and there's no way they're losing unless insanely outnumbered. There's just way too many advantages for the FSA person to leverage. I think the only debate they'll have at that point will be whether to use 9mm or 45s. EDIT: Now the real question should be: could a Roman legion have prevented Pearl Harbor? |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:58:29 PM EDT
[#15]
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Ah, but that wasn't what you said. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But you have a mob of angry 40oz swillers suddenly confronted with an organized group of killers who want to kill them most efficiently, they aren't going to scout about for their laptops (LOL--as if) and they won't comprehend that these are primitives. They will have initial shock and confusion that turns to fear and running when heads start coming off. You cannot remove any sort of thought or discernment from the Romans and then grant that same level (or even higher) thought to the FSA, because they have not demonstrated it yet. The rabble is used to an "enemy" that is not permitted to hurt them, not really, and they wouldn't be able to get their minds around that aspect, much less present a coordinated effort nor understanding and capitalizing on the weaknesses of the Romans. I think you've watched too much Star Trek. Gods don't bleed. They may be taken aback by a handgun at first, but would rapidly understand it as a weapon wielded by a man, and adjust accordingly if given the opportunity and, since the FSA would not be coordinated for a bit, they would have that opportunity. You have a dramatically unrealistic view of the technological prowess of protesters who, many among them, were live broadcasting the protests from their cell phones on internet video streams. Despite trying to portray them as brainless 40oz swilling zombies, many of them were hardly that. Streaming a video from today's smartphones and apps doesn't require "technological prowess." It requires technical prowess dramatically beyond any Roman soldier's comprehension. Ah, but that wasn't what you said. But it is completely in line with what I said earlier about being able to use a laptop, camera and projector, which is where the above quotes stemmed from. It is completely in line with what I also said about being abble to follow twitter and CNN on a smart phone, and being able to coordinate vie cell phone to track the Roman movements. The FSA used cell phones to stay ahead of rioters and coordinate their next rally points. They would absolutely be able to do that to the Romans, who would be much more slower to move, and had none of the command and control communication that the Ferguson riot police had. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:00:20 PM EDT
[#16]
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I dunno...Just my wild guessing, but I imagine most rioters are gonna break really quick after the first few are stabbed and hacked in close quarters. I don't see veteran, armed troops of any stripe falling apart as fast, even if their training dictates a different style of fighting. The assumption here is a fighting group rounding the street corner and ordered to take down a mob of rioters who can't just disperse into the city. Now you give 21st-century American males advance warning of what's coming and time to prepare and there's no way they're losing unless insanely outnumbered. There's just way too many advantages for the FSA person to leverage. I think the only debate they'll have at that point will be whether to use 9mm or 45s. EDIT: Now the real question should be: could a Roman legion have prevented Pearl Harbor? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If a militarily trained, veteran force of any era were to face off against a loose rabble of rioters on a street, and no one was allowed to run, the slaughter would be extreme.Then please explain how throughout history trained military units have fallen to loose rabbles, mobs and rioters. It happened often enough in the ancient world, still happens in the modern world. . But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". Confined to a street (bottleneck) is much more of a detriment to the Romans whose entire fighting system is based on organized formations. The rabble is always more fluid. Roman insistence, and need to move in defensible units becomes their downfall in the streets. Concentrated and susceptible to attacks from fire, large vehicles, electricty, explosives and gunfire. I dunno...Just my wild guessing, but I imagine most rioters are gonna break really quick after the first few are stabbed and hacked in close quarters. I don't see veteran, armed troops of any stripe falling apart as fast, even if their training dictates a different style of fighting. The assumption here is a fighting group rounding the street corner and ordered to take down a mob of rioters who can't just disperse into the city. Now you give 21st-century American males advance warning of what's coming and time to prepare and there's no way they're losing unless insanely outnumbered. There's just way too many advantages for the FSA person to leverage. I think the only debate they'll have at that point will be whether to use 9mm or 45s. EDIT: Now the real question should be: could a Roman legion have prevented Pearl Harbor? The point being, it is highly unrealistic for the Romans just to appear around the corner. The protesters were all over twitter. They would have been tipped. In that case, even given a short amount of warning if you know a force is being sent to hunt you down and murder you it is easy to fortify or launch and effective pre-emptive attack. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:15:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dunno...Just my wild guessing, but I imagine most rioters are gonna break really quick after the first few are stabbed and hacked in close quarters. I don't see veteran, armed troops of any stripe falling apart as fast, even if their training dictates a different style of fighting. The assumption here is a fighting group rounding the street corner and ordered to take down a mob of rioters who can't just disperse into the city. What is stopping the mob of rioters from dispersing? Did the Romans block off escape routes? Also, why would the Romans violate their normal SOP and not bother to construct a camp from which to operate out of? A one legion force with cavalry and skirmishers is going to have around 6,000 combatants, 2,000 noncombatants, a massive herd of pack mules and oxen to drive carts, a baggage train with whores, sutlers, fortune tellers, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, children, and slavers. As well as many many many tons of supplies. These all need to go somewhere and they won't be dumped on the streets before a Legion engages in battle. Here's how Romans did things: Approach march, set up camp, get good night sleep if possible, dress for battle, fall out, form for battle, fight, return to camp either victorious or rally there if battle is lost. Now you give 21st-century American males advance warning of what's coming and time to prepare and there's no way they're losing unless insanely outnumbered. There's just way too many advantages for the FSA person to leverage. This is the only real possibility since the Romans would need to first build a camp and then ready themselves. That gives many hours to prepare. I think the only debate they'll have at that point will be whether to use 9mm or 45s. More like V6 sedan vs V8 truck, in terms of effectiveness in running dudes over EDIT: Now the real question should be: could a Roman legion have prevented Pearl Harbor? With what? Ballistae and pila? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: But confined to a street, with no one able to leave? What I picture when I think of "rioters". Confined to a street (bottleneck) is much more of a detriment to the Romans whose entire fighting system is based on organized formations. The rabble is always more fluid. Roman insistence, and need to move in defensible units becomes their downfall in the streets. Concentrated and susceptible to attacks from fire, large vehicles, electricty, explosives and gunfire. I dunno...Just my wild guessing, but I imagine most rioters are gonna break really quick after the first few are stabbed and hacked in close quarters. I don't see veteran, armed troops of any stripe falling apart as fast, even if their training dictates a different style of fighting. The assumption here is a fighting group rounding the street corner and ordered to take down a mob of rioters who can't just disperse into the city. What is stopping the mob of rioters from dispersing? Did the Romans block off escape routes? Also, why would the Romans violate their normal SOP and not bother to construct a camp from which to operate out of? A one legion force with cavalry and skirmishers is going to have around 6,000 combatants, 2,000 noncombatants, a massive herd of pack mules and oxen to drive carts, a baggage train with whores, sutlers, fortune tellers, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, children, and slavers. As well as many many many tons of supplies. These all need to go somewhere and they won't be dumped on the streets before a Legion engages in battle. Here's how Romans did things: Approach march, set up camp, get good night sleep if possible, dress for battle, fall out, form for battle, fight, return to camp either victorious or rally there if battle is lost. Now you give 21st-century American males advance warning of what's coming and time to prepare and there's no way they're losing unless insanely outnumbered. There's just way too many advantages for the FSA person to leverage. This is the only real possibility since the Romans would need to first build a camp and then ready themselves. That gives many hours to prepare. I think the only debate they'll have at that point will be whether to use 9mm or 45s. More like V6 sedan vs V8 truck, in terms of effectiveness in running dudes over EDIT: Now the real question should be: could a Roman legion have prevented Pearl Harbor? With what? Ballistae and pila? |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:16:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote History[b]Originally Posted mike
The point being, it is highly unrealistic for the Romans just to appear around the corner. The protesters were all over twitter. They would have been tipped. In that case, even given a short amount of warning if you know a force is being sent to hunt you down and murder you it is easy to fortify or launch and effective pre-emptive attack. I mean...you are correct...it IS highly unrealistic for a Roman legion to just appear from around a corner. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:21:25 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean...you are correct...it IS highly unrealistic for a Roman legion to just appear from around a corner. Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally Posted mike The point being, it is highly unrealistic for the Romans just to appear around the corner. The protesters were all over twitter. They would have been tipped. In that case, even given a short amount of warning if you know a force is being sent to hunt you down and murder you it is easy to fortify or launch and effective pre-emptive attack. I mean...you are correct...it IS highly unrealistic for a Roman legion to just appear from around a corner. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:29:59 PM EDT
[#20]
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1000 to 1500 men ... a short blade is no defense against a Glock .40.  Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:33:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1000 to 1500 men ... a short blade is no defense against a Glock .40. Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:05:59 PM EDT
[#22]
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Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1000 to 1500 men ... a short blade is no defense against a Glock .40. Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. Pila aren't really that effective against this crowd. One of the main advantages of pila was to foul the opponents shield. Pila penetrates the shield and bends on impact. This makes the shield unwedildy and worthless, forcing your opponent to discard it, and the pila can't be thrown back. Protesters have no shields, and an unusually narrow front line (because they can only line up as wide as a Ferguson street means not many pila being thrown, hence easier to avoid. Really the pila was primarily a battlefield prep tool. Force your enemy to discard their defensive tool, hence making your gladius deadlier as you stand behind your own shield wall stabbing. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:30:40 PM EDT
[#23]
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Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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1000 to 1500 men ... a short blade is no defense against a Glock .40. Meh. 4000-5000 organized and trained chaps with pila they can toss 20 yards against some disorganized folks with a few handguns.....gonna bet on the legion myself. The experts here know better What do You know about hood rats and hipster protestors? Haaaa!!!!! Stay in your lane--oh wait!!!!
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:35:43 PM EDT
[#24]
A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting.
They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:41:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Thread needs more Egyptian chariots, Persian immortals, and/or waffen ss.
Thai elephant archers FTW. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 4:55:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What Roman formation would whoop a mass of protesters? Any large bunched up formation is going to have issues. The more bunched up, the more issues. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team? What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:01:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What Roman formation would whoop a mass of protesters? Any large bunched up formation is going to have issues. The more bunched up, the more issues. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team?
What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team?
What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:08:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team? What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again  Watch this video, its Kubrick's Spartacus. Famous battle scene, many thousands of Spanish soldiers serving as extras that were drilled to look like what Kubrick thought the Romans formed as. Anyway, watch how they roll some fiery logs into the Roman formation and what happens. Now nothing like that ever happened in ancient history but by watching it, you can understand the principle behind it, right? Now replace a fiery log with a bunch of things that look like this:  Do you not see how this could go bad for the Romans? |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:08:58 PM EDT
[#29]
It's funny thinking a bunch of FSA fools are going to unite and become overnight asymmetric warriors. Cars and dump trucks? That might work once or twice before the idiots crash into something and/or get stuck. It wouldn't take the Romans long to figure out that the glass can break and that advantage is nullified.
Those guys trained and lived to fight in brutal, horrible hand to hand combat for hours. Eveywhere they went they marched and carried their gear with them. They lived under unrelenting discipline where the punishment was swift and severe. In short they were a breed of killers the likes of which no one in the modern world has seen. Even with technological disadvantages I wouldn't bet against them against a mob of untrained undisciplined civilians who haven't worked for anything in their lives. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:13:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What disorder? Understanding how Romans actually operated? You started this goatrope... If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team?
What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again
Where do you think that the Romans are going to just stand there and let a dump truck run them over? It might work once or twice but it won't take long before they crash into something or get stuck and then it's all over. The freaking kill dozer barely lasted an hour before it got stuck. You think some idiot gangbanger is going to be an expert truck driver? You are giving too much credit to the mob while nitpicking stuff like the Romans' need to build a camp, etc. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:17:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What disorder? Understanding how Romans actually operated? You started this goatrope... If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team?
What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again
Yes, I admit to being an ignorant, poorly educated rube. I'm glad we have cosmopolitan, educated gentlemen such as yourself to teach us. It was a goat rope-----that was the intention. I don't think you get how these threads work. You've provided humor, for sure, but not the usual type. But thank you for participating. I do mean that. 
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:18:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's funny thinking a bunch of FSA fools are going to unite and become overnight asymmetric warriors. Cars and dump trucks? That might work once or twice before the idiots crash into something and/or get stuck. It wouldn't take the Romans long to figure out that the glass can break and that advantage is nullified. Those guys trained and lived to fight in brutal, horrible hand to hand combat for hours. Eveywhere they went they marched and carried their gear with them. They lived under unrelenting discipline where the punishment was swift and severe. In short they were a breed of killers the likes of which no one in the modern world has seen. Even with technological disadvantages I wouldn't bet against them against a mob of untrained undisciplined civilians who haven't worked for anything in their lives. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile You don't need a bunch of FSA fools to be masters of assymetric warriors, you just need a few that understand that if you throw a bowling ball at a bunch of tightly packed pins, many of them fall. Most FSA have gotten drunk and plowed into people and cars in DUIs, so I don't think the concept of running someone over is totally foreign to them. If you don't think FSA have cars, find out who buys rims and think again. Your generalizations of the Roman army is highly overstating the truth and is akin to stating every US Army unit is a highly disciplined and superbly trained military force at the top of its game, just because you watched a cool recruiting commercial or just saw Black Hawk Down. Do you believe Marines fight dragons too? I really can't believe the amount of underestimating people do, its almost like foresight is nonexistant. No wonder we had trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan. "Bunch of Arab camel jockey FSA can't do shit to us..." Bet the British said the same thing in 1775 "Bunch of colonist shitheads with hunting rifles, they can't do shit to us..."
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:20:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I admit to being an ignorant, poorly educated rube. I'm glad we have cosmopolitan, educated gentlemen such as yourself to teach us. It was a goat rope-----that was the intention. I don't think you get how these threads work. You've provided humor, for sure, but not the usual type. But thank you for participating. I do mean that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team? What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again Yes, I admit to being an ignorant, poorly educated rube. I'm glad we have cosmopolitan, educated gentlemen such as yourself to teach us. It was a goat rope-----that was the intention. I don't think you get how these threads work. You've provided humor, for sure, but not the usual type. But thank you for participating. I do mean that. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:28:14 PM EDT
[#34]
See, now you are providing humor!!!!!!!!!
But if this ARF thread has brought you some happiness, then I'm happy.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:35:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you think that the Romans are going to just stand there and let a dump truck run them over? It might work once or twice but it won't take long before they crash into something or get stuck and then it's all over. The freaking kill dozer barely lasted an hour before it got stuck. You think some idiot gangbanger is going to be an expert truck driver? You are giving too much credit to the mob while nitpicking stuff like the Romans' need to build a camp, etc. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A roman formation easily whoops a mass of protesters. Sure the occasional gun might be used but not in any great quality. Romans were absolutely no strangers to street fighting. They would meet the initial group eviscerate the first couple dozen protesters. They protesters would break and run. Soldiers could break off into units of 10's and mop up. Sure if you get an AR15 you could mop up in the right situation but I doubt they would be in sufficient numbers. I don't think people would organize into armed militia which is definitely what you needed. The car thing is kinda stupid. Sure if you surprised them and they were stuck in a confined formation ya. But in a platoon sized squad no. People no how to step out of the way. A Buick going 50 kills ya but not my much differently than a chariot does or a column of heavy Calvary. Don't be in its way and it can't run over you. In a city cars would be very compbersome for combat. Those would need to be some fast three point turn arounds. What is a platoon sized squad? Is that anything like a company sized brigade? What about a division sized fire team? What units of 10 Romans are you referring to because the smallest known tactical subunit was the century. A contubernium? Because that was purely a sleeping arrangement. There is no evidence that files were an actual fighting unit. No evidence of a commander of a file or a tent group as an actual rank. NONE. So dudes wouldn't break off in groups of 10 because that's about as arbitrary as saying groups of 17. No sub-leaders to command a group of 10. A car is nothing like a chariot or horse, its a fucking car. Its not going to veer away, get scared, bleed, or anything else. It goes exactly where the driver points it. And when a 3,567 lbs 2010 Buick Lasabre rams into a group of humans, at 40-50 mph, guess who wins? Not the squishy humans. Now imagine using something a bit sturdier like a box truck, garbage truck, or dump truck. Romans aren't going to step out of the way. Where do they step to? Dudes are on either side of them, front and back, in something called a formation. Once that formation collapses, that's all she wrote, cause unit cohesion is gone and then when that happens, guys will start running. This is the battle site for our little exercise. This is within a block of where Michael Brown got killed and is where a large amount of the rioting took place. Does it look too crowded for a car to maneuver? Its six lanes wide. Plenty of room for cars to maneuver. http://goo.gl/maps/WcsWr LOL I'm going to keep posting just to see how profound your disorder is. If I rolled a bowling ball down a lane into 10 wooden pins standing up, no one would have any issues understanding that the pins are going to lose. If I take a big ass boulder and roll it down a hill so it smacks into a 10x6 rank formation of men, no one is going to have issues understanding that the boulder will have the right away. So WTF is the disconnect where something like a garbage truck driving 40 mph into a group of people, and you think the truck loses. American public schools lose again Where do you think that the Romans are going to just stand there and let a dump truck run them over? It might work once or twice but it won't take long before they crash into something or get stuck and then it's all over. The freaking kill dozer barely lasted an hour before it got stuck. You think some idiot gangbanger is going to be an expert truck driver? You are giving too much credit to the mob while nitpicking stuff like the Romans' need to build a camp, etc. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile NOTE: There are no concrete medians in that section of Ferguson (look at the map I linked before).
As for moving out of the way, nope, doesn't work that way. The Romans will just stand there. Because they are used to following orders, such as: "Up to that time the sacramentum was the oath of allegiance administered to them by the tribunes, but they used to pledge each other not to quit the force by flight, or in consequence of fear, and not to leave the ranks except to seek a weapon, strike a foe, or save a comrade." Frontinus' Strategum, 4.1.4 Not only are they not allowed to get out of the way, under pain of death, they wouldn't have anywhere to get away too. The only men that could move would be on the outside rank and files of the formation and none of them would move quick enough to allow the bulk of the men on the interior to move either. So you rev up the garbage truck, floor it, aim at the center, where the leaders and standards are, drive right through it without stopping. After you pop out the back end, either keep driving, run more motherfuckers over, or turn around and drive back through that same unit you already partially crushed. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:38:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's funny thinking a bunch of FSA fools are going to unite and become overnight asymmetric warriors. Cars and dump trucks? That might work once or twice before the idiots crash into something and/or get stuck. It wouldn't take the Romans long to figure out that the glass can break and that advantage is nullified. Those guys trained and lived to fight in brutal, horrible hand to hand combat for hours. Eveywhere they went they marched and carried their gear with them. They lived under unrelenting discipline where the punishment was swift and severe. In short they were a breed of killers the likes of which no one in the modern world has seen. Even with technological disadvantages I wouldn't bet against them against a mob of untrained undisciplined civilians who haven't worked for anything in their lives. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And yet that unrelenting discipline and harsh punishment existed because they fearless killing machines the likes of which the modern world has never seen used to desert like crazy, and kill their commanders on the regular. Lots of people are attributing the average roman soldiers with their romanticized version of attributes, which was simply not the case. Most soldiers were a simple "fuck this shit" from vanishing in the night. It happened constantly. Modern American troops are infinitely more dedicated and badass than these mythical killing machines you speak of. Your average Roman soldier was a conscript or a converted farmer, poor, illiterate, dumb as a bag of rocks, and unhappy with how harsh the soldiering life turned out to be. Your teleported Roman Legion had better attack the very first day they get there (unlikely, as Stein pointed out their protocol was to pitch camp and attack the next day at earliest) because if they go to sleep, you'll have record desertions when they realize they are being asked to attack this strange, alien, hyper advanced city that lights up like the sun at night, and roars with the voices of monsters (cars passing on nearby freeways). I'm laying even odds that if the Romans don't attack Day 1, they don't attack period...they desert without a fight. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 5:53:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Folks who envision the legion with ballistas and catapults burning down the city are way off the mark. Gladiator is just a movie. Legionnaires carried their own weapons (see Marius' mules). That means a gladius/trident, a shield, and the armor they wore. A single legion would have no siege equipment worth a damn. These were either built on the spot or carried by supporting units. Hurling a few dozen rocks on Ferguson would have no effect. A legion also did not have significant number of archers/skirmishers. Those would have a few arrows with them, so they would not win from a distance.
I'm still puzzled by the people saying the legion would just power through firearms. Gang bangers also have weapons and ammo. Some of them even have military training. Do you think it is difficult to dump a hundred rounds into a legion advancing in a closed formation? Multiply that by 10 bad guys and you end up with slaughter. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:00:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Folks who envision the legion with ballistas and catapults burning down the city are way off the mark. Gladiator is just a movie. Legionnaires carried their own weapons (see Marius' mules). That means a gladius/trident, a shield, and the armor they wore. A single legion would have no siege equipment worth a damn. These were either built on the spot or carried by supporting units. Hurling a few dozen rocks on Ferguson would have no effect. A legion also did not have significant number of archers/skirmishers. Those would have a few arrows with them, so they would not win from a distance. I'm still puzzled by the people saying the legion would just power through firearms. Gang bangers also have weapons and ammo. Some of them even have military training. Do you think it is difficult to dump a hundred rounds into a legion advancing in a closed formation? Multiply that by 10 bad guys and you end up with slaughter. "I can assure you however they are as deadly an enemy as you will find anywhere but the battlefield. Even many soldiers probably lack the viciousness and utter disregard for life most hold up men possess." |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:01:45 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote History'm laying even odds that if the Romans don't attack Day 1, they don't attack period...they desert without a fight. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:02:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet that unrelenting discipline and harsh punishment existed because they fearless killing machines the likes of which the modern world has never seen used to desert like crazy, and kill their commanders on the regular. Lots of people are attributing the average roman soldiers with their romanticized version of attributes, which was simply not the case. Most soldiers were a simple "fuck this shit" from vanishing in the night. It happened constantly. Modern American troops are infinitely more dedicated and badass than these mythical killing machines you speak of. Your average Roman soldier was a conscript or a converted farmer, poor, illiterate, dumb as a bag of rocks, and unhappy with how harsh the soldiering life turned out to be. Your teleported Roman Legion had better attack the very first day they get there (unlikely, as Stein pointed out their protocol was to pitch camp and attack the next day at earliest) because if they go to sleep, you'll have record desertions when they realize they are being asked to attack this strange, alien, hyper advanced city that lights up like the sun at night, and roars with the voices of monsters (cars passing on nearby freeways). I'm laying even odds that if the Romans don't attack Day 1, they don't attack period...they desert without a fight. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's funny thinking a bunch of FSA fools are going to unite and become overnight asymmetric warriors. Cars and dump trucks? That might work once or twice before the idiots crash into something and/or get stuck. It wouldn't take the Romans long to figure out that the glass can break and that advantage is nullified. Those guys trained and lived to fight in brutal, horrible hand to hand combat for hours. Eveywhere they went they marched and carried their gear with them. They lived under unrelenting discipline where the punishment was swift and severe. In short they were a breed of killers the likes of which no one in the modern world has seen. Even with technological disadvantages I wouldn't bet against them against a mob of untrained undisciplined civilians who haven't worked for anything in their lives. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile And yet that unrelenting discipline and harsh punishment existed because they fearless killing machines the likes of which the modern world has never seen used to desert like crazy, and kill their commanders on the regular. Lots of people are attributing the average roman soldiers with their romanticized version of attributes, which was simply not the case. Most soldiers were a simple "fuck this shit" from vanishing in the night. It happened constantly. Modern American troops are infinitely more dedicated and badass than these mythical killing machines you speak of. Your average Roman soldier was a conscript or a converted farmer, poor, illiterate, dumb as a bag of rocks, and unhappy with how harsh the soldiering life turned out to be. Your teleported Roman Legion had better attack the very first day they get there (unlikely, as Stein pointed out their protocol was to pitch camp and attack the next day at earliest) because if they go to sleep, you'll have record desertions when they realize they are being asked to attack this strange, alien, hyper advanced city that lights up like the sun at night, and roars with the voices of monsters (cars passing on nearby freeways). I'm laying even odds that if the Romans don't attack Day 1, they don't attack period...they desert without a fight. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:16:27 PM EDT
[#41]
The bumping of Ferguson's car stereos playing all night driving past their camp would send the Legions into a panic.
The PSYOPS of 2-chains... |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:19:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bumping of Ferguson's car stereos playing all night driving past their camp would send the Legions into a panic. The PSYOPS of 2-chains... |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:21:13 PM EDT
[#43]
I think this would be my reaction if I was an average Roman legionary stepping through that portal and seeing the modern world:
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:24:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this would be my reaction if I was an average Roman legionary stepping through that portal and seeing the modern world: http://s.mlkshk.com/r/FNFN "What do you mean I can't have slaves? Women are people too and not possessions? Fuck this, I'm out"
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:31:12 PM EDT
[#45]
The real question is, would they prefer watching the Gladiatorial games in the Colosseum vs watching the Rams in the Dome? It would take a while to explain "unnecessary roughness".
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:31:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Blood eagle? Wrong millenium, wrong people. Those were Nordic people, not Romans. Like saying the Aztecs will perform harikari on you. Car vs. horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrCHLqit2K8 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
cataphract charge A cataphract was a form of armored heavy cavalry used in ancient warfare by a number of peoples in Western Eurasia and the Eurasian Steppe. Historically, the cataphract was a very heavily armored horseman, with both the rider and steed draped from head to toe in scale armour, while typically wielding a kontos or lance as their weapon. They were roughly four meters in length, with a capped point made of iron, bronze, or even animal bone and usually wielded with both hands. Most had a chain attached to the horse's neck and at the end by a fastening attached to the horse's hind leg, which supported the use of the lance by transferring the full momentum of a horse's gallop to the thrust of the charge. the penetrating power of the cataphract's lance was recognized as being fearful by Roman writers, described as being capable of transfixing two men at once, as well as inflicting deep and mortal wounds even on opposing cavalries' mounts, and were definitely more potent than the regular one-handed spear used by most other cavalries of the period. Cataphracts would often be equipped with an additional side-arm such as a sword or mace, for use in the melee that often followed a charge. Fire support was deemed particularly important for the proper deployment of cataphracts. The Parthian army that defeated the Romans at Carrhae in 53 BC operated primarily as a combined arms team of cataphracts and horse archers against the Roman heavy infantry. The cataphract charge was very effective due to the disciplined riders and the large numbers of horses deployed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataphract What round for a combined arms force of heavy cavalry and horse archers. Wearing scale mail and with 4 meter long lances? You realize that a modern day pickup truck or car would be armored against almost anything the Romans had. A hoodie could just plow through the Roman ranks with the window half rolled down shooting at them and they would have a hell of a time stopping it. It would break up their formations pretty quick. Depends on the vehicle. You seen what kind of damage a deer can do if you hit one doing 50mph. Deer usually weigh around 200 to 300 pounds. Cataphracts was armored heavy horse cavalry on Medium weight horses which weighed approximately 1,000 to 1,200 pounds standing 58 to 64 inches tall. Most vehicles won't do well after a collision with a mininum of 1200 pounds object. My guess is that most cars and trucks would be undrivable after that collision. The drivers of any vehicle would likely get an up close and personal view of how a blood eagle would be performed. Not to mention the 4 meter (12 foot) lance coming through the windshield. Car vs. horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrCHLqit2K8 Tube frame rally-chassis thats meant to take hits and protect the engine so it can keep going. Regular truck: 
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:35:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, that was really funny. "What do you mean I can't have slaves? Women are people too and not possessions? Fuck this, I'm out" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think this would be my reaction if I was an average Roman legionary stepping through that portal and seeing the modern world: http://s.mlkshk.com/r/FNFN "What do you mean I can't have slaves? Women are people too and not possessions? Fuck this, I'm out" "Whoa, what do you mean there are no public brothels here for me to spend my coin in? They are illegal? Oh, there's more...sorry to jump the gun...you mean to tell me there is actually a city far from here where buttfucking in public is not only cool, but they hold triumphs in the street in your honor for buttfucking? And the only city WITH public brothels is on the way? How many days march is this place from this shithole???" |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:54:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tube frame rally-chassis thats meant to take hits and protect the engine so it can keep going. Regular truck: http://wgnsradio.com/files/image/News/horse_VS_Truck.png Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You realize that a modern day pickup truck or car would be armored against almost anything the Romans had. A hoodie could just plow through the Roman ranks with the window half rolled down shooting at them and they would have a hell of a time stopping it. It would break up their formations pretty quick. Depends on the vehicle. You seen what kind of damage a deer can do if you hit one doing 50mph. Deer usually weigh around 200 to 300 pounds. Cataphracts was armored heavy horse cavalry on Medium weight horses which weighed approximately 1,000 to 1,200 pounds standing 58 to 64 inches tall. Most vehicles won't do well after a collision with a mininum of 1200 pounds object. My guess is that most cars and trucks would be undrivable after that collision. The drivers of any vehicle would likely get an up close and personal view of how a blood eagle would be performed. Not to mention the 4 meter (12 foot) lance coming through the windshield. Car vs. horse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrCHLqit2K8 Tube frame rally-chassis thats meant to take hits and protect the engine so it can keep going. Regular truck: http://wgnsradio.com/files/image/News/horse_VS_Truck.png Single sedan (going slow) vs. multiple people on bikes: |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 6:59:42 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They'd encircle the town. Drive the protesters into a kill zone. Those left alive would be crucified on telephone, power or light poles. Mind you, once those with firearms start using them, they could panic the legionnaires. I doubt it. They were used to chopping people close-up & getting chopped & stuck. Guns might be a bit baffling, but I doubt they'd panic. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 7:04:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thread needs more waffen ss. This. Replace the Roman Legion idea with them to deal with the protesters. |
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